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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: laughingdog]
    #26880236 - 08/14/20 02:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
You do realize in some corner of your brain, I suppose, that the computer you are using and all the technology that makes it possible, were not invented by people, who thought stupid beliefs that made them happy were better than truth?

Seems, most of the smarter, folks figure this out, as they leave childhood behind and enter adulthood.

Of course some never want control over their own lives, and are nothing more than fodder, for the next cult leader.




If being condescending makes you happier, more power to ya :wink:

That's all I was saying.  People should believe what they choose to make themselves happier.  If computers and technology bring you true happiness in life then great :thumbup:


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

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InvisibleFerdinando
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Registered: 11/15/09
Posts: 3,678
Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Forrester]
    #26882978 - 08/16/20 08:29 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

then self transcendence should be wider and broader

like a medicine

a cure

enveloping humanity

popular

mainstream like meditation

something everyone knew about like meditation

encouraged

insanity is very hurtful

it causes a lot of suffering

and restricted like a too tight belt

as soon as it's there it should be selftranscended

away

it is not something that is tabu

not even not-accepted

"insane-hosts"! hahaha

no seriously it should be ridded now


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26883017 - 08/16/20 08:50 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

well, your gardener is always faced with how much pruning feels right, and no list of should's or should-not's will make that better.

often the way plants are themselves, provide a clue for what to do next.

I say look to nature rather than should's or should-not's


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #26883646 - 08/16/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
You do realize in some corner of your brain, I suppose, that the computer you are using and all the technology that makes it possible, were not invented by people, who thought stupid beliefs that made them happy were better than truth?

Seems, most of the smarter, folks figure this out, as they leave childhood behind and enter adulthood.

Of course some never want control over their own lives, and are nothing more than fodder, for the next cult leader.




If being condescending makes you happier, more power to ya :wink:

That's all I was saying.  People should believe what they choose to make themselves happier.  If computers and technology bring you true happiness in life then great :thumbup:




.    Why should you care if I'm being condescending? You just stated you would rather believe lies than truth--  if it makes you happier, just pretend I'm a clown.
.    And be glad our president lies to the public causing more deaths.
.    Do you really expect to be respected, when you align yourself, with a philosophy that all intelligent people know, is actually currently killing people in the USA?

.  Anyway I did not disrespect you, and just suggested you are really doing yourself a disservice, by not taking the time, to re-think the consequences of your own assumptions. Intelligence is not just intuition that drops into our laps, but continually involves also making efforts to see if there are other angles to the assumptions we make. There is a continual choice between being lazy, or making an effort to keep learning. By comparison continual personal happiness, seems a rather childish goal.

“I have never looked upon ease and happiness as ends in themselves -- this critical basis I call the ideal of a pigsty. The ideals that have lighted my way, and time after time have given me new courage to face life cheerfully, have been Kindness, Beauty, and Truth. Without the sense of kinship with men of like mind, without the occupation with the objective world, the eternally unattainable in the field of art and scientific endeavors, life would have seemed empty to me. The trite objects of human efforts -- possessions, outward success, luxury -- have always seemed to me contemptible.”
― Albert Einstein, The World As I See It


Edited by laughingdog (08/16/20 03:51 PM)


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InvisibleYellow Pants
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: laughingdog]
    #26883860 - 08/16/20 07:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Like, I don't know what point you're trying to make laughingdog?  I gather you didn't believe in Santa Claus when young and have carried this dark suspicion into adulthood?


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26884185 - 08/17/20 01:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
well, your gardener is always faced with how much pruning feels right, and no list of should's or should-not's will make that better.

often the way plants are themselves, provide a clue for what to do next.

I say look to nature rather than should's or should-not's




Gardening is a great and very stimulating puzzle. But spraying large swathes of plants with herbicide is definitely a feelsbadman.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: laughingdog]
    #26884232 - 08/17/20 02:44 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Do you really expect to be respected, when you align yourself, with a philosophy that all intelligent people know, is actually currently killing people in the USA?





No, I don't expect to be respected.  I earn any respect I get by generally being kind to people. 

You assume an awful lot about my life philosophy from one statement, but that's fine I'm not here to engage you in an argument when you obviously aren't open to changing your philosophy about anything.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Forrester]
    #26884237 - 08/17/20 02:51 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'm gonna somewhat side with forrester on this one. Much as I think LD's posts do have wisdom, they look to me a bit pretentious, thick, and wanky sometimes. I have to admit I'm a cruel bastard so take it with a grain of salt, my heart's not easily broken.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Grapefruit]
    #26884310 - 08/17/20 05:44 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

herbicide is not what I call gardening


--------------------
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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26884475 - 08/17/20 09:05 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

you are always so nice to us helping us

I think we should go for big bucks and get more to read them

like there are solutions like that

your posts are solutions to us fix us

there is so big sums to get from getting everyone to vote left and

making mindfulness in plain english more popular

spreading meditation

it's not that rocket science

it's obvious it's open it's there

like people think people should go to schools it's that easy and significant

everyone vote left and everyone read redgreenvines posts

there common sense

when we find something that is that good we should share it like we do with psychedelics and raise our kids

:smile: to :laugh:

or :frown: to :smile:

if it was rule of thumb idea that meditation and yoga is some of the best to do

it would be done more

1000 times more

like that with left wing and reading the best

having the best the BEST art in institutions

including schools

figuring out and making public and earth idea the things that are best

we already do that but mindfulness in plain english should be mainstream idea

he says the benefits pile up over the years

and isn't that as good as jobs?

doing better

doesn't one achieve a job more with two years of meditation


--------------------
with our love with our love we could save the world


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Ferdinando]
    #26884529 - 08/17/20 09:30 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I like this
:smile: to :laugh:

or :frown: to :smile:


--------------------
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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Forrester]
    #26884647 - 08/17/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Forrester said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
Do you really expect to be respected, when you align yourself, with a philosophy that all intelligent people know, is actually currently killing people in the USA?





No, I don't expect to be respected.  I earn any respect I get by generally being kind to people. 

You assume an awful lot about my life philosophy from one statement, but that's fine I'm not here to engage you in an argument when you obviously aren't open to changing your philosophy about anything.




I get that he came on a little strong, but it seems a bit hypocritical to assert that he's unwilling to change his position, after you sorta just ignored his very serious critique of your logic.

I thought his main point was rather clear; going by whatever makes you feel happy is a demonstrably terrible way to get to objective truth.

Simple example; person A thinks his race is better than yours. This belief makes person A happy. Does that make it true?

Seems like one slippery slope if you ask me.


--------------------
LAGM2020
LAGM2021


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26884786 - 08/17/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
herbicide is not what I call gardening




When it's your job it's kind of a part of it. I try not to but at the end of the day sometimes clients are adamant that you should poison some earth for them. Very few gardeners are moral enough to avoid it entirely.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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InvisibleDisoRDeR
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Yellow Pants] * 1
    #26885863 - 08/17/20 10:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yellow Pants said:
Is faith, in the ultimate sense, an advisable movement to make? 





Not quite to your point, but as much as I like this word faith, I don't care for the way we use it.

We already have belief for that, or conviction, or some other synonym denoting a more passionate or important belief.

I like to make faith a different thing--an orientation toward reality, one which moves with awareness of mystery and feels connected.

In this sense belief is to faith (perhaps?) as content is to process. We may ply them apart, though it's usually a package deal.


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Svetaketu]
    #26885986 - 08/18/20 02:50 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Svetaketu said:
I get that he came on a little strong, but it seems a bit hypocritical to assert that he's unwilling to change his position, after you sorta just ignored his very serious critique of your logic.

I thought his main point was rather clear; going by whatever makes you feel happy is a demonstrably terrible way to get to objective truth.

Simple example; person A thinks his race is better than yours. This belief makes person A happy. Does that make it true?

Seems like one slippery slope if you ask me.




Fair point - I just don't want to re-hash the whole theism debate here, as it's been done a million times and no one on either side is ever convinced of the other.  People believe what they want whether your God is science and you call that truth, or give him another name.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineSvetaketu
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Forrester]
    #26886529 - 08/18/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'd disagree with that last bit, people believe what they have been convinced of and they can either be convinced for good reasons or bad ones.

But fair enough, certainly not here to push you into having a conversation you don't want to have.

Attempting to get back to the OP; I would say faith is not an advisable movement, as I consider faith to be the bad reason people give when they don't have a good reason to believe.


--------------------
LAGM2020
LAGM2021


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: Svetaketu]
    #26886628 - 08/18/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

"oh yea of little faith"
- this is a derogatory attitude to people who are not on your team
- therefore it is divisive and borne of attitude much more than personal experience or opinion separate from propaganda


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26886776 - 08/18/20 01:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

As regards the OP's question (1) and the argument re the pursuit of happiness, above truth (2).

1) There is a big difference between what people say they believe, and what they actually do in life - yet people get into big arguments with others about what they say, often without having any data as to how the person actually behaves in different situations.

2) One of the main points of Huxley's book "Brave new World" was that happiness, by itself, and for its own sake is a rather shabby goal, and that humans are actually capable of much loftier aims.

The Einstein quote I posted above, makes exactly the same point.

Both brilliant men, far smarter than most, so its understandable they didn't emphasize the qualifier that not all humans are actually capable of much loftier aims. So for those happiness must suffice, as a goal.


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OnlineBuster_Brown
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Re: Theism as a potentially advisable move [Re: laughingdog]
    #26886897 - 08/18/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Some critics might ensure me that empathy is a far higher goal than happiness. Let me see...

      "I empathize with your loss but find it hard to sympathize with deadbeats who have never had to work for a thing in their lives,"

There... I think I'm safe from vigilantes on the lookout for men who dare to refer to women as objects.


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