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kmn594
Registered: 07/29/20
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Loc: NSW, Australia
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Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences
#26879004 - 08/13/20 06:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Have you had a meaningful psychedelic experience?
We are a group of researchers at the University of Wollongong in Australia conducting research into meaningful psychedelic experiences. We are recruiting participants that have taken psychedelics and as a result have had a transformative/meaningful experience. If this is you, we would appreciate your participation in our survey, which will take approximately 30-40 minutes. More information is provided at the following link, where you can participate if you choose.
https://uow.au1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3Wzh955gi2BzODP
Thank you for considering to participate – I really appreciate it!!
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szubsa
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: kmn594] 2
#26881918 - 08/15/20 04:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I participated in your survey but,considering the nature of your questions, came to the conclusion that you are totally wrong in what you seem to believe about mushrooms.
Why is that so? First, I felt like a patient with mental problems being interrogated by a doctor to find the reason for my problems. I suspect you are one of these guys who wants to cure depressions, anxiety, fear of death by terminal cancer patients etc. with psilocybin. Even though some studies seem to indicate that a certain percentage of their participants lost their depressions or fear of death, I consider this merely a by-product of the experience and not the real nature of mushrooms. Magic mushrooms aren't anti-depressants.
Furthermore I see some inconsistencies in the idea of using magic mushrooms as a tool to cure mental problems. An example: I read that some terminal cancer patients had a spritual experience which made them lose their fear of death. Experiencing the oneness with everything and so on. As a scientist you probably cannot accept that these spiritual experiences are really true. Otherwise you couldn't be in charge, if something higher than you exists. So you must believe that the drug produces hallucinations that trick the patients into believing that there isn't anything to be afraid of. Like doctors don't tell mentally retarded patients that they are retarded but that they are something special, so that they can be in peace with what they are.
I'm using shrooms for over 20 years and truly believe, without a doubt, that they are magical. Meaning they arent't just some kind of a drug that you can administer to a large enough group of participants, ask everybody about their experiences and assume the drug will have the same effect on the rest of the population. Like you would do with a drug against high blood pressure for instance.
Magic isn't democratic, where the majority is considered to be right. It's about the old ways/arts. There's an intelligence with a certain intend behind these experiences. And this intelligence doesn't show everything to everybody. If it thinks you are an asshole (excuse my rudeness but this is often the best way to make something clear)they will not tell you anything. Deep insights aren't just a question of dosage, they are granted. One must work his way up to get them. That's why lots of users don't believe of them as really magical. They talk about heroic doses, which shrooms give them crazy visuals, use them with a myriad of other drugs and so on. These kind of people usually don't get anything meaningful and how many of them you may interview about their experiences, you only get a lot of BS.
About deprssions: Are all depresions the same? And can be cured with the same drug? There are may theories about the cause of depressions. An imbalance in the brain chemicals,inflammation in the brain and so on. What if those claiming to be cured from their depressions weren't actually really ill but only got into a loop of negative thoughts caused by negative experiences in their lifes. Shrooms opened a door to something new, added new information to their neural network, made them think about new things that destroyed the loop and they no longer felt depressed. Curing their depressions would then only be a by-product of their experiences. Magic mushrooms aren't anti-depressants and if you try to use them to help patients you have no idea whose help you're asking. An intelligence that is, in most eyes, highly controversial and politically incorrect.
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NightWqtchman
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: szubsa] 2
#26882378 - 08/15/20 09:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
szubsa said: Magic isn't democratic, where the majority is considered to be right. It's about the old ways/arts. There's an intelligence with a certain intend behind these experiences. And this intelligence doesn't show everything to everybody. If it thinks you are an asshole (excuse my rudeness but this is often the best way to make something clear)they will not tell you anything. Deep insights aren't just a question of dosage, they are granted. One must work his way up to get them. That's why lots of users don't believe of them as really magical. They talk about heroic doses, which shrooms give them crazy visuals, use them with a myriad of other drugs and so on. These kind of people usually don't get anything meaningful and how many of them you may interview about their experiences, you only get a lot of BS.
Made an acct just to say I completely agree.🔥 So glad there are people who know these things, and tell the truth to people who *think* they know.❌
-------------------- There are two kinds of people in this world: Mushroom people, and mold people. Their mycelium looks almost identical. However, one bears fruit , the other does not. (Both kinds of people are contained within you, it's your choice which one you become.)
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Shroomple
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: kmn594]
#26883767 - 08/16/20 05:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hey there. I’m all about research in psychedelics, hope you can help remove the stigma. I’d recommend moving this to a different forum, though. I think this is better suited for the “Experiences” forum. Cheers.
-------------------- Tangle up your twisted tongue, it's shroomple Mesmerize your everyday, it's shroomple Hey hey can't you see? Love is all that you should need Can't you see? Ease your troubled mind Let love seek & let love find, it's shroomple! Ease your weary soul Let love lead & let love flow, it's shroomple
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Shroomple]
#26884011 - 08/16/20 09:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I took the survey, I didn't find it troubling in regards to magic. I mean, how many people are there that actually practice this kind of thing anyway? It's so not on researcher's radar it's almost scary.
In all my life the number of people I've ever met that do magic with shrooms, including myself, is only a handful. I think it's exceedingly uncommon.
Anyway, though it was long-assed it wasn't too bad overall and it might be useful somewhere somehow. Pity it's only 100AU$ gift card though...
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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szubsa
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26884170 - 08/17/20 01:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't do magic either. I guess doing magic would involve much more than just using mushrooms.
What I mean is that mushrooms are magical. According to research Psilocybin turns down our default neural network connections and establish new connections. This new connections offer, at least in my experience, information/knowledge that our sober egos cannot perceive. I think this is something that can be called "magical". Besides using psychedelics there are other ways to receive this information. Like using techniques to get into a trance (often used by African tribes) or ego dissolving meditation techniques known from Asia.
Science is something of the rational mind. Something of our sober intelligence. It's not seen as magic, even though scientist try to achieve the same things magicians of the past tried to achieve. Getting control over the natural world, extend the duration of our lifes and so on.
Science abolished the idea of God or any other powers higher than human intelligence. So the "intelligence" ego dissolving mushrooms bring us into contact with cannot be true but must be hallucinations. Or scientist cannot be in charge of what they are doing but would only be some kind of puppets on a string. I, on the other hand, believe this intelligence does really exist and isn't just some drug induced hallucination.
After all, nearly any scientist believes we are free in the ultimate meaning of "free". That we not only can do what we want, but also can decide what we want. That if I want vanilla ice cream I can decide to want chocolade ice cream instead for instance. But they think of the things that make us want what we want as something dead and unpersonal. Not as a real player in this world. I don't agree.
When it comes to trying to cure mental patients with psilocybin this Intelligence would add something to the healing proces doctors would not be in control of. And not everybody might be able to handle it.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: szubsa]
#26884547 - 08/17/20 09:41 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Saying that mushrooms are magical isn't exactly what I was talking about, sorry I misunderstood your post.
IME mushrooms facilitate/engender states of consciousness that can be extremely useful for all kinds of work. 
Researchers all seem to be focused on what they can extract from psilocybin experiences that result in alterations of social conditioning (ooh, dangerous territory) or processing of autobiographical material otherwise inaccessible (very useful with applications in therapy) or reduction of maladaptive mental fixation (anxiety, PTSD, etc.).
While this is good they miss the bigger picture and the bigger universe out there. But I suppose that's inevitable, at least so far. 
Welcome to the shroomery!
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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szubsa
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26886225 - 08/18/20 07:42 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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A little bit off-topic, but I just found this on DMT Nexus:
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf
With some mushroom varieties/species I think I also identified some kind of Gateway proces. When it starts I "hear" some kind of melody that repeats over and over. Like chanting the same phrase(s)over and over until one gets into an altered state of mind. However, I don't have this will all Cubes or other species.
Edited by szubsa (08/18/20 07:49 AM)
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Honeheke
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: szubsa]
#26887611 - 08/19/20 12:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hi Hi,
Im all for the research as I believe this is the only way we can turn the negative, class A stigma of Psilocybin around and make it available to all people whom choose to reap its rewards.
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Honeheke
Happy little fella

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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: szubsa]
#26887615 - 08/19/20 12:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
szubsa said: A little bit off-topic, but I just found this on DMT Nexus:
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP96-00788R001700210016-5.pdf
With some mushroom varieties/species I think I also identified some kind of Gateway proces. When it starts I "hear" some kind of melody that repeats over and over. Like chanting the same phrase(s)over and over until one gets into an altered state of mind. However, I don't have this will all Cubes or other species.
Woow this document is amazing reading .. Do you think it is legitimate ?
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szubsa
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Honeheke]
#26887799 - 08/19/20 06:03 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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As far as I know it is. After all it's a government website.
Of course one can have doubts about the validity of their theory but at least they didn't dismiss these things as complete nonsense like lots of people automatically and instictively dismiss the idea of psychedlics being more than just some kind of shit we use to get high.
Edited by szubsa (08/19/20 11:17 AM)
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captainkirk1993
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Honeheke]
#26888695 - 08/19/20 03:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is a very interesting read and I'm only a few pages in. Thanks for the link I think I'm going to look into some of this meditation techniques for my own issues with pain and not being able to relax very well.
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szubsa
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: captainkirk1993]
#26889413 - 08/20/20 03:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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This brings us back to my first reply about doctors trying to use psilocybin to cure mental disorders. Personally I don't have any experience with meditation techniques. I only know that, besides psychedelics, there are also other ways to tap into the fountains of hidden knowledge. Transcendental meditation being one of them.
I explain my point with magic mushrooms as an example. Traditional shamans/healers believe diseases are caused by a disturbance between one's own spirit and the spirit world. In order to get any benefits from spiritual/mystical insights from using shrooms one has to integrate these insights into one's personal life. Meaning one has to obey the mushroom spirits, thereby becoming a mushroom worshipper. If you don't obey your teacher, if you don't submit to him, you cannot learn anything from him.
This may not be a problem for someone trying to self-medicate with mushrooms, but I don't believe doctors intend to cure their patients by transforming them into mushroom worshippers. Since the spiritual experiences/insights seem to be essential for the healing proces there doesn't seem to be a way around this.
It's not like with using Aspirin against a headache. Aspirin doesn't produce spiritual experiences and you don't have to become an "Aspirinist" in order to get rid of your headache.
Traditional shamans/healers do not just administer shrooms to their patients, they also believe in these spirits and it is their religion. It's not just something they believe, like some scientists believe that the universe consists for a large part of dark matter while others do not. It's not just something they believe, it's what they are. Like Christianity isn't just something that Christians believe, it's what they are.
The same goes up with meditations. These techniques originate from religious beliefs, not from doctors/scientists. And in order to benefit from them, you have to live by their insights and thereby automatically become a Boeddhist (or something else depending from what belief these meditation techniques originate) Again, becoming a Boeddhist my not be a problem for you, but I'm sure that's not what a doctor, prescribing transcendental meditations to his patients, would have in mind or seems to realize.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: szubsa]
#26890039 - 08/20/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You don't have to worship the mushroom to benefit from its healing potential. You merely have to engage in a partnership with it, and SFAIK that doesn't even involve selling your soul. 
Some of the effects, like lifting depression (or for me resetting BP 2 to the top of the cycle) are almost automatic.
Others, like resolving autobiographical issues, come from enhance recall of buried memories, also almost automatic.
Even others, like altering your social conditioning barriers, result from the enhanced perspective it gives you - the ability to see yourself and your hangups from a distance, and thus become able to break them.
But of course this is only my opinion based on decades of experience with mushrooms over a huge number of trips, and a lot of work in the spirit realm as well...
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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szubsa
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26891036 - 08/21/20 03:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Perhaps I shouldn't have used the term "worshipping". This is quite a strong term.
Mushrooms change your view of the world. No matter if this happens automatically or fron an enhanced perspective or recall of buried memories. Once your opinions have changed you will defend them when discussing these matters with others. You "fight" for them, thereby serving them. You serve a new master and this new master is not the doctor treating you.
The mental effects, the closed eye visuals/visions, of psilocybin seem to be essential for the treatment. That's why the study participants wear blindfolds, to avoid getting distracted by visual impressions. A picture of a blindfolded participant from John Hopkins:
https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/
The experience teaches something the doctor cannot teach and has no influence on.
Like you, I also used shroms for many years and had hundreds of trips. Each trip is like a small piece of a puzzle and once you put those pieces together you start seeing a larger picture. This larger picture could become some kind of a religion/belief system and could lead to worshipping the mushroom. Worshipping the mushroom to keep on your path, to block opposite thoughts and thereby preventing wondering off in other directions. Worshipping the mushroom as your guide in this world.
Like peyote eaters may worship the peyote cactus or Boeddhists worshipping (I don't know if this is the proper term for Boeddhists) the content of their meditation visions that turned them into Boeddhists and serve them as a guide/touchstone through their lifes.
Humans are animals that get captured by ideas and, once they believe in these ideas, these ideas get an administrative function in their heads and the individual believing in them has no choice but to obey them. Ideas come through the gateways, as described in the CIA-document (through people knowing how to open them), gateway drugs (psychedelics) or are just products of human intelligence driven by animalistic desires. Everybody believes something, serves something and, in one way or another, worships something.
Edited by szubsa (08/21/20 05:32 AM)
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lowbrow
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: kmn594]
#26891220 - 08/21/20 07:51 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
kmn594 said: Have you had a meaningful psychedelic experience?
We are a group of researchers at the University of Wollongong in Australia conducting research into meaningful psychedelic experiences. We are recruiting participants that have taken psychedelics and as a result have had a transformative/meaningful experience. If this is you, we would appreciate your participation in our survey, which will take approximately 30-40 minutes. More information is provided at the following link, where you can participate if you choose.
https://uow.au1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_3Wzh955gi2BzODP
Thank you for considering to participate – I really appreciate it!! 
I had a clairavoyant experience a couple of times. I used the first one as my profound trip, your survey was not equipped to handle it.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: szubsa]
#26891716 - 08/21/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
szubsa said: The experience teaches something the doctor cannot teach and has no influence on.
Yeah, that's a better way to put it.
Quote:
szubsa said: Like you, I also used shroms for many years and had hundreds of trips. Each trip is like a small piece of a puzzle and once you put those pieces together you start seeing a larger picture. This larger picture could become some kind of a religion/belief system and could lead to worshipping the mushroom. Worshipping the mushroom to keep on your path, to block opposite thoughts and thereby preventing wondering off in other directions. Worshipping the mushroom as your guide in this world.
My experience is considerably different than that. I never put pieces together from many trips, I just had trips that consistently illuminated that so-called larger picture, to where that became my consistent experience. Today, after over a thousand trips, I confidently expect any high-dose trip to deliver me straight to the realm known generally as hyperspace, with all the amazing stuff that goes along with it, and with an enhanced consistent connection to a larger reality that informs my daily thinking. 
There was no option in the survey for any of this, so I ended up fabricating an imaginary "profound trip" in order to be able to describe the changes that tripping in general brings. Their thing might be "one and done" but that's not how this stuff works IME.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (08/21/20 01:09 PM)
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Terhathum

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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: NightWqtchman]
#26892159 - 08/21/20 05:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well stated. Agreed!
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szubsa
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Terhathum]
#26892749 - 08/22/20 01:17 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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All my trips are more like lessons in school and are more about specific subjects.
I drink the tea ( I always make a tea) and lie down, awaiting what's coming. While waiting random thoughts cross my mind and, when it finally starts working, it stops at one particular thought and makes a story/lesson from it. Not all thoughts seem suitable for making something of them. To me it appears as if it intentionally picks out (the)one that's most suitable.
An example of such a lesson (in short): I somehow was thinking about being free and in charge (I don't exactly remember how I got to this thoughts). It told me that the idea of humans being free and in charge was nothing but an illusion altogether.
It showed me how we, centuries ago, didn't believed to be free. We believed there was a god and that we had to follow his rules, laws and commandments. If not, this god would punish us.
Then came modern science telling us that God doesn't exist and that we are free to do whatever we want and can. Not bound by God's rules we are free and can use science and technology to build a better world that better fits our needs and desires and become the masters of this world. And perhaps even the whole universe.
We believed that and started building. The more we built, the more rules and specific behavior our buildings required from us. More and more taking away our personal freedom. We build dangerous things like chemical and nuclear plants for instance. And to keep all dangerous things under control we have to control our own behavior.
It showed me some industrial park that looked like a large monstrous entity. It feeds us, we depend on it for our survival, we cannot longer live without it and in return have to obey its rules and commandments. We became the servants of our own buildings. There's no way back.
If we refuse, it will take revenge on us. Think about the Beirut blast where they didn't follow the rules of proper storage of ammonium nitrate. So instead of being God's servants we now are the servants of something else. Still not free and in charge of us and the world. Being free and in charge is a logical impossibility and will never happen. The only freedom we have is to choose whose servant we want to be. Nothing in this world is for free. If we take something, we have to give something back in return.
Edited by szubsa (08/22/20 03:54 AM)
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Magenta
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: kmn594]
#26893198 - 08/22/20 09:53 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Lotsa noobs make an appearance all of a sudden during a promotion. Gotta wonder who the fuck is pulling the strings.
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szubsa
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Magenta]
#26893221 - 08/22/20 10:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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if you mean me, nobody is pulling my strings. I'm new in this forum, but not new to mushrooms. Since I'm growing them a long time, saw a lot of grows and heard all questions and the answers to them over and over, in time I lost interest in reading all these posts or participating in forums.
I do however post on Reddit for quite some time:
https://www.reddit.com/user/szubsa
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jimi



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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: kmn594]
#26894254 - 08/22/20 08:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok, since the op is gone, here's another example of what's going on now that you guys can do:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT03537014
You'll see these MDMA ones popping up a lot more soon.
And the psilocybin ones, some are recruiting now:
https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/results?cond=&term=Psilocybin&cntry=&state=&city=&dist=#
Edited by jimi (08/26/20 02:09 PM)
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: jimi]
#26894337 - 08/22/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The OP hasn't been back since the original post. But in the survey there is contact info.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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lowbrow
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: jimi]
#26894504 - 08/22/20 10:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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This is a site-wide thread, not just OTD.
-------------------- Amanita86 said: Sui is trying to mod right now. Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..
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Honeheke
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: captainkirk1993]
#26894731 - 08/23/20 03:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
captainkirk1993 said: This is a very interesting read and I'm only a few pages in. Thanks for the link I think I'm going to look into some of this meditation techniques for my own issues with pain and not being able to relax very well.
I agree I read through the document and was really impressed how it was layed out from basic mechanisms through to outer body experiences.
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dothedew69
Relearning



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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Honeheke]
#26894821 - 08/23/20 06:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Alright after reading so many long posts it seems like there’s a negative attitude towards using Psilocybe for medicinal/therapeutic purposes. I literally started growing again just for that reason. Years ago I get mushrooms just because I wanted to trip, that’s it. But what happened I learned so much about myself, how I relate to the world, and my connection to everyone. I was a super shy person, suffered from extreme anxiety. After doing a lot of mushrooms I reflected on my issues and I’m way better off (more social, less depressed, and it helped reduce my anxiety a lot). Again I’m out on a 6 week leave due to sever anxiety, panic, and terror. I’m growing again to defeat it. Now don’t blast me for it, I have an AMAZING psychiatrist and therapist. I so cognitive behavioral therapy and group therapy (CBT) three times a week. Think about it, the way we think effects how we feel, our physical condition, and everything About who we are. You can fix illness simply with correcting your thought process. So what do mushrooms do for me? It allows me to think, it destroys my ego and in essence it’s a form of CBT therapy. I’m seriously curious about asking my therapist if we can do a session while I’m on Psilocybe. These studies will help so many people out. Don’t knock it because it may kill the spirituality of mushrooms and old time traditions. There’s millions of people who can benefit from this without having to take 8mg klonopin, lexapro, Zoloft, you pick any ssri, and the list of medications goes on and on (yes I take a shit ton of medications right now to feel normal). Mushrooms are a gift, they have REAL MEDICINAL VALUE. Study on researches, study on. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
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szubsa
Stranger
Registered: 08/15/20
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: dothedew69]
#26895154 - 08/23/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's not about killing the spirituality of mushrooms or breaking with old time traditions. I don't even believe you can kill the spirituality.
In your casw, you say you used them and it helped you. So I guess there's no problem when it comes to you.
But not everybody's the same. People report to have had life changing experiences. Doctors want to cure their patients from mental disorders, they don't want to change their belief system. I think they would regard this as unwanted side effects.
Personally I don't believe mushrooms teached my something harmful or bad, but the people you relate with might no longer understand what you are talking about and people may lose a lot of their friends,for instance. If your spiritual experiences had a deep impact on you and you keep talking about them that could irritate a lot of people.
I'm using mushrooms for over 20 years and they still have something new to teach me. You never reach a point where you know everything. And a lot of things I believed I understood years ago were misinterpretations of my earlier experiences. So, at least for some time, I was wrong about certain things. These things can fuck up your life. Not for everybody but that may depend on people's character. Some people get obsessed with things while others don't.
What I mean is that the spiritual aspect is the main effect of magic mushrooms, while positive effects on depressions are the side effect. Magic mushrooms teach us things and information is spirit. Unlike animals, that never change their behavior over thousands of years, humans are taken over by ideas/spirits whose servants they become. And shrooms can open doors to either good or bad ideas/spirits.
I don't believe these doctors really understand shrooms/psilocybin like shamans know the psychedelics they use. And I doubt they know what they are really getting into. And, with eventually many thousands of patients, who knows what will happen.
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Honeheke
Happy little fella

Registered: 06/11/19
Posts: 39
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: dothedew69]
#26895701 - 08/23/20 04:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
dothedew69 said: Alright after reading so many long posts it seems like there’s a negative attitude towards using Psilocybe for medicinal/therapeutic purposes. I literally started growing again just for that reason. Years ago I get mushrooms just because I wanted to trip, that’s it. But what happened I learned so much about myself, how I relate to the world, and my connection to everyone. I was a super shy person, suffered from extreme anxiety. After doing a lot of mushrooms I reflected on my issues and I’m way better off (more social, less depressed, and it helped reduce my anxiety a lot). Again I’m out on a 6 week leave due to sever anxiety, panic, and terror. I’m growing again to defeat it. Now don’t blast me for it, I have an AMAZING psychiatrist and therapist. I so cognitive behavioral therapy and group therapy (CBT) three times a week. Think about it, the way we think effects how we feel, our physical condition, and everything About who we are. You can fix illness simply with correcting your thought process. So what do mushrooms do for me? It allows me to think, it destroys my ego and in essence it’s a form of CBT therapy. I’m seriously curious about asking my therapist if we can do a session while I’m on Psilocybe. These studies will help so many people out. Don’t knock it because it may kill the spirituality of mushrooms and old time traditions. There’s millions of people who can benefit from this without having to take 8mg klonopin, lexapro, Zoloft, you pick any ssri, and the list of medications goes on and on (yes I take a shit ton of medications right now to feel normal). Mushrooms are a gift, they have REAL MEDICINAL VALUE. Study on researches, study on. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Hey dothedew,
I really like your post.
My next door neighbour is a psychologist and when I talk with her, she always goes back to the fact that mushrooms on their own are one thing but when combined with a process that encompasses teachings on mushrooms and without mushrooms is where the real benefits lye.
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Clownologist
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/20
Posts: 22
Last seen: 8 months, 12 days
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: szubsa]
#26896445 - 08/24/20 05:49 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I was going to participate in the survey then it dawned on me, a "real" scientist would put themselves through the experience while carefully and methodically documenting the experience from an inquisitive and scientifically trained perspective.
But you really.. REALLY!... lost me when your scientific study asked my gender, and there were more than two acceptable answers.
If you have no respect for the field of science, then I cannot bring myself to participate.
Regards.
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dothedew69
Relearning



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 624
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Honeheke]
#26898814 - 08/25/20 01:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Honeheke said:
Quote:
dothedew69 said: Alright after reading so many long posts it seems like there’s a negative attitude towards using Psilocybe for medicinal/therapeutic purposes. I literally started growing again just for that reason. Years ago I get mushrooms just because I wanted to trip, that’s it. But what happened I learned so much about myself, how I relate to the world, and my connection to everyone. I was a super shy person, suffered from extreme anxiety. After doing a lot of mushrooms I reflected on my issues and I’m way better off (more social, less depressed, and it helped reduce my anxiety a lot). Again I’m out on a 6 week leave due to sever anxiety, panic, and terror. I’m growing again to defeat it. Now don’t blast me for it, I have an AMAZING psychiatrist and therapist. I so cognitive behavioral therapy and group therapy (CBT) three times a week. Think about it, the way we think effects how we feel, our physical condition, and everything About who we are. You can fix illness simply with correcting your thought process. So what do mushrooms do for me? It allows me to think, it destroys my ego and in essence it’s a form of CBT therapy. I’m seriously curious about asking my therapist if we can do a session while I’m on Psilocybe. These studies will help so many people out. Don’t knock it because it may kill the spirituality of mushrooms and old time traditions. There’s millions of people who can benefit from this without having to take 8mg klonopin, lexapro, Zoloft, you pick any ssri, and the list of medications goes on and on (yes I take a shit ton of medications right now to feel normal). Mushrooms are a gift, they have REAL MEDICINAL VALUE. Study on researches, study on. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Hey dothedew,
I really like your post.
My next door neighbour is a psychologist and when I talk with her, she always goes back to the fact that mushrooms on their own are one thing but when combined with a process that encompasses teachings on mushrooms and without mushrooms is where the real benefits lye.
Thank you, I know a lot of medical professionals are getting curious about Psilocybe again and for good reasons. So many of these outlawed medications could have tremendous benefits to people in need. The key thing is testing, designing the proper treatment, it’s science it takes time and people to work with to establish procedures. I will never shy away from my use but I believe in my heart that it helps me medicinally. Along with my actual cognitive behavioral therapy and my psychiatrist I believe I will beat my demons. I’ve never been a visual tripper. By nature I’m an extremely deep thinker (half my problem) so it just opens my eyes to understanding myself and who I am. Face my fears and question why do I fear them in the first place. Don’t legalize for daily use but please god allow trained medical professionals use this for medicine to treated people with severe mental illness.
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Ice9
3X Ban Lotto Champion



Registered: 03/20/14
Posts: 11,232
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: dothedew69]
#26904522 - 08/28/20 04:04 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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I made a post in this thread a while back that appears to have been deleted, unless I am mistaken. I was asking about the inherent bias one is likely to get due to self-selection of respondents on this topic from a site like this and how one statistically justifies that in the methodology. I feel this is fair question as the respondents are likely only or mostly to be those with positive experiences that helped then change some aspect of their life (and how do you prove a self-reported change is not exaggerated or an outright lie. especially from a group that clearly favors legalization in any form.
An answer to this question would be beneficial, I have copied this to word and will also directly email the PI of the study to see what he has to say on the topics I brought up.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Ice9]
#26905792 - 08/29/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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For sure, there are clear limitations to the study results due to participant selection. It's just something to bear in mind when interpreting the data. One might say something like: "Of regular users, XX% report an experience like this, with this particular characteristic etc."
Stated differently, the results may not be applicable to one-time users, or drug naive individuals, but they may describe the experiences of regular users, which may be valuable.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: badchad]
#26905905 - 08/29/20 11:55 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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The survey is however oriented toward the "one and done" philosophy. God forbid people would want to dose repeatedly.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Honeheke
Happy little fella

Registered: 06/11/19
Posts: 39
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: dothedew69]
#26907085 - 08/30/20 04:16 AM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
dothedew69 said:
Quote:
Honeheke said:
Quote:
dothedew69 said: Alright after reading so many long posts it seems like there’s a negative attitude towards using Psilocybe for medicinal/therapeutic purposes. I literally started growing again just for that reason. Years ago I get mushrooms just because I wanted to trip, that’s it. But what happened I learned so much about myself, how I relate to the world, and my connection to everyone. I was a super shy person, suffered from extreme anxiety. After doing a lot of mushrooms I reflected on my issues and I’m way better off (more social, less depressed, and it helped reduce my anxiety a lot). Again I’m out on a 6 week leave due to sever anxiety, panic, and terror. I’m growing again to defeat it. Now don’t blast me for it, I have an AMAZING psychiatrist and therapist. I so cognitive behavioral therapy and group therapy (CBT) three times a week. Think about it, the way we think effects how we feel, our physical condition, and everything About who we are. You can fix illness simply with correcting your thought process. So what do mushrooms do for me? It allows me to think, it destroys my ego and in essence it’s a form of CBT therapy. I’m seriously curious about asking my therapist if we can do a session while I’m on Psilocybe. These studies will help so many people out. Don’t knock it because it may kill the spirituality of mushrooms and old time traditions. There’s millions of people who can benefit from this without having to take 8mg klonopin, lexapro, Zoloft, you pick any ssri, and the list of medications goes on and on (yes I take a shit ton of medications right now to feel normal). Mushrooms are a gift, they have REAL MEDICINAL VALUE. Study on researches, study on. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Hey dothedew,
I really like your post.
My next door neighbour is a psychologist and when I talk with her, she always goes back to the fact that mushrooms on their own are one thing but when combined with a process that encompasses teachings on mushrooms and without mushrooms is where the real benefits lye.
Thank you, I know a lot of medical professionals are getting curious about Psilocybe again and for good reasons. So many of these outlawed medications could have tremendous benefits to people in need. The key thing is testing, designing the proper treatment, it’s science it takes time and people to work with to establish procedures. I will never shy away from my use but I believe in my heart that it helps me medicinally. Along with my actual cognitive behavioral therapy and my psychiatrist I believe I will beat my demons. I’ve never been a visual tripper. By nature I’m an extremely deep thinker (half my problem) so it just opens my eyes to understanding myself and who I am. Face my fears and question why do I fear them in the first place. Don’t legalize for daily use but please god allow trained medical professionals use this for medicine to treated people with severe mental illness.
Hey dothedew ... When I think about it, I believe that legalizing is a way to make drugs safe, backed by education. I absolutely agree that there is soo much to benefit from this gift from mother nature.
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Galaxytripper
ExpertNovice


Registered: 09/08/13
Posts: 362
Loc: Pacific NorthWest
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26907857 - 08/30/20 01:03 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah. Good points. Scientists try to organize the shit out of everything, to homogenize and rationalize, reduce and formularize it. This is not a formula. It's magic. Hence magic mushrooms. The mushroom experience goes beyond the rational mind and opens up the heart chakra so that you are open to intuition and then insights can come flooding in.
Scientists try to understand everything by being apart from it. Shroomers do so by being at one with it. You need openness. Step one, dear scientists. Try magic mushrooms, then talk, and quit looking at everything like it's an object. They count everything physical in room but don't see or even recognize the elephant in the room - their own consciousness, on which every perception depends, and without which their wouldn't be a science or an external world. Truth vibrations.
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dothedew69
Relearning



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 624
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Galaxytripper]
#26907918 - 08/30/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Galaxytripper said: Yeah. Good points. Scientists try to organize the shit out of everything, to homogenize and rationalize, reduce and formularize it. This is not a formula. It's magic. Hence magic mushrooms. The mushroom experience goes beyond the rational mind and opens up the heart chakra so that you are open to intuition and then insights can come flooding in.
Scientists try to understand everything by being apart from it. Shroomers do so by being at one with it. You need openness. Step one, dear scientists. Try magic mushrooms, then talk, and quit looking at everything like it's an object. They count everything physical in room but don't see or even recognize the elephant in the room - their own consciousness, on which every perception depends, and without which their wouldn't be a science or an external world. Truth vibrations.
I’m not necessarily promoting legalization while I wouldn’t mind it, but I truly do believe that scientists and medical practitioners need to be heavily involved if it were to be used in treatments. I just don’t want my message to be taken wrongly. I believe Psilocybe with proper medical treatment could have amazing benefits. I’ve said it before but in my case of severe social anxiety, panic disorder and phobias, the combination of cognitive behavioral therapy would be amplified by introduction of psilocybin. We all know it’s a safe drug to use, but with improper use it can have undesirable effects. In addition you’re talking quality control. There has to be study to design methods to create proper medical treatment plans it’s just how it works. I’m going out on the limb and trying my own “therapy” which could have completely adverse side effects. Just from my experiences of completely opening my mind to though and destroying my ego, I just see major medicinal purpose to this type of treatment for my mental illness. Again I support the scientists, medical practitioners, and psychologists who are taking the proper precautions to create an actual treatment. It takes time and a lot of research. My views may ruffle some feathers but it’s just how it works. But until then I have my own choice of growing my own and testing on myself.
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NightWqtchman
Interdimensional.



Registered: 08/15/20
Posts: 47
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Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Magenta]
#26937164 - 09/15/20 02:02 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Magenta said: Lotsa noobs make an appearance all of a sudden during a promotion. Gotta wonder who the fuck is pulling the strings. 
I seriously made an account organically on this day lol. Who do you think is pulling the strings?
-------------------- There are two kinds of people in this world: Mushroom people, and mold people. Their mycelium looks almost identical. However, one bears fruit , the other does not. (Both kinds of people are contained within you, it's your choice which one you become.)
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: szubsa]
#26939285 - 09/16/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
szubsa said:I'm using shrooms for over 20 years and truly believe, without a doubt, that they are magical. Meaning they arent't just some kind of a drug that you can administer to a large enough group of participants, ask everybody about their experiences and assume the drug will have the same effect on the rest of the population. Like you would do with a drug against high blood pressure for instance.
Magic isn't democratic, where the majority is considered to be right. It's about the old ways/arts. There's an intelligence with a certain intend behind these experiences. And this intelligence doesn't show everything to everybody. If it thinks you are an asshole (excuse my rudeness but this is often the best way to make something clear)they will not tell you anything. Deep insights aren't just a question of dosage, they are granted. One must work his way up to get them. That's why lots of users don't believe of them as really magical. They talk about heroic doses, which shrooms give them crazy visuals, use them with a myriad of other drugs and so on. These kind of people usually don't get anything meaningful and how many of them you may interview about their experiences, you only get a lot of BS.
About deprssions: Are all depresions the same? And can be cured with the same drug? There are may theories about the cause of depressions. An imbalance in the brain chemicals,inflammation in the brain and so on. What if those claiming to be cured from their depressions weren't actually really ill but only got into a loop of negative thoughts caused by negative experiences in their lifes. Shrooms opened a door to something new, added new information to their neural network, made them think about new things that destroyed the loop and they no longer felt depressed. Curing their depressions would then only be a by-product of their experiences. Magic mushrooms aren't anti-depressants and if you try to use them to help patients you have no idea whose help you're asking. An intelligence that is, in most eyes, highly controversial and politically incorrect.
Generalization in statistics I don't think you understand how generalization works in statistics... Having external validity in a research design doesn't mean it works for everyone like you are implying the study is trying to do. It just means it likely helps for a significant amount of the population. In this case, exponentially more than previous clinical interventions (many psychedelics have shown to be 2x as effective as conventional interventions)
Just imagine if twice as many people were feeling relief from depression... yeah it doesn't cover everyone but it's better than what we had before and the results are promising. No single treatment has ever worked for everyone and clinical psychology openly acknowledges this
I don't mean to be rude but I really wish people like you would actually learn about research methods and design before making broad criticisms that really suggests nothing about the actual study and more about your ignorance surrounding science & statistical validity.
All your arguments apply to traditional antidepressants as well. Take B. Caapi for example, which has the ability to cause complex hallucinations & out of body experiences. It is a MAOI, which are commonly prescribed as antidepressants to treat a variety of mental disorders. Should we apply the same arguments to it since it does both? Drugs are not that simple.
The magic argument You're free to believe that mushrooms truly are magic and transcend science. But, if that is true, science doesn't care. Science is only concerned with what is empirically measurable (or what can be inferred through empirical observations reliably). If mushrooms connect us to some higher power (or whatever you believe), that doesn't exclude them from being observed empirically or being used in a clinical setting - they're not mutually exclusive. They are just mutually misunderstood by each other according to your argument.
As much as I am skeptical towards the "magic" claim, if the claim is right then how are we expected to work with it? It's not reasonable to say we shouldn't work with it at all just because we don't understand that claim (if it transcends human observation it is impossible to understand with certainty). The only method we can approach it from is the scientific one in this case. And moreover if the aspects of it that we can explain (through science) show VERY significant results, why wouldn't we explore that?
The "magic" argument is like saying "There are forces we don't understand so the ones we do understand are wrong". Unless you are trying to say that you do understand these forces... In which case please provide proof. If you cannot provide proof but still know it to be true then don't expect others to realize your truth because clearly that path to that truth is obscured by whatever personal experience you have had that is out of others' reach. Otherwise I will side with the experts on the philosophy of religion and believe that although magic is possible, we currently have no reason to believe it.
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
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Re: Univ. of Wollongong Research Study - Investigating Meaningful Psychedelic Experiences [Re: Clownologist]
#26939313 - 09/16/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Clownologist said: a "real" scientist would put themselves through the experience while carefully and methodically documenting the experience from an inquisitive and scientifically trained perspective.
But you really.. REALLY!... lost me when your scientific study asked my gender, and there were more than two acceptable answers.
A "real" scientist who studies psychedelics would recognize that doing what you suggested would provide inconsistent results since failure to randomly assign subjects, mixed with the low number of participants (this is essentially a case study) would bias the results by completely ruining any chances of having statistical power.
Also the meaning of gender has changed over time (as language has always done when culture changes & science makes new discoveries). Gender nowadays is a way of identifying and sex involves chromosomes, hormones, & other biological markers. The confusion comes from the fact that in the 1900s we used gender interchangeably for both our identity and our sex. However, that was not only a sign of the culture at the time but also science's tendency to ignore subjective experiences and only document things from biological and behavioral perspectives (known as behaviorism). With the cognitive revolution, social sciences acknowledged that identity, although influenced by our biology, is not the same as our biology, and so now we run into the dilemma where people are arguing over the definition of gender as the western zeitgeist catches up with science.
Because alternative gender identities have been oppressed for so long (as a result of sciences that did not acknowledge subjective identity, and the corresponding negative attitudes towards out-group members), I think it is fair that we allow them to determine the definition of gender and refer to what was previously "biological gender" as sex.
Edited by Rhizomorph (09/16/20 03:41 PM)
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