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Offlinebumboat
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I want to "cut" mushroom powder
    #26885972 - 08/18/20 04:18 AM (6 months, 5 days ago)

Hi,
Hi had some cubensis that I'm going to grind and put in capsule for microdosing.

For being more precise in microdosing, I'd like to thin the mushroom powder so that a microdose will fit in a 0 capsule (if I put pure powder a 0 capsule would be too big).

What should I use?

goals:
-no risk of capsule content getting roth
-no alteration of mushroom powder effects

I first considered sugar (for the food preservative effect) but I understand that sugar will lower psilocybes effects.

I then thinked about flour... could it be? Is it "neutral" on psilocybes effects?

Another idea, maybe better on the food-preservative effect, could be buying some electrolyte powder (the one you dissolve in water for drinking during sports)or some vitamine powder but I can't find any without added sugar, except for a vitamin effervescent tablet that could be grounded.
Could this kind of substace interfere with psilocybine?

Thanks for help


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Offlinemingot
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: bumboat]
    #26886255 - 08/18/20 10:11 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Why not just not fill the cap up all of the way and only use mushroom?


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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: mingot] * 2
    #26886393 - 08/18/20 12:00 PM (6 months, 4 days ago)

This idea makes absolutely no sense to me whatsoever.

If you're putting ground mushrooms into capsules do that, no cutting agent is necessary so why would you want to add an extra step for no reason whatsoever?

Either get the right sized capsule that holds your desired amount, or just put the orginal desired amount in the caps you have, nothing wrong with half or a quarter of a capsule full of powder.

There is absolutely no reason or benifit in attempting this, mixing the shroom powder with another substance will leave your doses inconsistent unless you can ensure an even mix which would take a substantial amount of time and effort to accomplish, even on a small scale.

Are you sure there isn't another reason you want to cut your shroom powder?


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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: bumboat]
    #26886507 - 08/18/20 12:56 PM (6 months, 4 days ago)

This sounds like madness to me. Just put the amount you want in the capsule. Simple.

The usual reason for "cutting" drugs is just to increase profits on a weight basis. Doesn't make sense if you're doing this for personal use.

:shrug:


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Cheers,
gonzo99 :cool:


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: bumboat]
    #26886785 - 08/18/20 03:33 PM (6 months, 4 days ago)

Quote:

bumboat said:
Hi,
Hi had some cubensis that I'm going to grind and put in capsule for microdosing.

For being more precise in microdosing, I'd like to thin the mushroom powder so that a microdose will fit in a 0 capsule (if I put pure powder a 0 capsule would be too big).

What should I use?

goals:
-no risk of capsule content getting roth
-no alteration of mushroom powder effects

I first considered sugar (for the food preservative effect) but I understand that sugar will lower psilocybes effects.

I then thinked about flour... could it be? Is it "neutral" on psilocybes effects?

Another idea, maybe better on the food-preservative effect, could be buying some electrolyte powder (the one you dissolve in water for drinking during sports)or some vitamine powder but I can't find any without added sugar, except for a vitamin effervescent tablet that could be grounded.
Could this kind of substace interfere with psilocybine?

Thanks for help




Are you actually considering grinding up an effervescent tablet and then putting it in a capsule and swallowing it? Or even worse giving it to someone else to take? This seems like a good way to rupture your stomach or another part of your gastrointestinal tract. :nonono:


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Offlinethe man
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: george castanza]
    #26887542 - 08/19/20 12:28 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

lol it wouldnt rupture anything

could grind other shrooms so nothing light settles. but ya best way is just smaller caps or fill half the caps with something and then half with your shroom powder.  alcohol tincture let evaporate and dose with the syringe. uber consistent and precise dosage..


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Offlinemeowjinx
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: bumboat]
    #26887553 - 08/19/20 12:47 AM (6 months, 4 days ago)

So in the time you took researching which chemicals wouldn't interfere w/ psilocybin and what chemicals were found in what products, you didn't think to look up buying smaller capsules?

I hope you're being genuine. It'd be pretty sad if a cultivator would stoop to cutting shrooms to squeeze out a few extra dollars


Edited by meowjinx (08/19/20 12:48 AM)


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Offlinebumboat
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: meowjinx]
    #26887777 - 08/19/20 07:49 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Why I want to cut:

1)filling caps halfways is not precise: you have to fill it completely and press with a standard force to have a quite precise amount. (I already have 0 size capsule and the machine to fill them, I don't want to spend for different size capsules and machine)

2) if in filling a capsule of 500mg of pure powder you make an error of 50mg, you have an error in  the expected active on ingredient of 10%.
If you are filling the capsule with 500mg of fitted powder to 50%, with an error of 50mg of cutter powder you have an error of 25 mg of active ingredient. So more precise dosing

3)I don't want to give anyone anything. What I have is not enough even for me.
Also for this is useful to cut:
Where you finished to use the machine to fill capsule, some powder remain on the machine (let's say a number 1000mg). If the powder is pure, I loose 1000mg of mushroom. If the powder is cutter to 50%, the active powder lost is 500mg, along with 500mg of cutting powder.

Diluite an active ingredient to have a more precise dosing is something commonly used in pharmacy.


I don't sell, don't give anything to anyone for fear of legal consequences and also because I can't grow regularly (I must work in months when I am alone at home). I also CNC machined a different piece for the filling machine to be able to work with less capsule due to scarcity of mushrooms. I'm planning to prepare for a period of microdosing (I have never tripped and not interested for now) and I just want to be as precise as possible in making my microdoses.

That said:
I just think that cutted powder is more convenient to my needs.

The question remain: do you now anything safe to use to cut?


Edited by bumboat (08/19/20 08:17 AM)


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Offlinebumboat
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: george castanza]
    #26887820 - 08/19/20 08:31 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

the man said:
lol it wouldnt rupture anything




Agreed. When a child with friends at parties we swallow entire tablet for making louder burps (not really working either). Can't think of any effects on a "half capsule" dose.
Still now, sometimes when in hurry I drink my morning vitaminC even if there are pieces of tablet that are not dissolved and still sparkling. No problem whatsoever.

Quote:


could grind other shrooms so nothing light settles. but ya best way is just smaller caps or fill half the caps with something and then half with your shroom powder.  alcohol tincture let evaporate and dose with the syringe. uber consistent and precise dosage..




Can you please elaborate the "alcohol tincture" concept? I don't understant but seems interesting.
Thanks


Edited by bumboat (08/19/20 08:37 AM)


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: bumboat]
    #26887864 - 08/19/20 09:31 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

I have never seen or heard of anyone who cuts their mushroom powder. There is no practical reason to do this and while I can see how you have convinced yourself that what you are claiming sounds reasonable enough, I cannot in good conscious agree that any of it sounds the least bit practical or likely plausible to me. The bases for the need to "cut" your shrooms is that you already have the 0 sized caps, but you are willing to go out and buy cutting agents, but not caps, this just doesn't jibe. Go buy the right sized cap for how much powder you want to dose, easy solution.

Of course if you have mushroom powder it's yours to do with as you like, and I will still respect and appreciate that, however the short answer is still no, I have no knowledge of anyone ever cutting their shroom powder for capsules or what they may have used to do so.

However I can in good conscious offer you a easy viable alternative to ensure your ability to consistently microdose at will;

If I were in your situation I would just find a container that held the amount of powder I wanted to dose and dip one container's worth of powder out of my stash whenever I wanted my dose. Like say if one half cap loosely filled was the target dose, just leave the cap in the stash jar and when you need a dose scoop one out, no fuss, no muss, and as a bonus you are not spending any cash on cut, you still have your capsules for another day and you saved yourself a ton of time and effort by not having to mix the powder and run it through your pill press. Win win win.

:costanza:

My neighbor ruptured his stomach swallowing pop rocks when I was a kid. If you want to swallow fizzy powder that is not done fizzing you have every right to do so, but I will always caution against such foolishness.


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Invisiblegonzo99
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: bumboat]
    #26887903 - 08/19/20 09:56 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

bumboat said:
(I have never tripped and not interested for now) and I just want to be as precise as possible in making my microdoses.




You've never tripped (not interested?) but you want to microdose? Personally I have never understood microdosing, although I understand it's a thing these days. Perhaps you should become familiar with the effects of psylocibin before you ingest microdoses? Compare and contrast?

Regardless, just take the amount you want. Why are you even bothering with capsules? That's a lot of effort to store shrooms. You're even CNC custom making parts for capsule production!!!

Nothing about your story as you've expressed it adds up, IMHO.

[edit]I guess, I'm just trying to understand: WHY?[/edit]


--------------------
Cheers,
gonzo99 :cool:


Edited by gonzo99 (08/19/20 10:01 AM)


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Invisiblegeorge castanzaM
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: gonzo99]
    #26887922 - 08/19/20 10:11 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Agreed, I feel like Bumboat's story has more holes than a pound of swiss sliced thin. Sure seems like there has got to be more to the story.

However there is always the chance he is absolutely genuine, which is why I offered an alternative easy solution to his dilemma.


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Offlineeivind
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: george castanza]
    #26887940 - 08/19/20 10:25 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

I have done exactly this. Cutting the powder to make measured capsules
Filled 100 capsules with a machine. I just wanted 0.1 in the capsules, and the capsules themself took like 0.5, so to make it practical, I mixed it with spirulina and Vitamin D. I guess you could use anything that is food safe (or healthy). Potatoflour, corn flour, sea weed, kale powder.... Fantasy is the limit here :laugh: Or try Paul Stamets protocol of mixing with Lions Mane for neural growth and cognitive improvement.

Don't be so suspicious and close minded people!


Edited by eivind (08/19/20 10:32 AM)


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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: eivind]
    #26887970 - 08/19/20 10:45 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

I'm suspicious by nature, however I try to remain open to new ideas and perceptions.

Thanks for stepping up and telling of your experience, I personally do not see the rhyme or reason for such action, but I'm also aware that I have rituals and beliefs that would seem strange to others.

Can I ask how you ensured a completely blended mixture that rendered a .1/.4 ratio in each individual capsule and what method you used to test or ensure the integrity of the blend was consistent in each capsule?


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Offlineeivind
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: eivind]
    #26887977 - 08/19/20 10:48 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Another reason to cut it, with or without capsules, is the fact that you might not have a very accurate scale, so cutting it makes weighing more accurate. Say you want to eat 0.05g, and your scale just shows 0.1 increments... And still, if you have an accurate scale, it will always be an error margin, which will decrease when cutting.
It's a no brainer in my eyes.


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Offlineeivind
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: george castanza]
    #26887995 - 08/19/20 11:00 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Hehe, I just assumed it kept an ok ratio
I blended everything in a coffee grinder and put in a jar. Then poured it over the capsules tray. Seemed to work well, but could of course have been done more accurately. I don't know how though.
Sorry about calling you close minded!


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Offlinebumboat
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: eivind]
    #26888031 - 08/19/20 11:23 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Eivind... thank you so much  :thumbup:

Now I feel less the need to justify myself.

@george castanza
Your way is ok but is not "portable". I'd like my capsule to be all prepared because of the way/where I live.

As I was saying in my second post, and as eivind correctly point out, cutting is an effective way to increase precision in dosing.
If you are taking 4g to trip on your vacation or if you are taking 0.1g for microdosing during working days you clearly need a different precision in dosing.
I'm probably overthinking it, but it's part of how I am.

On the same page (me overthinking the process) I'd like the "cutting agent" to be of a color different to mushroom powder to evaluate "by eye" how well I mixed the two powders.
I also plan on using a mortar instead of a coffee grinder, since a think that grinding togheder the  two things will make them blend better.


Edited by bumboat (08/19/20 11:31 AM)


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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: eivind]
    #26888060 - 08/19/20 11:44 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

That didn't really speak to verifiable thorough mixing or how you ensured accuracy in the blending of the substances or the ensuing measurement of dosage.

How do you ensure that your mix is completely blended?

What specific process are you using to determine that your compound is equally blended and your not getting  .002 of the goods in one cap and .3 of the goods in the next cap?

If your scale is not accurate and you have no faith that it is consistent why are you using it? Scales can always be checked against actual weights and calibrated if they are off, also without an accurate scale how do you decide how much cut to mix in?

I'm just trying to follow a pathway of thought to a logical conclusion, help me out if I'm missing something here.

What I'm hearing you say is that since you can't be sure it makes good sense to cut your product because that way you will be less sure about being uncertain about the actual dose.




It really seems like leaving the product in its original form and obtaining a consistent measuring apparatus would be the unequivocal way to maintain consistency and accuracy of individual doses. My position is that one should use the proper tool for the task in order to complete the task properly. Example: if you have trim to install around some cabinets and all you have is a three pound sledge hammer and 8 penny nails you don't glue a 2×4 to the trim peice so you can install it with the hammer and nails you have, you go get a trim/finish hammer and some finish nails if you want to do the job right.

Taking an exact specific dose you want and putting it in a container for later seems like it should be done with as few variables as possible if you're after consistency.


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Offlinebumboat
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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: george castanza]
    #26888083 - 08/19/20 11:58 AM (6 months, 3 days ago)

1) how you ensure that is completely blended:
If
a) particle size is enough small to be of trascurable size respect to the full dose
b) if it doesn't agglomerate
c) if it has a similar density

the entrophy (or the probability theory) ensures that the simple mixing is enough for guarantee a homogeneous mix.

I repeat, this is a very common way to make precision dosing in chemistry and pharmacy (expecially with liquid solved which ensure the mix is homogeneous)


2) Every scale, event calibrated has an error. Bigger or smaller.
whatsoever this error is, diluite the substance by X times divides the error (on the active ingredient) by the same factor.


Think of this:
why ever pharmaceutical drug you take is diluited?
why they sell you a dose of 0.0?g of active ingredient in something like 5g excipients instead of giving only the active ingredients?
(ok, not the only reason, but one of the main reasons)


Edited by bumboat (08/19/20 12:09 PM)


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Re: I want to "cut" mushroom powder [Re: george castanza]
    #26888111 - 08/19/20 12:15 PM (6 months, 3 days ago)

Quote:

george castanza said:
That didn't really speak to verifiable thorough mixing or how you ensured accuracy in the blending of the substances or the ensuing measurement of dosage.

How do you ensure that your mix is completely blended?

What specific process are you using to determine that your compound is equally blended and your not getting  .002 of the goods in one cap and .3 of the goods in the next cap?

If your scale is not accurate and you have no faith that it is consistent why are you using it? Scales can always be checked against actual weights and calibrated if they are off, also without an accurate scale how do you decide how much cut to mix in?

I'm just trying to follow a pathway of thought to a logical conclusion, help me out if I'm missing something here.

What I'm hearing you say is that since you can't be sure it makes good sense to cut your product because that way you will be less sure about being uncertain about the actual dose.




It really seems like leaving the product in its original form and obtaining a consistent measuring apparatus would be the unequivocal way to maintain consistency and accuracy of individual doses. My position is that one should use the proper tool for the task in order to complete the task properly. Example: if you have trim to install around some cabinets and all you have is a three pound sledge hammer and 8 penny nails you don't glue a 2×4 to the trim peice so you can install it with the hammer and nails you have, you go get a trim/finish hammer and some finish nails if you want to do the job right.

Taking an exact specific dose you want and putting it in a container for later seems like it should be done with as few variables as possible if you're after consistency.




I agree that the best and probably most accurate way would be to take an expensive accurate scale and measure each dose. However, I for one don't want to buy an expensive scale for that, as my 10 dollar scale with 0.1 increments is what I have and for normal use is fine. I would think that when blending powder, there won't be a huge difference in ratios in it. Maybe +-10% from capsule to capsule(just speculation). I could be wrong though, but I have yet to experience 0.3 in one capsule (I think I would have noticed).

I have also made doses of 0.05g and 0.08g, and there's no way to measure this with my present scale. Not saying it is better to use my method than individual measurements with a 100 dollar scale, I just use what I have, plus the fact that I'm filling 100 capsules at once, so I measure out 40g of blended powder first and fill the capsules with it.

The way I measure it, is to take say 10g cubes, powderize it, and mix with 30g of filler. Easy peasy. I don't see the problem!


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