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dothedew69
Relearning



Registered: 08/27/08
Posts: 624
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: Blue Helix]
#26891604 - 08/21/20 11:50 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Looks great, I just ordered all the parts on Amazon. Now I realize you can control the speed by the power supply but do you think you can put a dimmer switch in the mix and control the rpm that way? I may try it out, little more research to see if I can made something. Could swap it out with a higher rpm motor and have the ability to break it up real well if there are no contams and you plan on using most of the lc. Going to be doing lc and agar, I need stuff to keep me occupied for 6 weeks “vacation”
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Blue Helix
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Registered: 02/02/03
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: dothedew69]
#26892464 - 08/21/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
dothedew69 said: Looks great, I just ordered all the parts on Amazon. Now I realize you can control the speed by the power supply but do you think you can put a dimmer switch in the mix and control the rpm that way? I may try it out, little more research to see if I can made something. Could swap it out with a higher rpm motor and have the ability to break it up real well if there are no contams and you plan on using most of the lc. Going to be doing lc and agar, I need stuff to keep me occupied for 6 weeks “vacation”
You definitely can put a variable voltage supply on it. I'm not sure going super high to blend it matters too much, though. You can always just shake it before you draw it. At 24V that one maxes out at 300 RPM, which is plenty fast in my opinion. But you might want to get one that is faster and use an even lower voltage most of the time (say 3V or something like that). I've not looked at variable supplies, but I'm sure there are a million of them on Amazon and eBay. Stuff like that is super easy to find.
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Blue Helix
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: dothedew69]
#26892523 - 08/21/20 09:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
dothedew69 said: Looks great, I just ordered all the parts on Amazon. Now I realize you can control the speed by the power supply but do you think you can put a dimmer switch in the mix and control the rpm that way? I may try it out, little more research to see if I can made something. Could swap it out with a higher rpm motor and have the ability to break it up real well if there are no contams and you plan on using most of the lc. Going to be doing lc and agar, I need stuff to keep me occupied for 6 weeks “vacation”
Because the power requirements are super tiny, you can also just put a variable resistor inline with the motor and control the voltage that way too. That's what I'd do if I wanted to do it. You might need to run some numbers to know what size for the resistor. I know this motor only takes about 30mA at 9V, so that gives you an idea of the ballpark of what size you need. I'd assume a 0 to 1K-ohm would work fine.
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: Blue Helix]
#26892555 - 08/21/20 09:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Magnetic stir plates are all of $20 on Amazon with speed control and work absolutely fine. Why bother with this from an objective perspective?
I just checked and the one I have been using has gone up to $29 USD but come on. For the time spent putzing around on stuff like this a person could have stocked shelves or mowed lawns and have themselves something made decently WITH speed control.
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Blue Helix
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: starbones] 1
#26892582 - 08/21/20 10:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: Magnetic stir plates are all of $20 on Amazon with speed control and work absolutely fine. Why bother with this from an objective perspective?
I just checked and the one I have been using has gone up to $29 USD but come on. For the time spent putzing around on stuff like this a person could have stocked shelves or mowed lawns and have themselves something made decently WITH speed control.
Wow, this is strange. People keep reasking the same questions over and over and over. Don't they read anything I write? Okay, this is the LAST FUCKING TIME I say this. After this post, I will stop replying.
The same question I've answered like fifteen times: "Why not buy the super cheap ones like this one? if they only cost $29 bucks?"
https://www.amazon.com/Magnetic-stirrer-magnetic-Stirring-Capacity/dp/B072K24X5P/
Answer: Because they are total shit. I actually bought two different ones on eBay direct from China (including the one in the Amazon above), and they were so bad that I threw them in the trash. First, they operated WAY too fast, and that alone is a reason why your LCs won't work that well. And why do they operate fast? Open them up LIKE I DID and you'll see why: they use a PC fan motor or something very similar. Two problems: (a) those motors are not designed for ANY load and you are loading them down with this, and (b) they cannot turn at 150 RPM or thereabouts because they are direct drive (no gears). You might get them down to 400 RPM on a good day, but since the motor wasn't designed to operate that speed, it'll last you all of a few months.
It's funny how people assume, for some odd reason, that I would not have thought about this carefully before I posted. Have you even seen the stuff I post? I guess not. Believe me, I can do anything you can a lot cheaper. I'm obsessed with price, not because money is a problem for me but because it's a game. So sure you can buy the shit ones on Amazon that might last you a year and turn your LC too fast, or you can sit down all of 10 minutes and make one yourself. That's the point of this thread: to describe how to make one that isn't shit and blend your LC into oblivion.
Now is it possible that someone is selling one that isn't shit that is cheap (as it should be)? COURSE IT IS, and if you know who makes one that operates around 150 RPM and costs $20, please let me know. I couldn't find one like that, but I haven't tried every cheap piece of shit coming out of China. If you do find one, I will delete this entire thread IMMEDIATELY, but you still haven't so I won't delete it.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/21/20 10:13 PM)
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Blue Helix
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: Blue Helix]
#26892759 - 08/22/20 01:33 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It has come to my attention that at this point, this thread is useless. Essentially people are just trolling me, and getting a kick out of my reaction. Toward that end and because I'm such a nice guy, let me provide one last absurd post for the enjoyment of the trolls, okay?
While I'm glad I can provide some meager level of entertainment to you, I actually find it kind of annoying and, ultimately, boring personally. If someone would like to message me with an alternative commercial magnetic stirrer that is inexpensive (say less than $20) and doesn't spin over say 200 RPM, I would be greatly appreciative, but I somehow doubt that will happen (in the same way I doubt anyone reading this has achieved 320% biological efficiency as I have). I'm out of here.
*mic drop*
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dirtybirdx
getting better

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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: Blue Helix]
#26892842 - 08/22/20 03:06 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thanks Blue, I love this so much.
I really geek out on my lab and lab equipment, even though it’s not much.
I’m totally doing this. I’ll probably find a different base for it but I love the simplicity.
Only thing is, I’m not into LC yet.
I think your tek will push me over the edge, plus I want those faster jar colonization times 😋
Hmm now to crash course LC/LI.
-------------------- Need help?

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lovepotion
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: Blue Helix]
#26892849 - 08/22/20 03:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I really appreciate this thread, and I apologize if my first reply felt trollish. I was actually being entirely sincere when I said I love how you utilize hot glue, however I can see now how that could have been interpreted as pretentious or sarcastic. I know better than most that you are a master of the craft, far exceeding what many others will ever accomplish.
The entire point in him posting this was to share a new discovery, and some knowledge that only years and years of careful experimenting and observing earns. So thank you Blue Helix for dropping in and passing this on. Because of this thread, I discovered your LC lid tek, and I used those links you shared to purchase the syringe filters and vacutainers for cheaper than I’ve ever seen. So now I have supplies for LC lids that I can share and use for years to come.
So even if the ones on Amazon cost less and performed just as well, I’d still like knowing how to build my own. Why? First, because this hobby is exactly that, a hobby. Hobbyists like me, who are driven by curiosity, usually dedicate time and love to their craft. Wouldn’t you rather know how to build and control the very devices in which fuel the insatiable fire of mycological pursuit?
Secondly, the reason why this thread is valuable is because amazon isn’t an ethical place to give my energy and money to. Amazon isn’t here to help the world be a better place. I feel sorry for those who are making a habit out of amazon services, instead of sourcing supplies from much better companies.
I was actually going to post pictures of the lids I made last night- here they are being constructed with the non Amazon sourced parts you shared, and let me say this- I really enjoyed the process of construction these myself. I take some fucking pride in my craft! With that being said, I still use my Amazon stir plate, mostly because the only other alternative I knew about was computer fan stir plates, which are not any better. So when this little thing dies, I’ll be sure to reference this thread for guidance on how to build a better, cheaper one.
Blue Helix is the king of liquid culture. Look back in time and see what he was doing long before anyone else. A true inventor who earned that trusted cultivator tag. I have learned an incredible amount from your posts and am delighted to spot you still investing in the hobby. Let the trolls be, they don’t know any better
-------------------- Staying Out to Lunch
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Blue Helix
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: lovepotion] 1
#26894507 - 08/22/20 11:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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So like I said before I would update this thread if there was anything useful to say, but I have not nor have any interest in replying to it. If you have a real question, just private message me. That tends to get rid of the trolls since trolls thrive on attention more than anything.
I wanted to update this by saying that I did an animated GIF analysis of the spinning disc above running the motor I recommend at 9V. I had said it looked around 150 RPM to me. The analysis showed the motor recommended in this thread does in fact turn just about exactly 150 RPM (maybe 160) at 9V.
The reason I am so good detecting this kind of rotation visually is because like I said I spent a lot of time studying this aspect of magnetic stirrers. I had a lab one that allowed one to adjust from about 50 RPM to 1500 RPM. I played with lots of speeds, so I know my speeds pretty well. For example, I know the fast speeds of a crap magnetic stir plate (the $20 or $30 junk on Amazon or eBay) or PC fan and the slower desirable speeds for this purpose, which are generally under 200 RPM.
Someone asked about blending the LC after it's developed: that happens around 700 RPM or greater OR when you draw the LC into a syringe (due to the shearing effects of being drawn into a needle). So I don't see the point of blending it. Just like I don't see the point blending your finished agar plates into a jelly either. An LC is just a 3D agar plate to me.
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Blue Helix
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: Blue Helix]
#26895449 - 08/23/20 01:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
How to easily add a speed control without buying an expensive variable-voltage power supply
Someone asked me about adding a speed control. I measured the motor above at around 300 ohms with no load powered at 9V. So if you want a speed control, buy a DC supply is 24V (do not buy one over this). Then add a potentiometer (aka a "pot" or variable resistor) of 0-1000 ohms in series with the motor. You can probably find one of those on eBay for less than $1 delivered to you. That should allow around 50 to 300 RPM control with the center being 150RPM (9V).
If you'd like to go faster than 300 RPM so you can blend your LC for some reason like in a blender--again this really serves no practical purpose since drawing the LC out blends it--you need to buy a motor that is rated higher (either the 600 RPM or 1000 RPM at 24V version). The same principle applies though: buy the 24V supply and add a potentiometer of say 0 to 1500-ohm in series with it. Just keep in mind that motors that are rated faster have a limit to how slowly you can run them. A non-silent (the so-called silent ones just have a resistor built into them) PC fan is rated, for example, at around 2500 RPM at full voltage, so you might be able to get it down to 600 RPM or so. But if you try to go down to say 150 RPM by using a lower voltage or bigger resistor--and I've tried that before--the fan motor may just stop randomly. Also running a motor far, far slower than it is rated like that is harder on the motor, which is exactly why the the eBay "junk" magnetic stirrer stopped working for me since the motor eventually just blew out after I tried to use a lower voltage power supply than it was rated to slow it down further.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/23/20 01:59 PM)
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Blue Helix
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: lovepotion]
#26895516 - 08/23/20 02:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
lovepotion said: I really appreciate this thread, and I apologize if my first reply felt trollish. I was actually being entirely sincere when I said I love how you utilize hot glue, however I can see now how that could have been interpreted as pretentious or sarcastic. I know better than most that you are a master of the craft, far exceeding what many others will ever accomplish.
The entire point in him posting this was to share a new discovery, and some knowledge that only years and years of careful experimenting and observing earns. So thank you Blue Helix for dropping in and passing this on. Because of this thread, I discovered your LC lid tek, and I used those links you shared to purchase the syringe filters and vacutainers for cheaper than I’ve ever seen. So now I have supplies for LC lids that I can share and use for years to come.
So even if the ones on Amazon cost less and performed just as well, I’d still like knowing how to build my own. Why? First, because this hobby is exactly that, a hobby. Hobbyists like me, who are driven by curiosity, usually dedicate time and love to their craft. Wouldn’t you rather know how to build and control the very devices in which fuel the insatiable fire of mycological pursuit?
Secondly, the reason why this thread is valuable is because amazon isn’t an ethical place to give my energy and money to. Amazon isn’t here to help the world be a better place. I feel sorry for those who are making a habit out of amazon services, instead of sourcing supplies from much better companies.
I was actually going to post pictures of the lids I made last night- here they are being constructed with the non Amazon sourced parts you shared, and let me say this- I really enjoyed the process of construction these myself. I take some fucking pride in my craft! With that being said, I still use my Amazon stir plate, mostly because the only other alternative I knew about was computer fan stir plates, which are not any better. So when this little thing dies, I’ll be sure to reference this thread for guidance on how to build a better, cheaper one.
Blue Helix is the king of liquid culture. Look back in time and see what he was doing long before anyone else. A true inventor who earned that trusted cultivator tag. I have learned an incredible amount from your posts and am delighted to spot you still investing in the hobby. Let the trolls be, they don’t know any better
Hey, thank you for your post. I was referring to the person that mentioned buying an Amazon one as a troll. I opened this discussion with saying I had tried the ones on eBay, and the two cheap ones I bought were too fast. I then lowered the voltage supply on them, and they stopped working at any speed. That's why I built one, not because I like doing crafty things (because I really don't to be honest).
Having said that I am CERTAIN that there either is a slow one out there or there will be for cheap soon. And if someone finds one and can confirm it, PLEASE let me know! I want to mention it here then! The reason I know they either do exist or will is simply because I've been around long enough to remember some things. For example, did you know that back in 2000 I couldn't find a scale that did over 150g at 0.1g accuracy for under $130?!?! That almost seems impossible now! There is a whole line of scales that out there now that have calibration controls and can measure up to 500g at 0.01g accuracy (not just resolution but ACCURATELY too) for about $12?! Why everyone doesn't own one is a mystery to me.
The same applies to high-accuracy pH probes. Just five years ago, you couldn't get one that measured +/-0.02 pH accurately for under $110! Now the you can get a decent one on Amazon or eBay that is 0.02 accurate again with calibration controls for $12! Again, why doesn't everyone own one for the casings? Who knows. My point is that things change, and I am pretty much sure that a low-RPM magnetic spinner is either out there or will soon be for under $20. Until someone helps me find it, though, this thread was to help folks make one today.
PS - Of course, I didn't take offense to hot glue! LOL I'll accept I'm the king of hot glue. It's stupid, but hey, the stuff works in a pinch when strength isn't your goal and you know yourself well enough to know you might just screw up the glue application. I love that I can scrape it off and try again too. It's a unique glue.
Edited by Blue Helix (08/23/20 02:27 PM)
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: Blue Helix] 1
#26895548 - 08/23/20 02:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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What a fuckin spaz of a reply that was.

$20 shipped with Prime. Goes as dead slow as I want it to and fast enough to blend. I run over 60 monotubs at a given time and need oodles of LC. You can cry that because it is cheap and from China it is going to be bad but for the price of these I will sit them absolutely next to any bodged together unit. I can keep a quart of LC on there barely turning just fine.
I look forward to your next wall of text telling me how impossibly wrong I must be for not hacking together a rickety contraption instead of spending the equivelant of 1.5 hours of minimum wage employment on a unit with an actual speed controller.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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coAsTal
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: starbones]
#26895550 - 08/23/20 02:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Shut the fuck up dude-- you're the one missing the point.
This thread wasn't for you to come in pissing all over it telling the OP that his DIY design wasn't worth the time and effort.
It is to those that want to do it. If you have a great solution for yourself, that's swell.
Get the fuck out of here--
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: coAsTal]
#26895591 - 08/23/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I asked a question about the benefit specifying an objective perspective and got a train of thought response about how this is so much better and that mine is somehow shit with absolutely no evidence of that. Then chooses to label someone with a differing opinion as a fucking troll as it it somehow solidifies his position and negates someone elses? Ad hominems aren't groovy.
He's perfectly capable of acting like an arsehole on his own without the peanut gallery chiming in. The question asked was what benefit does this offer over something prebuilt for very little money and there is still no answer to that beyond some damned opinion. Good Christ.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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Pastywhyte
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: starbones] 1
#26895617 - 08/23/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: I asked a question about the benefit specifying an objective perspective and got a train of thought response about how this is so much better and that mine is somehow shit with absolutely no evidence of that. Then chooses to label someone with a differing opinion as a fucking troll as it it somehow solidifies his position and negates someone elses? Ad hominems aren't groovy.
He's perfectly capable of acting like an arsehole on his own without the peanut gallery chiming in. The question asked was what benefit does this offer over something prebuilt for very little money and there is still no answer to that beyond some damned opinion. Good Christ.
Given the OP’s tenure and contributions in the community I’m feeling like you’re the one acting out here. His “damned opinion” is worth a fair bit to me, if it’s not good enough for you then you don’t need to take it. You’ve made your point and he has made his. Let’s keep it civil going forward. That means not calling people arseholes. Thanks.
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Blue Helix
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: starbones]
#26895630 - 08/23/20 03:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
starbones said: What a fuckin spaz of a reply that was.

$20 shipped with Prime. Goes as dead slow as I want it to and fast enough to blend. I run over 60 monotubs at a given time and need oodles of LC. You can cry that because it is cheap and from China it is going to be bad but for the price of these I will sit them absolutely next to any bodged together unit. I can keep a quart of LC on there barely turning just fine.
I look forward to your next wall of text telling me how impossibly wrong I must be for not hacking together a rickety contraption instead of spending the equivelant of 1.5 hours of minimum wage employment on a unit with an actual speed controller.
Okay, trolly troll, I'm feeling good today so I'll give you the attention you need to feel important. Get your dick out because I bet this post is going to turn you on (even though it's my last to you). So here comes my "wall of text" just for you.
First, why would I care how many monotubs you've done? You think monotubs are something advanced? Isn't that like the step above PF Tek or something (it's been like 20 years for me)? I don't get your point, but I'm glad your monotub operation is going smoothly. Back to the facts.
So, uh, why didn't you include an Amazon link to the unit? Do you know about ctrl+c and ctrl+v? Maybe you should look it up and give it a try. Here's the unit on Amazon today for 50% more than you claim at $30 (not during some black Friday sale):
https://www.amazon.com/ANZESER-Magnetic-Stirrer-Stirring-Capacity/dp/B07J59QVGQ/
So not only did you fail to provide a link of your $20 unit so I could verify the price and probably buy one myself, but you also failed to provide an animated GIF or YouTube video so you can prove it going say 200 RPM or less. I provided two such animations, and you cannot provide me one?! Too much work for ya? Maybe study my "walls of text" to improve your posting style. Stuff like coherent thought and evidence kind of matters.
So you didn't think the one I bought also said 0-3000 RPM and had a picture of it going around 1000 RPM too? It did--for the same price of $30--and it didn't work below about 200 RPM without stopping randomly. It did here..
Now I hope my reply made you feel wonderful inside. Oh and be sure to wipe off the spots on your trousers before mom comes down.
So let's summarize since this wall of text is too short: A guy (me) posts how to do something he couldn't do without plopping down a bit too much money, and you attack it. Why not just provide a link and an animation of yours going at a lower RPM? This is why I called you a troll. Your response here was defensive and clearly an attempt to provoke rather than inform. In turn I mirror you in my reply and you do it again, etc. for all eternity. It's boring. There were a hundred nice ways to say what you wanted to say and prove it, but you're a troll so didn't use them.
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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: Blue Helix]
#26895639 - 08/23/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Holy. Fuck.
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starbones
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: starbones]
#26895661 - 08/23/20 04:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Your "slow is better therefore mine is better" argument falls over flat when you post a gif of your LC going mach chicken compared to a gentle stir like this.
You claimed these units were too fast due to their speed controllers being shit but here we are. I fully expect another wall of text with you ranting some kind of nonsense again that your hackjob is better because X when that X is proven to be bullshit.
I asked you why your stirrer was a better idea, you provided an argument and bleated for a gif. I can turn this down even slower but at that speed my LC's grow considerably slower and there is a chance of stalling the bar. I am trying my absolute damndest to be civil here but you are coming off as increasingly condescending and surely should knock off that stupid troll line. I asked you what made this design of yours OBJECTIVELY better and you took it as an insult or attack given your reply.
You said these units were incapable of going slow enough. There you are, with the speed controller you claim cannot do it.
Edit: You told people these things are doing 1000 rpm in your first post for crying out loud. That is 1/3 what this unit is capable of and much, much faster than reality as you can see with your own eyes. Many, many homebrewers use this exact model or the other dozen of the same carbon copy ones for slowly, gently stirring yeast starters, cultures and such.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
Edited by starbones (08/23/20 04:30 PM)
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lovepotion
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: starbones] 2
#26895894 - 08/23/20 07:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Blue's design serves a greater purpose specifically for creating healthy, easily identifiable, clean liquid culture. There are no other cheap stir plates on the market that do that.
I have the same stir plate as you and my liquid culture looks exactly like yours. It does not spin slow enough without stalling to create the 3-D agar pucks like shown in the original post. The "objective facts" you are looking for are right there in the first post. No one else has LC that looks like that, which as he described, with objective proof, with pictorial representation, how useful his design is and for good reason.
You are using the same stir plate as everyone else here, we all know exactly what speed it spins, what setting causes the stir bar to stall, and how fast its max speed is before the stirbar looses velocity and gets thrown off center.
Here are my thoughts- The language you've chosen to use," Puntzing around, Hack job, Mock chicken," are not selling me on your expertise. I don't like reading negative posts, or boarder line aggressive responses. A lot of people are going thru stuff right now, and this kind of insensitive language only adds more tension to the thread. You have not shared any good factual information that everyone doesnt already know first hand. Again, the stir plate you use is the same as everyone elses.
Think about this- The equipment we all use isnt designed specifically for mycology. Some of the experts in the field have trialed many many designs, and spent their energy, time and money perfecting the process. The monotubs you are using, the substrate you use, the filters you use on your monotubs, the liners you use in your monotubs, the stir plate you use, the LC recipe you follow, have all been discovered and shared by people who werent you. You are simply copying the techniques of those who came before you. SO why would you knock on something being shared that someone else designed, which serves a specific purpose directly related to the advancement of home mycology when all you are doing is copying the ideas of those who came before you?
-------------------- Staying Out to Lunch
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starbones
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Re: How to make a _good_ magnetic stirrer for cheap [Re: lovepotion]
#26895966 - 08/23/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
lovepotion said:
No one else has LC that looks like that.


They go slow enough to make the naval mines.
I'm out.
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