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starbones
I'm an alien, I eat uranium.



Registered: 03/04/20
Posts: 1,131
Last seen: 2 months, 17 days
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 2
#27142294 - 01/11/21 03:56 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Here.
Bacillus velezensis.
These bacteria are only being researched because group 1 fungicides like t-methyl are ineffective against trichoderma aggressivum and an alternative is needed.
Nobody on this board is capable of culturing bacteria in a way they could isolate colonies of bacillus subtilis or velezensis, save for maybe bod I guess I dunno what he does for a living. Nobody. You need very, very specialized and very very expensive equipment to do this.
T-methyl is the gold standard for non-OMRI certified aviation butthole farming. Nothing else comes close to its effectiveness or the yields.
You think I'm trying to shit on your parade but I'm not. I'm telling you that if you want a solution to green molds then it's t-methyl or another group 1 fungicide. There's no point though because costs are nearly the same. As RR and Workman did 15 years ago you can have spawn treated with t-methyl open to the air for days and still inoculate them with live mycelium. It's just not needed.
We use clean spawn and a contamination RESISTANT (Not proof, fuck anyone who disagrees) substrate. These two tools are capable of giving us enough flushes until the mycelium is out of jam without need for anything else.
The only place in this hobby that t-methyl, anti-mold bacterias (Remember, I just paid $1100 for a jug of t-methyl) has is if someone was to go back to horse shit and straw substrates with peat casings. Then, t-methyl has a place. Sure I could grow a casing requiring variety like PE and then employ the t-methyl but why? We have the tools needed to move PAST the problems of yesteryear that come with horse shit and straw. Perhaps this has a place in pan farming.
I'm out. Bacillus sutilis is old hand and meant for farming white butts, the work done to get the hobby to this point is enough that many have zero physical room in their monotubs for more fruits. Zero. Physical. Room.
-------------------- Listen, I'm steel fisted with the iron lung Heavy metal ballads out the guitar where lions run.
 
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mushhead
Potato Devourer



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Dimension X-124
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: starbones]
#27142301 - 01/11/21 04:01 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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 I had to fact check this but its true.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: starbones]
#27142311 - 01/11/21 04:08 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Ok so let's be clear. There is absolutely no room whatsoever for experimentation with bacteria?
Coir, verm, clean spawn. Thats all there is to all of our endeavors? Even if its pointless to know, there's nothing to be discovered?
I made a post saying that I want to culture bacteria just to see what happens...best possible outcome, reduction in trich, worst outcome and the most likely....nothing happens.
Do we need more mushrooms? Like you said, we don't need more, wee grow enough. Literally all I'm saying is that there is a legal industry that uses bacterial cultures, am I capable...who knows, guess ill find out; is it absolutely useless? Maybe. Growing tub after tub of mushrooms is fun, but I'd like to try engaging in some other activities. Do you guys agree? Definitely not thats just fine. I've generated a thread, I'll post my failures. Either way I will have satiated my curiosity.
Clean spawn has not been challenged, relax guys. I want to culture some bullshit spray from the garden center and see how that affects my spawn. That is all.
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EZPZyaBZ
J u s t V i s i t i n g

Registered: 01/10/21
Posts: 133
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#27142319 - 01/11/21 04:13 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: Hey, thanks for you clean spawn input, guy who registered last year. Very nice work.
I can't speak for the guy that was directed towards, but some of us just blew our op-sec and decided to start new accounts. I've always enjoyed your posts.
Please don't let anybody dissuade you from trying this. I'm rolling heavy with anybody that volunteers their time to expand our collective knowledge and skillset. 
Bah-humbuggers : Get Down, or Lay Down. Even if we don't think it will work why not structure our input in such a way as to encourage people with the time and wherewithal to experiment for our potential mutual benefit rather than putting him on the defensive? Using your intellect or supposed superior knowledge on a topic, whether earned or only perceived, to stifle the next mans creative thought processes is really stupid for people so smart and only serves to hamstrings us all. The next thing he comes up with might be a game changer and we'd never know because we spent so much time shitting on people's train of thought and they might not share the next one. The particulars of this case aside, when things pan out in an unanticipated way don't we all gain?
Just saying. Can't we all get along?
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27142326 - 01/11/21 04:18 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Don't go cry there's no room for experimentation. If this thread were built better it would have got better reception. Same goes if your attitude was more cool over the last three pages.
Generally a thread like this goes two ways. This way because OP is looking for a fight. Or well thought out with some more content
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mushhead
Potato Devourer



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Dimension X-124
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: EZPZyaBZ]
#27142332 - 01/11/21 04:20 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I'm all for it, if we find some kind of magic bacteria that is best friends with cubes that'll eat all the baddies cubes hate then wonderful!! I'm too down to find out if this is a thing. I'm just not as great a microbiologist as my other colleagues.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: mushhead]
#27142336 - 01/11/21 04:21 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Says go google it bro. I google shit all the time but kind of wanted to know what p9 thought was compelling.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: bodhisatta] 2
#27142340 - 01/11/21 04:23 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Don't go cry there's no room for experimentation. If this thread were built better it would have got better reception. Same goes if your attitude was more cool over the last three pages
You're probably right, bod. Can't say that I'm much of a scholar, I do what I can. My attitude may be off as well, I'm willing to accept that, especially due to the fact that I'm on my theird bottle of wine; having said that however, I'm sure you can forgive me bod, you old rascal. We all know that we're both a couple of cunts from time to time. No hard feelings, fellas.
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bw86
Doesn't play well with others


Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 5,937
Loc: 7b
Last seen: 1 day, 26 minutes
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27142460 - 01/11/21 05:35 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Josex
#cheat_code


Registered: 11/13/15
Posts: 8,995
Loc:
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: bw86]
#27142464 - 01/11/21 05:37 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Wasn't that bod's avatar some years ago?
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bw86
Doesn't play well with others


Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 5,937
Loc: 7b
Last seen: 1 day, 26 minutes
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Josex]
#27142470 - 01/11/21 05:39 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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it was somebodys... i don't remember who.
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Tight Lunchbox
Drunk cat


Registered: 11/06/16
Posts: 2,116
Last seen: 4 months, 7 days
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Josex]
#27142485 - 01/11/21 05:51 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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lol i think you're right
-------------------- "it's all a joke between mom contractions and coffin fittings" The most useful tool for noobs
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 7 days
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Tight Lunchbox]
#27142497 - 01/11/21 05:59 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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forget cubes for a moment all together, they likely aren't coprophilic anyway. Simplify your goal and dumb it down for a moment, what are you trying to achieve?
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  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: cronicr]
#27142509 - 01/11/21 06:12 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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I want to identify any organism that can be utilized in any stage of active mushroom production, without any specific outcome or application. Any outcome, any application is interesting. There must be something going on with beneficial organisms that we aren't tapping into. The best place for me to begin is with what is readily available, serenade is ubiquitous. It likely will not work, but then again none of us can say until it's been attempted and ruled out.
I have some indirect connections to large producers of edible mushrooms, I will try anything that they use to see if there can be an overlap in practices.
I'm very open to suggestions, however ridicule for the sake of ridicule seems short sighted.
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mushhead
Potato Devourer



Registered: 08/22/14
Posts: 2,215
Loc: Dimension X-124
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27142514 - 01/11/21 06:18 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Honestly start with location, where the cubensis was found, and take samples of that wild cubensis. Grow it out on agar, not biopsy style but just throw a small chunck of the surface onto agar. Separate the bacteria and then with a little experimentation you could find ones that help out. This is just what me and my m8 here who is a microbiology major are talkin' over. essentially he saying what you're looking for is a bacteria that uses the mycelium as a highway without damaging it, one which attacks other fungus/bacteria. He's actually going way over my head but I'm trying to translate.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: mushhead]
#27142521 - 01/11/21 06:24 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Yeah thats definitely a great idea. I unfortunately live in Canada and movement is restricted.
So I'm going to make my first attempts with what I have available, if I had the proper training I would attempt to replicate what was done in the OP by isolating bacteria found clinging to the mycelial plane. Perhaps you can recruit your friends if you're interested. This is the process linked here:
https://academic.oup.com/femsle/article/218/2/271/530921
Bacteria from composted materials like manure are the most likely candidates for finding these organisms, should they exist, and its reasonable to assume that they do. If they were isolated who knows what could be possible.
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cronicr



Registered: 08/07/11
Posts: 61,436
Loc: Van Isle
Last seen: 2 years, 7 days
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap] 1
#27142539 - 01/11/21 06:43 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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again if u want better reception aim higher then cubensis, they are to simple to grow so all you will get is arguements, what types of bacteria are our woodlovers living with or things like mexicana
--------------------
  It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn I'm tired do me a favor
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: cronicr]
#27142557 - 01/11/21 07:03 PM (3 years, 17 days ago) |
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Quote:
p9hu7 said: Cubes aren't the focus here, just to be clear. Why do pans need manure? Almost certainly because of bacteria. Cubes, pans, whatever species you care to name will most certainly have formed a symbiotic relationship with bacteria and I am going to try to find out which ones.
Yeah that was my mistake, thats why I added this statement. Cubes are certainly not the focus, dung and wood decomposers are better candidates for sure.
Quote:
cronicr said: ... what types of bacteria are our woodlovers living with or things like mexicana
Exactly, this is a very interesting question and worthy of attention, in my estimation anyways. Nothing exists in a vacuum, most species benefit from fungal and bacterial symbiosis.
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Stipe-n Cap


Registered: 08/04/12
Posts: 7,623
Loc: Canada
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: cronicr]
#27143404 - 01/12/21 09:23 AM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Quote:
cronicr said: again if u want better reception aim higher then cubensis, they are to simple to grow so all you will get is arguements, what types of bacteria are our woodlovers living with or things like mexicana
I've edited the OP for clarity. Hopefully this helps.
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dfwerydfhg
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/20
Posts: 194
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
#27143804 - 01/12/21 12:44 PM (3 years, 16 days ago) |
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Yeah a bit of clarity on what a desired outcome looks like would definitely help the discussion lol. People get all het up at the suggestion that they could be doing something sub-optimal, even if that's not what you're saying. Obviously to improve a well-executed cube grain-coir grow, whatever is added would need to either speed things up, increase BE by making more of the substrate available, or allow the use of cheaper or easier to deal with nutrition.
Personally, in the cube world, I'd love to see some controlled agar experiments. like deliberately put a known bacteria/yeast/mold on a plate with some cube mycelium and see exactly what the outcomes look like. Not likely to improve anybody's grow, but should be interesting regardless.
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