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moorshy
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What do you guys think about these?
#26875595 - 08/11/20 05:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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hey guys, i started to fruit one of my cake, it didnt start to pin yet, and i had to go for almost 2 weeks away, so i just left it in the bag. I came back, and now its like this:

i need some advice. should i throw it? what can i do?
these are the two others, are these pins?



what do you guys think, what if i dont take them out, just put it in a same bag like at the first for fruiting?
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Josex
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: moorshy]
#26875605 - 08/11/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The pic is not very good but the first cake seems to have been taken over by some pin mold.
Those are pins, yes. Yes, you can fruit them like that without taking them out of the container. It's called top fruiting.
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moorshy
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: Josex]
#26876183 - 08/12/20 01:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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okay, so its contamed, and goes to trash right?
im living on a mountain now, so probably there are different mold spores around. what could i do to make it sure that it will not happen again?
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moorshy
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: moorshy]
#26876225 - 08/12/20 02:11 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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im thinkin about using coir to mix it up, it looks less messy at the end, and maybe it needs less maintenance, since sometimes i have to go away for a few days. what do you think guys?
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TipOfTheCap
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: moorshy]
#26876240 - 08/12/20 02:20 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Don't put that contaminated cake in anything. Toss that out. If you want to go to coir with the others, you really need a good number of cakes to do so.
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moorshy
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: TipOfTheCap]
#26876254 - 08/12/20 02:37 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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i have only 2 cakes, but i was thinking to do a smaller version of coir tek. or its necessary to have it with more cakes?
if yes, what would you suggest to have the easiest solution to fruut them?
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TipOfTheCap
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: moorshy]
#26876267 - 08/12/20 03:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its really hard to tell with the quality of the pictures. But number one, what containers are you using for the cakes? The last pic is of a jar, but what is the plastic container? Doesn't look proper. Did you PC these? How long have they been in the jar? The tin foil is not supposed to go under the screw lid ring. It will not make a proper seal during PCing and can ruin many things if water boiled up into it or it could contaminate during colonization because its not air tight and the dry verm filter layer will not work. Do you have a proper FC? Seems to be many things possibly wrong. Those jars are pinning but not fully colonized it looks like. That can be from the substrate being too tight and/or there is possible contamination. I really can't tell much from the pictures.
To answer your questions, if you did a small version of say a shoebox with coir, you would need more cakes than you have to make it worth it in my opinion. You also need more crumbled up cakes than you would using grains or another spawn type. That being said, many guys seem to have done great grows with crumbled cakes to bulk.
Easiest for you would probably constructing a proper SGFC and pop them in there. But honestly those other two need to finish colonizing more if they aren't contaminated. And they should have a week of consolidation after they finish colonizing before you birth.
Edited by TipOfTheCap (08/12/20 03:29 AM)
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moorshy
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: TipOfTheCap]
#26876272 - 08/12/20 03:41 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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they are in the jars like almost a month ago. i think the less colonized was because i fucked up probably min 2 of the inoculation from the four and the spore ended up on the top of the jar. so maybe, not enough spore is the reason?
why do you think the plastic jar is not proper? it was made exactly for colonisation i think. the other one is a small glass jar. it looks really nice, i cannot see any visible contam.
i pc-d them for an hour, with double foiling (top and under the lid too), i was making holes on it just at the inoculation and i covered it with micropore tapes. here its between 20 and 30 degrees, maybe thats why it looks wet.
i have a bag with filters (just like on the plastic jars), it could be used as a fruiting chamber afaik. i thought that i could just simply let it swim a bit, grind it into a relatively good amount of pasteurized coir and mix it, put in the bag and let it go. do you think it could work?
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moorshy
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: moorshy]
#26876277 - 08/12/20 03:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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or i was also thinkin about simply just putting the jars/containers into the bag on a layer of perlite and a piece of foil. i dont wanna fuck around too much with having the cake outside, the other one is the reason why.
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TipOfTheCap
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: moorshy]
#26876287 - 08/12/20 04:00 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If some or all of the spores got on top of that dry verm layer, you most likely have contamination somewhere. That layer is the very critical part to making these cakes work. If it gets wet, it can help other nasties to find their way down through the layer.
The pf cake tek calls for 1/2 pint wide mouth canning jars. Not that you can't sterilize PP5 plastic in a PC, but that screw type lid does not look like a good seal. Or the best choice of container I should say. What is it and where was it purchased? I do see you have micropore tape on there though.
The jars should not have tin foil under the jar lid. The lid is what makes the seal that is critical to the pf jar tek working. That's a big no good there. The foil on top is just to keep water from coming into the jar during PC and ruining the sterilization process. You do need at least 2 (most people use 4) very small holes in the jar lid for GE. They should be about the size of a 10 gauge needle, or smaller sized nail.
You can fruit mushies in just about anything; provided that you always have the proper amount of fresh air exchange, moisture, humidity, and light. But that bag doesn't sound like a good idea. And looking at the first picture, it probably was suffocating in stale air with the wrong humidity levels. Fruiting needs as much fresh air as you can provide, as long as the RH is at an acceptable level. The bag is very far from other optimal designs that have been proven time and time again to work. Stick to the teks word for word before you experiment if you want to have good results. Then you can change things to experiment if you like. Its a hobby, and its science, and it should be fun 
Other than the 24 hour dunking after birthing and between flushes, your cakes should never be "swimming". Too much water. The cakes will have enough water for the first flush after dunking after you birth them. Too much water and keeping them in that bag that isn't getting fresh air is why you had that fist cake contaminate. It was suffocating and its a perfect breeding ground for just about every other mold and bacteria you can think of.
You are correct about grinding cakes and spawning that to coir. That can be done for sure. Just really need a bunch more cakes to do that. I wouldn't think it would be worth it with two cakes, unless you wanted to experiment with a "micro grow".
20 or 30 degrees? I'm down south, and saying that is making me chilly just hearing it
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TipOfTheCap
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: TipOfTheCap]
#26876289 - 08/12/20 04:04 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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They need to not be in that bag. Looked what happened the first time. The pearlite will not help if its outside the bag. That's to help contain humidity levels in a proper fruiting chamber, which that bag is not.
Look up the SGFC tek. That is a really good one to start with. Read it, duplicate it, and understand WHY it works.
If those jars make it to 100% colonization and sit for a week to consolidate, you can pop them into that sweet shiny new SGFC you built and get some mush!
There are other fruiting chamber designs, but in my opinon, the SGFC is pretty basic, cheap, and forgiving for beginners.
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moorshy
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: TipOfTheCap]
#26876305 - 08/12/20 04:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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okay, so just a misunderstanding. - spores ended up ob the top of the jar! i mean, on the lid so like half, or 4th of thr spores got into. is it posible that ithe grow was stopped and started to pin because it is done with what it can do?
the bags was ordered from a specific site. it has like 4 all rounded co2 filter line, but probably it needs to be opened regularly, and i didnt.
i want to stick to the teks as much as i can, but i want to use what i have. the plastic container is also from that site, and it is made for pressure sterilization, it survives very well. also it has this co2 filter on to. i was using 4 holes for every jar, and i saw it in a tek video that people put foil under the lid to make it sure that no water getting into. now i would not use it again, because it doesnt really make sense now if im thinkin about it
i will look around what i could use, my other idea is, that i have a 1,2 l plastic container, and i would use that as a kinda pot or something, to put the cakes in that, with perlite down the ottom, and this to put in the bag, with frequent "let it open" session for fresh air. what do you think?
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TipOfTheCap
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: moorshy]
#26876345 - 08/12/20 06:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ah, understood. Well, that's no fun. Apparently you got some in there or it wouldn't have germinated. Awesome.
Is that bag made for inoculating grains, or is it actually designed to be a fruiting bag? Let's get a pic of it. But definitely you don't have enough air exchange seeing the first pic. Not saying too much standing water is the cause of that fist cake's demise, but it sure is helping it along keeping stagnant conditions.
You don't need any "filters" for any reason on your fruiting chamber no matter what you use. And Co2 isn't what a filter would be used for anyway. Once you're fully colonized and consolidated and ready for fruiting, the cakes are really resistant to contams. You don't have to worry so much about contams at this stage. You do need to keep an eye on RH and FAE. The polyfill and micropore tape on mono tubs you see is for dialing in the FAE and RH to the tub mostly, though it can help with contams floating around the room from getting in. The purpose of the FAE is to get rid of Co2 and introduce air. Evaporation and FAE are huge pinning triggers. That's the great thing about SGFC. They have holes on all six sides and facilitate that kind of climate. Those filters are restricting FAE and aren't probably enough anyway for a set it and forget it design.
The plastic containers, do they have a gasketed lid? You may have a decent product there if so. And you did use micropore tape filters. I haven't seen those and I can't tell much from the pic.
Yeah you definitely can ditch the tin foil under the lid and ring. Its not necessary and you need that seal with the lid. You do need one on top during the cook and it needs to be removed while its incubating so it has gas exchange.
You could try with the bag, but it would have to be modified and you would have to do alot of FAE I would think in that small space. It would be something you'd have to dial in, so if you're looking to have a successful harvest, maybe you should choose another option that's solid. The pearlite I don't think would be a good choice with that.
You could make a mini SGFC with the plastic containers, but they need to be of reasonable size for the cake and have good FAE. Another option for the containers would be a humidity chamber. You can use coir for the substrate and just put the cakes on a small piece of foil in there. There's a good tek out there for those.
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moorshy
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: TipOfTheCap]
#26877870 - 08/13/20 04:27 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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okay, im sending you pictures ahout egerything i got
plastic container version:

glassjar version:



plastic bag:

plastic box:

sorry if the pictures are turned, i have never experienced such an unhandy method for uploading pictures like in this forum, i almost give up, its a mindfuck.
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moorshy
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: moorshy]
#26877873 - 08/13/20 04:29 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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so, in the plastic, there are like 3 pins started grow pretty fast. i do with it? should i fruit it? or its just a pin that will be aborted?
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moorshy
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Re: What do you guys think about these? [Re: moorshy]
#26878026 - 08/13/20 07:59 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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my idea now is that i would put the bigger plastic container without lid in the bag, put perlite to the bottom, put the cake on it. before that, i would make holes on the bag, and mist it few times a day. in my house its like 40-60% humidity anyway, so with enough holes on it, it would keep the optimal RH. maybe even using cotton balls to cover the wholes. could that work?
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