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Blue Helix
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Humidity and temperature controller
#26854793 - 07/31/20 02:10 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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How many people would be interested in making a humidity and temperature controller with build-in override timer for periodic forced misting? It looks like this:

It runs about $275 but it works to very precisely set your fruiting chambers temperature and humidity to within one degree (and if you want you can also adjust the hysteresis too so that the off and on temperatures can be apart several degrees or percent). Unlike most hydrometers this one will accurately measure 96% to 100% relative humidity. There is no soldering. You just strip some wires really. If there is interest, let me know and I'll post the parts list and diagram of the simple wiring.
UPDATE 11/2021 I recently was shown the super inexpensive Inkbird controllers, so if those work, this whole thread is a waste of time and should probably be removed. I cannot vouch for them, though, since I have never owned one
UPDATE 2 - 11/20201 The Inkbird does not work under a realistic heavy misting regime. I protected it from water and still the probe errored out. If you let it dry out, it starts to work again. This is how I figured this cheap unit would work. It's fine for low-misting environments, but the second you start to mist hours at a time to ramp casing moisture, it's nothing but trouble.
Edited by Blue Helix (11/10/21 12:11 PM)
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dfwerydfhg
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: Blue Helix]
#26857188 - 08/01/20 12:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'd definitely be interested. What's the upgrade on the humidity probe that makes it reliable at high RH? As I understand things, it's small temperature fluctuations leading to persistent condensation on the probe that kills the regular ones. Your one heated, or something fancier?
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26857280 - 08/01/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: I'd definitely be interested. What's the upgrade on the humidity probe that makes it reliable at high RH? As I understand things, it's small temperature fluctuations leading to persistent condensation on the probe that kills the regular ones. Your one heated, or something fancier?
To be honest, I did not expect their probe to be any better than any other. I had purchased it with the expectation I would have to replace it periodically, and I sure didn't expect it to work over 95% RH, even though it is very expensive (the humidity probe alone is $57 while the temperature probe is $9). But this probe is different than anything I've seen before. It is a little circuit board with a plastic vented housing over it. The only thing I did was take a small piece of paper towel and wrap the probe's venting taping it in place with single piece of simple scotch tape (only one single layer of paper towel was used). That makes it so that spores or water from the ultrasonic does not enter the housing. That's all I did, and it's been working for well over a decade in many runs. And it appears to accurately tell me higher humanities too. Now the chamber is a constant 78F, so there is no condensation on it. So maybe that is why. I'm not sure. All I know is that that it works and has been working for a long time. And that matters because when you try to mature the fruits, it's best to cut the RH down to 90% to 95% RH, which is a delicate balance to achieve unless the probe really works.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/01/20 01:17 PM)
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: Blue Helix]
#26857303 - 08/01/20 01:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Here is the wiring diagram for the humidity side (the heat side is a mirror image, although I think the heat probe only has two wires, not three if I recall). Like I said, there is no solering involved. You do need a plug to connect the forced timer back into the housing, but you can find that anywhere. If you have ever had a single computer thing fail, you have the plug I assume.

I know this might all look complicated, but it is really NOT complex. And a box like this changes your whole life. I can round up parts for you, or if you want to pay me $50 I can make it and ship it to you. I just want more people to use this thing! Perfect control like that makes growing mushrooms a hell of a lot more fun!
One other thing: the heater is IDENTICALLY connected to its switch. The exact same connections are there because the box is a mirror image of the humidity one. The only differences are (a) the probe has only two wires going to it, and (b) I don't have a periodic heat override. I didn't see a real need for that in growing, although it could be added just the same.
PS - You can also put a GFCI on the input side of the box. They can't fit very well in the box, but they sell GFCI outlets to replace your wall's normal one for like $15 extra at Home Depot. Or you can buy a GFCI that plugs into a normal outlet too for a little more rather than replace the outlet on the wall. I do recommend it, just in case you get water in the box somehow or something. It's just an extra layer of precaution, and everyone should be using GFCI outlets on their chambers anyway to be honest. Those who are not are really taking a very minor risk.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/12/20 03:42 AM)
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: Blue Helix]
#26857365 - 08/01/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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The parts are as follows:
4-Gang outlet box (must be deeper 71-inch one) - $7 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Carlon-4-Gang-71-cu-in-Old-Work-PVC-Electrical-Box-B468R/202077406
Two plug (everyone should have plugs free probably unless you never keep them. If you don't, they'll cost a few bucks I guess) - $10
4-Gang Wall Plate - $3 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-White-4-Gang-Wall-Plate-1-Pack-R62-80412-00W/206661875
Dwyer Humidity Switch (HS-411) - $63.50 Dwyer Humidity Probe (RHP-5N40) - $86.00 https://www.dwyer-inst.com/Product/AirQuality/HumiditySwitches/SeriesHS?Query=HS-411
Dwyer Temperature Switch (TS2-010) with F readout - $46.50 TS-51 temperature probe - $8.50 https://www.dwyer-inst.com/Product/Temperature/Switches/DigitalPanelMount/SeriesTS2
Switch for entire unit with outlet for humidity (or heat) - $11.50 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Decora-15-Amp-Tamper-Resistant-Combo-Switch-and-Outlet-White-R62-T5625-0WS/202027001
Outlet without switch for heat (or humidity) - $1 https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Decora-15-Amp-Residential-Grade-Self-Grounding-Duplex-Outlet-White-R52-05325-0WS/100357024
Wire and some twist caps - $5 (estimated)
So you basically get to decide if you want the heat or humidity to get the two-outlets or the one-outlet. Either way works fine.
Adding that all up I get $215. You probably can figure about $25 for shipping from Dwyer and taxes, so we are up to $240.
PS - The GFCI (which I could not fit in the box because it's too tight in there) is totally optional but would cost $15 for the wall (about) or the external one that you plug in is probably about $25 I guess. I run a red 40W "heat" bulb (any 40W filament bulb would work but the red one isn't to bright) in the bottom of my chamber for heat, and there is often a pool of water right next to it. For peace of mind, I wouldn't run without a GFCI for obvious reasons. It's never tripped, but if it did, it might save my life.
 
UPDATE! I followed this to make a second unit with my original part numbers that worked for me in the past, and it did not work this time. It turns out that Dwyer has changed the HS-311/THC-P and they no longer will work for this purpose (it only can measure below 90% in the latest revision of the switch). The engineers at Dwyer Instruments said one should use the HS-411 and RHP-5N40. These are about $50 more total unfortunately, and I have updated above.
Edited by Blue Helix (12/24/20 04:12 PM)
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: Blue Helix] 1
#26857527 - 08/01/20 04:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I guess I should add this: I didn't use one of these for maybe 10 to 15 years, and if you asked me back then, I'd tell you a half dozen reasons why it was a waste of money. It didn't make sense to me to spend $250 on something I could kind of do with just two timers. I mean why not just put the humidifier on a timer and adjust the fresh air input, right? Yeah, that's what I told myself too. But one day I realized that through all those years I had spent more of my TIME on the crappy solutions than made sense.
Why was I nickle and diming the solution rather than just doing what I knew was needed? I was trying to prove something. I wanted to prove that you can make a solution just as good for two $15 timers (or even less), but in the end, I couldn't prove that. And what that voice in my head was telling me just didn't make sense. Imagine all the time you dick with your chamber trying to match the air flow, temperature, etc. to the specific chamber you made with say a tote. Imagine all those times you got too much or too little water and didn't get that Pan Cyan canopy that you wanted. Now put that all together and you tell me that isn't costing you $250 of your time and in disappointments. If you have been growing for very long and honest with yourself, you can't tell me it's worth all the tinkering just to save yourself the one-time expense of a good temperature/humidity controller. It's not. I promise you it's not.
A heat/humdity controller isn't like a flow hood. A flow hood truly is optional. And it takes a lot of room. And it's even more expensive than a controller (50% at least). This box is as useful as any flow hood, but costs less, doesn't take the room, etc. I think it's one thing that is truly worth the money.
Every grow I have on here in the last 10 years has been using this controller, and the results speak for themselves I think.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/02/20 04:39 AM)
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dfwerydfhg
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: Blue Helix]
#26858363 - 08/02/20 08:15 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks for the details. I never realized those little DIN-mount(?) controllers would fit in a wall plate. Far easier than chopping out a hole in a project box or something.
One minor thing for anyone else following along- the box link above is to a 3-gang box, should be a 4-gang to match the front plate.
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26858506 - 08/02/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: Thanks for the details. I never realized those little DIN-mount(?) controllers would fit in a wall plate. Far easier than chopping out a hole in a project box or something.
One minor thing for anyone else following along- the box link above is to a 3-gang box, should be a 4-gang to match the front plate.
Ooops. I'll fix that. Thanks!
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c10h12n2o
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: Blue Helix]
#26863513 - 08/04/20 09:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks BH!! Stoked to see you around again
--------------------
  C10's Agar Guide + Tips and Tricks | c10's Flow Hood Build Guide "Partial knowledge is more triumphant than complete knowledge; it takes things to be simpler than they are, and so makes its theory more popular and convincing." "Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies" ― Friedrich Nietzsche
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dfwerydfhg
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: c10h12n2o]
#26865107 - 08/05/20 05:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Is there a reason you call for a 2-prong power plug vs a 3-prong? I see the controllers don't have connex for ground, but the outlets do, and presumably some of the stuff one might plug into them will assume a ground is available? My electrical understanding is super rudimentary- can follow a basic schematic but I try to understand the safety stuff before fingers get involved  Also, think something went wrong with your link editing: the links for the box and the wall plate now both go to the box. Obviously anyone with half a brain will figure that out quick. But here's one that'll work: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-White-4-Gang-Wall-Plate-1-Pack-R62-80412-00W/206661875
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26865571 - 08/05/20 09:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: Is there a reason you call for a 2-prong power plug vs a 3-prong? I see the controllers don't have connex for ground, but the outlets do, and presumably some of the stuff one might plug into them will assume a ground is available? My electrical understanding is super rudimentary- can follow a basic schematic but I try to understand the safety stuff before fingers get involved  Also, think something went wrong with your link editing: the links for the box and the wall plate now both go to the box. Obviously anyone with half a brain will figure that out quick. But here's one that'll work: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-White-4-Gang-Wall-Plate-1-Pack-R62-80412-00W/206661875
Damn it! I don't know why I keep making mistakes! I fixed it. Thanks!
The reason I call for a 2-prong power plug is simply because with GFCI grounding doesn't really matter. A GFCI measures the current going to the outlet or device and coming back from it. If the difference is over about 20mA (meaning current is leaking out to ground either into the ground prong or, even if you don't have a ground, anywhere else like say your hands to your bare feet), then the circuit opens until you reset it (that is why it is called a ground fault circuit interrupter). 20mA is a tiny bit of power, and while it won't feel nice, it won't hurt you either.
Ground prongs only really make sense to protect property more than human life anyway. You can get totally fried to a crisp even if you have everything well-grounded because by the time the main circuit breaker blows, you are a dead person. Also grounding really only works if the case is metal so can be grounded. In this case, the box is plastic and most stuff you'd plug into it also won't have a ground, so there isn't anything to really ground. Of course, if you can fit it, it wouldn't hurt to run a ground to the controller, and it might even be a good idea if you don't use a GFCI.
Still, in my opinion you should DEFINITELY be using a GFCI on a mushroom chamber where there is water all over the place next to wall power. I don't mean just for this either, but in general; I recommend the same for fish tanks, bathrooms, kitchens, etc. In my opinion, A GFCI is a no-brainer in this case (and then you can forget about the ground prong).
Here are two common options:
$14 replacement wall outlet (this is slim too so it might actually even fit in the controller box but you'd need two of them). https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-15-Amp-Self-Test-SmartlockPro-Slim-Duplex-GFCI-Outlet-White-R02-GFNT1-0KW/206001533
$14 plug-in GFCI outlet if you don't want to open up the wall. This is what I used just because it was super easy to use even if slightly less sexy than an in-wall outlet: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Wall-Adapter-GFCI-04-00106/303137134
Edited by Blue Helix (12/10/20 11:18 AM)
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dfwerydfhg
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: Blue Helix]
#26871614 - 08/09/20 01:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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For anyone else is following along: the double outlet linked above will work electrically, but it doesn't have the mount point you need to screw the face plate to. I think this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Decora-15-Amp-Residential-Grade-Self-Grounding-Duplex-Outlet-White-R52-05325-0WS/100357024 will work for that.
Also, ignore what I said above about how neat it was that the controllers fit into the wall plate They do need a little hot knife (or dremel, or coping saw) action to expand the hole to fit.
Getting close to having a working unit... looking forward to see how nicely this humidity probe works. It's definitely seems more robust in build quality than the usual dinky ones.
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26874051 - 08/10/20 08:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: For anyone else is following along: the double outlet linked above will work electrically, but it doesn't have the mount point you need to screw the face plate to. I think this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Decora-15-Amp-Residential-Grade-Self-Grounding-Duplex-Outlet-White-R52-05325-0WS/100357024 will work for that.
Also, ignore what I said above about how neat it was that the controllers fit into the wall plate They do need a little hot knife (or dremel, or coping saw) action to expand the hole to fit.
Getting close to having a working unit... looking forward to see how nicely this humidity probe works. It's definitely seems more robust in build quality than the usual dinky ones.
Wow did I expand that hole? I don't even remember doing that. I guess I did, though.
A word of caution about the humidity probe (at least mine): you don't want spores or ultrasonic mist to enter into the housing and land on the circuit board. Just zip-tie a piece of bounty towel or toilet paper around it or something. The mist and spores will still land on the towel and raise the humidity measured, but it won't clog up the holes or, worse, ruin the delicate circuit board in there. I think I learned that the hard way...
Edited by Blue Helix (08/10/20 08:50 PM)
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26874065 - 08/10/20 08:41 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: For anyone else is following along: the double outlet linked above will work electrically, but it doesn't have the mount point you need to screw the face plate to. I think this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Decora-15-Amp-Residential-Grade-Self-Grounding-Duplex-Outlet-White-R52-05325-0WS/100357024 will work for that.
Also, ignore what I said above about how neat it was that the controllers fit into the wall plate They do need a little hot knife (or dremel, or coping saw) action to expand the hole to fit.
Getting close to having a working unit... looking forward to see how nicely this humidity probe works. It's definitely seems more robust in build quality than the usual dinky ones.
Here was my super high-tek solution to the humidity probe thing:

Also note that I believe there is calibration of the temp and humidity probes in the box programming too.
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26874075 - 08/10/20 08:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: For anyone else is following along: the double outlet linked above will work electrically, but it doesn't have the mount point you need to screw the face plate to. I think this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-Decora-15-Amp-Residential-Grade-Self-Grounding-Duplex-Outlet-White-R52-05325-0WS/100357024 will work for that.
Also, ignore what I said above about how neat it was that the controllers fit into the wall plate They do need a little hot knife (or dremel, or coping saw) action to expand the hole to fit.
Getting close to having a working unit... looking forward to see how nicely this humidity probe works. It's definitely seems more robust in build quality than the usual dinky ones.
Hey for some stupid reason I have five extra timers like the one I used in my unit (guess I originally bought six for back before I had the controller). If you'd like one, I'll let one go for shipping basically. I'd just like to see one put to use rather than taking space in my electronic junk drawer. PM me if you want it.
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dfwerydfhg
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: Blue Helix]
#26875335 - 08/11/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yep you mentioned the paper towel trick somewhere earlier. I'll do that or micropore or something to keep the crap out. Looks like you should have upgraded to stainless shelves!
Thanks for the timer offer, I'd be all over it but I've already got a couple sitting around too.
For anyone like me that doesn't fancy the cord surgery and electrical tape to get the timer integrated: I'm planning on plugging it into the spare side of the double outlet (breaking the tab between the outlets so they're independent), then running a cord from the timer outlet back into the box, and connecting the hot to the humidifier plug. If I've thought through this right, if the switch is off but the timer is on, the timer will energize the plug. Same deal for the opposite situation. But if both are off then there's no juice to the plug. Plus as a bonus it'll look super goofy with the timer plugged into the box while sending its outlet right back in there.
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26876185 - 08/12/20 01:20 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: Yep you mentioned the paper towel trick somewhere earlier. I'll do that or micropore or something to keep the crap out. Looks like you should have upgraded to stainless shelves!
Thanks for the timer offer, I'd be all over it but I've already got a couple sitting around too.
For anyone like me that doesn't fancy the cord surgery and electrical tape to get the timer integrated: I'm planning on plugging it into the spare side of the double outlet (breaking the tab between the outlets so they're independent), then running a cord from the timer outlet back into the box, and connecting the hot to the humidifier plug. If I've thought through this right, if the switch is off but the timer is on, the timer will energize the plug. Same deal for the opposite situation. But if both are off then there's no juice to the plug. Plus as a bonus it'll look super goofy with the timer plugged into the box while sending its outlet right back in there.
Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: Yep you mentioned the paper towel trick somewhere earlier. I'll do that or micropore or something to keep the crap out. Looks like you should have upgraded to stainless shelves!
Thanks for the timer offer, I'd be all over it but I've already got a couple sitting around too.
For anyone like me that doesn't fancy the cord surgery and electrical tape to get the timer integrated: I'm planning on plugging it into the spare side of the double outlet (breaking the tab between the outlets so they're independent), then running a cord from the timer outlet back into the box, and connecting the hot to the humidifier plug. If I've thought through this right, if the switch is off but the timer is on, the timer will energize the plug. Same deal for the opposite situation. But if both are off then there's no juice to the plug. Plus as a bonus it'll look super goofy with the timer plugged into the box while sending its outlet right back in there.
DAMN IT!!! I didn't show the final wiring diagram!!! Stupid me! Shit like this pisses me off so bad! Okay, below is the fixed diagram (and I changed the old one above too):

It's a TINY change, so hear me out here. You know pins 9, 10, and 11 form a single pole, double-throw relay switch with pin 10 being the center pole (and being thrown to either pin 9 or 11). So I switched the wires going to pins 10 and 11 from the old wiring diagram (so now the humidifier's outlet is on pin 10 and pin 11 is hot). Then I connected the timer's output hot to pin 9. If you think about it, that works too. This means if the humidity switch is ON, 10 connects to 11 (like before), and the humidifier turns ON. If the humidity switch is OFF, then pins 9 and 10 are connected, meaning the timer's output goes to the humidifier (as an override when the switch is off). In my honest opinion, you should make the same change.
Okay, so why didn't I do it your way?
Well, the way you did it came to mind first, but I was afraid to merge two hots that could both be on like that. I was fearful that the wall power might have a slightly higher voltage or, far worse, somehow be out of phase with respect to the timer's output. I theorized such a scheme might ruin the timer by pushing current into the output side of it when both the humidity switch and the timer were on at the same time. I'm glad to hear nothing like that happened, and besides the timer is probably protected against stuff like that given motors and the like have pretty serious back EMFs. Just in case, though, I assume you have tried them both on, right?
But as for plugging the timer into the spare outlet (and breaking the tab) - I like that idea! I didn't even think of it since my timer blocks the other outlet. Now I might have been able to plug in two those things that allow you to hook up a ground even if your plug doesn't support it as spacers so the bulky timer didn't block the other outlet, but that would just start to look too hideous to me.
Can you snap a picture of your finished unit? I'd like to see your timer plugged in that way! Sounds like a pretty wonderful shortcut to me!
PS - I do distinctly remember using the Dremel now to make those holes bigger and the corners at almost right angles so you can't see the hole with the units' face plates. Sorry but it slipped my memory at first.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/12/20 04:04 AM)
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dfwerydfhg
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: Blue Helix]
#26876861 - 08/12/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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That's a much better way to wire it. I half wondered if there'd be any problems with the double hot setup, but I'm far too ignorant of electrical matters to judge properly. I'll do it your way!
Mine's not completed yet, still waiting on the box. I'll be sure to snap a pic (inside and out) when it's done.
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dfwerydfhg
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26878480 - 08/13/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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To help out the next builder, here's my attempt at a wiring diagram. I think it's consistent with the discussion above...

Challenge for the next builder: incorporate a GFCI nicely
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Blue Helix
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Re: Humidity and temperature controller [Re: dfwerydfhg]
#26879388 - 08/13/20 11:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
dfwerydfhg said: To help out the next builder, here's my attempt at a wiring diagram. I think it's consistent with the discussion above...

Challenge for the next builder: incorporate a GFCI nicely 
LOVE IT! I'd like to snag that if you don't mind. It doesn't show the two probes, but I don't think you need to do that. That is a fixed wiring per the instructions I think.
I don't mind the GFCI in the plug to the wall. Rooms AC units often do it that way as do hair driers and many other appliances. It's no big deal to have it there because you can't see it anyway and there is zero wiring if you use the one I showed above. To put two of them inside the box would be wasteful really anyway.
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