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Offlineoachidwick
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Casing layor not colonising
    #26882593 - 08/16/20 12:50 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

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I've practiced coir Tek without using hydrated like and had no issues in the past.

Now I've had a failed monotub twice from the casing layor not colonising. I think my isssue is that it's too dry and not the correct ph (I think) from changing my coir.

I'm on day 8 of the colonisation and not where near enough sign of covering. Would it be an idea to spray with a hydrated like solution? If so, what kind of mix water:hydrated like should I use?

Cheers


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: oachidwick]
    #26882600 - 08/16/20 12:57 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

How did you prepare? Top layer or casing?
What are you growing, cubes?

A casing usually isn`t for colonization while low in nutrients,
but for spending moisture.

Ah i understand now, you mean hydrated lime, not like :wink:


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InvisibleThomsen
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: Goatrider]
    #26882610 - 08/16/20 01:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It's also always easier to give good advice when there's pictures attached. :grin:


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OfflineWoolyMarmot
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: Thomsen]
    #26882622 - 08/16/20 01:19 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Thomsen said:
It's also always easier to give good advice when there's pictures attached. :grin:



agreed


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: oachidwick]
    #26882652 - 08/16/20 01:47 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Like Goatrider said, the casing layer is not for colonizing necessarily. (Howdy Goatrider!). But mostly for moisture. A grow w/o a casing layer will draw moisture only from the sub. A grow with a casing layer will draw moisture from both the sub AND the casing layer -which is why I use a casing layer, but that is just me. (But I don't use coir).

Coir has a natural ph of 5 to 6.5, which puts it on the acid side of things -but not WAY on the acid side of things. There is a point where a sub can get too 'acidy' for mycelial growth, but a range of 5 - 6.5 ph is not enough to stop shroom growth in it's tracks. Your problem may be  a moisture problem. Pics would help, working blind always makes things more difficult.

The ph of coir whether 5 or 6.5 is not going to stall your grow IME. If anything, if you used coir in your sub along with grains, it would have stalled there if ph was a problem. As shroom mycelium eats it acidifies it's environment. I wouldn't add lime or hydrated lime to anything (I never do). My advice is don't worry about ph for cubes.


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Offlineoachidwick
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: Thomsen]
    #26882664 - 08/16/20 01:59 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yep cubes.
A simple coir Tek. Booking water with coir and verm in a concealed container with enough water that when I squeezed, some water trickled out!


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Offlineoachidwick
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26882668 - 08/16/20 02:01 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks very much, I'll try and get some pictures.
In the 'case' that it is too dry, could I go about spraying the top layer quite intensely, or removing the some top layor casing and putting it to fruit? I'll get some pictures...


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: oachidwick]
    #26882687 - 08/16/20 02:17 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

We should go for right terms first for not confusing.

The top layer is within mixing your tub, and applying a thin
coir layer for moisture from the start.

A casing is applied after full colonization, but not needed for cubes.
For PE for example, you prevent mycelium monster blobs with a casing.

Also a time ago, the whole substrate was called a casing.

So always state clearly how you prepared.

Usually the top layer is also at field capacity.
As myc peeps through, you can control the surface moisture better,
as you can see fine droplets of water now.
Compare here:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23999053

With 8 days, you`re within the time frame, i wouldn`t change anything now.
Just wait a few days more.

Hails back to scarabaeus :rockon:


                      :cookiemonster:


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InvisibleThomsen
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: Goatrider]
    #26882704 - 08/16/20 02:40 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Goatrider said:
For PE for example, you prevent mycelium monster blobs with a casing.





What would you use for casing? peatmoss?


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: oachidwick]
    #26882707 - 08/16/20 02:43 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Removing some of the top layer? Nah, I wouldn't do that. Mushy growing 101 says that you get things right from the get-go and then pretty much leave it alone (except for watching humidity and air/gas exchange as the case may be; and of course moisture content of your sub, but that should have been taken care of in your first steps of prep.).
How does your tub smell? Shroomy? If not your tub stalled because of contams. But if you feel that your tub needs moisture, then what have you got to lose? =Go for it.

If I was at your place in person, I could give a better opinion but... here we are doing this.

I'm going to post my recipe for a non coir non peat based casing not just for you, but for whoever else may read this.

5 cups vermiculite plus 1/4 cup gypsum. This is enough to case a dish tub that is about 11/12 by 14/12 that is inches not centimeters, (I'm guessing on the xact dimensions). I then put that in a larger mono tub kinda thing or an old cooler from the flea market. It's not a better way of doing things, it's just the way I do it.

As for the above casing recipe, the only reason for the inclusion of gypsum is to make it more 'soil like'. I know personally some hobby growers like yourself who don't use gypsum at all -but I like it.

The down side of using veermiculite as a casing is that it is a pain in the arse to clean off your harvest. And it can be a pain.

Casing? No casing? It is a personal preference. You will get people who argue both sides of the coin. Peace bro :headbang:


Edited by scarabaeus (08/16/20 02:50 AM)


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26882708 - 08/16/20 02:47 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Ah! Goatrider beat me to the post as I was typing the ^. He is spot on! Hope I added some useful info. even though I was late.

Goatrider, rockin' the western world from Germany -I love it! :rockon:


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: scarabaeus]
    #26882711 - 08/16/20 02:49 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

scarabaeus said:
Ah! Goatrider beat me to the post as I was typing the ^. He is spot on! Hope I added some useful info. even though I was late.

Goatrider, rockin' the western world from Germany -I love it! :rockon:




:biggrin:

:thumbup: for the gypsum


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Offlineoachidwick
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: Goatrider]
    #26882728 - 08/16/20 03:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It looked ok for moisture, I just checked my records and it's actually 10 days with no GE.

Also a fair bit of water droplets on the monotub lid...



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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: oachidwick]
    #26882734 - 08/16/20 03:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

What do you mean with no GE?


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Offlineoachidwick
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: Goatrider]
    #26882739 - 08/16/20 03:37 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I taped off the holes and tied a black bin bag around it to build up co2.

Cheers for your help but the way, it is really appreciated!


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: oachidwick]
    #26882743 - 08/16/20 03:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

That`s way outdated. Never put it in a bag.

CO2 is a product of fungi metabolism, and higher concentrations
may lead to poor fruits with thin stems and tiny caps.
Small fruits with lower concentrations.

We go straight into fruiting conditions today,
allowing a bit of GE, at pinning stage giving FAE.

So after all, it can lead to issues if you wrap your tubs in a bag for colonizing.


                      :cookiemonster:


--------------------


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Offlineoachidwick
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: Goatrider]
    #26882745 - 08/16/20 03:50 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Ok brill, I've got a fair bit of cobweb mold on the top layer, was thinking of removing the top lay on all and putting into fruiting conditions. Does that sounds advisable?


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InvisibleGoatrider
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: oachidwick]
    #26882747 - 08/16/20 03:56 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

That`s the shit i mean.
You made stall air with wrapping it in a bag,
cobweb loves that.

You may spray some peroxide, but i`m not familiar with that.
It shouldn`t kill mycelium, but harms it in a way.


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Offlinescarabaeus
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Re: Casing layor not colonising [Re: Goatrider]
    #26889246 - 08/19/20 10:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I know I'm coming in here late, but Goatrider makes good points. Also, as far as the cobweb mold goes, h2o2 (hydrogen peroxide)  straight from the brown bottle will melt away cobweb mold almost on contact (spray it, don't pour it). This may not save your tub though. Cobweb mold (Dactylium), is nasty to mushroom mycelium. It's spores quickly infect any fruitbody it comes into contact with, covering the shroom with a thin layer of 'fluff'. What it doesn't out-right kill, even surviving fruits are rotten on the inside.

Even before microbiology classes in school, I became familiar with this pain in the arse years before when I was trying to utilize peanut shells as a substrate -never got it to work (peanuts grow in the ground and are too filthy to begin with).

Knocking down cobweb growth with peroxide may not save your tub, but it may keep down the contaminate spore load of cobweb that is probably now floating around your space.

In general (like Goatrider  :goat:  said ^), stale high co2 levels promote contamination.


Edited by scarabaeus (08/19/20 10:30 PM)


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