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InvisibleEZPZyaBZ
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27142192 - 01/11/21 02:52 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

:threadmonitor:



Edited by EZPZyaBZ (01/11/21 03:29 PM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27142222 - 01/11/21 03:08 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

If someone asked me point blank if I thought there was a species that had an almost symbiotic relationship with cubes I’d say maybe Pseudomonas tolaasii, it’s only ever a problem when conditions get poor but is always there for when they do. Otherwise they cause no harm so perhaps there is an unseen benefit of some sort? But IME my best grows were also the ones that I was most confident in the spawn being axenic. Is that some wild correlation? Perhaps? But comparing Agaricus to Psilocybe is like comparing a lion to a poodle. Both are in the same order, similar diets, etc. Still very different organisms.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27142229 - 01/11/21 03:11 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Yeah so my microbiologist major friend just stopped by and read the thread.
Here is what he has to say. There could exist a symbiotic relationship between cubensis and bacteria.
However he has no proof other than what is recorded for agricultural use for mass production of mushrooms on farms.
Nothing anywhere states cubes have any kind of symbiosis with bacteria.
You're right p9, seems like this is something worth putting time into.


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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27142233 - 01/11/21 03:13 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Absolutely, but I need a starting point. Like I said, there is something to be said about symbiosis.  Cubes...well, not so interesting to tell you the truth. I would much prefer working with more Coprophilous , exotic fungi ( even though cubes are Coprophilous fungi)

This is an intellectual endeavor. I'm streaking plates whether ya'll like it or not, lol.

Quote:

mushhead said:
You're right p9, seems like this is something worth putting time into.




I have nothing but time on my hands, this has been a question thats been nagging me. Probe, inquire.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27142243 - 01/11/21 03:19 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Subtilis is old news in aquarium biblioteque farming anyways. The new jam is something like bacillus varagenaluminumsiding or something or other.

T-methyl is still the gold standard and as a guy who has a 10l jug that paid over $1100 outta Winnipeg I'll tell you it's not needed. One because it requires casing which I don't do except for casing at spawn where it would actually be a bad thing and two because clean spawn beats all.

Now if I was using horse shit and straw with peat casings? All day long I'd be spraying this stuff. There's no reason to though if the spawn is clean, that means the grains are protected by the myc, the coir I'm spawning to is protected by the natural oils and acids of the coconut. It really is that simple.

Aquanaut billiards farmers are using compost, very vulnerable big casings and that's why bacicillus subtilus and bacillus varageevergeenforest were studied as bacterial fungicides against molds.

T-methyl works though but until I have a massive steel building with 20 foot tall mushroom racks then it's not needed.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: starbones]
    #27142246 - 01/11/21 03:20 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Hey, thanks for you clean spawn input, guy who registered last year. Very nice work.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27142247 - 01/11/21 03:22 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Who in the mushroom growing industry is using symbiotic microorganisms to grow mushrooms with success? That's where I wanted to see this thread start. I'm hearing about these places but not seeing them.

Id be pretty surprised if there's any bacteria that are symbionts with cubensis.


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Offlinebw86
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27142248 - 01/11/21 03:22 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Why do pans need manure? Almost certainly because of bacteria.



nah cause you can grow pans off of Sterilized manure.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: bw86]
    #27142252 - 01/11/21 03:25 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

bw86 said:
Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Why do pans need manure? Almost certainly because of bacteria.



nah cause you can grow pans off of Sterilized manure.



Pans have grown off sterile malt extract petri dishes. Thus proving they need neither manure or bacteria.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27142253 - 01/11/21 03:27 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

bodhisatta said:
Quote:

bw86 said:
Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Why do pans need manure? Almost certainly because of bacteria.



nah cause you can grow pans off of Sterilized manure.



Pans have grown off sterile malt extract petri dishes. Thus proving they need neither manure or bacteria.



This is how I plan to grow my pans... I got two manure boomer bags (because I can't source my own horse manure) which are sterilized.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27142254 - 01/11/21 03:27 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Guys...honestly....

Yeah man, muahrooms want to live. Yeah you can grow them without bacteria lol.

I'm not your research assistant, look it up. It's common practice in Asia.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27142257 - 01/11/21 03:28 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Hey, thanks for you clean spawn input, guy who registered last year. Very nice work.




Was that directed at me? I'm gonna ask you to clarify if that was directed at me because that "clean spawn input" is backed by every single TC on this board.
You're just discovering bacillus sub now, don't know shit about t-methyl and you're going to rot on me about my reg date?

Again, was that was directed at me?


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: starbones]
    #27142259 - 01/11/21 03:30 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Yup, and dude, just because I posted this now doesn't mean I found out about it 5 mins ago.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27142261 - 01/11/21 03:32 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Guys...honestly....

Yeah man, muahrooms want to live. Yeah you can grow them without bacteria lol.

I'm not your research assistant, look it up. It's common practice in Asia.



I mean... we're discussing the subject and I'm sure we're all kinda using google to helps us out here because its not something spoken of often so of course people are gonna ask you stuff m8.

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
Hey, thanks for you clean spawn input, guy who registered last year. Very nice work.



Please be nice to starbones he's extremely knowledgeable and has helped me often.


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Offlinestarbones
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27142267 - 01/11/21 03:36 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Thought so.

The field moved past subtilis long ago. I'm glad you found something on google that excited you but if you're going to be an insulting cock because someone points out using clean spawn and contamination resistant substrate negates the need for anything else then you can die mad about it.

We don't use compost. We use a contamination resistant substrate, not compost. We spawn clean spawn to bulk, contamination resistant bulk. There is no need for anything further unless you want to revert to using horse shit and straw, then the idea of something like bacteria or t-methyl has merit. Until that time pull the megaphone away from your ass and address whatever problems you're introducing to your grow that are causing mold instead of looking for bandaid fixes.

Clean spawn, coir and vermiculite. You will have success with these without the need for anti-fungals like in alligator bisexual farming. If you choose to start using horse shit and straw with a peat casing then let me know and maybe I'll give you a sniff from my jug of t-methyl.

Until that time keep thinking registration date means sweet fuck all.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: starbones]
    #27142274 - 01/11/21 03:41 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

p9hu7 said:
What I'm saying is that is 100% basic information provided to every noob ad nauseum. This is fucking boring. I can make clean spawn with my eyes burned out with a cigarette.

I want to do some science, this is how it's done. I'm not looking for a silver bullet, what I am looking for is an advanced approach to understanding the symbiosis between active species and bacteria, discount as you may, there certainly is one, or else they would not have evolved on dung, or at all.

Problem:

Seasonal trichoderma plagues hobby active mushroom growing community.

Hypothesis:
By Understanding symbiotic relationships between cultivated fungi and bacteria we may benefit the community and deepen our understanding of the species we work with.

You are correct, this may fail, but it may not. If you're content growing cubes ad infinitum then keep doing that. I on the the other hand require a tad more intellectual stimulation.

This is a fun project, I'm sharing it. If you think that clean spawn and sterile technique are the depth and breadth of our trade, so be it. I on the other hand would be far more interested to find more.




Read my posts.

Clean spawn is BASIC. I understand the basics. I can produce clean spawn. I can produce more mushrooms than ill ever consume over a thousand lifetimes should I so desire. What I'm looking for is intellectual stimulation. Axenic inoculation is old fuck8ng news in Asia. We are working with a controlled set of species. Yes, you absolutely 100% do not need bacteria. What I am saying is maybe I  we, could experiment. If you aren't down, cool. I however am.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap] * 1
    #27142276 - 01/11/21 03:43 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

This thread will probably be locked by tomorrow if you cant find a way to stop jumping at everyone who isn't on your dick.


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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: bodhisatta]
    #27142283 - 01/11/21 03:48 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

Lock it now, I'll just experiment on my own.

Fact of the matter is that were all a bunch of guys locked into one way of doing things. That's cool, all I'm saying is that there are other methods, would you like to explore other methods?

The response...why use other methods? "clean spawn". Excellent, you are correct. I'm drunk af, and I can still see that whenever someone posts anything that doesn't follow the formula is shit on. I'm not shitting on anyone for "not being on my dick"

I'm a criminal growing drugs, aren't you?
Seems like you guys have some thin skin.


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Invisiblemushhead
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27142286 - 01/11/21 03:51 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

I really appreciate you p9 for your contribution to the idea that there could be a symbiosis between bacteria and cubensis mushrooms.
I am truly excited to see you do a write up, I will do my own experiments with the assistance of my microbiologist m8's here.
I hope we can peacefully collaborate in the future.


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InvisibleJosex
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Re: Axenic inoculation versus symbiotic bacterial inoculation [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #27142292 - 01/11/21 03:54 PM (3 years, 17 days ago)

You went passive aggressive the moment I tried (politely) to explain why B. subtilis is the last thing you want in a grow, and I am the thin-skinned one? Then you went on super intellectual person condescending mode.

Show me something that can improve the way we grow or make some processes easier and you won't get "shat on" (you weren't) like you said.


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