|
mushman1017
Stranger
Registered: 08/27/19
Posts: 168
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
How well does a PC actually kill contaminates?
#26873245 - 08/10/20 12:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
So ive been doing my thing for a little while... and at first had pretty good success... Ive been trying to reuse things as much as possible to keep costs down,going green by recycling materials, etc... but im starting to wonder now that Ive had some consistent contam issues, where my flaws could be coming from.
It seems now that Ive been getting about a 50% clean spawn ratio over the past month or two. At first I thought it was because I was doing G2G and was transferring dirty spawn (which is def a possibility). However, I also noticed that some of my jars already had mold in it prior to me inoculating (after I PC and store in a clean tub with lid on). Ive been using oats for a while now... producers pride. Normally in the past Ive PC'd for about 2 hours... but after these contam issues Ive upped it to 2.5 hours with not much better results.
I have been using metal lids with tyvek material as the breathing filter... however Ive pretty much been reusing these strait from birthing. After its birthed I rinse out the jars, but the filters just have been thrown back in before PC'ing the new upcoming jars. I havent been worried about cleaning or using new ones cause I thought the PC cycle kills pretty much anything in there... Is it possible the tyvek is just getting old, and maybe clogged up, which is preventing proper air exchange to some jars?
I dont think its my technique cause ive been doing the same things I have been from day one... never put anything above an open jar or container, spraying near the openings of containers with iso prior to doing any transfers, etc... Thankfully oats are cheap but this is getting beyond frustrating.
|
Rapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker


Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: mushman1017]
#26873266 - 08/10/20 12:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I'd try swapping to fresh filters and see if that changes things. I don't think they clog but rather develop tiny holes eventually. If you use a large disc of tyvek it might also be warped and not sitting flush anymore.
To answer the question: Very very well actually. 90+ mins at 15 PSI sterilizes to log 6 which means one in a million microorganisms survive.
--------------------
Edited by Rapjack (08/10/20 12:49 PM)
|
Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: mushman1017]
#26873272 - 08/10/20 12:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I never felt comfortable using the same tyvek filter more than twice. I also used two layers.
Try using new filters the next time you pc some jars and see if there is a difference.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
Edited by Tight Lunchbox (08/10/20 01:46 PM)
|
mushman1017
Stranger
Registered: 08/27/19
Posts: 168
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Tight Lunchbox]
#26873374 - 08/10/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Ok cool ill give it a try and toss all the old tyvek discs... Pretty sure Ive reused these tyvek discs at least 10-30 times by now each lol.
Edited by mushman1017 (08/10/20 01:40 PM)
|
Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: mushman1017]
#26873392 - 08/10/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Haha, yeah a tyvek paint suit is like 9 bucks and you can get a shit ton of discs from it, so it's well worth it imo.
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
|
Ganja420Boy
Heroic Doser



Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 1,207
Loc: CoSmoS
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Tight Lunchbox]
#26873410 - 08/10/20 01:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
How long are the jars being PC'ed at "?",you didn't mentionable that.
--------------------
....Synthesized love story or is it just a crazy dream....
|
Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Ganja420Boy]
#26873451 - 08/10/20 02:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
2-2.5 hours is what he says in the op
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
|
Ganja420Boy
Heroic Doser



Registered: 11/15/06
Posts: 1,207
Loc: CoSmoS
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Tight Lunchbox]
#26873465 - 08/10/20 02:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Oh my bad, had quite a bit to drink and looked over what I typed. I actually meant to ask about the jar size?
--------------------
....Synthesized love story or is it just a crazy dream....
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Ganja420Boy]
#26873466 - 08/10/20 02:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I don’t use filters on my grain spawn lids anymore.
|
Tstone
St.of Circumstance



Registered: 10/16/18
Posts: 944
Loc: This Planet
Last seen: 6 days, 5 hours
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Tight Lunchbox]
#26873468 - 08/10/20 02:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
All I can say is, I'm a poly man. Surpassed 1500 jars, not a single tam. Majority of people on here with most reliable outcomes with jars is, old fashioned poly. Just saying... Now, could also be your G2G method, but even though it might be a little inconvenience, I'm a proponent of poly for lids. Just me though.. don't think any tyvek folks can say that. And I get about 120 jars out of a bag of poly, can't get more economical than that.
No tyvek will last 30 PC rounds. Not much other than glass gonna last 30 PC rounds.
-------------------- Wake now, discover that you are the song that morning brings, but the heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own"
Edited by Tstone (08/10/20 02:36 PM)
|
Neowynd8

Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 277
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: mushman1017]
#26873480 - 08/10/20 02:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Mold before inoculation and after PCing? Huge problem...are you venting PC prior to cycle? Does your PC have a gauge?
|
mushman1017
Stranger
Registered: 08/27/19
Posts: 168
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Neowynd8]
#26873834 - 08/10/20 06:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Neowynd8 said: Mold before inoculation and after PCing? Huge problem...are you venting PC prior to cycle? Does your PC have a gauge?
Im using the 8 quart instant pots for my PC... I do it in all sorts of fashions... sometimes after I run it for 2 hours (2.5 lately), soon as I hear its done ill go to the PC and push the release valve so it can release pressure and cool down quicker. Other times Ive let it sit for 24 hours and gotten it the next day. If I do let it sit longer Ive noticed the aluminum foil tends to hold some of the moisture... and the tops of the tyvek are a bit more wet than Id normally have liked. However Ive done all these methods from the time Ive started, and its only been over the past month or two Ive been having trouble with contam.
At this point only thing I can think of is there are small holes made in the tyvek from Pc'ing over and over again, which in turn is letting stuff get in, even while sitting in my "clean box" waiting to be noc'd up. In fact thats kind of been the only way I can see if its worth noc'ing up at this point, is do my PC for my jars, let it sit for a week and see if anything grows inside or not. Hoping its the tyvek. Post office envelopes has been working up to this point, and its a much smoother material than the tyvek suits (started with those but its hard to get them to keep form properly). And fyi I dont really care if someone says I shouldnt be taking shit from the post office. lol.
|
mushman1017
Stranger
Registered: 08/27/19
Posts: 168
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26873835 - 08/10/20 06:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I don’t use filters on my grain spawn lids anymore.
If you dont use filters how do you get it to breath properly with GE and what not?
|
sendmehummus
AT Hiker


Registered: 08/03/20
Posts: 383
Loc: USA
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Tstone]
#26873843 - 08/10/20 06:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Not to mention an absurdly large bag of poly is like.. 3$.. Im poly for life I love it.
-------------------- Be patient and keep it simple.
|
Gan
Wielder of Narya



Registered: 08/26/19
Posts: 927
Loc: Valinor
Last seen: 5 months, 27 days
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: mushman1017]
#26873849 - 08/10/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mushman1017 said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I don’t use filters on my grain spawn lids anymore.
If you dont use filters how do you get it to breath properly with GE and what not?
Loosen the lid a tad
|
mushman1017
Stranger
Registered: 08/27/19
Posts: 168
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Gan]
#26874267 - 08/10/20 11:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Ok so just for reference, ive pc'd and let these jars sit for about a week while Ive had other shit going on... and was waiting for my LC to be ready to noc these jars usp.
4 out of the 24 were bad... 3 of them looked like this :

and one looked like this :

Notice its growing not just at the top but in the middle too... Its still possible to spread from the top down in just partial spots if the tyvek was bad? Wouldnt there have to be spores all over for it to be this rampant within a week? I dont get it...
|
meowjinx
Stranger

Registered: 05/20/19
Posts: 492
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: mushman1017]
#26874280 - 08/10/20 11:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
My money would be on the filter. Sterilizing grains kills the contams that existed in the grain out of the bag/after boiling, but once it comes out of the PC those sterile grains are free for the taking for any microbe that finds its way into the jar.
You could have perfect sterile technique in your SAB when inoculating your sterile jars, but once you move them out of the SAB into wherever it is you keep them during your colonization stage they'd be left quite vulnerable if you have bad filters
I doubt I'd ever use anything other than SFDs when using a filter material for jar lids,but I'm gonna be using Pasty's unmodded plastic lids for my current grow. The peace of mind of not worrying about microscopic tears or improper adhesion of the filter would be so great
|
trippleblack
Stranger

Registered: 12/01/19
Posts: 355
Last seen: 1 day, 2 hours
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: meowjinx]
#26874291 - 08/10/20 11:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
my filters looked moldy, some of my jars are cruddy -from pressuring cooking bad spawn jars then dumping the crud out. i'm pretty sure the pressure cooker kills everything, so your contam is likely not coming from your cruddy jars. i got some jars 6 years old, sealing rings and jar lids that crumble like ash if i press to hard. that never cause contam if the barrier was kept.
|
Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26874312 - 08/11/20 12:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I don’t use filters on my grain spawn lids anymore.
What lids you using these days bro? White plastic?
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Inocuole]
#26874518 - 08/11/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Inocuole said:
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: I don’t use filters on my grain spawn lids anymore.
What lids you using these days bro? White plastic?
Mostly but I did just pick up a few dozen black leak proof ones, gonna see what the buzz is about.
|
jbgtaa
extraterrestrial



Registered: 06/09/19
Posts: 1,785
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Pastywhyte]
#26874542 - 08/11/20 07:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I can see two problems: not properly sterilizing with the instant pot, which isn't your fault, or there's a problem with the oats. Alot of people say oats are more likely to contaminate. Idk the truth behind it but i would switch to millet if I were you (or wbs). The instant pot probably works well enough, but you don't have as much control over temp or PSI, and it may not be reaching full sterilization. Coupled with dirty filters and you've got bad jars before noccing.
-------------------- If the thunder don't get ya, the lightning will. In another time's forgotten space, your eyes looked through your mother's face. Trade List Forever giving away prints. PM at anytime for a free print.
|
Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: jbgtaa]
#26876279 - 08/12/20 03:47 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I have some, I use them for weed though mostly. I didn't think they'd be good for spawn jars since leak proof means no GE at all. I didn't wanna fuck up the nice black ones with SFDs.
|
meowjinx
Stranger

Registered: 05/20/19
Posts: 492
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: Inocuole]
#26876310 - 08/12/20 04:51 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Inocuole said: I have some, I use them for weed though mostly. I didn't think they'd be good for spawn jars since leak proof means no GE at all. I didn't wanna fuck up the nice black ones with SFDs.
Can't you just leave it loosened a little bit? Seems like even w/ plastic thing there'd still be room for adequate GE if you loosen it a bit more than the regular ones
|
Neowynd8

Registered: 06/12/16
Posts: 277
Last seen: 7 months, 1 day
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: mushman1017]
#26877137 - 08/12/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
If contaminates are intoduced after sterilization, they could be dispersed by shaking the jar or more likely dissolved in condensation running down the side of the jar.
Probably lids if you had no problems before...try to determine the psi the pot operates at
Edited by Neowynd8 (08/12/20 04:32 PM)
|
nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,561
Loc: Utah
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: mushman1017]
#26877182 - 08/12/20 04:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Try washing your jars. You say you've been using the same ones since the beginning, and recently you've had trouble even with longer times. Not saying washing will necessarily help, but it's definitely something to try.
PCing doesn't necessarily kill everything, just enough to give the mycelium a fighting chance at colonizing before the other stuff gets to it.
|
Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: meowjinx]
#26877366 - 08/12/20 06:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
meowjinx said:
Quote:
Inocuole said: I have some, I use them for weed though mostly. I didn't think they'd be good for spawn jars since leak proof means no GE at all. I didn't wanna fuck up the nice black ones with SFDs.
Can't you just leave it loosened a little bit? Seems like even w/ plastic thing there'd still be room for adequate GE if you loosen it a bit more than the regular ones
If I'm gonna use an airtight lid just to loosen it, why not just use the non-airtight lid tho?
|
mushman1017
Stranger
Registered: 08/27/19
Posts: 168
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: nooneman]
#26885924 - 08/18/20 12:35 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
nooneman said: Try washing your jars. You say you've been using the same ones since the beginning, and recently you've had trouble even with longer times. Not saying washing will necessarily help, but it's definitely something to try.
PCing doesn't necessarily kill everything, just enough to give the mycelium a fighting chance at colonizing before the other stuff gets to it.
Ya Ive already tried replacing the tyvek filters and i still get contam in it... only thing left to try is making new jars completely in case there are any contams left on the under side of the lid, even after washing it away. Other than that, Ive got no clue what else it could be... my prep work is the same that Ive been doing from the beginning.
|
Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,809
Loc: Canada
|
Re: How well does a PC actually kill contaminates? [Re: mushman1017]
#26886217 - 08/18/20 07:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
mushman1017 said:
Quote:
nooneman said: Try washing your jars. You say you've been using the same ones since the beginning, and recently you've had trouble even with longer times. Not saying washing will necessarily help, but it's definitely something to try.
PCing doesn't necessarily kill everything, just enough to give the mycelium a fighting chance at colonizing before the other stuff gets to it.
Ya Ive already tried replacing the tyvek filters and i still get contam in it... only thing left to try is making new jars completely in case there are any contams left on the under side of the lid, even after washing it away. Other than that, Ive got no clue what else it could be... my prep work is the same that Ive been doing from the beginning.
Tyvek is generally considered to be only good for one run. I wouldn’t reuse a tyvek filter.
|
|