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OfflineYeetusdeetus
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A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info
    #26872982 - 08/10/20 09:56 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

When I first started with cult I read bods teks which recommend to use the search function and to exclude any posts older than 5 years. I know a lot of people want noobs to just read and utsf but as it is, info regarding this hobby is updated all the time. I’d like to compile a list of misconceptions that often take noobs and even experienced cultivators a long time to learn due to how rapidly info is updated in the hobby, as well as concepts that may not be easily digested by laymen. If you come across info in this thread that you aren’t familiar with there’s a good chance you can use keywords regarding that specific topic to find more information on it.

Some concepts newcomers might not fully understand:
  • Sterilization Window- Your grains are never fully sterilized, endospores will eventually germinate in your grains if not inoculated in a timely manner
  • Bad grain prep can lead to insufficient sterilization of your grains
  • Some batches of grain contain too many endospore forming bacteria to be feasibly used for spawn
  • Too many burst grain can spill starches onto your other grains which will slow myc down, giving competitors a chance to get ahead
  • A warm pour will only work to combat bacteria, not mold.
  • Bacteria will multiply during your grain prep. The sooner grains are sterilized, the better. However don’t rush grain prep, properly prepared grains>quickly prepared under hydrated or starchy grains.
  • A 12/12 lighting schedule is good for myc at all stages


Some of the info here will probably become outdated eventually but until then this list will be useful for a quick reference to get people up to speed

Feel free to add your own tips or to ask any questions regarding concepts in this thread


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #26873067 - 08/10/20 11:00 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

tagged


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OfflineOne of Us
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: maxmush]
    #26873088 - 08/10/20 11:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Bullets 1, 3 and six are news to me.

I've used jars (oats) that were sterilized 2 months beforehand, without resterilizing and it turned out fine, maybe a lil dry, but didn't effect yield too much.

With points 3 and 6, I believe 3hours at 16-19psi will kill anything.


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OfflineYeetusdeetus
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: One of Us]
    #26873146 - 08/10/20 11:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Pastywhyte said:
Well when talking about bacteria and especially thermophyles we need to assume some level of bacteria does in fact exist in your sterilized media, unless you are running a huge overkill cycle. Such a cycle would turn your grains to mush.



Farming practices are what will ultimately determine bacteria count in grains so I suppose that should be noted too. I believe that with cycles like the ones you’re describing, endospores will tend to germinate much later or not at all, this doesn’t mean they’re not present though.
Quote:

bodhisatta said:
planctonic(yes spelled right google will change it on you) micro-organisms are extremely easy to kill. Biofilms are a different ball game entirely. Planktonic means single cells disperse usually in liquid.

I do believe i once read that biofilms can make bacteria 1000x harder to sterilize than planctonic bacteria. Some of these biofilms contain endospores protected at the core. Bacteria in biofilms produces extracellular signaling chemicals that let subsets of the bacteria in the film do specific jobs like become more hydrophobic. Stranger yet is bacteria produce plasmids that float in the extracellular matrix in a biofilm these can enter other bacteria and change their DNA to perform specific tasks. So bacteria in a film behaves more like a multicellular organism than it resembles the single individual.

Poor pre-cleaning of medical instruments before sterilization is a big cause of failed sterilization. Think about trying to scrub the bioburden off of the inside of grains, you cant




Grains are difficult to sterilize in general due to the pockets of air but biofilms make it nearly impossible to kill every living thing in a jar


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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #26873306 - 08/10/20 01:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for the tips! I definitely need to improve my grain prep now... :tongue2:

Also the quote by Bod is very informative. Thanks for sharing!


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:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


Edited by Rhizomorph (08/10/20 01:12 PM)


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OfflineYeetusdeetus
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #26873352 - 08/10/20 01:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Oh yeah grain prep was one of the last things I realized I was doing wrong before I started getting results lol burst grain everywhere


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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #26873608 - 08/10/20 03:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I am definitely guilty of having burst grains lol. No wonder my jars are colonizing slowly :blush:


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:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Rhizomorph]
    #26873713 - 08/10/20 05:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Sterilization Window- Your grains are never fully sterilized, endospores will eventually germinate in your grains if not inoculated in a timely manner
    ^From experience I have left jars for an extended period of time bellow six months with no visible contams or any further contamination either bacterial or mold. Though the jars usually dry out after the 6 month period rendering them useless.

Bad grain prep can lead to insufficient sterilization of your grains
    ^Yeah this is a no brainer you gotta be precise with your prep method

Some batches of grain contain too many endospore forming bacteria to be feasibly used for spawn
    ^I believe RR had said that we ought to not worry too much about endospores, a 4hr-6hr grain soak is usually enough to hydrate them so you can sterilize.

Too many burst grain can spill starches onto your other grains which will slow myc down, giving competitors a chance to get ahead
    ^Don't over hydrate your grain, I am unsure about the starches effecting colonization, but soppy wet burst grains will hinder always.

Bacteria will multiply during your grain prep. The sooner grains are sterilized, the better. However don’t rush grain prep, properly prepared grains>quickly prepared under hydrated or starchy grains.
    ^While hydrating your grains bacteria endospores will germ and begin to spread, 6hr grain soak you don't have a large number of bacteria, the old method of 24hr grain soak leaves you will a really smelly mess and a large chance of burst grains.

A 12/12 lighting schedule is good for myc at all stages
    ^yes this statement is fact ime.


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OfflineYeetusdeetus
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: mushhead]
    #26873766 - 08/10/20 05:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Endospore count will vary from batch to batch of grain due to farming practices. People with lots of experience will sometimes get bags of grain that cannot be colonized before bacteria takes hold.

Different grains sometimes require different prep methods


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OfflineBiscuits
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Yeetusdeetus] * 2
    #26873784 - 08/10/20 05:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:takingnotes:

Also can we finally dispel this myth of side-pinning due to light? I still see people posting with paint or some kind of wrapping on the outside of their tub around the substrate... The only way to stop side/bottom pinning is by making conditions preferable at the top, with proper surface conditions / tapping the sides down during spawn.


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OfflineYeetusdeetus
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Biscuits]
    #26873788 - 08/10/20 06:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:whathesaid:


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InvisibleRhizomorph
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Biscuits] * 1
    #26874027 - 08/10/20 08:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

This is a good one... It would be awesome to get a mega-list of common cultivation myths & things that people do that truly don't do anything for your grow.

Using peroxide would obviously be included in this list if it were made :rolleyes:


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:cookiemonster: Major Issues in the Psychedelic Movement: Why 'Psychedelic People' and the Psychedelic Movement Sucks:elmo:

:awesomenod: Easiest No-Pour Agar Method: Alien's Holy Grail No pour Agar unmodified containers:awesomenod:


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #26874073 - 08/10/20 08:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yeetusdeetus said:
Endospore count will vary from batch to batch of grain due to farming practices. People with lots of experience will sometimes get bags of grain that cannot be colonized before bacteria takes hold.

Different grains sometimes require different prep methods



differing prep methods sure, however in my six years of being a member here I've never had an issue caused by unclean grain as long as I follow prep techniques carefully.
I've done oats, rye, millet, wbs, wheat, brf, and even popcorn with a lot of success.
My few failures have all been bad techniques used when dropping agar on grain.
Once I even used some really bad LC. But never have I had any issues from endospores and their parent bacteria. :shrug:


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Invisiblemaxmush
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: mushhead]
    #26874116 - 08/10/20 09:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Off the top:

1. light is good at every stage (12/12 6500k)
2. go straight to fruiting (growing) conditions
3. FAE immediately after spawning to bulk
4. tape/paint to stop side-pinning NOT necessary
5. no "incubation phase" 80f and sealed up or taped holes
6. coir/verm does NOT have to be pasteurized
7. fanning and misting daily unnecessary (especially for the first 2 weeks) if the sub and FAE is dialed in properly 
8. agar is a necessity, not an option for full yields and mitigating contams
9. there is NO best grain, use what you can get and prep properly. Rye, oats, millet, popcorn all work
10. keep temp between 20-24c at all stages
11. all sub-species of cubes have the same growing conditions (exception may be PE)
12. 1:2 to 1:4 sub:spawn ratios all work
13. casing NOT needed for all sub-species save PE
14. field capacity is the most critical variable over a "perfect formula"
15. rhizo is preferred but not critical, tomentose also fruits well
16. do NOT use h202 at any stage. Try to correct procedure and conditions
17. do NOT add nutes after or during spawning to bulk
18. coir/verm is is perfect, no need for poo or anything else
19. add gypsum if you want
20. lime should be used with caution
21. tap water is fine, no need for filtered water
22. grains can be prepared in advance and will last and be viable for weeks (just look out for contams before inoculation). I have successfully used grain prepared a month in advance
23. trich contam cant really be "fixed"

That's all for now as its just off the top of my head.


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Disclaimer: all information presented is intended for educational purposes only. All photos are only representations and not directly from the user.


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InvisibleThe Fresh PrintsS
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: maxmush] * 1
    #26874221 - 08/10/20 10:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Cobweb is not a common contam.


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Offlinemeowjinx
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: The Fresh Prints] * 1
    #26874302 - 08/11/20 12:08 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Not really a methodology-related inaccuracy, but it bugs the hell out of me every time I see the word "contaminate" used as a noun. The proper term is "contaminant"

Unwanted microbes are called CONTAMINANTS. Contaminate is a verb

Contaminants contaminate grows. Contaminates do not contaminate grows


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #26874310 - 08/11/20 12:21 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yeetusdeetus said:
Endospore count will vary from batch to batch of grain due to farming practices. People with lots of experience will sometimes get bags of grain that cannot be colonized before bacteria takes hold.

Different grains sometimes require different prep methods




That'll be me.  I've had a few batches of oats where clean agar refused to leap off onto the grain because it was so bacterial even after 2 hrs @ 20psi.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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OfflineYeetusdeetus
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Inocuole]
    #26876833 - 08/12/20 12:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I really wanna get a nice clean bag of oats, the prep is so easy


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: A thread for correcting outdated/inaccurate info [Re: Yeetusdeetus]
    #26877448 - 08/12/20 07:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You want triple cleaned race horse oats then.  Stands a much better chance from what I've experienced.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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