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OfflineAlphaStar
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Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) * 1
    #26889552 - 08/20/20 06:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

In short, hydrogen cigar shaped thing with out a coma (tail)

Any thoughts?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.livescience.com/amp/oumuamua-interstellar-hydrogen-or-aliens.html


Logical mentioned as thought it would be of interest to him.


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Offlinethe strander
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: AlphaStar] * 2
    #26889731 - 08/20/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I think that jumping to the alien technology conclusion just because we don't have any other working explanations that haven't been disproven in a stretch. There's still too much about the universe that we don't know, and I think some natural non-alien force is the more likely cause of its behavior.


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: AlphaStar] * 1
    #26889792 - 08/20/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the Shout-Out!

Yes I have heard of 'Oumuamua. I believe it is an Alien Probe with a meteorite shell. Check out this unusual trajectory that went right next to Earth.



Even a Harvard Scientist believes it could be an Alien craft of some sort: Harvard Scientist's Take on 'Oumuamua

Quote:

There was an anomaly seen in the data. And it cannot be explained by the most conventional explanation, which in this case is a cometary outgassing. And so we propose an alternative interpretation which is the only one I can think of. Narrator: But it seems extreme to assume aliens just because Oumuamua doesn't look like a comet, right? Not when the Harvard scientists accounted for another peculiarity. As Oumuamua traveled through our solar system, it didn't follow the normal path of a typical comet under the sun's gravity. Rather, it slightly shifted off course, which couldn't be explained by gravity alone. Something else, some unknown force was also at play, manipulating the object's behavior.




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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26889810 - 08/20/20 10:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

angular momentum would seem plausible for that shape if its a spinnin.

couldnt that change the path?


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: cannabinated]
    #26889849 - 08/20/20 10:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Perhaps, but heres the strange part, according to a scientific paper, 'Omumaumua was accelerating at one point without the aid of gravity: https://strangesounds.org/2020/08/interstellar-visitor-oumuamua-could-still-be-alien-technology.html

Quote:

Now, in a new paper published on August 17, 2020, in The Astrophysical Journal Letters, Loeb and Thiem Hoang, an astrophysicist at the Korea Astronomy and Space Science Institute, argue that the hydrogen hypothesis couldn’t work in the real world — which would mean that there is still hope that our neck of space was once visited by advanced aliens — and that we actually spotted their presence at the time.




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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: LogicaL Chaos] * 1
    #26889878 - 08/20/20 10:53 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah the acceleration is what gets me. And hydrogen gas is VERY unlikely as during the journey from its origin to here the hydrogen would have been turned to gas already via starlight.


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #26889941 - 08/20/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yup. Also, there wasnt enough ice particles on the meteorite to propel it, as seen by the lack of a comet "tail" seen by ground-based telescopes.


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Invisiblecannabinated
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #26890014 - 08/20/20 12:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

dark matter accelerator yo


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OnlineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: cannabinated]
    #26890019 - 08/20/20 12:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

That Artifical gravity :greyalien:


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OfflineCracked Egg
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #27196817 - 02/10/21 06:14 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I guess our voyager isn't fast enough currently, but they are planning a fly by around 2049ish.. seems kinda gay to me. 28ish years from now?

Wack, bro. I want to know now! Aren't we like, intelligent?


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People Say I'll Regret That In the Morning, So I Sleep Till Noon..


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: cannabinated] * 1
    #27197008 - 02/10/21 09:08 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

The guy Avi Loeb says it's not at all like a meteorite, he says its flat and disc shaped, not cigar shaped . You have to listen to more of his podcasts, he clarifies a lot of misconception about it. It's extremely reflective flat, and disc shaped, and not anything at all anything like a meteorite or comet and he thinks it is being propelled by the reflecting light reflecting off its unusually reflective smooth surface

I even emailed the guy Avi Loeb and asked him question about it and he respond to my email in 10 minutes. I got his email address, we homies


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OfflineCracked Egg
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197113 - 02/10/21 10:31 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Post the email, my alien dawg!


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People Say I'll Regret That In the Morning, So I Sleep Till Noon..


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Cracked Egg]
    #27197148 - 02/10/21 11:00 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I think if we don't know what it was, we should admit; "we don't know what it was".

It's important to investigate, get data and evidence before we start shouting baseless assertions.


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OfflineCracked Egg
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu] * 1
    #27197192 - 02/10/21 11:30 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Logically speaking, yes. Imanginetive speaking, ALIENS!


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People Say I'll Regret That In the Morning, So I Sleep Till Noon..


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Cracked Egg]
    #27197219 - 02/10/21 11:41 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

His argument is that nobody has a good answer or idea to explain the smooth reflective atypical traits of the object. It has to be able to escape gravitational pull from whatever star system it originated from, that's an insane thing to do, according to astronomers. And to reflective enough that sunlight can push it around 1000 kilometers per second. We ain't neva seen nuthin like this in our history as astronomers

He never said that ITS ALIENS. He said it COULD BE. never told anyone to believe in aliens, hes just the one guy who's like, "hey maybe" and now hes famous because of it. Plus he and I homies.


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Edited by trees (02/10/21 11:50 AM)


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197253 - 02/10/21 11:56 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Right, but nobody having a good answer or idea to explain it doesn't mean "aliens" suddenly becomes a good answer.

You need positive evidence that it was aliens. We have something that looked kinda like a rock, acted like a rock 99% of the time, and then when it flew close to the sun, it changed trajectory a little.  There are a lot of possible explanations for the way it acted, and it's disingenuous to assume it was aliens just because we'd all love real proof of aliens.


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27197276 - 02/10/21 12:07 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Fwiw there are a lot of very reflective substances in the universe. Not the least of which is ice... Very common and very reflective.


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27197291 - 02/10/21 12:13 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

You're way off man I know you haven't listened to any of it. You're missing the point entirely.

Avi isnt some alien conspiracy theorist wannabe. Hes a thinker who enjoys writing, hes written fuckin fictional scifi books. Hes offering up an idea to us that is thought provoking. What's funny and making this object a bigger deal than it is, is the phenomenon of people getting pissed, like you


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27197305 - 02/10/21 12:19 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Svetaketu said:
Fwiw Not the least of which is ice... Very common and very reflective.




You screwed up here big time buddy. If you had listened and read (which you didnt) you'd be fully aware of the comet tail that comes with ice, and you would have withheld that comment on the ice.

He spends like 30 minutes in each podcast explaining the characteristic signatures of comets, ice, and meteors of various material, all fact checkable


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197371 - 02/10/21 01:01 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I said ice was an example of something common and reflective, I didn't say oumuamua was made of ice. My point is a reflective rock isn't very abnormal.

People get upset because there are real scientists doing real investigating on what this object was and why it acted how it acted.

But the populous seems determined to turn it into another alien conspiracy theory :shrug:

I have no problem with people asking was it aliens? That's a real question that should be investigated. My problem is people saying we don't have an explanation, therefore aliens becomes the best explanation; that is a faulty leap in logic.


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LAGM2020
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Offlinekoods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: cannabinated]
    #27197381 - 02/10/21 01:06 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cannabinated said:
angular momentum would seem plausible for that shape if its a spinnin.

couldnt that change the path?




No.

There’s nothing unusual about its path. All objects close to the sun curve like that. The earth’s path is permanently curved. Gravity.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197384 - 02/10/21 01:11 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

There’s also nothing unusual about an object that comes from outside to solar system leaving the solar system. In fact, unless an object hits something inside the solar system, it will by necessity leave the solar system. It has too much kinetic energy to stay.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197400 - 02/10/21 01:29 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Well you should email the guy and tell him you have an explanation.

Hes a cool guy and will answer to non physicists such as ourselves.

Unless you're a real physicist and know all the latest understandings of space materials, you should definitely email the guy and absolutley crush him bro, you got this.


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197408 - 02/10/21 01:40 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

You flexing your superior knowledge of space materials and gravitational pulls.

you should go do the leg work and then report back to us so we can pay your our respects.

Right now you're the armchair shroomerite VS. a life long tenured physicist of multiple universities and focusing on multiple studies of physics who has access to an insane level of observational technology


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197409 - 02/10/21 01:40 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

:rolleyes:

I'm not trying to crush anyone. I'm trying to point out the use of faulty logic; it's my opinion that our inability to reason properly as a species is what is eating away at our society and disabling our mental faculties.

I don't know who Avi Loab is, never heard of him never read a word he has written; but I'm not talking to him, I'm talking to you. I'm not talking about his points, I'm talking about the ones that have been brought up in this thread.

Try to pay attention, I didn't say I have an explanation. I said that no explanation doesn't = it's aliens.

Even if it was a shiny doughnut rock that looked pink and shiny, and we have no explanation for where it came from or how it formed; that doesn't mean you can assume it's aliens.


--------------------
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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27197410 - 02/10/21 01:41 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

You should email him and offer your opinion of his faulty logic and report back to us


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197418 - 02/10/21 01:44 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trees said:
Well you should email the guy and tell him you have an explanation.

Hes a cool guy and will answer to non physicists such as ourselves.

Unless you're a real physicist and know all the latest understandings of space materials, you should definitely email the guy and absolutley crush him bro, you got this.



I’m saying 100% that angular momentum cannot change the path of an object. Angular momentum is an internal force in a closed system.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197424 - 02/10/21 01:47 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Well fuckin go get famous with your silver bullet then. You have  a huge opportunity at your fingers, a simple drug forum guy crushes physicist Avi Loeb with one sentence.

I remember you saying you wanted to talk on radio like on NPR and here's your chance, since Avi has been on NPR


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197429 - 02/10/21 01:52 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

It has to be able to escape gravitational pull from whatever star system it originated from, that's an insane thing to do, according to astronomers.



Not at all. Objects, especially small ones can be flung from solar systems easily by gravitationally transferring momentum from other objects.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197433 - 02/10/21 01:53 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trees said:
Well fuckin go get famous with your silver bullet then. You have  a huge opportunity at your fingers, a simple drug forum guy crushes physicist Avi Loeb with one sentence.

I remember you saying you wanted to talk on radio like on NPR and here's your chance, since Avi has been on NPR




I wanted to talk on NPR? What the fuck are you talking about?


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197439 - 02/10/21 01:55 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I spoke to him specifically about his in email. You'd better email him. Koods. Not me, I am not a scientist. Netheir are you I know this for fact. I'm the last person you should care about convincing of your superior knowledge. Email Avi Loeb and post your argument with him here and I'll be grateful


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197443 - 02/10/21 01:55 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)



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NotSheekle said
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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197444 - 02/10/21 01:56 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I wanted to talk on NPR? What the fuck are you talking about?




Lol I remember you said you wanted to speak on the moth radio hour or something, that's on NPR


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197448 - 02/10/21 01:57 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trees said:
I spoke to him specifically about his in email. You'd better email him. Koods. Not me, I am not a scientist. Netheir are you I know this for fact. I'm the last person you should care about convincing of your superior knowledge. Email Avi Loeb and post your argument with him here and I'll be grateful




I’m not trying to convince you of anything. I already know I have superior knowledge. Congrats on having someone with a college degree answer your email. I’m sure it’s a first.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197452 - 02/10/21 01:58 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Again, I don't know what Avi Loebs points are. Maybe their totally logical. I'm talking about the points raised in this thread.

Specifically that lack of an explanation =/= the conclusion you want to be true most.

That's my only point, which I've been reiterating to death  :beatadeadhorse:

Not sure why this is so difficult :zombie:
I haven't said anything negative about Loeb.

What's his email?


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197453 - 02/10/21 01:58 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Lol Koods has superior knowledge. You've been wrong about every single thing you ever predicted on this site.

Every. Single. Prediction. You ever made was wrong. Way off


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197454 - 02/10/21 01:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trees said:
Quote:

koods said:
I wanted to talk on NPR? What the fuck are you talking about?




Lol I remember you said you wanted to speak on the moth radio hour or something, that's on NPR




About alien space rocks?

You’re very defensive about your email buddy


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197456 - 02/10/21 02:00 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trees said:
Lol Koods has superior knowledge. You've been wrong about every single thing you ever predicted on this site.

Every. Single. Prediction. You ever made was wrong. Way off




Not quite


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NotSheekle said
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197458 - 02/10/21 02:01 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I wanna see a Koods vs Avi Loeb email string, that's all I care about. That's the latest entertainment I'd love to see


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197462 - 02/10/21 02:02 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Tell us more about your email with Avi Loeb. Sounds impressive. 😂

Seriously how many time are you gonna name drop this guy to give yourself credibility. For all we know he called you an idiot.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (02/10/21 02:04 PM)


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197496 - 02/10/21 02:17 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

700 trillion rogue objects (not gravitationally bound to a star) per cubic parsec



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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (02/10/21 02:19 PM)


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197499 - 02/10/21 02:19 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Tell me more about your superior knowledge. What youtube university do you go to? You probably have  a Physics for dummies book that you never opened


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197504 - 02/10/21 02:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

K, I read a few articles and now I do have some negative things to say about Loeb.

He has no argument. He made a baseless assertion and is riding on the fact that people desperately want there to be proof of aliens.

Quote:

The paper has been a smash hit with journalists but has fallen flat with most of Loeb’s astrobiology-focused peers, who insist that, while strange, ‘Oumuamua’s properties still place it well within the realm of natural phenomena. To claim otherwise, Loeb’s critics say, is cavalier at best and destructive at worst for the long struggle to remove the stigma of credulous UFO and alien-abduction reports from what should unquestionably be a legitimate field of scientific inquiry.




I take it that it doesn't concern you at all what the rest of the astrobiologists think, just Loeb's opinion matters?

In case it wasn't clear, he's making bank off this charade;

Quote:

I’m good, but I have been losing sleep, because in order to cope with all the media requests, I’ve been doing interviews with, for example, Good Morning Britain at 1:50 A.M. and Coast to Coast AM at 3 A.M.—plus appearances on U.S. network and cable television. I’ve got about 100 podcast interviews to do in the next few weeks. And I already recorded long conversations with [podcasters] Lex Fridman and Joe Rogan for their shows. I’ve never seen anything like this; there has been so much interest in the book. I mean, there were 10 filmmakers and producers from Hollywood who contacted me over the past few weeks! I joked with my literary agent that if a film comes out of this, I want to be played by Brad Pitt.





He's turning what should be a real scientific question into a cash cow complete with a movie deal, this is going to spawn decades of conspiracy theories :facepalm3:


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27197513 - 02/10/21 02:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I'm down for more alien movies


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees] * 1
    #27197519 - 02/10/21 02:26 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I took my physics courses at McGill Univiesity ranked #40 in the world for physics - in the building where Earnest Rutherford did the work that won him the Nobel prize. But you emailed a guy, so good for you.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197541 - 02/10/21 02:34 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trees said:
I'm down for more alien movies




:rofldrunk: Yeah me too.


But fuck Avi Loeb. Look at the consensus, not what 1 scientist who is being motivated by fame and money thinks.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197629 - 02/10/21 03:35 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I took my physics courses at McGill Univiesity ranked #40 in the world for physics - in the building where Earnest Rutherford did the work that won him the Nobel prize. But you emailed a guy, so good for you.




It's not that I believe its alien. I'm skeptical of that. Rather I listened to the guys story and I liked it very much. Hes had a pretty interesting life. He was born in Israel, grew up a farm kid, served military, was appointed to study physics, moved about under different disciplines, earned tenure somewhere I dont remember, worked on telescope projects with watever biggest astronomy department of the USA. Hes been a professor, a writer, a father, currently contributes to some technological work professionally. Where as this omuamua thing is entirely a side project. Listening to him speak he sounds genuinely happy  and going with his life, he knows that people trying to bring down his ideas doesnt matter or hurt his career.

Ill listen to his idea and think about it even if I'm skeptical

You Koods I've read everything you post over the years seen all the pics, sorry but you're not that interesting, or credible


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: the strander]
    #27197644 - 02/10/21 03:41 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

the strander said:
I think that jumping to the alien technology conclusion just because we don't have any other working explanations that haven't been disproven in a stretch. There's still too much about the universe that we don't know, and I think some natural non-alien force is the more likely cause of its behavior.



yeah but :ancientaliens:


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197648 - 02/10/21 03:42 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

These are the two things I posted, upon which you decided to attack me.

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

cannabinated said:
angular momentum would seem plausible for that shape if its a spinnin.

couldnt that change the path?




No.

There’s nothing unusual about its path. All objects close to the sun curve like that. The earth’s path is permanently curved. Gravity.



Quote:

koods said:
There’s also nothing unusual about an object that comes from outside to solar system leaving the solar system. In fact, unless an object hits something inside the solar system, it will by necessity leave the solar system. It has too much kinetic energy to stay.




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Edited by koods (02/10/21 03:43 PM)


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: cannabinated]
    #27197723 - 02/10/21 04:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

cannabinated said:
angular momentum would seem plausible for that shape if its a spinnin.

couldnt that change the path?




A spinning object could be deflected as it travelled through solar winds through the magnus effect 🤷‍♂️

A spinning object could change direction if it was losing mass, like if a piece broke off. If say it broke into two pieces, the parts would have a change in direction but the sum of the vectors of the two piece would remain the same as the vector of the single object because momentum is always conserved.


Edited by koods (02/10/21 04:32 PM)


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197796 - 02/10/21 05:01 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Why dont you email the guy and tell him that so he shuts up and you win and get all the praise you crave


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197804 - 02/10/21 05:08 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

What the fuck is your problem? I havent said a fucking thing about your penpal, except to point out your creepy obsession with him.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197809 - 02/10/21 05:11 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I was going to say something funny but then it made me think..

Ya’ll ever see the video of the guy who says he can summon ufos, and the news caught wind of it?  They went out with him like ok dude and no shit a silver thing showed up on the horizon.  I thought that was funny.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27197831 - 02/10/21 05:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
What the fuck is your problem? I havent said a fucking thing about your penpal, except to point out your creepy obsession with him.




Lol what is your problem. You're like foaming at the mouth about this, swearing and cussing


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27197898 - 02/10/21 06:01 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Freak


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Amanita86]
    #27198012 - 02/10/21 07:05 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Amanita86 said:
I was going to say something funny but then it made me think..

Ya’ll ever see the video of the guy who says he can summon ufos, and the news caught wind of it?  They went out with him like ok dude and no shit a silver thing showed up on the horizon.  I thought that was funny.




Link?


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27198154 - 02/10/21 08:32 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trees said:
Quote:

koods said:
What the fuck is your problem? I havent said a fucking thing about your penpal, except to point out your creepy obsession with him.




Lol what is your problem. You're like foaming at the mouth about this, swearing and cussing



He's gotten properly pissed off on account of the way that numbers work a couple of times.  I'm pretty sure he called bullshit on something I copied and pasted from Wolfram on one of those occasions.


Edited by chibiabos (02/10/21 08:56 PM)


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27198156 - 02/10/21 08:33 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

cannabinated said:
angular momentum would seem plausible for that shape if its a spinnin.

couldnt that change the path?




A spinning object could be deflected as it travelled through solar winds through the magnus effect 🤷‍♂️

A spinning object could change direction if it was losing mass, like if a piece broke off. If say it broke into two pieces, the parts would have a change in direction but the sum of the vectors of the two piece would remain the same as the vector of the single object because momentum is always conserved.



Also if it's not actually rigid and the center of mass somehow changes.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
    #27198161 - 02/10/21 08:36 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

That’s not going to change its direction.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27198187 - 02/10/21 08:56 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
That’s not going to change its direction.



https://groups.csail.mit.edu/mac/users/wisdom/swimming.pdf


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
    #27198198 - 02/10/21 09:05 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Lol we’re talking about Newtonian physics. General relativity is irrelevant to something 300 meters long.

You also need an energy source to transform a body’s shape in the way described.

Quote:

The curvature of spacetime is very slight, so the ability to swim in spacetime is unlikely to lead to new propulsion devices. For a meter-sized object performing meter-sized deformations at the surface of the Earth, the displacement is of order 10-23 m (17).




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Edited by koods (02/10/21 09:19 PM)


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27198236 - 02/10/21 09:31 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

General relativity applies at any scale.  Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
    #27198383 - 02/10/21 11:21 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Ive seen several stories talking about Physicist's Avi Loeb's ET Comet theory. Here's one of them: https://www.foxnews.com/science/physisist-explains-why-mysterious-interstellar-oumuamua-could-be-alien-spacecraft

Pretty interesting stuff! :strokebeard:


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
    #27198392 - 02/10/21 11:27 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

chibiabos said:
General relativity applies at any scale.  Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.




I said it was irrelevant


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27198884 - 02/11/21 09:04 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

chibiabos said:
General relativity applies at any scale.  Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.




I said it was irrelevant



A solid fucking mathematical proof if there ever was one.  Herni Poincare would be proud.  :cookiemonster:


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #27199011 - 02/11/21 10:14 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I'm with it until right here;

Quote:

Loeb told the website there was another object discovered that exhibited an excess push called 2020-SO, which he said ended up being a rocket booster from a failed mission of lunar lander, Surveyor II that was launched in 1966. He said because that object was artificially made and had no cometary trail, it "provides evidence" that we can tell the difference between a rock and an object -- like the rocket booster -- that is pushed by sunlight.




This is junk logic. The fact that it "exhibited an excess push" isn't evidence that it was space trash. There are many possible explanations for the way it acted, and if he wants to assert it's artificial, be needs actual evidence for that claim.

How did they determine 2020-SO was artificial for example?;

Quote:

Spectroscopic observations by NASA's Infrared Telescope Facility in December 2020 found that the object's spectrum is similar to that of stainless steel, confirming the object's artificial nature.




The fact that it had no tail and exhibited an "excess push" really didn't factor into proving whether it was artificial at all.

It's also pretty comedic to assert that we can tell the difference between rocks and space trash based on 1 piece of space trash :rofl:


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27199041 - 02/11/21 10:33 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

We are the wrong people to preach your astrophysics knowledge to.

We are mere internet apes.

Use your superior knowledge of space materials to enter the arena with Avi Loeb and the other scientists. You are clearly needed by these people, because you have the secret knowledge to crush this Omouamua. Why wouldn't you want the truth to get out there?, since you are concerned with humanities issue with fake aliens. You want the world to be a better place.

Clearly you are the chosen one, now go get famous, you'll get on Joe Rogan, you'll get on Lex Fridmans podcast, at least 2 million will hear your voice.

So why dont you go do it?

You're so sure of yourself, you have a massive opportunity to get rich and famous and loved, all the things you could never achieve here on the shroomery


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27199226 - 02/11/21 11:51 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Avi Loeb doesn't need me to argue with him; I'm sure he has 100s of astrophysicist friends who have explained my perspective ad infinitum.

The truth is out there, for anyone who is actually looking. The majority of professionals in the field clearly disagree with Loeb; none of them are going to be invited to be on Joe Rogan. Why?

Because the media doesn't care about facts or science, they care about what sells. Alien conspiracy theories are a big seller. 

No, I think my time is better spend talking to the average Joe. If I can convince enough of them to apply logic to baseless claims, maybe the market for this sensationalism will die.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27199455 - 02/11/21 02:10 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

No it will never die. Does it even need to die? Can you explain exactly how its causing irreparable damage to humanity?

I'm interested in what loss you think we as humans have sustained as a result of alien stories and if you can actually measure that loss

Alien stories are only going up from here on out. Deal with it


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos] * 1
    #27199471 - 02/11/21 02:17 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

chibiabos said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

chibiabos said:
General relativity applies at any scale.  Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.




I said it was irrelevant



A solid fucking mathematical proof if there ever was one.  Herni Poincare would be proud.  :cookiemonster:




23 zeros after the decimal point is irrelevant. And that is at the surface of the earth, where there is a significant warping of spacetime due to being so close to a massive body. Spacetime isn’t nearly as warped when youre millions of miles from the nearest large gravitational well.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27199528 - 02/11/21 02:56 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

chibiabos said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

chibiabos said:
General relativity applies at any scale.  Manifolds just do as manifolds do, being that they have the properties of a manifold.




I said it was irrelevant



A solid fucking mathematical proof if there ever was one.  Herni Poincare would be proud.  :cookiemonster:




23 zeros after the decimal point is irrelevant. And that is at the surface of the earth, where there is a significant warping of spacetime due to being so close to a massive body. Spacetime isn’t nearly as warped when youre millions of miles from the nearest large gravitational well.



There isn't some magical scale whereby which general relativity suddenly becomes relevant.  It's just the theory that you end up with if you don't assume that everything takes place in a Euclidean 3-space.  You just manage to get away with being able to do that if you look at a small enough scale on account of the fact that you define the motions of bodies as curves that are embedded in a 3-manifold.

I might be fucking up terminology, but by 3-manifold I mean a sapcetime that, locally (i.e. within the neighborhood of some point therein) looks like a Euclidean 3-space.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
    #27199537 - 02/11/21 02:59 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Newtonian physics is all you need to consider for almost all orbital dynamics


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
    #27199543 - 02/11/21 03:01 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Even if you only get a few pages into the Principia it makes sense.  Newton literally told people that he was constraining his study to that sort of geometry, which isn't really a bad thing on his part.  It's just that it developed for a specific kind of mathematical object with a specific sort of geometry that was really all that people at the time had managed to figure out and that several hundred years later people figured out a more general kind of geometry that could be applied to a more general sort of mathematical object.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27199546 - 02/11/21 03:03 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Newtonian physics is all you need to consider for almost all orbital dynamics



:whateveryousayfreak:

Alternatively, you actually just aren't as good at physics as you want people to think that you are, mostly on account of the fact that you're to lazy to actually study.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
    #27199583 - 02/11/21 03:20 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

I’m right. Even the paper you posted said their concept has no practical applications.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27199594 - 02/11/21 03:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I’m right. Even the paper you posted said their concept has no practical applications.



Practical applications are an abomination to pure mathematics.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
    #27199596 - 02/11/21 03:24 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Ok


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27199601 - 02/11/21 03:27 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

trees said:
No it will never die. Does it even need to die? Can you explain exactly how its causing irreparable damage to humanity?

I'm interested in what loss you think we as humans have sustained as a result of alien stories and if you can actually measure that loss

Alien stories are only going up from here on out. Deal with it




Sure.

I said I'd like the market for sensationalism to die; not alien stories.

Sensationalism - (especially in journalism) the use of exciting or shocking stories or language at the expense of accuracy, in order to provoke public interest or excitement.

I think sensationalism has a huge part to play in keeping us distracted, sedated, and bickering with each other rather than solving the actual problems that are ailing us.

My problem isn't with alien stories. Science fiction is great! the original "Alien" and John carpenter's "The Thing" are two of my all time favorite movies.

My problem is faulty logic. Faulty logic leads people to hurt each other and themselves, to vote against their own interest, to get swindled by conmen.

I agree, aliens are not the biggest issue. But your logic bleeds through into all aspects of your life. I've heard this same garbage argument used to justify belief in;


Zeus - I don't know where lightning comes from, it must be Zeus.

Ghosts - I can't explain this experience, so it must have been ghosts.

Oumuamua - I don't know what this object was or why it acted how it acted, it must have been aliens.

And many more.

They all rely on using a lack of evidence (for or against the proposition) to bolster their claim, which also has no evidence.

This is ass backwards, and leads people to incorrect conclusions. You cannot use a lack of evidence to support the conclusion you like the best.


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Offlinechibiabos
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27199605 - 02/11/21 03:29 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

That's more of a philosophy of science issue than an astrophysics issue though.  In the end, I think that people just really want to meet some aliens.


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: chibiabos]
    #27199725 - 02/11/21 04:33 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Not quite sure what you mean, I wasn't talking about an issue with astrophysics, just flaws in basic logic.

But agreed.

I want to meet aliens too! And I think there are real avenues that could lead us there.


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27199811 - 02/11/21 05:27 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Your logic is flawed. Zeus and ghosts never held us back from anything for more than a microsecond in the 24 hr clock. Never harmed a fly in history.

I challenged you to measure the catastrophic effect of alien stories on humanity so I can realize the detrimental effect.

Now if those beliefs of ghosts or Zeus or Aliens led to mass genocide and suppression of human beings growth and prosperity that'd be something to consider.

Where or what in technology and science is being suppressed by something like Avi Loebs side hobby project?  You'll be able to identify: NOTHING, especially since the object is gone forever now. We just really hope that another one like it comes.

I've yet to see a problem with offering up the idea of aliens. Nobody ever died because of alien stories. Nobody lost money, or their family because of all the alien stories. No. Money was MADE, friends were made, jobs were made, families were made, movies, joy, economy.

I can say that IN FUCKING FACT Avi Loebs story has had a positive stimulating effect on the economy. But you think there's detriment to humanity as a result, but I dont see that, I think that detriment is fake and all in your head

I can name too many things that are going on right now and being perpetuated and pushed on us that are and always will be 100,000,000 times worse for humanity than aliens stories, or Avi Loebs idea.


Edited by trees (02/11/21 05:34 PM)


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27199835 - 02/11/21 05:35 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

It was pretty catastrophic for the heavens gaters



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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: koods]
    #27199840 - 02/11/21 05:37 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Cults are easily identified and a seperate issue from alien stories.

We have cults based on every single belief you could think of so: irrelevant koods.


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Invisible1234go
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27199850 - 02/11/21 05:40 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Maybe I just haven't been paying attention enough, but I can't say I've ever seen you post so many words before, trees.  It's refreshing.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Cracked Egg] * 1
    #27199981 - 02/11/21 06:31 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

Cracked Egg said:
Quote:

Amanita86 said:
I was going to say something funny but then it made me think..

Ya’ll ever see the video of the guy who says he can summon ufos, and the news caught wind of it?  They went out with him like ok dude and no shit a silver thing showed up on the horizon.  I thought that was funny.




Link?





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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27200644 - 02/11/21 11:15 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

You don't seem to be grasping my response.

I never said Zeus or ghosts held us back. I used them to show examples of flawed logic.

I repeated multiple times, I have no problem with alien stories. I'm just pointing out flawed logic.

If you don't value logic, we really have nothing else to talk about :shrug:


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Invisibletrees
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: Svetaketu]
    #27201625 - 02/12/21 01:04 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

It would be logical and safe to bet that if Avi, a Harvard head of astronomy is using flawed logic, flawed laws of physics when talking about omuamua movement, that it has an extra push, why it's such and such different from typical objects.... You'd assume that by now he would have been smeared all over the floor by all the other scientists. Hasn't happened. This guy isnt threatening anyone so why wouldn't anyone say something, some have tried.

Someone credible would have stepped up a long time ago and outlined in detail for us how Avi is an idiot fraud with zero grasp on physics, even though hes been a tenured physics professor in multiple countries and universities.

Now here we have some drug forum armchair bros saying they're are better physicists than a tenured physics and astronomy director of many decades, on top of that, these shroom heads think they're better than all of the scientists around Avi who have yet to come up with a good argument. That's fucking HILARIOUS!!

I dont buy your "I understand things and physics and logic very well" logic, you're packed to the brim full of shit delusional, like Koods is


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27201760 - 02/12/21 02:02 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Here's another logical point I cant help but to add

Frauds are at bigger risk than ever before nowadays. It is becoming so easy to detect frauds because of today's internet conditions, they're being torn down on daily basis. And there's big money and incentive in destroying frauds, it's hot.

Avi, would have succumbed to the hot fraud detection age long ago. There are plenty of scientists in the world who would benefit from disproving Avi's theory. It would have been properly disproved by now, according to your explanations, it's been years without any of that.

Yours and koodss' assertion of his flawed use of physics would have been screamed by scientists many times over again until Avi's theory was dead, a long time ago, which logically speaking, that indicates to me that your physics knowledge and assertions are flawed, false, because we would have heard about it before you said it yourself, and the fact that you push it so hard without any evidence or backing or willingness to step up the plate, kinda means that YOU are looking like the true frauds within this thread.


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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27201803 - 02/12/21 02:23 PM (2 years, 11 months ago)

Again, I not once addressed anything Avi (we’re on a first name basis I see) said.


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Oumuamua (Logical Chaos) [Re: trees]
    #27203302 - 02/13/21 09:30 AM (2 years, 11 months ago)

How is it possible that I've repeated the same SINGLE point through like 8 posts, and somehow you've missed it completely :confused:

I'm not saying he's a bad scientist. I'm saying his logic on this single claim is mistaken; I don't have to know more about physics or space than he does, I can look at the structure of his argument and see that it contains a logical fallacy.

Regardless, your point falls on it's face. You forgot about this earlier in the thread;

Quote:

The paper has been a smash hit with journalists but has fallen flat with MOST of Loeb’s astrobiology-focused peers, who insist that, while strange, ‘Oumuamua’s properties still place it well within the realm of natural phenomena. To claim otherwise, Loeb’s critics say, is cavalier at best and destructive at worst for the long struggle to remove the stigma of credulous UFO and alien-abduction reports from what should unquestionably be a legitimate field of scientific inquiry.




We've been over this shit already. The majority of scientist DO think his argument is fallacious.

But a scientist saying "it wasn't aliens" doesn't get media attention. A scientist claiming that it was aliens gets A LOT of media attention, as we've clearly seen.

Look, I've only made one point. That point, is that a lack of evidence cannot lead you to a conclusion. If you disagree with that, lay out your argument. Give me an example of when this would be justified. Do some research, this is a variation on an argument from ignorance.

But I'm done arguing with the random shit you pull out your ass. You're shifting the conversation and grasping at random shit that has nothing to do with my point.


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Edited by Svetaketu (02/13/21 09:31 AM)


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