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OfflineMycoWill
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Grain jars slow to colonize
    #26877211 - 08/12/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

My cubensis jars always seem to take a long time to colonize (4+ weeks). My edible species (oysters, lions mane, ect) colonize much faster. I was hoping for some tips to improve colonization times for my jars. My method is as follows:

Soak rye grains for 12 hours with 1/4c gypsum per 10L water, boil for a few minutes until they reach ideal water content (plump but not bursting), drain and allow to dry to touch, fill jars and cap with a plastic lid with a 1/2" hole in the top covered with SFD, pressure cook at 15 psi for 100+ minutes, allow to cool and innoc with 1/4 of a petri dish containing either GT, B+, Cambodian on ME agar. I'll usually cut up the wedge to increase inoculation points. I let the jars colonize in my lab that is usually around 24-30 (75-86F) degrees Celsius at the moment (warmer then I'd like), the ambient Co2 is usually around 1500ppm. Spores take up to months for me but once on agar I don't see a noticeable difference between multi spore or an isolate. Once I get a jar fully colonized I expand it to either 12 or 24 lbs of grain in unicorn bags depending on how many jars I have on hand. It usually takes 2-3 weeks for a bag to fully colonize.

Anything I can do up the performance of my grains and lower colonization times? My tubs generally take 2 weeks to start pinning from the day of mixing.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: MycoWill]
    #26877500 - 08/12/20 08:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Shake your jars sooner and more frequent.


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: LotKid]
    #26877615 - 08/12/20 09:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
Shake your jars sooner and more frequent.



I could definitely try that, that brings me to my next question. These jars are hell to shake, once a lump gets to about 2" in diameter they won't break apart no matter how much I shake it or slam the jar against my palm. Any recommendations on a better way to break apart my grains in a jar? The bags are easy because I can just massage the clumps apart.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: MycoWill]
    #26877697 - 08/12/20 11:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Bacterial spawn is hard to break up.


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: LotKid]
    #26877957 - 08/13/20 06:44 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
Bacterial spawn is hard to break up.




I know, I don't think that's the issue though otherwise every single (hundreds) jar I've ever done had bac and all still managed to expand well and produce tubs well. I've had jars with bac and when I break them apart they generally don't recover or are very slow to recover.


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: MycoWill]
    #26877971 - 08/13/20 07:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Bac doesnt always stop the show. Can get mad fruits from bacterial spawn. Doesnt mean there still isnt a bacterial infection.

If your spawn is hell to break up in the jar then my money is on bacterial infection.


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: LotKid]
    #26877998 - 08/13/20 07:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Some genetics make really good binding mycelium. That Whyte Gold eat sent us is like that


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OfflineTheBoJim
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: LotKid]
    #26878073 - 08/13/20 08:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LotKid said:
Shake your jars sooner and more frequent.



How soon and how frequent? Is 4 shakes too many, is shaking at 5% too early?


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: Stromrider]
    #26878092 - 08/13/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:
Some genetics make really good binding mycelium. That Whyte Gold eat sent us is like that



Mine isnt


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: TheBoJim]
    #26878094 - 08/13/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

TheBoJim said:
Quote:

LotKid said:
Shake your jars sooner and more frequent.



How soon and how frequent? Is 4 shakes too many, is shaking at 5% too early?



No and no


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OfflineTheBoJim
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: LotKid]
    #26878147 - 08/13/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Sweet thanks! I need to experiment with a magnetic stir plate for grain jars now.

Joking aside, why does grain to grain go faster then agar to grain? Is it because mycelium is used to the food and does not need to adjust?


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InvisibleLotKid
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: TheBoJim]
    #26878161 - 08/13/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

That's agood line of thought.

Generally there's a few more inoculation points with grain vs agar. Even when its just a small amount of grain.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: LotKid]
    #26878233 - 08/13/20 10:33 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yea shaking more could've helped speed things up in your case but usually when grains take that much time to colonize is very likely cuz they're dry as hell, taking that they're not bacterial that is.
Pics would def help.


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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: Josex]
    #26878360 - 08/13/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: Josex]
    #26878408 - 08/13/20 12:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Josex said:
Yea shaking more could've helped speed things up in your case but usually when grains take that much time to colonize is very likely cuz they're dry as hell, taking that they're not bacterial that is.
Pics would def help.




I'll get on some pics. The reason I don't think it's bac, is because some do get bac and it's pretty easy to tell. Plus it'd be very odd every single strain I have, from different sources and being I have many different isolations and clones going on, are all very difficult to break up when they are cubensis. But my lions mane, oyster, shiitake, kings, are all easy to bust up. This leads me to believe it's either an extremely large coincidence that all my cubensis I've ever made have bac and I've never once had bac in any edible species or cubensis are generally much more resistant to break up and warrant extra procedures/methods to do so. They are made in the exact same conditions and the same lab.

Also on the note of water content, do you jar your grain when the surface is completely dry or still somewhat damp?


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: MycoWill]
    #26879227 - 08/13/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Would it be beneficial to use LC to inoculate my grain jars vs a 1/4 plate of agar?


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OfflineGrimsweeper
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: Stromrider]
    #26879346 - 08/13/20 10:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Stromrider said:
Some genetics make really good binding mycelium. That Whyte Gold eat sent us is like that



Every APE culture I've ever grown (and I've grown a lot) is like concrete. Even at 25% its stubborn.


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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: Grimsweeper]
    #26879612 - 08/14/20 06:40 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Ape is also notoriously dicficult to get clean.

Quote:

MycoWill said:
Would it be beneficial to use LC to inoculate my grain jars vs a 1/4 plate of agar?



No


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: LotKid]
    #26879896 - 08/14/20 10:21 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Well it depends what benefit you’re looking for. Faster colonization with LC for sure as long as it’s clean.

I like just putting the plate in sterile water for Blenderless LI. It’s been doing me fine with 10 day qts of spawn.

Twice I’ve tried shaking jars that were only 5-10% (I had used pretty small wedges). They still took a while to colonize and the myc looked real grey but once it went to bulk everything looked normal and colonized in good time. My grains may have been too dry on those.


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OfflineMycoWill
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Re: Grain jars slow to colonize [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26880002 - 08/14/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Roger Clemency said:
Well it depends what benefit you’re looking for. Faster colonization with LC for sure as long as it’s clean.

I like just putting the plate in sterile water for Blenderless LI. It’s been doing me fine with 10 day qts of spawn.

Twice I’ve tried shaking jars that were only 5-10% (I had used pretty small wedges). They still took a while to colonize and the myc looked real grey but once it went to bulk everything looked normal and colonized in good time. My grains may have been too dry on those.




Awesome, thanks. I'll give LC a try for my production jars and see how that goes.


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