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Offlinekoods
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: 1uptoadstool] * 1
    #26872916 - 08/10/20 09:11 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It doesn't have to be a marxist.  Any college professor could easily teach that.




I guess but "white privilege" is a term used in Critical Theory which is a marxist critique of society.




Who cares? Marxism has zero relevance in American society


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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: koods]
    #26872961 - 08/10/20 09:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It doesn't have to be a marxist.  Any college professor could easily teach that.




I guess but "white privilege" is a term used in Critical Theory which is a marxist critique of society.




Good point. Critical theory had it's orgins in Frankfurt School Marxism
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
It doesn't have to be a marxist.  Any college professor could easily teach that.




I guess but "white privilege" is a term used in Critical Theory which is a marxist critique of society.




Who cares? Marxism has zero relevance in American society




Somewhat, but it has an enormous hold on academic social thought. But it's not the kind of Marxism you learn about in undergraduate college. It has less to do with economics and more to do with cultural studies. In the last 40 years academic Marxism is mostly filtered through postmodern social theory and it is more likely to come out of English and Communications Departments than Sociology or Political Science, and particularly not Economics.

I can tell you this with absolute certainty. None of these critical/postmodern theory people could relate to topics frequently mentioned here like intellectual honesty/dishonesty or the concept of "the truth", which they view as relics of a bygone era. There is no truth. There is only interpretation. This didn't start with postmodernism. It was already there in Herbert Blumer's symbolic interactionism at the University of Chicago in the 20' and 30's (reality is a social construction), and Sartre's and Camus' French existentialism at the end of the war.


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OfflineRapjack
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: qman]
    #26873007 - 08/10/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
White privilege isn't all a myth, just grossly exaggerated relative to the average white person and average black person.




And more importantly, it's the ultimate distraction to the massive economic classism that's taking place today. When income and wealth inequality is at a 100 year high, I don't blame The Elite for spewing the white privilege narrative as much as they can because it works on an uninformed population.




Race and class have been closely tied in America since day one. A poor white family still has it better on average than a poor black family thanks to mechanisms like redlining which although recently made "illegal" is still being done by banks. The goal is to create an underclass of cheap and forced labor. White people have it worse than before but not as bad as it's already been for other races.

"Ultimate distraction" is a loaded term, there's many distractions that elites place in front of us. We could talk all day about which one we think is the most distracting but it'd just be us sharing our opinions.

The inequality issue is huge and is the sort of thing that makes civilizations fall. Looking at you, Western Roman Empire.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Rapjack]
    #26873027 - 08/10/20 10:36 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Here's a question.

Sooner or later, white privilege, what little there actually is left of it, will indeed go away, if only because white people stopped breeding.

Do you think society will recognize when that time comes and drop the narrative, or do you think they'll keep going and turn white people into the lowest class citizens in society?


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Offlineqman
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Rapjack] * 2
    #26873031 - 08/10/20 10:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rapjack said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
White privilege isn't all a myth, just grossly exaggerated relative to the average white person and average black person.




And more importantly, it's the ultimate distraction to the massive economic classism that's taking place today. When income and wealth inequality is at a 100 year high, I don't blame The Elite for spewing the white privilege narrative as much as they can because it works on an uninformed population.




Race and class have been closely tied in America since day one. A poor white family still has it better on average than a poor black family thanks to mechanisms like redlining which although recently made "illegal" is still being done by banks. The goal is to create an underclass of cheap and forced labor. White people have it worse than before but not as bad as it's already been for other races.

"Ultimate distraction" is a loaded term, there's many distractions that elites place in front of us. We could talk all day about which one we think is the most distracting but it'd just be us sharing our opinions.

The inequality issue is huge and is the sort of thing that makes civilizations fall. Looking at you, Western Roman Empire.




No one is denying the now small difference of median wealth/income of whites relative to blacks, but on a relative basis to rich vs poor, it's extremely minuscule.

The wealth inequality is huge today, but the race inequality isn't anywhere close it.

The Elite will continue to push the race narrative to distract from the wealth inequality. The general public is too stupid to realize they're being suckered.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: qman]
    #26873035 - 08/10/20 10:41 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Rapjack said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
White privilege isn't all a myth, just grossly exaggerated relative to the average white person and average black person.




And more importantly, it's the ultimate distraction to the massive economic classism that's taking place today. When income and wealth inequality is at a 100 year high, I don't blame The Elite for spewing the white privilege narrative as much as they can because it works on an uninformed population.







Race and class have been closely tied in America since day one. A poor white family still has it better on average than a poor black family thanks to mechanisms like redlining which although recently made "illegal" is still being done by banks. The goal is to create an underclass of cheap and forced labor. White people have it worse than before but not as bad as it's already been for other races.

"Ultimate distraction" is a loaded term, there's many distractions that elites place in front of us. We could talk all day about which one we think is the most distracting but it'd just be us sharing our opinions.

The inequality issue is huge and is the sort of thing that makes civilizations fall. Looking at you, Western Roman Empire.




No one is denying the now small difference of median wealth/income of whites relative to blacks, but on a relative basis to rich vs poor, it's extremely minuscule.

The wealth inequality is huge today, but the race inequality isn't anywhere close it.

The Elite will continue to push the race narrative to distract from the wealth inequality. The general public is too stupid to realize they're being suckered.






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Offlineqman
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873046 - 08/10/20 10:45 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Here's a question.

Sooner or later, white privilege, what little there actually is left of it, will indeed go away, if only because white people stopped breeding.

Do you think society will recognize when that time comes and drop the narrative, or do you think they'll keep going and turn white people into the lowest class citizens in society?




As long as whites are a majority demographic, they will remain under attack.


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OfflinePsilynut2
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: qman] * 2
    #26873061 - 08/10/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Under attack ?
  Ya I’m white and I’m not feeling it , seems like racist white assholes are under attack , it’s not all white people though .


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26873092 - 08/10/20 11:10 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
White privilege isn't all a myth, just grossly exaggerated relative to the average white person and average black person.



I don't know if you ever ran into a poster named XUL, but he thought he'd be a smart ass and said this:

Quote:

XUL said:
Nobody in this thread has proven white privilege exists. Nobody offered an alpha level, methodology, results, or bothered to explain even one study.




So he was given this, showing with 99.99% confidence that white privilege exists, because white sounding names received 50 percent more callbacks for interviews than black sounding names with IDENTICAL resumes.

That's pretty significant if you ask me.


Though I also agree with qman that inequality between the extremely wealthy and the rest of us is an even more important issue, but maybe that's because I'm white.


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I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26873104 - 08/10/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

If you want one specific study, just take a look at Enlil's post (as just one of MANY examples).  It links to a study showing that white sounding names receive 50 percent more callbacks for interviews than black sounding names.  The p-value for this study based on the study's sample size of 2445 resumes is 0.0000 (Table 1).  That means there is >99.99% confidence of white privilege.




As a business owner I actually have a counter-argument to this.

I've worked with and bumped heads with enough people to know that certain demographics in certain areas wind up getting fired or quitting more often than others do. If you're talking calculated risks for hiring new people and you can increase your chances of your new employees not getting fired or quitting from say 70% to 85%, you're going to make adjustments to who you hire. You're going to discriminate.

I don't find this immoral. I find it amoral. If your goal as a business is to maximize your profits, strategically there is logic behind studying demographics IF there are any differences to be found.

Now, if there isn't differences to be found, it could be chalked up as racism. But some demographics, at least in some areas of the nation, wind up getting fired or quitting more often than others. At least to the personal experience of many business owners.


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/10/20 11:19 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873113 - 08/10/20 11:26 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
As a business owner I actually have a counter-argument to this.

I've worked with and bumped heads with enough people to know that certain demographics in certain areas wind up getting fired or quitting more often than others do. If you're talking calculated risks for hiring new people and you can increase your chances of your new employees not getting fired or quitting from say 70% to 85%, you're going to make adjustments to who you hire. You're going to discriminate.

I don't find this immoral. I find it amoral. If your goal as a business is to maximize your profits, strategically there is logic behind studying demographics IF there are any differences to be found.



So now you've just admitted in no uncertain terms that white privilege exists.

If people have identical resumes, you can't KNOW for certain that the white candidate is better than the black candidate; that's an assumption you make, and that's white privilege.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26873118 - 08/10/20 11:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Oh wait, are you just talking about NAMES? Like anonymous names? I may have misread then.

EDIT: I'm definitely saying businesses discriminate on race in order to maximize their profits. I've never done it my self, but I've observed it being done. However, I don't know if I could call it "white privilege" when in some cases Asians have been prioritized. :lol:


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/10/20 11:30 AM)


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873123 - 08/10/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Black sounding names, yes.

You just gave a business reason why you'd favor whites in the hiring process.  But you favoring whites IS white privilege.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26873125 - 08/10/20 11:32 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I actually didn't say whites, I said most capable demographic, *if* there happens to be one. (Sometimes there is not.) Some businesses keep track of that shit. :shrug:

Asians seem to almost always lead the tech curve, as the best example I can use without getting shot around here. :lol:


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873127 - 08/10/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Also, the NBA is what, 80% black?

Business decisions, man.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873132 - 08/10/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

But the NBA hires based on proven talent.  You select unknown hires based on race.  You just admitted it.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26873141 - 08/10/20 11:42 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Put another way, your basketball example would be like being asked to select a street basketball team from a random group of people.  You're saying you would select the black athletes because statistically you think they might be better, but you can't know that until you see them play.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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OfflineRapjack
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: qman] * 1
    #26873142 - 08/10/20 11:43 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Here's a question.

Sooner or later, white privilege, what little there actually is left of it, will indeed go away, if only because white people stopped breeding.

Do you think society will recognize when that time comes and drop the narrative, or do you think they'll keep going and turn white people into the lowest class citizens in society?




As long as whites are a majority demographic, they will remain under attack.




Correction: Working and middle class whites are under attack, along with everyone else. Upper mid and above are doing decent, and ultra wealthy whites are doing better than they have been since the anti-trust laws were enacted.

The wording you're using is implying there's a genocide or racial oppression of white people happening and that's just not true. Last I checked white men still controlled most of the money and positions power in the US.

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Also, the NBA is what, 80% black?

Business decisions, man.




In poor black inner city culture excelling at sports is one of the few ways out of the hood if you're not among the top percentage academically. It's the most accessible way for a black man to get a scholarship and through that build intergenerational wealth. There are more black pro basketball players because there's more black men playing basketball seriously in general. Just like how most professional golfers are caucasian.

So yeah, it is a business decision in the sense that you want to hire the best you have available.


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Edited by Rapjack (08/10/20 11:54 AM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 2
    #26873145 - 08/10/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Why do people find it so hard admitting their white privilege?

Its both blatant and obvious.

Toggling races between people in the same circumstances makes an enormous difference.

You could fill a sizable book with things that are viewed or handled differently depending on whether you are black or white.

That manual that people use based on your skin color has nothing to do with anything that you represent, just your physical appearance.


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Admitting your white privilige [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26873148 - 08/10/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
But the NBA hires based on proven talent.  You select unknown hires based on race.  You just admitted it.





I can see the difference you're making, and I already admitted that I've observed that some businesses definitely discriminate based on race because it's part of their successful formula for maximizing profits. I have not done this my self nor would I really care to as I don't find discriminating to squeeze out an extra 1.5% profit to be something I'd feel good doing, but there is a mathematical reality that exists in these calculations increasing revenue in some businesses around the country.

I'm sure we agree that the most capable person should get the job, regardless.


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