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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26878763 - 08/13/20 02:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Oh and you lied about what the map represented a second time by acting like it represents electoral votes when it doesn’t.

You’ve yet to admit being full of shit though.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26878809 - 08/13/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
How does that map say that? Do you not see the electors?




Those are counties


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: koods]
    #26878888 - 08/13/20 04:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Dems will stop bitching when Texas turns blue.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26878896 - 08/13/20 04:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:

qman said:
She never has and never will represent women and people of color, not gonna happen. She going to represent corporate interests, the very rich, the military industrial complex, the criminal justice system and piss on the working class.



I mean, she is a woman of color, so she is representative. Whether or not she enacts policies that empower marginalized groups is a different question, and when it comes to that question, I completely agree with you.

She's an American Democrat, which means she's a right-of-center politician who will protect LGBT rights, probably abortion rights, probably legal pot, and other left-ish social policies. It also means that she'll protect the military-industrial complex, as you said. Like I said in my original comment, I'm very frustrated with the American Democratic party right now because it's just not left-leaning enough for me to enthusiastically back it. I see it as a lesser of two evils right now, which is beyond frustrating and definitely doesn't feel like a democracy that works in the interest of the working class.




What is her stance on the death penalty? Sorry to drag this out but I need to know. Does she have a desire to amend the constitution or not? It should not affect your vote of her or not. For me though I am trying to compile a general attitude of every candidate and what they plan to do during their administration. Which so far has been very hard to figure out except for what they have done in the past and the general history of what they have done before it has been very hard to get a good idea of what each candidate is trying to do. Except Trump. That has been easy to figure out he is very firm on his stance and his stance is not necessarily something I support but none the less he has been very clear


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: imachavel]
    #26878950 - 08/13/20 05:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I think they were all in a position where we have to ask ourselves one important question. Will President Trump issue a nationwide mask mandate? No he won't he's said it many times. Joe Biden will make a nationwide mask mandate that will save possibly hundreds of thousands of lives in the next 4 years.

Without a unified Nationwide response to something as simple as wearing a mask, consumers don't feel comfortable going to businesses and when Hospital Systems and morgues are consisently over task and under prepared even the most red states there are were forced to re close for a third time. When you think of hot spots in America and know how bad they are you think that's only affecting that part of the country and your areas just fine but people travel from hotspots all the time with no masks and spread it further. Most businesses will go under in our economy won't be able to come back if we have to keep closing and people are so scared they don't want to go to a local business because they know people without masks in their area could kill them and their families.

Now that there has been a 95% increase in covid in kids with almost 100 deaths and countless spreading to teachers and parents there's 0 chance we can open schools and KEEP them open. Already many states are reversing course because their parents don't want to send their child into a place where they could die or bring it to the family. If Trump was very Pro mask and even considered Nationwide mask mandate the conversation would be a little different but not much.

Our nation can't take the pain and suffering Trump would bring in another 4 years


--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: Seriously_trippin] * 4
    #26879006 - 08/13/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)



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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: christopera]
    #26879042 - 08/13/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Oh and you lied about what the map represented a second time by acting like it represents electoral votes when it doesn’t.

You’ve yet to admit being full of shit though.



Just because i wrong it doesn't mean i lied  :shrug: the specifics of the map didn't even matter because it was to show that people outside of California and new York were voting for him. Frankly i don't know why you're being such a prick about it :shrug:


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26879055 - 08/13/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Why would trump do that? Why not let states decide for themselves what they want? Any private company can issue whatever policy they want regarding customers wearing masks. A nation wide mandate is unnecessary and would piss people off


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: MagicMush123] * 2
    #26879101 - 08/13/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Frankly i don't know why you're being such a prick about it :shrug:



The hostility level in this forum seems to have gone up lately.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26879103 - 08/13/20 07:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
I think they were all in a position where we have to ask ourselves one important question. Will President Trump issue a nationwide mask mandate? No he won't he's said it many times. Joe Biden will make a nationwide mask mandate that will save possibly hundreds of thousands of lives in the next 4 years.

Without a unified Nationwide response to something as simple as wearing a mask, consumers don't feel comfortable going to businesses and when Hospital Systems and morgues are consisently over task and under prepared even the most red states there are were forced to re close for a third time. When you think of hot spots in America and know how bad they are you think that's only affecting that part of the country and your areas just fine but people travel from hotspots all the time with no masks and spread it further. Most businesses will go under in our economy won't be able to come back if we have to keep closing and people are so scared they don't want to go to a local business because they know people without masks in their area could kill them and their families.

Now that there has been a 95% increase in covid in kids with almost 100 deaths and countless spreading to teachers and parents there's 0 chance we can open schools and KEEP them open. Already many states are reversing course because their parents don't want to send their child into a place where they could die or bring it to the family. If Trump was very Pro mask and even considered Nationwide mask mandate the conversation would be a little different but not much.

Our nation can't take the pain and suffering Trump would bring in another 4 years




You really think the masks make that much of a difference? A lot of biological experts would say infections are so easy like if you grew shrooms in a room and the shrooms were not contained and you expected Cubensis spores to out compete any other bacteria or fungus spores in the room and you even put a mask over the container for the shrooms with loose pieces uncovered and expected the shrooms to grow perfectly uninfected. The mask does that much?

Maybe it does though. A person breathing out does push millions of particles far into the atmosphere with every exhale. I figured people being more aware and distanced and that being a socially acceptable norm these days being more of a reason for less threatening infections then the masks. That and more awareness and doctors visits in a post pandemic hypochondriac obsessed society and people testing positive distancing themselves more.

But maybe you are right. Maybe Biden would enforce a national mask order and save millions of lives. Really I am not expert and you could be right :shrug:


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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InvisibleMagicMush123
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26879112 - 08/13/20 07:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Frankly i don't know why you're being such a prick about it :shrug:



The hostility level in this forum seems to have gone up lately.  :shrug:



I know. I saw someone throw a bunch of personal attacks at you in that other thread. Surprised the mods allow it


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #26879132 - 08/13/20 07:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I wouldn’t have to be a prick if you could bring some honesty to the discussion.

At least you finally admitted you were making shit up.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: MagicMush123]
    #26879135 - 08/13/20 07:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:




Trump doesn't stand for the Americans losing family members to covid. This is meme garbage

Quote:

MagicMush123 said:
Why would trump do that? Why not let states decide for themselves what they want? Any private company can issue whatever policy they want regarding customers wearing masks. A nation wide mandate is unnecessary and would piss people off



At this point pissing people off or not is not a priority with all the carnage their snowlflake asses have already caused its completely nessicary to open any part of the country with any success many scientists have said just that.

The rest of the world disagrees with you and science around the world disagrees with you. Also historically when he calls himself a wartime president he isn't far off about the war part this is a war on covid. In WW2 americans had to truly sacrifice to save jews from death camps and protect our country from ruin. Civilians rationed food,plastic, rubber,no cars were manufactured for civilian use and many people gave money and any metal object they had to fight a war that would protect american lives. Here we are in 2020 and almost half the country are not making even the smallest sacrifice to save lives when we know it's possible from mountains of evidence. We also have a president that has only served to make people doubt the effectiveness of masks,refuses the idea that kids get sixk,refuses the idea that 99.9% of cases are not "totally harmless" and that's one of the biggest reasons why it's never ending.

If Trump would've from the beginning told his rabidly die hard supports to wear masks there wouldn't have ever been a contreversary Trump supporters would be wearing masks that said Trump 2020 gladly. The countries who have the most success in keeping their economy open,deaths down astronomically and so on have either had a short but strict lockdown nationwide or at least everyone knew to wear masks. Now it's us and a few he'll holes like Brazil that can't produce a unified response based on the good in people it's been the exact opposite. If they instituted Nationwide mask order hospitals wouldn't be overflowing,not as many businesses would close,much less people would die  and yesterday wouldn't have been the highest death count date in months.


--------------------
R.I.P
Zombi3, Blue Helix
Modest Mouse
Zappa
Slothie
That Kid With The face
ShLong
Le Canard
split_by_nine
& Big Worm Forever
Etched in the sands of time in the shroomery and ever so beloved and deeply missed by many :heart:


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: christopera]
    #26879147 - 08/13/20 07:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
I wouldn’t have to be a prick if you could bring some honesty to the discussion.

At least you finally admitted you were making shit up.



He graciously admitted he was wrong once you explained it was counties.  But you're still attacking him for being dishonest and making shit up.  :shrug:


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26879183 - 08/13/20 08:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)



I think it is interesting how Democrats will attack each other then side up with each other. Republicans do things just a little different. With Republicans its like if they don't like you they shoot you in the back of the head then dump your body in the river :lol: practically. Only the most god fearing types are accepted in the Republican circle but once you are blue they all love each other. As long as they are all white.

Democrats on the other hand accept all races. But a Democrat is never wrong. Never. Ever. If a Democrat was standing under the twin towers like someone built a time machine and a democrat went back in time to 9/11 and was arguing that "actually the wind pushed the towers over not hot jet fuel burning the steel beams until the towers collapsed in on themselves falling straight down but actually planted explosives in the bottoms of the tower went off as the planes hit then the wind pushed the towers over" and as the Democrat was standing the twin World Trade Center tower the two planes crashed into each tower with no explosives going off and no wind pushing the towers over the Democrat would still be arguing as the shit fell on top of him "no way man. There was dynamite going off----------------"

Honestly I kind of can't stand either party. One party believes "its totally ok to be racist as fuck god fearing close minded hill billy folks as long as we all agree and care about each other in the GOP party then we build America as we see America needs to be and fuck everyone else."

Democrats are more like "we accept all lives and races. We accept chosing and all the liberal policies you want. Free health care. Free education. Free speech. Freedom of racial non bias. Free roads. Social security. Free unemployment. All the things that really matter. All the things that make us totally indifferent to the GOP party. And we will act like totally know it all spoiled brats over it. Abuse the system. Turn on each other. Never admit we are wrong. Elect totally incompetent officials and never admit they make a mistake. Come up with total bullshit science and stick to it no matter how many times we are proven wrong. Despite us believing in equality and individuality and monetary freedom and transparent policies we set no example of it ourselves. We are basically irresponsible spoiled brat intellectuals who live our lives with incompetence and ignorance and vote for someone just because he is Democrat and get high all day and night and never research or educate ourselves on what we are actually doing or voting for and create bogus websites to support our conspiracies which support us removing any Republican who wants to take away our liberal support network. Voting for our guy might as well be like voting for an 8 year old that "knows what he is doing" because he watches Bill Nye the Science Guy and believes it gives him the ability to run his job with experience and observational accuracy that only someone with experience could pull off. The guy doesn't know how to do anything or figure anything his life is just a copy paste verbatim of what someone else wants him to do or say. We never admit to making mistakes or being wrong and you honestly have a better chance of letting a monkey ass racist tyrant run a political position then our candidate."

I mean that sums it up if each party was represented by an honest member saying everything as truthful as it gets

This election is :facepalm: just as fucked as it gets. You can't fuck an election and get it a little bit pregnant. That is the analogy I wanted to present. It so fitting of what is up ahead of us


--------------------
:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26879184 - 08/13/20 08:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

It’s a classic Fal move.


--------------------
Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result.

A Dorito is pizza, change my mind.

Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things

I’m sorry it had to be me.


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: qman]
    #26879288 - 08/13/20 09:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
You're really splitting hairs with the lesser of two evils narrative. In fact, many progressives make a very good argument that the D's are much more evil than the R's in this environment. Let me explain the reasoning on that thesis. 




It's not fair to characterize my position as a "narrative" when I haven't even explained any of the specific reasons that I see the Democratic party as the lesser of two evils. If I had some ideological predisposition towards Democrats regardless of policy, then I think you would have a point, but that's not my position at all. The reason I see Democrats as the lesser of two evils comes down to specific policy differences. For example, Democrats tend to be in favor of abortion rights, which I am also in favor of. Republicans tend to be against abortion rights. That's just one example, but I could list some other ones.

Quote:

qman said:
The R's are very transparent with their rhetoric, it's purely supportive of big business, police, military, The Establishment and against anything that benefits the working class.




The thing is, I don't make my decision of which candidate to vote for based off of their rhetoric. I make my decisions based on specific policy suggestions the candidates make while campaigning, and based off of the policies they have supported (or protested) during their political careers. I'm well aware the both Democrats and Republicans are pro-establishment, so I've pretty much already accepted that I'm going to have a pro-establishment president after the next election regardless of who I vote for. That said, there are still specific policies that Democrats support that Republicans tend to adamantly protest such as marijuana decriminalization, abortion rights, LGBT rights, and more. That's where my "lesser of two evils" position comes from. It's not just a narrative for me, and it's not about rhetoric or who's the bigger hypocrite. If we make our democracy about pointing our fingers until we find out who's the bigger hypocrite, there will be no end to it. My politics have nothing to do with rhetoric and everything to do with policy and how those policies impact people's lives (not just American lives, but lives all around the world).

Quote:

qman said:
Here's the ironic thing going forward. If Biden wins, the MSM will give him a free pass on everything that supports The Establishment.  At least with Trump, there was a little bit of accountability. Obama couldn't do any wrong with the MSM and he passed a LOT of horrible legislation without even a bit of scrutiny.



I think it's kind of funny that you actually believe Obama didn't have "even a bit of scrutiny" for the poor policy decisions he made. Plenty of people on all sides of the political spectrum have criticized Obama's policy decisions. Sure, he had his fair share of blind supporters who were behind him no matter what he did (so does every politician), but to suggest that nobody criticized him or his policies is blasphemous. Hell, I voted for Obama and I'd be happy to criticize some of his policy decisions, and I'm sure that there are plenty of people who would be willing to have a civil discussion about that with me. If you really think that nobody had the guts to criticize Obama or whatever, then it sounds to me like you're the one who has some sort of narrative informing your political position.


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


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OfflineNonagon Infinity
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: imachavel]
    #26879303 - 08/13/20 10:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

imachavel said:
What is her stance on the death penalty? Sorry to drag this out but I need to know. Does she have a desire to amend the constitution or not?




I don't know where she stands on the death penalty. Honestly, it's not a terribly important policy issue to me at this point. I'm focused on other issues, so you're asking the wrong guy.

Quote:

imachavel said:
It should not affect your vote of her or not. For me though I am trying to compile a general attitude of every candidate and what they plan to do during their administration.




Yeah, I think that's the wisest way to decide your vote. Look into the issues that are most important to you and see how candidates have behaved in the past and decide whether or not it lines up with your own values. For example, net neutrality was a really important policy issue for me for a wide variety of reasons. Unfortunately, it's a battle we've already lost thanks to Trump's genius decision to appoint a former Verizon lawyer as the head of the FCC, but Kamala Harris wrote a detailed letter to that same FCC head asking him to reconsider his decisions with respect to net neutrality. That issue is really important to me, and I like the way that Harris tried to make a difference with that, so that's a point in her favor in my book. That's just one example of one policy issue, but this is generally how I make my decisions on who to vote for.

Quote:

imachavel said:
Except Trump. That has been easy to figure out he is very firm on his stance and his stance is not necessarily something I support but none the less he has been very clear



Yeah, from my perspective, Trump has been clear enough about his politics that it's really obvious to me that I'm not going to vote for him haha


--------------------
Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door


Edited by Nonagon Infinity (08/13/20 10:03 PM)


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Offlineimachavel
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: Nonagon Infinity] * 1
    #26879413 - 08/13/20 11:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Nonagon Infinity said:

I don't know where she stands on the death penalty. Honestly, it's not a terribly important policy issue to me at this point. I'm focused on other issues, so you're asking the wrong guy.






I like everything you said. Strong words. To me no candidate is above looking into their heart to see how much guts they have about sticking to other issues. I know they are all corrupt and greedy as fuck to get as far as they get to be eligible to be elected into a position of power to begin with.

My main issue is any President that does not have an issue with such policies as prisons and finance of such things and policies regarding prisoners should not be eligible to be President. I hate Trump deeply but he is clear on that he totally 100% supports the death penalty and does not want it removed and if possible would put it as top priority for all states to strongly re enforce it.

I agree some things are of much more immediate concern. Still anyone that wants to take Trump on is asking to get their ass handed to him. He is so manipulative and powerful I almost imagine he would try and amend the constitution to allow himself a 3rd term if possible. Most Presidents are not even that retarded. Or are they? Maybe in private they all want to rewrite the constitution. Trump is very boastful and I am surprised he has not put this on his list of things to do.

On the other hand you have Biden opposing him. I knew of the 2 dementia candidates Biden and Bernie Sanders one would become the next major running party official. I feel any dementia ridden candidate has a very low chance against Trump despite Trump's lowering popularity he is extremely manipulative and uses his press to gain popularity and even his bad press is something he uses to turn towards his advantage. He gains followers by insulting retards that try and expose him and gains popularity while ruining peoples credibility.

Its obviously a game a child could figure out. But a smart child. And voters are not smart children they are retarded children.

So Biden's weak stance on policies like "the death penalty" which many people may overlook during these horrific times of economic distress and pandemic hardship to me signifies even more he is looking for weak minded votes based on him wanting to capture anyone who simply does not like Trump.

While this may be a good move since most voters are as stupid as children if Trump gets even a little bit intellectual and starts pulling policies on old sleepy Joe that he is not prepared for as he cannot remember where he was all morning Trump can turn it around and chew Trump up.

I personally hate Trump. I feel like anybody with half a brain would vote against him. He is a moron. But this is his persona. He is a smart manipulative motherfucker. He gets people to think of him as a child then at the last minute pulls out a lot of shit a smart person would say and wins peoples hearts and minds. Retarded peoples hearts and minds of course.

Then you have Dementia Joe Biden who also wants to win the retard vote but the other side. But retards are easily swayed. Biden is smart enough to know people don't like Trump and that is it. If Trump makes Biden think even a little and Biden is forgetting to spell his own name Biden will lost like 10 million votes. While Democrats act loyal they are not. Republicans are in a sick way. They will vote for their favorite Hitler while Hitler is shoving them in a gas chamber because no blue voter votes anything but blue.

But Biden is fucked if he thinks his own Democrats won't turn on him. So if I were Biden I would have a strong stance on the death penalty.

Not that he cares. Not that it matters. He doesn't give a fuck. He needs to lie like Obama and get ride of a few prisons while keeping hundreds and act like the few he removed are severely part of his master plan while the rest was blocked in Congress or some shit. But these days sleepy Joe ain't half ass lying his way through a decent debate. I see Trump winning and me kicking myself.

:shrug: you know the overconfidence on the left side is the weakness. Real talk man. I hate Trump but he is going to win if Biden just keeps acting like "a good person" expecting it to matter when elections come up. He needs to lie better. He needs to make something up. He needs to pretend like he has a stance on the death penalty. I mean its sad and politics are sad but a candidate like Trump who has an opinion will win against Biden if Biden doesn't.

Trump supports the death penalty. Biden needs to lie and say he doesn't. Even if he does. To be a strong political candidate. Then we can move on to other issues like covid-19 and the economy when he matters. Politics are a sick game but you have to play the game right.

:facepalm: fucking Biden. What an asshole. Don't they have medication for dementia? Is he not taking it? Old man Joe needs his naps while Trump runs the country into the ground.


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:kingcrankey: I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!

:facepalm: I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Registered: 12/18/12
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Re: Kamala Harris gets the veep pick. [Re: christopera]
    #26879470 - 08/14/20 02:00 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
No. You clearly don’t understand how a map like that convinces dunces that they majority of the US voted for Trump when they didn’t. Empty space doesn’t vote, people do.




Yes, that was a whole lotta red empty space. The GOP has no choice but to advocate the dictatorship of empty states. Well that and peckerwoods too. I think even they should be allowed to vote, but there is historical precedence for something like counting them as three-fifths of a person. I would go with that, unless they could prove they're not inbred.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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