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 laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
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 Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine.  [Re: Forrester]  1
#26872271 - 08/09/20 08:18 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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. This is pretty much a repeat of something dealt with hundreds of years ago:
. "Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.
Desiring to show his attainment, he said: “The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no relaization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received.”
Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.
“If nothing exists,” inquired Dokuon, “where did this anger come from?” "
. Students of the way have been spouting glibly shit that sounds profound, forever; but unfortunately for them it has nothing to do with true insight.
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 Surfiingbird
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Registered: 06/23/16
Posts: 76
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: laughingdog]
#26873931 - 08/10/20 07:17 PM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Damn man you crazy as hell hahah
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,978
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: laughingdog]
#26874536 - 08/11/20 07:18 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
. This is pretty much a repeat of something dealt with hundreds of years ago:
. "Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.
Desiring to show his attainment, he said: “The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no relaization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received.”
Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.
“If nothing exists,” inquired Dokuon, “where did this anger come from?” "
. Students of the way have been spouting glibly shit that sounds profound, forever; but unfortunately for them it has nothing to do with true insight.
so what does that story say to you? if Yamaoka had not been angry, was it a true insight? If it was a true insight, would it matter if he became angry?
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Kickle]
#26874715 - 08/11/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 8 months ago) |
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Zen masters are often on the lookout for excess of certainty when it comes to the unknowable. SMACK!
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laughingdog
Stranger
Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,830
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Kickle]
#26877361 - 08/12/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said:
Quote:
laughingdog said:
. This is pretty much a repeat .....
so what does that story say to you? if Yamaoka had not been angry, was it a true insight? If it was a true insight, would it matter if he became angry?
What question(s) / teaching(s) should the story raise for anyone?
Why do you think it has been retold for centuries?
Why should I think for you?
Do you have a brain?
If so why not use it?
If you think the story is stupid, so be it, ... for you ... just as I won't think for you, I won't argue with you.
But I do doubt, the point of the story is for folks who think they are clever, to come up with different endings, that they then feel they need to show off to others to prove their cleverness.
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Kickle
Wanderer
Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,978
Last seen: 2 days, 23 hours
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: laughingdog]
#26877424 - 08/12/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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not sure why you don't want to discuss the thing you posted on the forum. But that's really up to you 
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Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder
Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida 
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
#26878676 - 08/13/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago) |
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Methinks that you're misusing the expression "reptilian" with regard to any higher cortical functions. The reptilian brain may include the non-cognitive limbic system and some very survival-based emotions. Liking the term is no excuse for misusing it in a discussion about consciousness.
You have had a few psychedelic experiences but you have made the novice's error of committing your first interpretation of said experiences to a doctrine for yourself. What you have landed on is an experience of detached equanimity of your experience relative to the interminable æons of phenomena here on Earth. This is not Nihilism (which btw, along with Eternalism are the two major heresies in Buddhism). Your love for your family and gratitude cannot be concomitant with Nihilism. Either clinical depression or a fatalism embodying more varied but nevertheless negative emotions accompany Nihilism. Suicide is a logical consequence of someone who has become fixated on a nihilistic vision of Reality. You do not seem suicidal fortunately.
There are many, many, many models of consciousness. My 1983 doctoral dissertation was one model on levels of human motivation that partake of consciousness, some levels of which non-psychedelicized individuals never rise to experience. There are famous modern models like mine (e.g., Ken Wilber, Timothy Leary, Michael Washburn, etc.) and ancient models belonging to religions, esoteric traditions often within religions, shamanic or otherwise magickal traditions, and schools of philosophy that need to be considered before one 'closes one's accounts with reality.' For your own health and development it would be wise not to misuse terms, misidentify philosophical positions and most of all not misinterpret Reality based on a few non-ordinary experiences. I have been tripping since 1971 and it redirected the trajectory of my life from the socio-cultural programming I was operating under to a change from pre-medicine to academic degrees in philosophy, theology and developmental & clinical psychology - all fueled by my need to understand transpersonal, transcendental states of consciousness.
Bottom line: Do not be too hasty to interpret your experiences without the corroboration of a relevant and time-tested frame of reference supplied by a venerable tradition. Remember that any non-corroborated opinion is just that, one subjective opinion, and those are more often than not erroneous because lacking in phenomenological objectivity. Each philosophical conclusion comes with its own Shadow-side which, like Nihilism, can have far-reaching if not tragic consequences. Tread lightly friend.
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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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redgreenvines
irregular verb
Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,173
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it would be a mistake to imagine that a reptilian brain was not host to consciousness even though it is less complex than ours is.
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