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CountHTML
Stranger


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Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times
#26883400 - 08/16/20 12:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It was last night watching a pop star—who will remain unnamed—on the television screen lip-syncing during a live performance that it occurred to me—is it possible that the electronic pop music of this current time is simply attempting to emulate what it thinks the future is supposed to be, or sound like? I think of the “futuristic” sounds of eras like the 80s — some in good taste, some not, some closer to being on the mark, some cringingly off—and how little this actually captured where we are today, and how poorly our current artists can imagine where we will be in say, thirty years.
Music since the 90s has moved from live ensembles into the studio, clean production having become paramount, surpassing, perhaps, raw songwriting and substance, granted one has a reliable formula for creating “jingles.” Even the word “talent” seems to have pivoted from poetic prowess to production chops, with the biggest exception being lyrically-focused rap. Raw materialism seems to reflect the corporate capture of popular music, much of which seems devoid of substance or those timeless qualities, with a few exceptions.
I guess what I’m getting at is that good music seems to a capture the zeitgeist of a given time, while also striving to foresee the future, to the extent possible. What I wonder is, whether a culture genuinely suffers when the popular music fails to do this? Or, is it even possible for this failure to occur? I think there’s a spirit of every time, and I suppose I wonder, what happens when this does not find genuine collective expression? I can’t help but think it can push a civilization towards a type of spiritual illness.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: CountHTML]
#26883445 - 08/16/20 01:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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in an age of plagues even music is going through a viral phage.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: CountHTML]
#26883766 - 08/16/20 05:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is a species of our general sociocultural decline. I would point out that films have been getting worse, or at least more pedestrian, for about the last twenty years. Good movies don't come out anymore, because studios won't make them. The decline infests every facet.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26883794 - 08/16/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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maybe the new james bond will help.
I wish Mel Brooks had something up his sleeve for us.
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Yellow Pants



Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: redgreenvines]
#26883885 - 08/16/20 07:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Simple and catchy. That's pop baby.
At its best anyhow. I agree and think we suffer when pop sucks. Who likes to constantly listen to shit music on the airwaves reminding one of the shallowness etc. of life ?
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Yellow Pants]
#26884241 - 08/17/20 02:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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While I agree for the most part with the assessments of the newer generation of music/entertainment, it kinda reminds me of what the older generation has been saying of the younger generation for the last half a century at least
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26884438 - 08/17/20 08:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: I would point out that films have been getting worse, or at least more pedestrian, for about the last twenty years. Good movies don't come out anymore, because studios won't make them.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way; I was concerned I was starting to become a crotchety old walking stick shaker.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,818
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#26884458 - 08/17/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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No, it's definitely a thing.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Lion
Decadent Flower Magnate


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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: DividedQuantum] 2
#26884503 - 08/17/20 09:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The film industry has recognized how it can endlessly sustain itself with big franchises. It still requires tons of production effort and craft but represents less unpredictability at the box office. It is incredible, though, how all of these big budget movies that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to make have much more rudimentary plotting and dialogue than children's movies, which actually have kind of been in a golden age for the past 10-20 years.
I also think there are still decent movies made globally. In my opinion, 2013 was one of the best years in film history, for example. I can name ten movies from the past five years that'd make it into my all-time top 50.
TV has also poached movies, and TV is worse than movies (or subject to the same forces as big franchises) in the sense that success means keeping it going endlessly even after all plausibility has been lost, and putting characters in endless high-stakes situations that lead to a kind of emotional nihilism in the viewer who's following all of this.
Also, doesn't it seem that culture at large is always pretty stupid? But it definitely does seem America in particular is in an ugly phase where all our culture is subsumed to marketing rhetoric and political rhetoric (and there's no longer any distinction you can even make between the two). We're drowning in ideologies and handing our art to algorithms.
Forgive the rambling and generalities - my morning caffeination just came fully online.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Forrester]
#26884523 - 08/17/20 09:28 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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what if the language and music that you learn up to 25 years of age is your language, and when you are older than 25, you may not incorporate many new sounds - you may think it's just noise, and from that vantage yes the new generation slips from the older one, and later another newer generation slips away from that.
from where I am sitting, there have been 5 major shifts in pop musical perfection that all sound a bit wrong, but also right by being fresh in some way. Starting with disco which I could not relate to at the time but now kinda like, it connects into some new sounds and pulls from the old too.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: redgreenvines]
#26884794 - 08/17/20 12:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'll bop my head to anything when I'm in the car or at someone elses house, not really fussy. At home I like deep and smart music with some spirit though. Or so I tell myself.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
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Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Grapefruit]
#26885147 - 08/17/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Deep and Smart?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#26885184 - 08/17/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah it has everything.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Grapefruit]
#26885251 - 08/17/20 04:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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What style though man? It sounds electronic to me but I may be biased....
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#26885348 - 08/17/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm just fucking with you really. I listen to a lot of electronic music yeah but these days it's mostly UK Hip Hop that really chills me out and brings me comfort, here are a few examples for you if you can bebothered to listen.
On the lighter side:
On the darker side:
What sort of music do you like?
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Grapefruit]
#26886013 - 08/18/20 03:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just to add to the topic of the thread I think most of you guys are way off base in your opinions.
1. No one reads books any more, they are just something women write and read to pass the time.
2. Good or great artists are almost never recognised in their time anyway.
3. 90% of the music in the past that was supposedly great is actual garbage. It was only popular because there wasn't so much diversity in the scene, so people listened to whatever was on the radio.
4. You have to try to get into a musical style. It takes time and it's not easy, there's an art to listening. But there is tons of good metal, techno, punk, misc electronic music, hip hop and various other genres out there. It's just more underground and dispersed than ever.
5 Lots of good visual arts out there but that scene is the wankiest scene of all because of the amount of money that goes into it.
6. Plenty of good indie films still came out until covid? Maybe you guys just aren't watching anything unless it gets big? Loads of old films were actual garbage?
Overall I have no idea what you are all on about and you seem way behind the times. Get your ears to the ground maybe?
Personally I generally I only consume media if it's fresh. I have no cares whatsoever for old dead shit any more, although I am glad I read some of the classics.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
Edited by Grapefruit (08/18/20 04:01 AM)
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Grapefruit]
#26886382 - 08/18/20 09:47 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: What sort of music do you like?
Drum & Bass is my absolute passion and muscial sweetheart, however I like almost anything aside of death metal.
I do especially dig UK Hip-Hop too these days. Braintax & Verb-T being two of my favourites. Difficult to know who's new on the scene living over here though; I really appreciate the vids.
Anychance you could list out a few more names worth checking out please mate?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 1
#26886438 - 08/18/20 10:27 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Love a bit of DnB myself.
Here's my misc rap playlist atm, still growing it out and trying to put some newer US stuff on there but I'm in murky waters looking for that... https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4kt6SohPeJFzG4ayk6QN20?si=ZOZL2Y6pSMCn8xNXrRJp7A
Particular recommendations might include Chester P, Roots Manuva, Dr. Syntax, Onoe Caponoe, Dirty Dike, Ocean Wisdom, Mr Key, Jam Baxter, Ed Scissor, Frankie Stew, Fliptrix, Chillman, Loyle Carner, almost forgot Rodney P but one of the best... etc... (plenty more on the list)
Personal favourites out of those would be Chester P (imo the GOAT of the UK scene), Roots Manuva (transcends hip hop completely anyway), Dr. Syntax, and Jam Baxter...
Like most who know things about the scene I don't listen to Braintax any more knowing that he ran away to Australia and robbed all the artists on his label of their money. Can't have a dude who did that preaching to me.
Fliptrix's label High Focus is generally the biggest label to go for UK Hip Hop releases these days.
Edited by Grapefruit (08/18/20 03:27 PM)
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laughingdog
Stranger

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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Grapefruit] 2
#26886609 - 08/18/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Partly the USA is a very angry and aggressive and crude culture
crude Japan=tea ceremony USA = Ronald McDonald & Disneyland
Aggressive football, boxing & "professional" wrestling are still considered sports/entertainment after they are known to cause brain damage
Angry look at the show offerings on Netflix and or Amazon possibly on a friends computer, if you aren't a subscriber (my son in law, in my case) And see what proportion of movies feature: guns, crime, vengeance, war, terrorism, and or just plain horror. i would say well over half, perhaps at least 90%
So in music we get rap and hip hop In video games more violence and in politics all sorts of nastiness and regular police dressed like SWAT teams
when a whole culture is permeated with such a low vibration not much can be expected from it whether in the graphics arts, music, or pretty much anything
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Grapefruit]
#26886663 - 08/18/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: ...still growing it out and trying to put some newer US stuff on there but I'm in murky waters looking for that... https://open.spotify.com/playlist/4kt6SohPeJFzG4ayk6QN20?si=ZOZL2Y6pSMCn8xNXrRJp7A ....
enjoying it.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: laughingdog]
#26886861 - 08/18/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sometimes it's better out than in though. Music is one thing that allows for that kind of cathartic release.
Japan is one of the nicest and politest cultures out there but they've clearly shown themselves capable of unspeakable acts of cruelty.
@RGV glad to see an old timer enjoying a list like that. May I particularly recommend you Roots Manuvas newest album "Bleeds"?
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Grapefruit]
#26887251 - 08/18/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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thanks, I've always been a bit deaf but I love music.
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Forrester
aspiring sociopath


Registered: 02/05/13
Posts: 9,351
Loc: Northeast USA
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Grapefruit]
#26888788 - 08/19/20 04:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Grapefruit said: But there is tons of good metal, techno, punk, misc electronic music, hip hop and various other genres out there. It's just more underground and dispersed than ever.
Very very true, that's always how it's been. Maybe you don't like older music, but GOOD older music did certainly exist, unfortunately underground stuff doesn't really survive over decades and is nearly impossible to find. Plus the recording quality sucked.
I try to find all my favorite D&B artists from the late 90's and you can't even find that stuff anymore!! Nobody knows who Andy C and Dieselboy are anymore
-------------------- Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here. ------------------- Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them? Try this double extraction method.
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
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Re: Music, Style, Aesthetic and the Times [Re: Forrester]
#26888810 - 08/19/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Andy C used to play in my local small town nightclub all the time haha. Now you've gone and gotten me blasting out some DnB.
I love old music, especially the blues. I'm just a bit of a contrarian really.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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