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bebop
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First Grow Jitters (updates!)
#26854546 - 07/30/20 10:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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If everything goes to plan I'll be inoculating tomorrow, just want to shore up the details:
I'll be using grow bags with 1lb grain and 4lb substrate inside. I understand grow bags suck, but I wanted experience with the rest of the process before investing in too much. Here's the specs for the bags:
Quote:
1 Pound Grain, 4 Pounds Coir Filter patch: 0.2 micron Bag size: 5x4x19 Seal: Bag is sealed twice with a double-sided heat sealer that is 10mm wide, yielding a total of 20mm (~0.8 inches) wide seal strip. Moisture content: ~55% Approximate protein content: ~5% Grain: Red Milo Seeds (Sorghum bicolor, 615 grams) Water: Municipal, 748mls Additives: Gypsum, small quantities of pulverized coco coir, peat moss, sawdust, and straw. * Sterilized for 150 minutes at 15psi. * Cooled and double sealed under a laminar flow hood.
I'll be inoculating 5CC from a sponsor here in each bag. I have a SAB, sitting on a dresser in a hallway closet (w/ the sliding doors). Everything is clean now. Tomorrow I'll clean again, shower, then clean some more. Wipe materials down, put in SAB. Spray water w/ a drop of soap in SAB. Open needle, wipe, then heat & ignore the soot, then let cool in SAB and inject.
After inoculating, I'll wipe down a cardboard box, put the bags in the box, and store the box either in a cabinet in the kitchen above the stove/microwave, or in the closet on a shelf above the dresser? The closet gets more airflow obviously and there are clothes in it, but the shelf in the closet sits above everything else. The cupboard is completely empty - but does it need more air to colonize? Leaning toward the cupboard since I'll never have to open it unless necessary.
Once ~70% colonized, I'll mix up the bag and wait some more. When ready to fruit, I plan on cutting open the bag and putting each colonized brick/block in a 32qt tub, on top of a layer of foil, on top of ~4 inches of damp perlite and misting daily. I plan on using the Sterilite 4-latch 32qt bin unmodified with the lid upside down, unlatched for FAE.
Other than starting with a grow bag, are there any holes in my plan? and would it be better to colonize in the cupboard/cabinet, or in the hallway closet?
Thank you!
I'll post here for progress updates.
update in the most recent post
Quote:
Update on Bag 2: I broke up the myc a few times, a little starting to be seen through the large spot of uncolonized grains. Ready to mix the whole bag or wait a few? Day 19:


And here's Bag 1, which I held onto but moved to a different spot and looks like it's winning against the red mold?



Should I still toss it?
Edited by bebop (08/27/20 03:48 PM)
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bebop
Registered: 07/04/20
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: bebop] 1
#26856068 - 07/31/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I hope no comments means there isn't anything wrong with my process here lol.
Since I'll have the 32qt Tubs, would it be better to combine the bags to make 32qt tub, like they do bulk tek?
At 70% colonized, instead of mixing up inside the bags, I'd open both bags and combine into one 32qt bin?
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Gayfish
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: bebop]
#26856100 - 07/31/20 07:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I think the general consensus is that spores to grain is usually a bad idea (especially for first grows). That being said, it has worked before and there’s nothing to say it can’t again. I think you’re just more likely to lose the grow to contams than if you were to start with the pf tek.
If the stars align and you don’t contam, I would suggest *not* mixing the two bags at 70% colonization. Logic being that if you have a contam in one bag that you’re not aware of, you’re basically trashing both bags by mixing them at that point. I would suggest waiting for 100% colonization, sticking both bags in the 32qt and top fruiting them, or just getting separate tubs.
All the being said, I’m a noob with very little experience, so take it for what you will. Maybe wait for a tc to chime in?
Edit: also I don’t think there’s a difference between your closet and the cupboard. I personally let my stuff colonize in a walk in closet with no door on it in my apartment. It’s just nice to have it out of the way, so whichever is more convenient for you?
-------------------- We don’t make sense around here, we make dollars
Edited by Gayfish (07/31/20 07:45 PM)
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Roger Clemency
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: bebop]
#26856101 - 07/31/20 07:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Since these are all in one bags you can’t open them until they’re 100% without risking contamination, because there will still be uncolonized grains in the mix.
And there’s no need to colonize cubes in darkness, just set them somewhere at room temp with ambient light.
Using a spore syringe without germinating on agar first will always be a gamble since you can’t see what’s in it, but it can and does work some of the time. Using spore syringes to an all in one grow bag though is even more sketch I think just because of the mass of the substrate and all the pockets of very low nutrient coir that the myc will have to travel through before finding another grain. If the grain is in a layer of its own though that would help your cause.
I’m not trying to rain on your parade or anything but those evil capitalists make it seem so simple with their ‘just add spores’ lol
Good luck friend.
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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bebop
Registered: 07/04/20
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an update: knocked up on 08/08, 7 days ago
Bag 2:

Bag 1:

the images are of 2 different bags. looks good, yes?
Also, I'm almost ready to start agar while this is going. I plan on getting a small PC (4qt or 6qt) for the agar. How is the yield for BRF cakes vs grain spawn and substrate? I don't plan on sterilizing my own coir, but I could probably do a few BRF cakes or a few Grain jars+buying premade substrate. Just wondering what the consensus is on that?
Edited by bebop (08/21/20 04:45 PM)
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A.k.a
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: bebop]
#26882413 - 08/15/20 09:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It looks really bacterial.
Coir doesn’t need to be sterilized, you can just add water to it.
Grain yields way more than brf cakes will.
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LAGM2020     
Edited by A.k.a (08/15/20 09:34 PM)
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bebop
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: A.k.a]
#26882523 - 08/15/20 11:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hopefully time will tell on the bags..
Maybe I will start boiling coir too.
For the grain, I'll make my own but a getting a little confused on the different teks; I'd be using agar, and Grain to Grain doesn't seem ideal to me as it adds another opportunity for contamination(but I do have a SAB). It seems 4-6 1/2 pint jars would fit fine in the 4-6qt PC I'll be getting
Does it make sense to inoculate four to six 1/2 pint grain jars with agar, then combine 2-3 jars with 3lb substrate per monotub?
That's why I'm also looking into BRF cakes. Seems super simple to prep in 1/2 pint jars, inoculate with agar, dunk/roll in verm when colonized and sit on a layer of foil and perlite to fruit. I think I could do all 4-6 half-pint BRF cakes in one 32qt monotub, then use the other monotub for another batch. Might be more yield in the long run? (plus factoring the cost of the substrate I'd buy, cost/time to prep grain, time to mix colonized grain with substrate etc)
What do you think?
Regarding Agar Inoculation - I understand that more means quicker colonization in the jar, so if I have 8 successful agar plates, and 8 BRF cakes/grain spawn jars, would I use a whole plate per jar? Any leftover agar would sit in the fridge until the grain is mixed into the tub and a new batch of grain is started.
On the other hand, if I have, say 2 successful agar plates, can I cut wedges from those 2 plates for ~8 BRF cakes/grain spawn jars, pint each? I've read not to mix agar from multiple plates in one jar - any other precautions?
Or am I overthinking everything and can just use agar to verify the syringe and continue to inoculate into grain bags?
edit again: found a 8qt Presto PC, so 6-8 pint jars apparently. Some questions remain but I feel better about grain jars now.
Edited by bebop (08/16/20 04:15 AM)
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Your Dudeness
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: bebop]
#26882577 - 08/16/20 12:33 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you bought a pre filled bag you learned your bacterial lesson for next time. Its a shame they ship so wet to begin with.
-------------------- RR sent me
Edited by Your Dudeness (08/16/20 12:34 AM)
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bebop
Registered: 07/04/20
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Quote:
Your Dudeness said: If you bought a pre filled bag you learned your bacterial lesson for next time. Its a shame they ship so wet to begin with.
Yeah I'm hopeful but not exactly feeling strong about the bags, but now I have to get it right this time 
BRF cakes to bulk makes some sense to me as far as I've read since I could also skip the bulk part if I decide and just fruit them on perlite. But it doesn't seem like you can inoculate BRF with agar?
Grain jars sound good, but I'm having a hard time figuring out the ratio of grains to substrate needed for a 32qt unmodified Sterilite monotub. I found an 8qt PC which supposedly holds 8 pint jars, so 4qts of grain spawn - with how much substrate? I read 2.5-3 inches depth ideally, any rough idea what that is in pounds?
edit: I probably don't need to know the weight of the substrate if I'm prepping it myself.
So the plan is as follows(for clarity):
Start with agar, using pasty's no-pour plates tek
Prep 6-8 pint jars of grain per bod's tek
Prep coir using bod's tek
Drop wedges into jars under a SAB (1 plate per jar? [pastyplates are a little smaller surface-area-wise than petri dishes])
Shake jars at 30% colonized
Mix all 6-8 pint jars(3-4qt colonized spawn) with prepped coir, 2.5-3 inches deep in the 32qt monotub
Mist if needed
Am I missing anything?
Edited by bebop (08/16/20 04:27 AM)
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A.k.a
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: bebop]
#26882817 - 08/16/20 06:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think tubs are waaay easier than fruiting cakes, plus with grain you’ll get way more mushrooms.
A pint and a half isn’t much though, I’d get quart jars.
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Roger Clemency
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: A.k.a] 1
#26883186 - 08/16/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You be thinking too much and not reading enough lol. You should get the biggest PC you can afford and store, and then get pint/qt jars depending on the size of said PC.
Some options: 1. Agar wedge(s) to each grain jar = 2-6 week colonization. For quarts. 2. Agar wedge(s) to a master grain jar (2-6) once colonized you g2g and get 10-14 day colonization on your receivers. 3. Agar wedge to LC - LC will be ready in 5-10 days. Pour 10-20ml into qt jars, shake, colonized in 10-14 days. 4. Sterilize a qt jar of water (250-500ml), throw a clean colonized agar puck in said water, shake it up well, pour 10-20 ml into qt jars and shake well. 10-14 day colonization.
Once that grain is colonized:
1. Put a brick of coir and 2-3qts of vermiculite in a 3.5 - 5 gal bucket. Pour 3qt (12 measured out cups) of boiling water into said bucket. Stir it up a bit. Cover with lid, or wrap with some towels etc to insulate. Wait a couple hours. Stir it up. Make sure all dry pockets of coir be wet and mixed in.
Now you have spawn and bulk sub:
That bulk recipe is perfect for 7 shoe boxes done this way https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662
Or you make your monos by adding all of that with 6qts spawn in a 58 or 66qt. For a 32qt maybe split it in halfish and make two with a few qts each.
You want to keep your ratio of spawn to bulk between 1:1 and 1:4. Probably even 1:2 should be the lowest ratio at first. You want speed and strength, plenty of spawn to help beat the clock. Just my advice.
I’ve got a bunch of good links here - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26578050&page=0&vc=1#26578050
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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bebop
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: A.k.a]
#26883298 - 08/16/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
A.k.a said: I think tubs are waaay easier than fruiting cakes, plus with grain you’ll get way more mushrooms.
A pint and a half isn’t much though, I’d get quart jars.
Yeah doesn't seem worth the time messing around with cakes if I can get it right with grain. I'm looking for a Presto PC 16qt or 23qt for under $100 and not finding one, but I can grab an 8qt for $40. If one run of grain from that 8qt PC (3qts grain spawn if all goes perfectly) that should be enough for one 32qt monotub right?
Quote:
Roger Clemency said: You be thinking too much and not reading enough lol. You should get the biggest PC you can afford and store, and then get pint/qt jars depending on the size of said PC.
Some options: 1. Agar wedge(s) to each grain jar = 2-6 week colonization. For quarts. 2. Agar wedge(s) to a master grain jar (2-6) once colonized you g2g and get 10-14 day colonization on your receivers. 3. Agar wedge to LC - LC will be ready in 5-10 days. Pour 10-20ml into qt jars, shake, colonized in 10-14 days. 4. Sterilize a qt jar of water (250-500ml), throw a clean colonized agar puck in said water, shake it up well, pour 10-20 ml into qt jars and shake well. 10-14 day colonization.
Once that grain is colonized:
1. Put a brick of coir and 2-3qts of vermiculite in a 3.5 - 5 gal bucket. Pour 3qt (12 measured out cups) of boiling water into said bucket. Stir it up a bit. Cover with lid, or wrap with some towels etc to insulate. Wait a couple hours. Stir it up. Make sure all dry pockets of coir be wet and mixed in.
Now you have spawn and bulk sub:
That bulk recipe is perfect for 7 shoe boxes done this way https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662
Or you make your monos by adding all of that with 6qts spawn in a 58 or 66qt. For a 32qt maybe split it in halfish and make two with a few qts each.
You want to keep your ratio of spawn to bulk between 1:1 and 1:4. Probably even 1:2 should be the lowest ratio at first. You want speed and strength, plenty of spawn to help beat the clock. Just my advice.
I’ve got a bunch of good links here - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26578050&page=0&vc=1#26578050
I absolutely do. Sometimes I read the perfect threads and get in lockstep mentally, last night everything I read kept sending me down another rabbithole-too much to consider at once. I appreciate the simplicity here!
An 8qt PC would be $40 and fits comfortably. Anything bigger than that I'm still searching for and not finding for a reasonable price. But I hope 6 pint jars in the 8qt PC would be enough for one 32qt monotub.
I like option 4, just would be with 6 pint jars if I get this PC. That's exactly how I'll prep the coir too, but I'm overthinking the amount. My issue is, if I prep a 650g brick of coir and don't use it all to get to 2.5-3 inches depth with in the monotub, how can I store the leftover coir, for weeks? (while I prep another batch of agar and grains)
Edited by bebop (08/16/20 11:24 AM)
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Roger Clemency
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: bebop]
#26883322 - 08/16/20 11:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think 3 qt spawn would be good for a 32qt and yeah you can store leftover coir. I’ve tightly packed it into gallon ziplocks for a few days. After too long you may have to rehydrate it a bit. Or you can just cut the recipe in half when you make it. That recipe comes out to like 11-12 qts of bulk sub. So half of that to 3 qts sounds pretty good.
Sub depth isn’t something I really worry about as long as it isn’t extreme one way or another. My shoe boxes are like 1 - 1.5 inches thick usually.
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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Neowynd8

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Did you buy these bags?
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Your Dudeness
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: Neowynd8]
#26883438 - 08/16/20 01:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You could fill up a quart jar with coco coir and see how many jars it'll take to fill up your container. The materials are so cheap it's not a big deal to prepare more than you need. I think RR's videos are on youtube watch the grain prep video it's better than Avatar 2
-------------------- RR sent me
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bebop
Registered: 07/04/20
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Quote:
Roger Clemency said: I think 3 qt spawn would be good for a 32qt and yeah you can store leftover coir. I’ve tightly packed it into gallon ziplocks for a few days. After too long you may have to rehydrate it a bit. Or you can just cut the recipe in half when you make it. That recipe comes out to like 11-12 qts of bulk sub. So half of that to 3 qts sounds pretty good.
Sub depth isn’t something I really worry about as long as it isn’t extreme one way or another. My shoe boxes are like 1 - 1.5 inches thick usually. 
Perfect. I kinda regret getting the 32qts instead of a few shoeboxes but now I've gotta use what I have. 5-6qt of prepped substrate with 3qt of grain spawn. Seems simple enough. Once I get everything to start agar, I'll post a new thread to walk me through that grow but almost every question is answered for now.
Quote:
Neowynd8 said: Did you buy these bags?
Yes, was about $25/bag. I'll see what happens with these and update here
Quote:
Your Dudeness said: You could fill up a quart jar with coco coir and see how many jars it'll take to fill up your container. The materials are so cheap it's not a big deal to prepare more than you need. I think RR's videos are on youtube watch the grain prep video it's better than Avatar 2
Watching that now and now I have more questions lol. Can I just drill a 1/4' hole into the lid and cover with micropore tape? How many holes? I don't plan on messing with a self-healing injection port since I'll be using agar.
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Roger Clemency
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: bebop]
#26883584 - 08/16/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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There’s many ways to do your lids. Unmodded which I’ve never tried but some say it works fine. 1/4” to 3/8” hole with a SFD (synthetic filter disk) underneath the lid.
Or you can cut 7 quarter sized circles from a single SFD and then silicon them on top of the lid over the hole.
Stuff the hole (oh yeah) with polyfil - I’ve done this and it works but I like SFD a lot better.
Then you have tyvek and Micropore tape and stuff like that to filter your GE hole. I’ve never used any of these but some do. Personally I sneer at these choices from my high horse but I’m just like that...they might work fine.
-------------------- Sour grapes, sweet revenge Heaven starts right where hell ends
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bebop
Registered: 07/04/20
Posts: 125
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Quote:
Roger Clemency said: There’s many ways to do your lids. Unmodded which I’ve never tried but some say it works fine. 1/4” to 3/8” hole with a SFD (synthetic filter disk) underneath the lid.
Or you can cut 7 quarter sized circles from a single SFD and then silicon them on top of the lid over the hole.
Stuff the hole (oh yeah) with polyfil - I’ve done this and it works but I like SFD a lot better.
Then you have tyvek and Micropore tape and stuff like that to filter your GE hole. I’ve never used any of these but some do. Personally I sneer at these choices from my high horse but I’m just like that...they might work fine.
Thank you, I'll likely grab some SFDs or just use 2 layers of micropore tape for this (since I already have a few rolls of that, looks like another $20 for SFDs)
However..thinking outside the box for a little side-project, I have an unlimited supply of 4oz weed jars, 1/4 pint. I want to try using those for some little mini BRF cakes just for fun. The lids are all plastic though, not sure if PP5. Would I typically be ok modifying a plastic lid with a filter (so I could just drop wedges instead of LI or LC)?
Or is there a way to modify foil + a filter for a lid?
edit: found a bunch of 1/4 jars with PP5 lids - they're the taller jars but I do have a few of the wide mouth 1/4 pints. This'll be fun
edit again: my thoughts/planned procedure for the agar to grain to bulk as well as this little weed jar idea are in my journal, I'll post those when I start the process. I'll follow up on the bags here though.
Edited by bebop (08/16/20 11:28 PM)
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A.k.a
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: bebop]
#26884376 - 08/17/20 07:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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People have done glasses and jars with no lids before, just foil wrapped around it instead and then poked the syringe through it.
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LAGM2020     
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bebop
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Posts: 125
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Re: First Grow Jitters [Re: A.k.a]
#26884744 - 08/17/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Right, but I wanna do agar even on the mini cakes for the following reason:
It'd be the same syringe.
Day 9 Should I toss this bag? (these safe to just throw out in a trash bag?) Bag 1:

Definitely extra moisture here but I set it down on the other side to help spread out. Doesn't look all that good either. Bag 2:
Edited by bebop (08/31/20 09:14 PM)
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