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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: dfwerydfhg]
    #27143808 - 01/12/21 12:45 PM (3 years, 16 days ago)

This is 100% not about cubensis. I am however going to see what happens to cube mycelium when exposed to serenade as a one off due to availability. This thread is more about discovering and experimenting with bacterial colonies found in composted substrates like manure and wood; possibly including experiments with other kinds of bacteria already in use with edible species in the commercial community, like B. Subtilis QST713.


Edited by Stipe-n Cap (01/12/21 01:15 PM)


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OfflinePuduwoke
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27143828 - 01/12/21 12:53 PM (3 years, 16 days ago)

:threadmonitor:


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Offlinethe man
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Puduwoke]
    #27143984 - 01/12/21 02:21 PM (3 years, 16 days ago)

have to read the rest of this thread!  i have been thinking for awhile about using myco soil powders if a guy added to pasturized bulk to help keep contams at bay but interesting applying to induce fruiting as could be used more sparingly spray the surface.

subtilis is common in soil myco and may even be what they have in compost accelerator products.


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Offlinebasilic85
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: cronicr]
    #27143992 - 01/12/21 02:24 PM (3 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

cronicr said:
forget cubes for a moment all together, they likely aren't coprophilic anyway.
Simplify your goal and dumb it down for a moment, what are you trying to achieve?




Very interesting, it could be the key for liberty caps for exemple(simple hypotesis)


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: basilic85]
    #27143999 - 01/12/21 02:27 PM (3 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

basilic85 said:
Very interesting, it could be the key for liberty caps for exemple(simple hypotesis)




Bacteria is likely the a significant  part of the puzzle when considering stubborn to fruit species, active or otherwise.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27144007 - 01/12/21 02:33 PM (3 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Quote:

basilic85 said:
Very interesting, it could be the key for liberty caps for exemple(simple hypotesis)




Bacteria is likely the a significant  part of the puzzle when considering stubborn to fruit species, active or otherwise.



Now here's where we go and find some wild libs, take samples and attempt to separate out the bacteria we find growing upon them.
This would help narrow things down a bit. Just what my microbiologist m8 said yesterday.
I wish I didn't live in the land of sand.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: mushhead] * 1
    #27144019 - 01/12/21 02:39 PM (3 years, 16 days ago)

Absolutely, this is the best course of action. When attempting to find novel relationships between bacteria and fungi its going to take proper laboratories. Should you have the connections I encourage you to take advantage of those  microbiology buddies to lend a hand in identification.

The same samples can even be taken at home, using the same sampling regimen:

"Samples were selected from spent culture medium that had previously produced either high or low yields and the microorganisms were classified into four groups (C-H, C-L, NC-H, and NC-L) according to whether they had been isolated from composted (C) or noncomposted (NC) plant waste, with, high (H) or low (L) yields."

These samples can then be investigated for bacterial content, and tested for correlation.


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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: basilic85]
    #27144108 - 01/12/21 03:35 PM (3 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

basilic85 said:
Quote:

cronicr said:
forget cubes for a moment all together, they likely aren't coprophilic anyway.
Simplify your goal and dumb it down for a moment, what are you trying to achieve?




Very interesting, it could be the key for liberty caps for exemple(simple hypotesis)



Quite the opposite they are very fragile indoors and even naturally , this is why you see them one or two at a time here and there because the mycelium doesnt colonize a lot of area unlike something like a woodlover where you see an entire bed colonized, with libs ive done my best with everything very clean but like most fungi once colonized they seem to hold their own ok but they are slow


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OfflineVeggiesandhemp
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: cronicr]
    #27144844 - 01/12/21 11:34 PM (3 years, 15 days ago)

Interesting idea.

I'm curious to see how well you'd  be able to culture the bacteria, regardless if it has a symbiotic effect. It's something that I have been interested in the past and as I set up my lab something I may play with.

I've used various bacterial and fungal products over the years in agriculture on nearly 30 acres/10s of thousands of hemp plants...b. Subtilis, metarhizium anisopliae, bacillus  thuringiensis, Chromobacterium subtsugae, Reynoutria sachalinensis, Bacillus amyloliquefaciens, spinosad...  and probably quite a few more.. all of these are in commercial ag products.
Marrone bio innovations has many of these in their products if your curious about them.

If I could cultivate my own in an LC it could save me lots of $$.

I think that identifying different bacterial populations in manures is a great avenue to direct some energy.


Good luck with your endeavors.


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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Veggiesandhemp] * 1
    #27149044 - 01/15/21 03:45 AM (3 years, 13 days ago)



After you were going on about trying to use bacteria to your advantage or seeing if it was possible I thought about it. I didn't give much thought to it to be honest, I have other shit going on in life after all. But as I was driving and listening to "Entangled Life" I was on the chapter about lichens. Then some phrase caught my ear and a thought rose up.

He was talking about lichens and how they're a symbiotic relationship between bacteria/algae and a fungus. He then said something like "it doesn't matter the species of either the bacteria or fungus, you can create your own lichen in a matter of days. The key development factor is that the other must provide a service the other cannot. Meaning the fungus must be able to do something the bacteria can't, whereas the bacteria could be photosynthetic and provide energy for the fungus"

He's mostly referring to those photosynthetic relationships in the chapter but if a type of bacteria was able to do something and the fungus able to do something then maybe this contaminated plate is a lichen?

I'm sorry if this is just rambling or whatever but maybe all that's gonna happen is a lichen or something. You're all scientists compared to my stoned ass doing smoke break research, but maybe there's someone to it?


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Wall.E]
    #27149260 - 01/15/21 07:27 AM (3 years, 13 days ago)

Any contaminate bacteria found on your plate will be just that, unfortunately, a contamination.

In order to find anything worth investigating you'll have to grow out some pans, for instance. Using the sampling scheme above collect samples from within the spent manure substrate and attempt to grow out some colonies on agar:
Once colonies form, streak to new plates to be sent away for sequencing. This will at least tell you whats in the substrate. Isolating those bacteria and culturing them separately on agar to observe the interactions between them and mycelium on agar, well, this is an entirely different problem that will need to be solved.

I may have other options but covid is certainly making things difficult.
Bacterial samples can be sent here for sequencing:

https://www.genewiz.com/en/Public/Services/Sanger-Sequencing/Direct-Colony-Sequencing?sc_device=Mobile

This will develope over time and may certainly fail. As I get a better understanding of the reality of the situation I may find that this is a total dead end, or perhaps not. Either way I'm doing something that I find  interesting.

As far as growing lichens via cubensis mycelium and contaminate bacterial infections....I'm afraid not.

Folks send mycelial samples to Alan for PCR identification. Although this is admittedly more complicated I think that it has potential to add valuable information to our understanding of what's going on behind the scenes.


Edited by Stipe-n Cap (01/15/21 07:37 AM)


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InvisibleWall.E
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27149314 - 01/15/21 08:22 AM (3 years, 13 days ago)

I'm not trying to do anything man, the only place that plate is going is the garbage. I'm just providing some clicky my brain had whether right or wrong. Good luck


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Wall.E]
    #27149331 - 01/15/21 08:33 AM (3 years, 13 days ago)

No offense brother. The medium we're using to communicate doesn't translate tone or inflection. I totally think that those stoned moments of insight are definitely something to pay attention to and communicate, you never know when you're going to get some stoned shower thought that opens up a new door of perception for you or others. Thought experiments are still experiments :thumbup:

I don't mean to sound like a dismissive asshole or anything, I'm just trying to be as to the point as I can get so that there's no misunderstanding, arguing or bickering over minutiae, which can happen from time to time on the boards. Trouble shooting an idea is a matter of trial and error, mostly error, feel free to post your thoughts.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27153806 - 01/17/21 04:07 PM (3 years, 11 days ago)

Somebody who claims to have a mushroom substrate probiotic containing Bacillus.

https://www.drmyc.com/


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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27155076 - 01/18/21 10:07 AM (3 years, 10 days ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Like I said, if good enough is good enough for you, well, good.

Cubes aren't the focus here, just to be clear. Why do pans need manure? Almost certainly because of bacteria. Cubes, pans, whatever species you care to name will most certainly have formed a symbiotic relationship with bacteria and I am going to try to find out which ones. My starting point is logical, I'll start with known species of bacteria used within the gourmet and agro community, if they fail, well, I'll keep looking.

Yes, you can grow a shit ton of mushrooms, but is that what makes you happy? If it does, good, I on the otherhand have a "lab" and I certainly intend to max out its potential.

So, why bother saying "why bother"? it is what it is. This threads purpose is to experiment with inoculation procedures that venture outside the norm, is it necessary for growing mushrooms? Big nope. Is it fucking cool to think and experiment? Resounding yes.

Even if I fail in my attempts, I have still found an answer.



Have you heard of this product called DRMyc that contains beneficial bacteria etc? It is really good stuff, google it


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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Mycostotle]
    #27155078 - 01/18/21 10:08 AM (3 years, 10 days ago)

Check the post above ; )


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27167092 - 01/24/21 11:26 AM (3 years, 4 days ago)

Beneficial bacteria sequenced from mycelium grown on fermented woodchips:



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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27167188 - 01/24/21 12:34 PM (3 years, 4 days ago)

How did you determine it was "beneficial" also in what capacity does it cause benefits? Have you shown that species performance is better or worse without that other microorganism?


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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27167365 - 01/24/21 02:27 PM (3 years, 4 days ago)

No, this isn't my work and its not my intention to prove something that already has existing data. I'm just posting these as interesting footnotes.


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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27167389 - 01/24/21 02:37 PM (3 years, 4 days ago)

Well it would be nice to know where the footnotes are coming from and in reference to what. Maybe I missed it but a random chart posted doesn’t really tell me anything of use. This isn’t something I’m super interested in but, I’d still like some Cole’s notes to go with the footnotes. Posting vague references without any specific substance behind them, allowing people to put 2 and 2 together (equals 5 in this instance) to draw some “conclusion” is the kind of nudge nudge junk science we mostly are trying to avoid these days. I’m not suggesting this is the intent but, it is how it comes off. At least to me.

A lot of Pan growers are really into the idea of bacterial relationships being key. I’m skeptical of that however, I also am not really familiar with the genus. If you were able to determine how these bacteria relationships are determined to be positive to the outcome and establish a protocol, it might go a long way to understanding what is or isn’t going on there.


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