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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Dark_Star]
#26882325 - 08/15/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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However, I do believe that the mushroom should be the therapeutic entheogen that is primarily introduced to the public domain through the medical model. For the reasons Asante listed.
I believe we will get to the point where we have widespread standardized clinical & medical application of a variety of psychedelics at some point. But... in the mean time we will need to focus on one or two that have the best results for the most people to begin with. Psilocybin is a great substance to push the psychedelic renaissance forward and introduce psychedelic therapy to the public.
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Smartattack
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Dark_Star]
#26882368 - 08/15/20 08:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dark_Star said: No, the first option would be whichever one suited the individual & circumstances of the patient best. Blanket statements are a no-go here. This is medicine, and effective medicine is targeted to the needs & individualities of the patient. It’s not a one size fits all thing at all.
Yeah...but you dont know what works for someone till you start somewhere. Im suggesting you start with mushrooms as a baseline, not synth combos lol.
-------------------- * Smarts videos * Planet of the APES   I'm a fungal white supremacist.
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ArthurFungarelli
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Asante] 2
#26911880 - 09/01/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: The cultivation can be made so simple it would be a viable kid's science project in legal times.
That is a beautiful thought.
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Meschead
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Asante] 1
#27573207 - 12/08/21 05:25 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Nice theory, but there is another contender that has an advantage!
San Pedro Cactus (and where legal, esp Canada maybe Peyote). Or other legal Mescaline containing Cactus.
The advantages are...
Mescaline is a very positive and deep and long lasting experience. It is pretty safe. It is fully legal to buy, own and grow the Cactus, it is only illegal (generally) to consume it, but basically impossible to test and like most other Psychedelic's apparently doesn't show up on standard drug screening urinalyses tests.
It is easier to grow that Mushrooms being a regular plant essentially, not as much need to be super careful about how clean you do it. And there is no risk of getting a look alike that is deadly.
Now I will admit there is a huge down side, sure it sucks significantly that you need so much of it, and yet once established it is a fast grower, and maybe it's best needing to pace yourself a little!
The reason I have opted for Mescaline is that to be totally sure that a mushroom spores are genuine examples of the right species I would need to be in contact with someone that grows them and has experience in NZ, and I just don't know anyone!
Where there is no such issue with buying Cactus, I can buy this openly and have bought from two people already, setting up a 3rd sale and can do so openly, can buy it from a garden center, and no risk that who I am buying from might be an undercover cop (not that that is hugely likely, but being quite without contacts you never know).
I have considered buying spore prints, but could get in serious trouble for importing them, and apparently spore prints seldom work anyway.
All of that put it in the too hard basket!
If laws were sane, then yes, Mushrooms would be an excellent option.
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Meschead] 1
#27573626 - 12/08/21 01:09 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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I've sent spore prints to NZ before, to needy folk. They can be easily disguised as legit letters, FWIW. Check the marketplace and make a plea to anybody who has something you like.
You'll have to hang around here for 90 days I think and make something like 20 posts to gain access, but totally worthwhile. 
But what you say about mescaline makes sense in terms of sourcing, however I've never tried it (only Psilocybin species).
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Tom66
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27596163 - 12/27/21 10:05 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Whilst I would agree that psychedelics can be an incredible tool when used correctly, and are stigmatised greatly (due to being illegal and reported on hysterically by the media), I don't think allowing every man and his dog to grow and use them as they please would be a good thing.
In an ideal world every man and his dog would be educated enough on how to use them properly as medication, but they aren't. They are an extremely powerful drug, that not used properly, does have potential for harm, or at the very least, is wasted.
As with everything like this (weed being a very relevant example), legalising and liberating only works alongside proper knowledge. I think we are a long way from that. At least here in the UK.
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Rhizomorph
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Tom66] 1
#27596515 - 12/27/21 04:39 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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So the alternative is what exactly? Prohibiting personal production/cultivation only leads to greater harms...
All forms of prohibition at every level are substantially worse. Usually the harms of prohibiting cultivation are simply the same harms in a licit system of production with the added harms produced by criminality.
The research has demonstrated countless times that allowing or disallowing every man and his dog to grow mushrooms has 0 impact on the realities of how much mushroom cultivation occurs. Meanwhile, the harms espoused by criminal markets are substantial under prohibition. As such, prohibition has 0 relevance in conversations about reducing drug-related harms. The only relevance is with regards to the harms of criminality, lack of education, victimization, stigma, and reduced autonomy under the prohibitionist system.
Every man and his dog should therefore be allowed to grow mushrooms to minimize harms and maximize benefits.
Quote:
Tom66 said: legalising and liberating only works alongside proper knowledge. I think we are a long way from that. At least here in the UK.
I agree that education should be part of whatever regulatory system is employed. Unfortunately if the criterion you are using to determine when/if we should legalize drugs (or mushroom cultivation in this case) is how educated people are, well then legalization will never occur... This is a catch 22; criminalization by default restricts education and so the only way to have the majority of people be properly educated is to legalize cultivation in the first place.
I also believe we understand more than you might think about the relative safety of psychedelics, including across different populations. As a psychedelic researcher, I am more interested in how drug policies themselves produce benefits and harms. The main issue I see right now is not that we are lacking safety data, but that regulatory agencies simply aren't familiar enough with the safety data & have not yet developed regulatory policies and procedures that integrate these data effectively. Of course more safety data is always warranted, but I believe we have enough data to say that personal cultivation produces very little harms, and the few harms that exist are propagated by prohibition. Keep in mind that the "just say no" education model (which doesn't really educate) goes hand in hand with drug prohibition.
I.e., the education is there, it just hasn't been disseminated. Prohibition, if you ask me, is the primary culprit behind this lack of information dissemination.
I'd be curious about what harms specifically you are concerned about? Not to assume anything of you, but generally when I hear people purport psychedelic-related harms in drug policy without detailing the specific harms they are talking about, they are usually just defaulting on the dominant culture's attitudes, generally speaking. But this is just a hunch I have - you may be different 
Edited by Rhizomorph (12/27/21 05:23 PM)
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badchad
Mad Scientist

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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Tom66]
#27596579 - 12/27/21 05:30 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tom66 said:
In an ideal world every man and his dog would be educated enough on how to use them properly as medication, but they aren't.
I think this is an important point. It's important to define the use context. As an actual, approved drug, few of the original points in the OP are relevant. However, if we're talking "underground" use, it's spot on. We're at a critical junction though, as a couple states have already decriminalized. If this continues to happen, there will be little pharmaceutical incentive to continue develop. Few will spend the time and effort to develop psilocybin as a drug if there is no market for it and people use mushrooms.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: badchad]
#27596591 - 12/27/21 05:41 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Decrim policies on the street + medicalization in institutional settings can co-exist.
We've been conditioned by drug prohibition to think that drug-policies are all encompassing when in fact, if we step back from this blanket eradication-based approach, there can be interweaving regulatory systems that aim to best meet the disparate needs of people across varying social spaces and social strata.
Hopefully this means that decrim won't prevent pharmaceutical interest.
Edited by Rhizomorph (12/27/21 05:42 PM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Tom66]
#27596819 - 12/27/21 09:38 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Tom66 said: I don't think allowing every man and his dog to grow and use them as they please would be a good thing.
These drugs are awesomely safe and nearly idiot proof, in practice.
Saying they SHOULD be regulated because SOME people might have trouble is like regulating the sale of apples because SOME people won't know how to eat them and choke to death as a result. 
Speaking from experience the legalization (for possession or consumption not cultivation here in OR) makes a HUGE difference in how one feels about the legal ramifications of choosing to cultivate, possess, and consume. And the anxiety attached to that.
This is much like weed legalization has been and IMHO can only be a good thing overall.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27596831 - 12/27/21 10:12 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: This is much like weed legalization has been and IMHO can only be a good thing overall. 
I just wish the bastards making the most money off cannabis weren't the exact same corporate bastards who lobbied for cannabis to remain illegal in the first place...
If you can buy local & from business owners of colour, I strongly encourage it
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PrimalSoup
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27597461 - 12/28/21 01:59 PM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
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Who said anything about buying?
Roll your own all the way.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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CreonAntigone
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27598184 - 12/29/21 02:40 AM (2 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: for possession or consumption not cultivation here in OR
Funny that it is not criminal to consume or have but the inevitable process by which it is generated is criminal.
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



Registered: 04/24/20
Posts: 785
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27598244 - 12/29/21 05:06 AM (2 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Who said anything about buying?
Roll your own all the way. 
Hahaha touché
 
I assume you originally got your seeds from a government authorized vendor though right?? RIGHT??? *Gobernment watch list intensifies*
Edited by Rhizomorph (12/29/21 05:09 AM)
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27598783 - 12/29/21 03:27 PM (2 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
CreonAntigone said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: for possession or consumption not cultivation here in OR
Funny that it is not criminal to consume or have but the inevitable process by which it is generated is criminal.
It's more like a start. All schedule 1 drugs received the same treatment regardless of method of production.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Rhizomorph]
#27598788 - 12/29/21 03:28 PM (2 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Rhizomorph said:
Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Who said anything about buying?
Roll your own all the way. 
Hahaha touché
 
I assume you originally got your seeds from a government authorized vendor though right?? RIGHT??? *Gobernment watch list intensifies*
Uhm no I just paid cash for a lovely clone.
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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Rhizomorph
Psychedelic Researcher



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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: PrimalSoup]
#27598918 - 12/29/21 05:13 PM (2 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: Uhm no I just paid cash for a lovely clone. 
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WhoManBeing
PsychedelicYogi



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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: Asante]
#27598937 - 12/29/21 05:31 PM (2 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Dark_Star said: LSD is far more therapeutic for me as compared to psilocybin/psilocin. As is mescaline.
How do you define Therapeutic?
Agree to Mescaline. That one there sits on top the rest.
I bid Syrian Rue seeds alone over therapeutic use to mushrooms.
Mushrooms fun to dork at the house. I couldn’t imagine any therapy.
“A million different people from one day to the next.”
Why look to a stranger who is there for pursuit of pay in career and see to open up for therapy?
Get a girl and make love. That’s therapy!
-------------------- Hip, hip... WhoRAy!!! Eye was thinking the other day... ahh, thinking never done me no good.
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CreonAntigone
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: WhoManBeing]
#27599201 - 12/29/21 09:22 PM (2 years, 30 days ago) |
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Quote:
WhoManBeing said: Agree to Mescaline. That one there sits on top the rest.
Mescaline just gets down to business. People say it takes a few hours to take effect, that's true for some of it but the beginning starts in minutes for me. It is clear, the messages are unmistakable, the insights are unbelievable.
It can completely neutralize pain, psychological and physical.
It is pretty amenable to microdosing too IMO, and low dosing, middle dosing, everything in between.
The edge of mushrooms though is speed of production as opposed to even the fastest Trichocereus species.
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psilocybinmansions
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Re: Why I feel that The Mushroom should become the primary therapeutic entheogen [Re: CreonAntigone]
#27612345 - 01/09/22 12:07 AM (2 years, 19 days ago) |
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Anything that causes abreaction in the nervous system is therapeutic. Also anything that causes an odyssey is therapeutic because as William James first stated, pure emotions purify the being of the personality in question.
Humankind has not yet realised life is hardcore. That's why hardcore experiences land you in the best places. We still timidly think life to be the work of a benevolent creator or a nanny, despite how hardcore we make it. Life doesn't give you a chance, you just gotta live, starting right now. The sooner we realise that, the sooner we will legalise hardcore experiences.
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