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jdawg333
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‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... 3
#26880256 - 08/14/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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is IMO not a very good assessment of psychedelics. It would certainly be nice if that’s how it worked but I have personally found that taking a significant break has just made me continue along a path I would’ve continued on without tripping IE falling more easily to depression anxiety alcohol and drugs. Whereas a trip every few months or even more often tends to make these things a lot less overbearing. What are your thoughts. I do think a lot of psychedelics users especially from the 80s and 90s talk about or I have heard used progressively harder drugs, so maybe some people are just on a path to destruction regardless.
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rickomalley238
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: jdawg333]
#26880269 - 08/14/20 02:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Interesting post. I'm a big fan of Alan Watts, and I think this is particular to each person. I agree for the most part: a sober break generally seems to fuel some toxic pathways and behaviors over some time, but this is not to say for everyone.
Instead of having a curriculum or guideline in which one uses psychedelics, I would suggest one to not really think it through (as in, implementing egoic thoughts can easily persuade one to trip, or not to trip) but rather trust the self, the intuition, and use it on an as needed basis.
Without a doubt, most, meaning the overwhelming majority, of work should be done sober. When the mushrooms come calling, you will know.
And that way, you have intent, you have purpose, and you have trust.
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LosTresOjos
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: rickomalley238] 1
#26880293 - 08/14/20 03:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Alan watts the man who drank himself to death didn't think to continue with psychedelics but instead alcohol. He's a man like all of us and we are prone to mistakes.
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rickomalley238
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: LosTresOjos] 1
#26880295 - 08/14/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
LosTresOjos said: Alan watts the man who drank himself to death didn't think to continue with psychedelics but instead alcohol. He's a man like all of us and we are prone to mistakes.
His wisdom carries far beyond his fate..
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LosTresOjos
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: rickomalley238]
#26880303 - 08/14/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Obviously. I'm just commenting on his hanging the phone up idea.
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jdawg333
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26880329 - 08/14/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I never knew that about Watts. I do know that McKenna was effectively scared away from using psychedelics at one point, despite what the lectures from that time make you believe.
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LosTresOjos
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: jdawg333]
#26880337 - 08/14/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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mAh, McKenna talked about his apprehension. He also said if he was tripping 2-3 times a year he felt as if he was hitting it pretty hard. He also didn't take small doses. Both very inspiring individuals.
They kinda had a lot overlap in their lectures too. They came at it from different perspectives but some how they were finding the same rabbit holes.
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openmind
curious


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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: jdawg333] 3
#26880353 - 08/14/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
jdawg333 said: is IMO not a very good assessment of psychedelics. It would certainly be nice if that’s how it worked but I have personally found that taking a significant break has just made me continue along a path I would’ve continued on without tripping IE falling more easily to depression anxiety alcohol and drugs. Whereas a trip every few months or even more often tends to make these things a lot less overbearing. What are your thoughts.....
I've never supported or stood by that quote of "Hang up the phone once you get the message" .
The only thing I can see it being applied to is someone who is just constantly dosing and chasing the "high" .
My trips/sessions with psychedelics have become only more interesting as I grow older and accumulate more life experience and knowledge. I'm not the same person I was when I first ate mushrooms about a decade ago so my trips aren't going to be the same. Different streams of thought, different wisdom and knowledge to work with, different things to ponder, different "messages" to receive.
I find there isn't any single grand message for me to receive...rather, with a silent and open mind there's a constant stream of insight and wisdom about my self and about nature & the mystery that these entheogens/psychedelics catalyze. There is a constant dialog going on with my trips/sessions between different parts/aspects of myself and with nature/the cosmos, it is never ending.
Even if there was some sort of grand single "message" that was bestowed upon me during a trip I still wouldn't hang up the phone......because these things aren't used just to "receive a message". There's many uses and ways that psychedelics can be worked with.
-Problem solving
-Exploration of the mind/reality
-Catharsis & healing, working on oneself, mental health work, healing past traumas, etc
-Spiritual & religious communion
-Creativity, play, & celebration.
-Supporting a positive mood and outlook on life
-The physiological/neurological beneficial aspects such as neurogensis
It's been about 12 years since I've started working with psychedelics somewhat regularly, having a session with them about once every month or two over the years (tho I haven't much over the past 2 years, lots of stuff happening in my life recently)....I don't plan on ever hanging up the phone tho.
I know a lot of the time people go on about how psychedelics should only be taken a few times a year and people should space their trips out far apart to allow time for "integration"....but I feel people should be dosing once a month, every month, for most of their life lol.
When I've consistently worked with psychedelics once a month, sometimes twice a month, for about 6 or 7 months straight, I was feeling absolutely amazing in every way (cognitively, emotionally, physically, energetically)....I feel dosing mushrooms once a month does A LOT for my mental health and also really enhances my cognition.
I'll never hang up the phone lol.
-OM
.
--------------------
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Sabnock
Be Your Own Shaman


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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: openmind]
#26880397 - 08/14/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said:
Quote:
jdawg333 said: is IMO not a very good assessment of psychedelics. It would certainly be nice if that’s how it worked but I have personally found that taking a significant break has just made me continue along a path I would’ve continued on without tripping IE falling more easily to depression anxiety alcohol and drugs. Whereas a trip every few months or even more often tends to make these things a lot less overbearing. What are your thoughts.....
I've never supported or stood by that quote of "Hang up the phone once you get the message" .
The only thing I can see it being applied to is someone who is just constantly dosing and chasing the "high" .
My trips/sessions with psychedelics have become only more interesting as I grow older and accumulate more life experience and knowledge. I'm not the same person I was when I first ate mushrooms about a decade ago so my trips aren't going to be the same. Different streams of thought, different wisdom and knowledge to work with, different things to ponder, different "messages" to receive.
I find there isn't any single grand message for me to receive...rather, with a silent and open mind there's a constant stream of insight and wisdom about my self and about nature & the mystery that these entheogens/psychedelics catalyze. There is a constant dialog going on with my trips/sessions between different parts/aspects of myself and with nature/the cosmos, it is never ending.
Even if there was some sort of grand single "message" that was bestowed upon me during a trip I still wouldn't hang up the phone......because these things aren't used just to "receive a message". There's many uses and ways that psychedelics can be worked with.
-Problem solving
-Exploration of the mind/reality
-Catharsis & healing, working on oneself, mental health work, healing past traumas, etc
-Spiritual & religious communion
-Creativity, play, & celebration.
-Supporting a positive mood and outlook on life
-The physiological/neurological beneficial aspects such as neurogensis
It's been about 12 years since I've started working with psychedelics somewhat regularly, having a session with them about once every month or two over the years (tho I haven't much over the past 2 years, lots of stuff happening in my life recently)....I don't plan on ever hanging up the phone tho.
I know a lot of the time people go on about how psychedelics should only be taken a few times a year and people should space their trips out far apart to allow time for "integration"....but I feel people should be dosing once a month, every month, for most of their life lol.
When I've consistently worked with psychedelics once a month, sometimes twice a month, for about 6 or 7 months straight, I was feeling absolutely amazing in every way (cognitively, emotionally, physically, energetically)....I feel dosing mushrooms once a month does A LOT for my mental health and also really enhances my cognition.
I'll never hang up the phone lol.
-OM
.
I agree, same here.
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LosTresOjos
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: openmind] 1
#26880469 - 08/14/20 05:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The question:Is tripping regularly bad for the individual?
I don't think so. Although our society might have something else to say, i think that if you choose this life it has a tendency for keeping you on a focused path. Not bad or good but focused. Kinda like the tunnel vision people get when they are after their dreams. We all came to the mushroom for one reason or another and we have stayed for various reasons too. I'm a lot more gentle and patient now but at the same time a less tolerant to bs.
Edited by LosTresOjos (08/14/20 05:18 PM)
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Graymaster


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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26880792 - 08/14/20 09:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If some people are destined for a path of self destruction. I would suggest running rather than walking. Gives you more time to pick up the pieces and plan a better destination for the next attempt.
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: Graymaster]
#26880854 - 08/14/20 11:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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We're all free to make our own choices. Psychedelics are tools, they're not needed by any means. We are our own greatest teacher. Man, I haven't taken a trip in a few years after my last trip told me I could do everything the psychedelic does myself, ever since then I've been working to become my own psychedelic. I don't have any desire to trip, but also I never really have - I've always forced myself to because I know it's good for you, kind of like committing to working out for years because you know it's good for you. I'm sure if I took a trip I would find growth within it, but also you could do that for any experience in life not just the psychedelic experience. To each their own, they are here for a reason and we are free to explore our own consciousness
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
Edited by Eclipse3130 (08/14/20 11:11 PM)
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rickomalley238
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: Eclipse3130]
#26880891 - 08/14/20 11:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eclipse3130 said: We're all free to make our own choices. Psychedelics are tools, they're not needed by any means. We are our own greatest teacher. Man, I haven't taken a trip in a few years after my last trip told me I could do everything the psychedelic does myself, ever since then I've been working to become my own psychedelic. I don't have any desire to trip, but also I never really have - I've always forced myself to because I know it's good for you, kind of like committing to working out for years because you know it's good for you. I'm sure if I took a trip I would find growth within it, but also you could do that for any experience in life not just the psychedelic experience. To each their own, they are here for a reason and we are free to explore our own consciousness
Very interesting assessment. You practice meditation or spirituality? And.. how many trips/what doses do you have under your belt, before you called it quits?
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Grey Fox

Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 2,652
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: rickomalley238] 1
#26880959 - 08/15/20 01:23 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It will be different for everyone.
Its hard to say exactly how many times I've tripped, but my best guess would be about 90 times. Half of those times was with mushrooms and the other half has been mostly cactus but also some LSD. My first trip was 3 tabs of acid in 1997.
I still learn something new everytime I trip. I still look forward to future trips. I consider it to be an important part of my life. Tripping has been formational to my understanding of spirituality. It has provided tremendous insight. Tripping has been a big part of my personal development. It basically de-programmed me from a fundamentalist Christian worldview.
The big change I've noticed over the years as I've aged and grown more experienced with psychedelics is that I no longer have much desire to take on the really big, challenging trips that used to be so exciting to me when I was younger. I'm very content to hang out at the medium to light dosage level when I trip these days. The thing about the big trips is that they take a big toll mentally, emotionally, and physically, especially with cactus, which is all that I trip anymore. Those big San Pedro trips can last for 20+ hours. I'm just not up for that anymore; I really dont feel the need. But I'll probably go back there again someday, it will just have to be for a very special occasion.
These days San Pedro has become integrated into my life at a fundamental level. I trip every Solstice and Equinox. Sometimes I trip in between those dates if I feel the call. It just depends.
Basically, tripping on San Pedro has become my religion. Its just a part of me now. I'm pretty sure I'll be doing this for the rest of my life. It feels good. It feels healthy. And its very rewarding. I cant ever imagine hanging up.
-------------------- IT WAS ALL A DREAM
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FranxLove

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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: Grey Fox]
#26881012 - 08/15/20 03:39 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Watts & Mckenna...very inspiring people indeed.
Hang up the phone?
Depends.
You got a better plan for developement? What are you gonna do with your life? What life are you gonna lead?
Cause if you are gonna become a monk and live in nature and practice meditation daily, yes you can hang up the phone.
But if you are a normal person in the city, living this life with our jobs, family, friends, apartments and vehicles...
this life is stressing and it really detaches one from whats actually going on with the mystery of existence. I think we all yearn for a little more nature and groundedness. The classic psychedelics prove to be thereupetic and great sources of wisdom. We psychonauts talk of our most cherished 'trips' in terms of "One of the best days of my life." We would never want to go back to not knowing what lies behind the veil. These trips have opened our hearts, our body and mind, our whole being.
You can not trip forever, there are going to be breaks, but in the back of your mind you always know they exist. And thats a very reassuring feeling.
I tried psychedelics almost three years ago by breaking through on DMT fb. I've smoked DMT at least 150 times in one year. Now a days I couldnt touch the stuff if you paid me. I couldnt take big doses now. I dont want to go there.
But psychedelics are very versatile, so you can drink Aya with very little or no dmt and not trip but feel really reseted and healed😇 Low dose shrooms to chillax 👽 Low dose cactus to get get some strong loving and connection 🙏 Try to stay off other stuff, psychedelics help cause they remind you they are the better alternative. Just dont trip so much, like sometimes you trip so much you get tracers, and like do I have HPPD? And its cause you should space out trips. Ideally, you should be sober always and only take psychedelics sparringly and always building up to big doses and never over doing it. you cant go wrong like that. But there's a learning curve and we have to build our relationships with psyches by trial and error.
but c'mon, we all know psychedelics are magic
They are the Philosophers Stone
Its an amazing discovery to make in life
There's a reason they were used in Ancient times...There's a reason they've been called Plant Teachers. Classic psychedelics were discovered and used by older cultures, as part of their spiritual and religious life, as plants and agents that were respected, or in some cases revered for generations and may be a tradition that predates all modern religions.
From the Rigveda
Splendid by Law! declaring Law, truth speaking, truthful in thy works, Enouncing faith, King Soma!... O [Soma] Pavāmana (mind clarifying), place me in that deathless, undecaying world wherein the light of heaven is set, and everlasting lustre shines.... Make me immortal in that realm where happiness and transports, where joy and felicities combine...
-------------------- The greatest medicine is the emptiness of everything .............................. Sole dominion over the Earth going to heaven lordship over all worlds The fruit of stream-entry
excels them
Edited by FranxLove (08/15/20 03:56 AM)
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Asante
Mage


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Posts: 86,795
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: FranxLove]
#26881014 - 08/15/20 03:45 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sometimes though, tr trip is done with you and you are no longer welcome. It never sits right anymore.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: rickomalley238]
#26881089 - 08/15/20 05:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
rickomalley238 said:
Quote:
LosTresOjos said: Alan watts the man who drank himself to death didn't think to continue with psychedelics but instead alcohol. He's a man like all of us and we are prone to mistakes.
His wisdom carries far beyond his fate..
yes his books can be helpful, though his approach was more about book sales like Casteneda, another fortunate author who captured our imaginations.
luckily the phone changed - it is always on, we are continuously connecting, and that is better than making a big show about hanging up the phone. enlightenment as a product however, yeah if you can objectify it then hell go drink up a storm with the phone on the hook.
but if you can bring down some tablets from a holy mountain, then sure hang up the phone and dance your way through the desert
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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InnerWisdom



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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: redgreenvines]
#26881113 - 08/15/20 06:28 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If the message is "don't keep calling" then it makes sense  Also I think this is a good principle for developing oneself further and integrating after the trip. Other than that, I don't think there is a reason to stop tripping permanently even if you get the message. Otherwise, you could just kill yourself after whatever you thought was the message of life too... also hanging up a phone doesn't mean it's not going to ring again or you won't call again, if we really start taking this literally. Watts probably got the message he wanted to hear or never got the message he needed to hear (in regards to alcohol abuse).
Peace
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,531
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: InnerWisdom] 2
#26881295 - 08/15/20 09:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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there is no single message, and no all encompassing message either, so it's just a gimmicky zen trick phrase, I'm still working on the one hand clap thing
--------------------
_ 🧠 _
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Eclipse3130
Servant of the Fungi



Registered: 10/06/13
Posts: 6,220
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: rickomalley238]
#26881419 - 08/15/20 10:35 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
rickomalley238 said:
Quote:
Eclipse3130 said: We're all free to make our own choices. Psychedelics are tools, they're not needed by any means. We are our own greatest teacher. Man, I haven't taken a trip in a few years after my last trip told me I could do everything the psychedelic does myself, ever since then I've been working to become my own psychedelic. I don't have any desire to trip, but also I never really have - I've always forced myself to because I know it's good for you, kind of like committing to working out for years because you know it's good for you. I'm sure if I took a trip I would find growth within it, but also you could do that for any experience in life not just the psychedelic experience. To each their own, they are here for a reason and we are free to explore our own consciousness
Very interesting assessment. You practice meditation or spirituality? And.. how many trips/what doses do you have under your belt, before you called it quits?
Yes I practice awareness techniques. I haven't called it quits, I just haven't tripped in the last few years for no rhyme or reason, have been enjoying life without psychedelics. I'm sure I will again someday
-------------------- "In The Material World One seeks retirement and grows Old In The Magical World One seeks Enlightenment and grows Wiser In The Miraculous World One seeks nothing and grows Lighter As we all tread the Homeward Path we will explore many Realms And one day... we will all Realize that all experiences are Simply Different ways in which The All-That Is Perceives Itself"
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: jdawg333] 1
#26881694 - 08/15/20 01:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, well, using any kind of sound bite as a guide to fundamental tripping is just bogus. 
I suppose this has become a classic cliche over the years and this particular thread topic pops up every few months or so. 
I've tripped well over a thousand times on mushrooms and I'm doing them about every 4 days right now, and it's incredible (of course). This is after a multi year break. I wouldn't change the amount I've tripped and the way I've tripped over the years for anything.
There is no phone.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26881763 - 08/15/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yep 👍
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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InnerEternity
Stranger

Registered: 07/12/20
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: jdawg333] 1
#26881765 - 08/15/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't know why many people think that hanging up the phone means stop using psychedelics forever. I remeber that the actual quote continued with something like this "the scientist doesn't keep its eye glued to the microscope".
For me the quote means that after you have a meaningful psychedelic experience (get the message) you have to integrate that experience into daily life before making another call. Otherwise you're going to go deeper down the rabbit hole without making anything good out of it and eventually losing touch with reality.
Unfortunately there is bad propaganda not only against psychedelics but also in favor of psychedelics. And there are stupid people like me who thought that the answers to my issues lied in the trip itself rather than on the message it gave me. If I had followed that quote now I would be able to enjoy a trip every now and then.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: InnerEternity] 1
#26881989 - 08/15/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It’s one of those slogans that can have a lot of different uses & meanings read into it. So depending how it’s use it’s hit or miss. But ya I know what ya mean.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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LosTresOjos
Humano

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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: The Blind Ass] 1
#26882053 - 08/15/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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First hand experiences are very important for this reason. Like reading the whole quote in context.
"If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen."
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26882279 - 08/15/20 07:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, it's completely a point of view, isn't it? Mechanistic western thought paradigm. Psychedelic drugs are not simply instruments to be wielded by psychonauts, they are far more than that.
It's more like "if they hang up the phone, hit redial." Try to connect to hyperspace, not just look for "messages". FWIW.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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FrancoAmerican
Yes-man


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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26882280 - 08/15/20 07:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you get the message, pick up the phone and return the call... or maybe spread the message beyond yourself.
Maybe next time you should hope for an international call.
Sometimes you realize redundancy is a system built with the intention of message confirmation.
I also feel that most messages have nuance which could take many sessions to decipher.
Most everything in life is a cycle. Hanging up the phone is death.
-------------------- Life ——>🍄🤯🍄😢🍄😆🍄😀🍄💀🤙🏼——->Death
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: FrancoAmerican]
#26883222 - 08/16/20 10:44 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
works on what he has seen
I like to work on what I am seeing, and that helps me work on what I will see.
if the phone rings, please take a message. I'm busy.
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7even
deceased


Registered: 02/25/17
Posts: 441
Loc: hell
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: redgreenvines]
#26884106 - 08/16/20 11:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If the phone rings, pick it up. If it's your mom, talk with her. If it's a telemarketer, block their number. If it's your friend, say hi. and then if it's a neighbor that kicked your dog or stole your paper you cuss them out. And then after you get the message, sell your phone on ebay. And never use a phone ever again. Because all messages are redundant. As a matter of fact, people are redundant. As a matter of fact, this whole life is meaningless. So pick up the phone again!! Wait nevermind dont. Then you take your microscope or hammer, or gun or pencil or whatever tool you have near you and you shove it up your ass. Because tools are only meant to be used once in your life. And once it's up your ass you just leave it in there and walk around until you die.
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: ‘If you get the message, hang up the phone’... [Re: 7even]
#26886144 - 08/18/20 06:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If it's an Indian scamcenter calling, don't pick the phone up at all!
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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