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Mycochopper
Stranger than you


Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 82
Last seen: 1 year, 20 days
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Random morning thoughts
#26860117 - 08/03/20 06:48 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Reality... What is real? What is not? My reality is real to me but not to you because you and I are different and because of our different experiences that we have as we travel through space and time we see and perceive things differently from one another even if we see the same thing taking place. Therefore there are billions of different realities taking place at the exact same time and we are each one part of the multiverse and no one is any less important than the next.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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I like your view of individuals' realities all interpenetrating into a multiverse of time and space, yet simultaneously centered in a multitude of connected but separate beings.
the center is everywhere
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,885
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Makes me think of some of my shroom trips. Eyes everywhere with no central point or seeming edges except those created by field of view
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Yellow Pants


Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
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Re: Random morning thoughts [Re: Kickle]
#26872172 - 08/09/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I’m not so sure. As the same species my eyesight is your eyesight. With minor subtleties. The essence of the perception is made of the same stuff. Or no ?
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
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Quote:
Mycochopper said: Reality... What is real? What is not? My reality is real to me but not to you because you and I are different and because of our different experiences that we have as we travel through space and time we see and perceive things differently from one another even if we see the same thing taking place. Therefore there are billions of different realities taking place at the exact same time and we are each one part of the multiverse and no one is any less important than the next.
"My reality is real to me but not to you because you and I are different and because of our different experiences "
You only think your reality is real --- but it is not -- you do not see that atoms and therefore all mater is 99.99..% space --- and in constant motion and at some level indistinguishable from energy. And this goes for all of us. We live in illusory worlds. And the composition of 'stuff' is only one level, where our assumptions are mistaken.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
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David Bohm called our subjective interior experience an "inner show."
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,885
Last seen: 4 seconds
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said: I’m not so sure. As the same species my eyesight is your eyesight. With minor subtleties. The essence of the perception is made of the same stuff. Or no ?
yeah I'd say our visual perception is made of the same stuff
but I took the eyes in these trips to represent awareness rather than human vision specifically. akin to looking in a mirror but seeing awareness instead of the usual stuff
maybe this can help to illustrate what I mean: If awareness is without bounds and only my perceptions place boundaries, then I should be able to be aware of things that I cannot sense directly. I have experiences that corroborate this although I'd be incapable of proving this. Could this be a misunderstood stance then? Sure. But after years and years of doubt and questioning, it is still the best understanding I have based on experiences over time. I'd say everyone needs to evaluate this perpetually if they want to understand themselves more
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Yellow Pants



Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
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Re: Random morning thoughts [Re: Kickle]
#26874930 - 08/11/20 11:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kickle said: yeah I'd say our visual perception is made of the same stuff
but I took the eyes in these trips to represent awareness rather than human vision specifically. akin to looking in a mirror but seeing awareness instead of the usual stuff
maybe this can help to illustrate what I mean: If awareness is without bounds and only my perceptions place boundaries, then I should be able to be aware of things that I cannot sense directly. I have experiences that corroborate this although I'd be incapable of proving this. Could this be a misunderstood stance then? Sure. But after years and years of doubt and questioning, it is still the best understanding I have based on experiences over time. I'd say everyone needs to evaluate this perpetually if they want to understand themselves more
Awareness as in beyond the perceptual. What is awareness in terms of how you are defining it here? What would it mean to be aware of things that are not being sensed, can we even have awareness of the actual things without sense?
I'm not sure what intuition is but awareness of things not being perceived. Doesn't Platonism basically point to something like that where the real world is intuitive and the sensible world is the illusion and hence you have intuition?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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one has to sense (or think) something to be aware of it.
sensation and elicited memory in the cerebral cortex are equivalent.
if the idea or sense form had never existed, one would not be aware of it.
HOWEVER
when more than one thing is in mind simultaneously, new combinatorial idea forms occur that had not previously been sensed - some new activation patterns can enter the awareness like this without technically having been sensed, and this exception to the basic rule can give rise to all variety of creative thought, or dream forms.
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Kickle
Wanderer


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Quote:
Yellow Pants said: Awareness as in beyond the perceptual. What is awareness in terms of how you are defining it here?
I'd say awareness relates closely with attention. Because without attention, many things are made unaware.
I don't think awareness is beyond the perceptual though. Except in the sense that the perceptual does not define awareness. They co-mingle nicely IME. But one can perceive something and yet not be aware of the perception.
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: What would it mean to be aware of things that are not being sensed, can we even have awareness of the actual things without sense?
I guess it depends on how one defines "sense". In a more concrete way or a more abstract way. I think if one defines it abstractly as anything in mind, such as thoughts, emotions, etc. then nothing. But if one defines it concretely as the information brought in by our sense organs, then in the context of how I mean it, it represents being aware of or paying attention to a concrete sense representation that one is not directly perceiving through a sense organ. And yet proceeds to demonstrate itself to exist via a sense organ in the near future.
Crudely, a hypothesis would be an example of this. One has an informed "hunch" about an expected outcome and seeks to validate it. Sometimes one has a wild hypothesis because of strong feelings despite logical information, or one may have no information and only a feeling. This could be considered awareness without having anything to base it around perceptually.
Quote:
Yellow Pants said: I'm not sure what intuition is but awareness of things not being perceived. Doesn't Platonism basically point to something like that where the real world is intuitive and the sensible world is the illusion and hence you have intuition?
I dunno really. I didn't get that part of the philosophy course. The whole cave thing had me lost
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Yellow Pants



Registered: 05/14/17
Posts: 1,386
Loc:
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Re: Random morning thoughts [Re: Kickle]
#26875932 - 08/11/20 09:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I notice something that may be a thing where you are saying that awareness is not beyond the perceptual yet you also state that what we perceive sensually is but a representation of external things. I detect a bit of uncertainty there?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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there is a lot of inconsistency here because the definitions of words are enveloped by feelings for what the words "perception" and "awareness" mean as individuals here wrack their memories for the precise resonance of those words in use in the annals of their memories.
try to be a bit more scientific, even if you are just going on memories of conversations since you were a child. externally or body related: if you had a venn diagram of all sensations, awareness normally will be a small circle related to what is in focus. internally or mind related: if you had a venn diagram of all thought forms including bits of memory, awareness normally will be a small circle related to what is most relevant.
together: if you had a way of depicting the combination of mental and body related activity you might see some expansion of the awareness circle in one (body side say) to the detriment of the other (mental side perhaps), but you might also see a balance effect in some people who have trained their awareness to keep in touch with what is happening in the physical world while deeply sensitive to mental considerations.
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the term perception has collected a lot of debris, as it has been used as equivalent to sensation - and this is terrible because senses such as vision, touch etc. relate to transduction of energy in the real world (including the body itself) into series of neural signal pulse trains in the cerebral cortex.
in the meantime, while that aspect of sensation is very clear, perception is most often used in phrases where 'something is perceived as' some other thing that is related in some way. This has to mean that a mental reflection or association has occurred in response to the activity of the sensed bit. Therefore perception is always at least something more than initial raw sensation. i.e. it has accumulated a memory component. Both however sensation and perception - in the mind, are equivalently thought forms, basically energy activations taking space in the mind.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,885
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Quote:
Yellow Pants said: I notice something that may be a thing where you are saying that awareness is not beyond the perceptual yet you also state that what we perceive sensually is but a representation of external things. I detect a bit of uncertainty there?
The uncertainty for me is that as our knowledge expands, what appear as bizarre manifestations could become ordinary. But as of right now, I have experiences that do not fit the mold as it were. They are not conducive to one of the major scientific criteria: replication
But I'm not one to throw the baby out with the bath water as they say. Just because they cannot be easily replicated does not mean I discount them as valid experiences. It just makes them unscientific experiences. Which is why continuing to explore them is the name of the game IMO
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Random morning thoughts [Re: Kickle]
#26876466 - 08/12/20 08:01 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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all experiences should at least in some way not fit any previous mould. something is always shifted, added, or missing.
however, to the degree that anything fits (matches), that is perception.
prior to that is sensation.
the confusing thing is that thoughts at this stage are equivalent events to sensation events in the brain in nearly every way, and, to the degree that any thought fits (matches) previous thoughts or sensations, that too is perception.
Therefore we can say that perception among a field of sensations, and among a field of thoughts is the same post-resonance-association brain event type of thing.
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Mycochopper
Stranger than you


Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 82
Last seen: 1 year, 20 days
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We are all but minute pulses of electricity that make up our thoughts and feelings and how we perceive our realities.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,885
Last seen: 4 seconds
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hey welcome back
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Mycochopper
Stranger than you


Registered: 07/15/20
Posts: 82
Last seen: 1 year, 20 days
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Re: Random morning thoughts [Re: Kickle]
#26878024 - 08/13/20 07:57 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Sometimes the clouds look like braille to me and I want to run my fingers across them to see what the gods have written in the skies.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,885
Last seen: 4 seconds
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feel it ouutttt
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,706
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Re: Random morning thoughts [Re: Kickle]
#26881068 - 08/15/20 05:21 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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the clouds are so sweet to me during covid
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Am having my morning coffee on the back deck overlooking a sea of green grass, flowers, and trees -taking it all in - when suddenly a hummingbird pulls up at an incredible speed with the sound of its wings working as if in double time until it flies away. Thundered and lightninged & rained incredibly hard last night - this morning feels extra crisp & fresh. Anew!
Also.
The moment immediately before fully waking up - before the mind has time to consolidate into its normal character - is always such a wonderful thing to behold - it allows me to look at things I never would have noticed in ways I never would have thought about . It’s deep & profound even though it’s short lived. Always feel blessed after dipping into that place before waking up. It is truly psychedelic.
That woke me - goodmorning!
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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