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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom] * 1
    #26881670 - 08/15/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

You just assumed the sketchy evidence Vahn421 provided, via YouTube video, didn't contain any make believe; and this is why people are pointing out that you hold a double-standard for make believe.




Your assertion that a content creator that has historically not always been morally correct in his approach can't make good content *at all* is completely incorrect.




You ever hear the story of the boy who cried wolf? Once you establish a reputation as a liar, no one believes you even if you tell the truth. An organization with a decades long history of deceptive editing has firmly established its reputation as a serial liar. I wouldn't put effort into debunking a report on Bat Boy from the National Enquirer either.





This is too convenient of an excuse to not look at videos on a case by case basis. I personally find it lazy and intellectually dishonest.


Quote:

Not all points of view have merit - not all ideas are equal. Of course we need to take care to avoid close-mindedness but the other side of that road is being so open-minded that we refuse to discriminate ideas with merit from those without merit, resulting in another situation where refusal to closely consider before passing judgement means we lose out on valuable insight.





So like, don't be closed minded enough to write off all of PV's videos as lies, because I'm not closed minded enough to write them all off as honest takes.

Seems pretty evident who has the bias, here.


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (08/15/20 01:26 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods]
    #26881677 - 08/15/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Ever think theres a reason the only person who still takes you seriously is our local Qcumber?




This right here isn't helping dismiss the case against you as the King of Make Believe. Just sayin'.


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/15/20 01:28 PM)


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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26881680 - 08/15/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

There is no case against me


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods]
    #26881685 - 08/15/20 01:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Well, you just lied for the sake of personal insult. :shrug:

If you want to engage us without the insults, I guarantee you you're not gonna get any from this side. The choice is yours, Koods.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26881727 - 08/15/20 01:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
We're on two different wave lengths here.  I'm trying to show that Vahn does better that most of the people attacking him, you're trying to show that he didn't win the Antifa argument (which I agree).



I'm not attacking Vahn421's argument anymore - I'm pointing out that every example you've provided of Vahn421 "making better arguments" has either been baseless conjecture (not an argument) or make-believe containing Youtube videos (also not an argument). How can you claim that Vahn421 "was generally making better arguments" if you can't even provide an example of one of these arguments?



Because AGAIN, I'm NOT defending Vahn's arguments.  I'm criticizing other people's responses.  I expect the type of replies that you're giving, not the ones I provided examples of.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
I know that several posters tried to push Vahn421 to make a proper argument; I tried, Ballsalsa tried, Enlil tried



You forgot my own criticism:smirk:

These came after the "your a big fat poo poo head" type of posts that I gave you examples of.  Again, the intent of my post was NOT to say Vahn was making great arguments, the intent of my posts was to point out that we need to get the ad hominem attacks under control.

You seem upset that I defended Vahn, even though I had the same critique of him as you did.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

People that try to expose Hillary mysterious die.



:laugh2:



See, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about Shivas.



On the one hand, you have information that appears to support Vahn's claim:  'Clinton death list': 33 spine-tingling cases

Then you got koods posting absolutely nothing to debunk the claim except riducule.

Did Vahn421 provide that "information that appears to support" along with the initial claim, or did you take the initiative to find it yourself?



The information has been "found" a long time ago.

But I agree 100% that Vahn should have linked to this or something similar.  Read on...

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Why should we flip the burden of proof and expect koods to debunk Vahn421's claim, rather than expect Vahn421 to support their claim?



We shouldn't.  Koods should have asked Vahn for a source, not mocked and ridiculed him.  THAT'S my point.

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
And, as koods rightfully points out, it's incredibly odd that someone so opposed to make believe would so casually use WND as a source:



Dude, I don't believe Hillary is a murderer.  I've said so here, and here, and here.

My point was to highlight the hypocrisy of believing Putin is a murderer, while not believing Hillary is, when there are more cases against Hillary than there are against Putin, without evidence in either case showing who is responsible.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods]
    #26881739 - 08/15/20 02:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Ever think theres a reason the only person who still takes you seriously is our local Qcumber?



Was that an ad hominem attack against... Qman???

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Well, you just lied for the sake of personal insult. :shrug:

If you want to engage us without the insults, I guarantee you you're not gonna get any from this side. The choice is yours, Koods.



:cookiemonster:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods]
    #26881746 - 08/15/20 02:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
There is no case against me



Is that as a challenge?  Shall we make the case?

All we have to do is search for "Source, or make believe?" in a reply to koods, and in almost every case it's make believe.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26881754 - 08/15/20 02:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Because AGAIN, I'm NOT defending Vahn's arguments.  I'm criticizing other people's responses.  I expect the type of replies that you're giving, not the ones I provided examples of.



Except you are, by asserting that an argument was put forth by Vahn421 to begin with. Vahn421 never made a proper argument and, as a result, never deserved a proper response in return. The expectation that we must provide proper rebuttals to even the most flimsy of arguments would allow a single troll utilizing the gish gallop to completely shut down all productive discussion on this forum.



Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
My point was to highlight the hypocrisy of believing Putin is a murderer, while not believing Hillary is, when there are more cases against Hillary than there are against Putin, without evidence in either case showing who is responsible.



And my point has been to highlight the inconsistent standards you have for calling out 'make believe'. You apparently spent more effort finding make believe about the Uighur genocide in this thread, than you did in finding the make believe in the specific posts of Vahn421's that you chose to highlight as good posts.


--------------------


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26881770 - 08/15/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Because AGAIN, I'm NOT defending Vahn's arguments.  I'm criticizing other people's responses.  I expect the type of replies that you're giving, not the ones I provided examples of.



Except you are, by asserting that an argument was put forth by Vahn421 to begin with. Vahn421 never made a proper argument and, as a result, never deserved a proper response in return. The expectation that we must provide proper rebuttals to even the most flimsy of arguments would allow a single troll utilizing the gish gallop to completely shut down all productive discussion on this forum.



I disagree.  I think explaining why people disagree with Vahn's logic goes a LOT farther than "you're a big fat poo poo head" type of response that we're so used to seeing from people like koods.  Especially with Vahn, who's shown he's listening to people, and either modifying his arguments, or explaining himself.

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
My point has been to highlight the inconsistent standards you have for calling out 'make believe'. You apparently spent more effort finding make believe about the Uighur genocide in this thread, than you did in finding the make believe in the specific posts of Vahn421's that you chose to highlight as good posts.



Because you already pointed out the make believe, and I was more concerned with all the personal attacks.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26881815 - 08/15/20 02:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So let’s get this straight. Falcon believes that Clinton isn’t killing people left and right, but instead of calling out Vahn on his make believe, he backs him up and provides a fake news source. 🤔


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods] * 2
    #26881820 - 08/15/20 02:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly. He has an internet crush on vahn or something.


--------------------


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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26881828 - 08/15/20 02:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:love:


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26882026 - 08/15/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
This is too convenient of an excuse to not look at videos on a case by case basis. I personally find it lazy and intellectually dishonest.

So like, don't be closed minded enough to write off all of PV's videos as lies, because I'm not closed minded enough to write them all off as honest takes.

Seems pretty evident who has the bias, here.



Given that a pattern of releasing deceptively edited footage has been established for Project Veritas, there is clear and reasonable doubt for the veracity of any claim this organization brings forth - even (especially) if accompanied by video evidence. I'm willing to seriously consider any claim they make if, and only if, you can provide independent corroboration of the claim.

But that should be easy for you to provide because I would expect you to be verifying each video on a case by case basis now - unless, of course, your default position is to assume the claims made by Project Veritas are true until proven otherwise - but that would be a clear bias on your part, so I'm sure this isn't the case.

So what have you done to examine and verify (as much as possible) the claims made in the specific video that you shared by Project Veritas? My mind is open and listening.


--------------------


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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26882032 - 08/15/20 05:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Project veritas should be rejected out of hand. They deceptively edit ALL of their videos. Just because you can’t tell they are edited to form a predetermined narrative, doesn’t mean they aren’t. James O’Keiife engages in highly unethical tactics, including attempting to tap a senator’s phone and sending a woman to the Washington post with made up allegations of sexual assault against a senatorial candidate.

project veritas is fake news


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26882089 - 08/15/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Once again, I don't believe Hillary is a murderer.  I'm just saying if you use the same logic with Hillary as you do with Putin, they're either both murderers or neither are



 
    Clinton’s guilt or innocence depends on what I think about a guy on the other side of the world ?
Pretty sure Putin is irrelevant to wether or not Hillary can be considered guilty or not .
Putin investigates his critics murders personally .
  They are very incomparable people .
Remember when Hillary used to  investigate murders ? No ? How about when we found out what she was hiding in her bathroom ? Hard to murder people if you can’t hide shit in your bathroom .

Quote:

President Putin has assumed "personal control" of the investigation into the killing, said his spokesman Dmitry Peskov.




https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31669061


--------------------


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26882158 - 08/15/20 06:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
This is too convenient of an excuse to not look at videos on a case by case basis. I personally find it lazy and intellectually dishonest.

So like, don't be closed minded enough to write off all of PV's videos as lies, because I'm not closed minded enough to write them all off as honest takes.

Seems pretty evident who has the bias, here.



Given that a pattern of releasing deceptively edited footage has been established for Project Veritas, there is clear and reasonable doubt for the veracity of any claim this organization brings forth - even (especially) if accompanied by video evidence. I'm willing to seriously consider any claim they make if, and only if, you can provide independent corroboration of the claim.

But that should be easy for you to provide because I would expect you to be verifying each video on a case by case basis now - unless, of course, your default position is to assume the claims made by Project Veritas are true until proven otherwise - but that would be a clear bias on your part, so I'm sure this isn't the case.

So what have you done to examine and verify (as much as possible) the claims made in the specific video that you shared by Project Veritas? My mind is open and listening.




Or you could just watch the video and give me your opinion on it. :rolleyes:


--------------------


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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
    #26882232 - 08/15/20 07:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I already did watch it. My opinion is that it's just another example of Project Veritas right-wing disinformation. It's video of self-defence classes interspersed with the "infiltrator" (ie, signed up for the gym class) narrating a completely different story about terrorism - ominous background music - and a slideshow of unrelated riots at the very end. That would be laughable if it wasn't duping people like you. This is why Project Veritas is right-wing disinformation and, as koods says, should be rejected out of hand.

So to be clear, you haven't gone back to examine the veracity of the claims in the video?


--------------------


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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Psilynut2]
    #26882243 - 08/15/20 07:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilynut2 said:
Quote:

Once again, I don't believe Hillary is a murderer.  I'm just saying if you use the same logic with Hillary as you do with Putin, they're either both murderers or neither are



 
    Clinton’s guilt or innocence depends on what I think about a guy on the other side of the world ?
Pretty sure Putin is irrelevant to wether or not Hillary can be considered guilty or not .
Putin investigates his critics murders personally .
  They are very incomparable people .
Remember when Hillary used to  investigate murders ? No ? How about when we found out what she was hiding in her bathroom ? Hard to murder people if you can’t hide shit in your bathroom .

Quote:

President Putin has assumed "personal control" of the investigation into the killing, said his spokesman Dmitry Peskov.




https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31669061




Exactly. There is no inconsistency in coming to the conclusion that the Hillary stuff is total fake news,  while also believing the accusations against Putin. They are completely unrelated. The veracity of one has no bearing on the veracity of the other.

Essentially the Hillary body count is a list of people the Clintons have known or have some connection to - however small - who have died. The Clintons know a lot of people and they’ve been in politics for 40 years. They’re gonna know a lot of people who die 🤷‍♂️. It’s a pretty silly list on its face. Plane crashes.
Suicides. Heart attacks. Strangely, nobody accidentally falling out of fourth story windows.


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26882427 - 08/15/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
People that try to expose Hillary mysterious die.



'Clinton death list': 33 spine-tingling cases
.
Which of the WND deaths didn't happen?
.
I don't believe Hillary is a murderer.  I've said so here, and here, and here.



So let’s get this straight. Falcon believes that Clinton isn’t killing people left and right, but instead of calling out Vahn on his make believe, he backs him up and provides a fake news source. 🤔



Technically, Vahn didn't make believe.  He didn't say "Hillary had these people killed", he said these people "mysteriously die".

Now, you'll probably say "but it was clear from the context that Vahn implied Hillary was behind it".  To which I say now you can read context when it works in your favor, but you can't read context otherwise?  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26882438 - 08/15/20 10:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

To which I say now you can read context when it works in your favor, but you can't read context otherwise? 




Dude this reflects your current behavior much more than it reflects koods'.

You're the one constantly calling make believe because people arent specific enough for you.

It's obvious that vahn believes in the killary conspiracy, where is your demand for evidence?


--------------------


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