|
Nobodycare
Stranger
Registered: 09/06/18
Posts: 281
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Size matter at all with shrooms?
#26876645 - 08/12/20 10:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
My Army vet buddy wants to trip. Dude is like 6'3" and maybe 275 lbs. He wants to trip but already said he doesnt want to take too much. Usually I recommend people start around 2g but am wondering if it will affect him any less bc of his size or would that still be a good starter dose?
|
LosTresOjos
Humano

Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: Nobodycare]
#26876725 - 08/12/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
You can go to 2.5 in order to overcome the larger surface area that the chemical must travel.
Either way that's a good starting point.
|
Pandemoon
Ἧeẍeᾐmeḭsṫeŗ ͛


Registered: 01/28/14 
Posts: 5,844
Loc: Europe
Last seen: 9 hours, 15 minutes
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26876764 - 08/12/20 11:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Body wheight and size doesn't matter that much with psychedelic drugs.
2.5g sunds like a good dose.
-
|
nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,555
Loc: Utah
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: Nobodycare]
#26876896 - 08/12/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
In serious medical/scientific settings, all drugs are dosed relative to the weight of the user. Even in animals, if you want to find out what dose of a drug an animal should take, it is done relative to the animal's weight.
But that's for serious scientific work when accuracy is important. How important is that level of precision for dosing mushrooms? It isn't. So yes, the weight of the person consuming the drug matters with all drugs, but it also doesn't matter because you probably don't need or care about having that much precision.
|
Gayfish
Lyrical genius


Registered: 07/27/20
Posts: 52
Loc: Climbing
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: nooneman]
#26877498 - 08/12/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nooneman said: In serious medical/scientific settings, all drugs are dosed relative to the weight of the user. Even in animals, if you want to find out what dose of a drug an animal should take, it is done relative to the animal's weight.
But that's for serious scientific work when accuracy is important. How important is that level of precision for dosing mushrooms? It isn't. So yes, the weight of the person consuming the drug matters with all drugs, but it also doesn't matter because you probably don't need or care about having that much precision.
I’m not a scientist, but I would imagine the active compounds in shrooms primarily effect the brain. And no disrespect to the friend of the original poster, but I imagine regardless of his body size, his brain is probably the same 8 lbs or whatever as everyone else. Again, I’m just imagining here, I have no science to back this up
-------------------- We don’t make sense around here, we make dollars
|
Nobodycare
Stranger
Registered: 09/06/18
Posts: 281
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: Gayfish]
#26877520 - 08/12/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I gave him a bag with 2.5 g and another bag with 4g. Told him to eat the first one and see what hapoens. If it wasnt enough wait 2 weeks or more and eat the bigger bag next time. I dont know when he plans on trying it but I told him to let me know how it goes. When he does ill post here to let you guys know.
|
MrMoon
Hellbound Hell Hound



Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 11,788
Loc:
Last seen: 3 months, 4 days
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: Nobodycare]
#26877878 - 08/13/20 04:43 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Aborts are nore potent they say.
But levvels of psilocybin vary within each mushroom if im not mistaken
-------------------- Bring your love baby Imma bring my Shame Bring the drugs baby Imma bring my pain
|
Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,141
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 14 minutes, 12 seconds
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: MrMoon]
#26877890 - 08/13/20 05:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Psilocybin might only effective within serum concentration as well, so having big bones or being fat wouldn't make a difference. It might just really depend on how much blood you've got.
Just grappling for logical reasons why size doesn't seem to make much difference with psychedelics in general.
--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
|
DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: Northerner]
#26877936 - 08/13/20 06:23 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
The Johns Hopkins depression studies with psilocybin did consider body size. I never thought it mattered, but that many people ask about it, maybe it does?
If I wasn’t at wok, I’d check the Johns Hopkins numbers and do the calcs myself; guess it would be along the lines of mg psilocybin per kg body mass, work backwards from their figures using a 70kg adult to find the equation.
Good luck, I’m back off to work  DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

|
Socrateshroom
сталкер


Registered: 09/05/18
Posts: 1,840
Loc: Westworld
Last seen: 17 days, 9 hours
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: DJ Ed]
#26878061 - 08/13/20 08:37 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
DJ Ed said: The Johns Hopkins depression studies with psilocybin did consider body size. I never thought it mattered, but that many people ask about it, maybe it does?
If I wasn’t at work, I’d check the Johns Hopkins numbers and do the calcs myself; guess it would be along the lines of mg psilocybin per kg body mass, work backwards from their figures using a 70kg adult to find the equation.
Good luck, I’m back off to work  DJ Ed
The "high" end, to produce a spiritual experience in patients of the John Hopkins Study, is posted as
30 mg/70 kg
So about 0.43 mg of psilocybin per kg of body weight.
However it is important to note:
1) They used a synthetic form os psilocybin and no other actives. Mushrooms contain a number of other actives, such as baeocystin, which may influence a trip differently than just pure psilocybin. And note, I say MAY because I am not a scientist and do not know if it actually has a significant impact on a trip.
2) An individual probably won't know the exact concentration of the psilocin/psilocybin in their mushrooms. And they definitely won't know or can even guess if they have an MS grow. So it's just about impossible to calculate how much to take using the JH formula without knowing the amount of actives in your mushrooms.
--------------------
Edited by Socrateshroom (08/13/20 08:39 AM)
|
DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: Socrateshroom]
#26878279 - 08/13/20 10:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Thank you for doing the research for me, Socrateshroom; although I was lazy, I was at work :-\
The only thing you can do is work from average psilocybin content from the shroomery Doseage calculator. All my ipad webpages have disappeared so I’m being lazy again! Convert your average psilocin content to psilocybin, x1 for fresh or x0.5 for dried. Add this to the average psilocybin content. Ignore everything else (see note below).
So for me, I’m currently still underweight after SSRIs, I’m around 56kg. When I’ve taken the 5g heroic in the past, I was way over heroic mark lol  
I don’t think therefore that weight vs strength has much credence, based on personal size experience. I suppose Johns Hopkins had to cover all FDA bases, as it were.
Note to other comment: Baeocystin makes a HUGE difference to the trip. I say this based on how different Liberty Caps are to cubensis; and liberties are relatively high in baeocystin.
Take care DJ Ed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

|
LosTresOjos
Humano

Registered: 09/18/18
Posts: 1,347
Loc: Hurling Through Space
Last seen: 2 years, 29 days
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: DJ Ed]
#26878373 - 08/13/20 11:43 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Plosocin has quiet an affinity for the receptor site so it's hard to think that body weight would have a major impact on it. And I'm sure they had to include the kg to mg ratio for the sake of science.
|
DJ Ed
Mushroom Engineer


Registered: 09/04/16
Posts: 2,326
Loc: UK
Last seen: 1 month, 28 days
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: LosTresOjos]
#26878392 - 08/13/20 11:55 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Agreed
-------------------- “It’s like when you see a mountain lion,” he suggested. “If you run, it will chase you. So you must stand your ground.” Michael Pollan: How To Change Your Mind “The problem is not to find the answer, it’s to face the answer.” Terence McKenna

|
PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: Northerner]
#26878698 - 08/13/20 02:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Northerner said: Psilocybin might only effective within serum concentration as well, so having big bones or being fat wouldn't make a difference. It might just really depend on how much blood you've got.
Just grappling for logical reasons why size doesn't seem to make much difference with psychedelics in general.
This is the correct explanation. It's % in the blood that circulates that matters, not how far it has to circulate.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
|
InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: DJ Ed]
#26878754 - 08/13/20 02:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Mushrooms contain a number of other actives, such as baeocystin, which may influence a trip differently than just pure psilocybin. And note, I say MAY because I am not a scientist and do not know if it actually has a significant impact on a trip.
But no scientist has ever studied this. We know there are multiple chemicals, but there'd be no way to test this from subjective experience. I suppose if we isolated the chemicals and gave one group pure baeocystin, one group pure norbaeocystin, psilocin, etc. (add the control group(s)) that would be a way to explore. I hope one day we actually do that, one of the questions I've always pondered.
Similar to how we know THC is the main chemical in cannabis that has psychoactive effect, but there are very many cannabinoids (CBD the most other well known) and understanding their inter-relation would be awesome.
|
tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: Nobodycare] 2
#26878777 - 08/13/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
6'3" and 275lbs? We'll need to see a pic of him with his clothes off to determine the dose. I'm a nurse, it's ok. 
|
MooseOnDaLoose
Stranger
Registered: 06/16/20
Posts: 5
Last seen: 8 months, 30 days
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: tyrannicalrex]
#26878787 - 08/13/20 03:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
my personal experience, is size doesnt matter. i'm a BIG guy (not bragging, just the truth).I hit the gym frequently and pack on a lot of muscle. im 6'2 and well over 200 pounds.
YET shrooms hit me like a fucking tonka truck. whereas my skinny ass 5'7 friend, can take ungodly amount of shrooms and he's still able to function.
I think its more about how each individual reacts to psilo and the other alkaloids in mushrooms, than it is about size. This is all based on anectodal evidence, though. so keep that in mind.
|
PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
|
Quote:
InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:
Mushrooms contain a number of other actives, such as baeocystin, which may influence a trip differently than just pure psilocybin. And note, I say MAY because I am not a scientist and do not know if it actually has a significant impact on a trip.
But no scientist has ever studied this. We know there are multiple chemicals, but there'd be no way to test this from subjective experience. I suppose if we isolated the chemicals and gave one group pure baeocystin, one group pure norbaeocystin, psilocin, etc. (add the control group(s)) that would be a way to explore. I hope one day we actually do that, one of the questions I've always pondered.
Similar to how we know THC is the main chemical in cannabis that has psychoactive effect, but there are very many cannabinoids (CBD the most other well known) and understanding their inter-relation would be awesome.

Oh it most definitely has an impact on a trip, if that's what makes the difference. Ask anybody who's done cubes and woodlovers to compare them.
What you can say is that woodlovers have a trip with elements beyond the sort of trip that cubensis have. I had a mutant strain of Ps cyanescens once that I domesticated and that fruited for me like cubes do, making them easy to cultivate. The trip from those was on another level from what I've gotten from cubes, including PEs. Although cubes if selected well for genetics can be incredible, even at their best they lack this other aspect. 
I lost the genetics when I suddenly took a 10 year break to, among other things, prove to myself I didn't need shrooms for writing. But I still have spore prints kept in the fridge for a couple decades to work some more at getting the culture back. Or perhaps just trying to induce the mutation again for fun.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
|
InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
|
Re: Size matter at all with shrooms? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#26878942 - 08/13/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
PrimalSoup said:
Quote:
InfiniteDreams said:
Quote:
Mushrooms contain a number of other actives, such as baeocystin, which may influence a trip differently than just pure psilocybin. And note, I say MAY because I am not a scientist and do not know if it actually has a significant impact on a trip.
But no scientist has ever studied this. We know there are multiple chemicals, but there'd be no way to test this from subjective experience. I suppose if we isolated the chemicals and gave one group pure baeocystin, one group pure norbaeocystin, psilocin, etc. (add the control group(s)) that would be a way to explore. I hope one day we actually do that, one of the questions I've always pondered.
Similar to how we know THC is the main chemical in cannabis that has psychoactive effect, but there are very many cannabinoids (CBD the most other well known) and understanding their inter-relation would be awesome.

Oh it most definitely has an impact on a trip, if that's what makes the difference. Ask anybody who's done cubes and woodlovers to compare them.
What you can say is that woodlovers have a trip with elements beyond the sort of trip that cubensis have. I had a mutant strain of Ps cyanescens once that I domesticated and that fruited for me like cubes do, making them easy to cultivate. The trip from those was on another level from what I've gotten from cubes, including PEs. Although cubes if selected well for genetics can be incredible, even at their best they lack this other aspect. 
I lost the genetics when I suddenly took a 10 year break to, among other things, prove to myself I didn't need shrooms for writing. But I still have spore prints kept in the fridge for a couple decades to work some more at getting the culture back. Or perhaps just trying to induce the mutation again for fun. 
I'm not sure where your disagreement is.
Without isolation it is impossible to describe the specific psychoactive components of the mushroom.
It is well agreed that these differences exist, but without that isolation all we are left with is subjective experiences of people in altered states. And that is hardly scientific.
|
PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
|
|
Wiki:
Quote:
Little information exists with regard to human pharmacology, but in the book Magic Mushrooms Around the World, author Jochen Gartz reports being aware of a study in which "10 mg of baeocystin were found to be about as psychoactive as a similar amount of psilocybin."[5] Gartz also reported in a research paper that a self-administered assay of 4 mg of baeocystin caused "a gentle hallucinogenic experience".
I doubt that the differences are due to baeocystin (or its analogues), since new compounds have been discovered recently. They or other unknown actives may possess different methods of action, such as potentiation.
--------------------
if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (08/14/20 12:07 AM)
|
|