Home | Community | Message Board

MushroomCube.com
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Mix   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Do these oat jars look bacterial?
    #26871061 - 08/09/20 06:40 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)



Oats, prepped by adding to boiling water, cooking for 30 minutes, spread out and dried in front of a fan for 16 hours until they were dry to the touch, PC’d at 16 PSI for two hours, inoculated using clean agar 14 days ago, shaken at day 3 and again at day 7.

I’ve been losing whole crops due to bacterial contams for like six months, and I cannot seem to resolve the issue.  I’ve made sure my coir is clean by pressure cooking it, so I know the problem is with my spawn, and my sterile technique is good, I’ve had dozens of successful grows and I can get clean myc on agar with no problems.

These only built up the condensation inside the jars when the myc started developing those wispy looking runners.

If these are bacterial, how do I prevent contams?  I’m to the point where I’m wondering if the plastic lids and/or the poly are the problem.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26871071 - 08/09/20 06:51 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

For comparison, here is a batch of oats I dropped with agar on Thursday night (pint jars), and a batch I dropped agar in last Saturday, with one shake on Wednesday once the myc moved onto the grain. (It’s Sunday morning, so 7 days old on the qt jars and 56 hours old on the pint jars).



This what has ended up happening with every batch I’ve tried to make for months.



--------------------


Edited by Ep1429 (08/09/20 07:19 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineOne of Us
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 1,140
Last seen: 25 days, 5 hours
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26871119 - 08/09/20 07:46 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I've been having similar issues. My last couple batches I pc'd for 3 hours, and made sure to cover the lids well with foil.

I am also in the process of upgrading all my lids to leak-proof plastic lids with a whole sfd in each.

Hopefully one of these solves the problem, I miss my monos. Been using shoeboxes because of all my jars have been looking less than ideal.


--------------------
LAGM 2021
LAGM 2020
Trade List


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: One of Us]
    #26871124 - 08/09/20 07:50 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Same boat.  I had 1 jar out of 100 go bad, and every mono I made for over a year grew an oz per qt jar on the first flush.

Now, I can’t even get 1:1 shoeboxes to finish.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejcm4620
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 05/26/19
Posts: 6,700
Last seen: 2 years, 1 day
Trusted Cultivator
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26871142 - 08/09/20 08:15 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

famn thats a hell of a trich farm ya got goin on there. sorry to hear your problems like that. have you thought about switching grains just as a test??


--------------------
PANAEOLUS FRUITING MADE SIMPLE



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: jcm4620]
    #26871186 - 08/09/20 08:43 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Not yet.  I’ve had amazing performances from the oats I use, so unless two out of four 50 lb bags have just been hopelessly contaminated with unkillable endospores, then I am going to keep that variable constant.  It’s far more likely that something environmental or something with my inoculation procedures are screwed up, but I didn’t change either of those variables between successful and non-successful grows.

I’ve been running tests for literally six months.  I’ve tried adjusting ratios of spawn to coir to out run the contams, I’ve tried using both dry coir and dry vermiculite as a bedding for the casing to soak up any excess moisture while colonizing, I’ve tried pseudo casing layers, casing layers, and no casing.  I switched out my new 200 qt SAB and went back to my 110 qt broom closet of an SAB.  I have tried lids flipped from day one and lids on the right way.  I have gone the extra mile prepping my oats, they are perfectly hydrated with zero burst kernels after I spread them out on paper towel covering a cookie sheet in front of a fan for 12-16 hours, and then I PC them for 2 hours at 16 PSI.

Things always go the same way.  The colonization begins as normal, but after about seven days, a yellowish discoloration appears on the bottom of the shoebox, spreads for a day, and then a bubbly white growth appears on the top of the sub, no matter if it has a casing layer or not.  After a couple of days, that growth dries out and then the trich sets in on top of that dead growth.

Edit:  Here is a pic of one prior to the trich colonizing that weird, white bubbly growth.



But the trich is definitely not the killer here.  It’s a second wave phenomena.

Edit 2: Here is a pic showing the yellow discoloration forming on the bottom of the shoebox.  Notice the large patch of white mycelium discoloring in the bottom left. That will definitely grow that weird bubbly stuff by Monday.



--------------------


Edited by Ep1429 (08/09/20 08:49 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineElViajero
Traveler


Registered: 08/16/18
Posts: 295
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26871249 - 08/09/20 09:28 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

i wouldnt suspect much about coir ratios or verm, if the problem is getting contamination early its probably an issue with the spawn jars.
maybe a pic of the agar plate might give us some info, the mic in the jars looks sketchy, maybe they are a little too wet when inoculated?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: ElViajero]
    #26871267 - 08/09/20 09:39 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The grains are not too wet.  They don’t even leave a wet spot on paper towel before I PC them.

I don’t have a fully colonized plate, you’ll have to settle for one that is in progress, but I’ve done this long enough, and have been successful enough, that I know what a clean plate looks like.






This is a second transfer from a clone, you can see it has a trouble spot at 9 and 3 o’clock positions in the respective pics of top and bottom.



--------------------


Edited by Ep1429 (08/09/20 09:47 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCubePusher
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26871812 - 08/09/20 03:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ep1429 said:
I’ve been running tests for literally six months.




Just want to say I feel your pain, I've been in the same boat for just as long (after not really having any persistent problems over the years), and also started to wonder if it may be my plastic lids (especially when they come out of the pressure cooker all hot and loose).  I'll just list off some debugging techniques I've been applying (of course, you may already be doing some or all of this).

0) Keep a detailed journal and look for patterns. In here I keep a big list of ideas for troubleshooting my issues and narrowing stuff down.

1) Switching to LC/LI, and just changing teks up in general. May seem counter intuitive if you can't get clean spawn, but trying something else may help you narrow down your problems or just straight up lead to success, that stuff colonizes so fast it may just outpace whatever problems you have. Personally, I have had very good luck switching to LC as my main method.

2) Omit the leading edge of the agar plate when doing transfers, as nasty guys often live there. Evaluate your A2G technique as this is the most likely vector (IMO) if everything else is really on point.

3) If you're worried about the lids, just try changing them on your next PC batch. I did this, but it didn't fix my problem. Maybe it will fix yours and it's cheap enough to try. I do cover mine in foil when PC'ing now beause they get so loose in there when hot. I'm aware this may be unecassary.

4) Switch grains. I haven't done this, but I may soon. Why not.

5) Does your fruiting environment have adequate airflow? Perfectly still air breeds contams, IME. I had this problem with a couple unmodded totes with lids that were too tight. The same level of scrutinty you apply to your grain prep and technique should be applied to your fruiting env, plus that's one of the easier things to fix.


Anyway, it's a bitch trying to debug a persistant, catastrophic problem like this. Wishing you luck in your future grows.

P.S: do the grains smell bacterial when spawning?


Edited by CubePusher (08/09/20 11:02 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: CubePusher]
    #26872330 - 08/09/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

They don’t smell bacterial to me.  I started with WBS, and when one of them is bacterial, it smells like Satan’s @$$hole.  These just smell like spawn.

And I always leave the perimeter of the agar when I’m taking out wedges.  I have 12 reusable glass Petri dishes where I do all my cloning and transfers, then once I get a clean plate, I use it as a master and do about 10-15 of the 100mm plastic Petris so I have room to take three or four wedges per plate without hitting the edge.

This absolutely blows my mind.  I’ve done dozens of monos, and probably a couple of hundred successful shoeboxes.  Had no problems for like a year and a half, two years.

Then one round of jars went south, and it’s been a disaster ever since.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCubePusher
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26872428 - 08/09/20 09:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hmm.. I'm assuming you're sterilizing the petris sensibly before use. And are you cleaning your fruiting tubs thoroughly, too? There could be bacteria that's been adversely selected to live in your tubs. Or you might have tubs with surface scuffs where the bacteria colonies can hide. You could try going to Walmart and buying (and sanitizing) a new shoebox or two to rule out tubs being the culprit. It may sound ridiculous but after 6 months of problems it's worth a shot, imo.

Along the same line of thought, maybe your pastuerization process sucks, your coir/verm is bad or your pastuerization vessel has a bacterial issue, like the tubs. You could try sterilizing your next batch, changing your pastuerization tek or vessel. I'd even try buying new coir and verm just to be sure.

And your bulk sub isn't too wet, right? Maybe you could go lighter on the water:coir ratio. I assume you know about field capacity (there are a lot of different definitions of field capacity on this site, I tend to agree with the "squeeze hard and get a couple drops, squeeze soft and get basically nothing" school).


It reads like the problem isn't the spawn, so try to definitively rule out the coir/verm, hydration, pastuerization and fruiting tubs. That should be pretty easy to do, and I'm sure it'd be a relief if the problem was that simple after all.

Oh, and does your fruiting box have good air circulation? Still air will invite contams. I asked this in the last post but I'm asking again because it's important.


Edited by CubePusher (08/09/20 10:40 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: CubePusher]
    #26872477 - 08/09/20 10:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The glass ones?  Yes.  The plastic ones come sterile.

I’m washing my tubs out with bleach, and wiping them down with alcohol prior to making the subs.

Tried new shoeboxes.  Nada.

I’m pasteurizing in my PC.  Boil water with the lid on until the button pops up, then toss in the coir and close it up overnight.

I’ve even put that coir into jars and run it at 16 PSI for 2 hours.  Pretty sure it’s not the coir.

Unfortunately, these are among the first things I tried.  I’ve been working my way backwards through the growing process.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCubePusher
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26872500 - 08/09/20 10:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Well, you could get a grow log going; I'm sure people would follow along and help you out more. I'd definately follow it, I'd like to see how your spawn looks between the day 7 pics and the final pics in the OP. As well as some better agar pictures (kinda hard to evaluate them given the quality and inconsistent backgrounds/lighting). The jars do look weird in the final pics and 99% of the time people have problems it's spawn, as you know.

But if not the spawn: how's your field capacity? Maybe try going a little lighter. And does your tub have good air circulation? Still air will invite contams. Also, try upping your PC times to 2.5 hours for oats, I've had way better results with that. Also, are you venting your PC?


And this was all happening when you were doing monos too, right?


Edited by CubePusher (08/09/20 11:09 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineskullhuman
the skullman cometh
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 1,473
Last seen: 9 months, 1 day
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26872530 - 08/09/20 11:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ep1429 said:
The glass ones?  Yes.  The plastic ones come sterile.

I’m washing my tubs out with bleach, and wiping them down with alcohol prior to making the subs.

Tried new shoeboxes.  Nada.

I’m pasteurizing in my PC.  Boil water with the lid on until the button pops up, then toss in the coir and close it up overnight.

I’ve even put that coir into jars and run it at 16 PSI for 2 hours.  Pretty sure it’s not the coir.

Unfortunately, these are among the first things I tried.  I’ve been working my way backwards through the growing process.




Try loading the bulk sub in to jars and steam pasteurizing inside the PC with the lid on (but not sealed).  Use a digital probe thermometer to measure the core temp of one of the jars and keep it in pasteurization range for 3 or 4 hours.  I started prepping bulk subs like this after having problems and I don't have problems anymore.  But it may have been some other unknown variable causing the problems in the first place so idk, just a suggestion.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: CubePusher]
    #26872740 - 08/10/20 05:33 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Nope.

I had zero problems, and then I had a catastrophic problem.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: skullhuman]
    #26872741 - 08/10/20 05:34 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

skullhuman said:
Quote:

Ep1429 said:
The glass ones?  Yes.  The plastic ones come sterile.

I’m washing my tubs out with bleach, and wiping them down with alcohol prior to making the subs.

Tried new shoeboxes.  Nada.

I’m pasteurizing in my PC.  Boil water with the lid on until the button pops up, then toss in the coir and close it up overnight.

I’ve even put that coir into jars and run it at 16 PSI for 2 hours.  Pretty sure it’s not the coir.

Unfortunately, these are among the first things I tried.  I’ve been working my way backwards through the growing process.




Try loading the bulk sub in to jars and steam pasteurizing inside the PC with the lid on (but not sealed).  Use a digital probe thermometer to measure the core temp of one of the jars and keep it in pasteurization range for 3 or 4 hours.  I started prepping bulk subs like this after having problems and I don't have problems anymore.  But it may have been some other unknown variable causing the problems in the first place so idk, just a suggestion.





I PC’ed jars at 16 PSI for two hours.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineskullhuman
the skullman cometh
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/15/09
Posts: 1,473
Last seen: 9 months, 1 day
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26873202 - 08/10/20 12:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Ep1429 said:
Quote:

skullhuman said:
Quote:

Ep1429 said:
The glass ones?  Yes.  The plastic ones come sterile.

I’m washing my tubs out with bleach, and wiping them down with alcohol prior to making the subs.

Tried new shoeboxes.  Nada.

I’m pasteurizing in my PC.  Boil water with the lid on until the button pops up, then toss in the coir and close it up overnight.

I’ve even put that coir into jars and run it at 16 PSI for 2 hours.  Pretty sure it’s not the coir.

Unfortunately, these are among the first things I tried.  I’ve been working my way backwards through the growing process.




Try loading the bulk sub in to jars and steam pasteurizing inside the PC with the lid on (but not sealed).  Use a digital probe thermometer to measure the core temp of one of the jars and keep it in pasteurization range for 3 or 4 hours.  I started prepping bulk subs like this after having problems and I don't have problems anymore.  But it may have been some other unknown variable causing the problems in the first place so idk, just a suggestion.





I PC’ed jars at 16 PSI for two hours.




Bulk sub jars?


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineEp1429
Stranger
Registered: 10/10/18
Posts: 800
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: skullhuman]
    #26873588 - 08/10/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

skullhuman said:
Quote:

Ep1429 said:
Quote:

skullhuman said:
Quote:

Ep1429 said:
The glass ones?  Yes.  The plastic ones come sterile.

I’m washing my tubs out with bleach, and wiping them down with alcohol prior to making the subs.

Tried new shoeboxes.  Nada.

I’m pasteurizing in my PC.  Boil water with the lid on until the button pops up, then toss in the coir and close it up overnight.

I’ve even put that coir into jars and run it at 16 PSI for 2 hours.  Pretty sure it’s not the coir.

Unfortunately, these are among the first things I tried.  I’ve been working my way backwards through the growing process.




Try loading the bulk sub in to jars and steam pasteurizing inside the PC with the lid on (but not sealed).  Use a digital probe thermometer to measure the core temp of one of the jars and keep it in pasteurization range for 3 or 4 hours.  I started prepping bulk subs like this after having problems and I don't have problems anymore.  But it may have been some other unknown variable causing the problems in the first place so idk, just a suggestion.





I PC’ed jars at 16 PSI for two hours.




Bulk sub jars?




Yes.  Field saturated, pasteurized coir, in wide mouth jars, at 16 PSI for 2 hours, then mixed with spawn when cooled.

I wanted to be absolutely certain that nothing was sneaking in via that EcoEarth so I could eliminate a variable.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineshroomflow
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/03/17
Posts: 145
Loc: PNW Flag
Last seen: 4 months, 16 hours
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: Ep1429]
    #26873905 - 08/10/20 07:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

What are your fruiting conditions like (especially temperatures)? Any fruit fly or other insect problems?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineCubePusher
Stranger
Registered: 08/09/20
Posts: 31
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
Re: Do these oat jars look bacterial? [Re: shroomflow]
    #26874201 - 08/10/20 10:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

shroomflow said:
What are your fruiting conditions like (especially temperatures)? Any fruit fly or other insect problems?



I'm also still wondering if his tub has air movement; still air will breed contams.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Mushroom-Hut Substrate Mix   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   North Spore Injection Grain Bag   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   PhytoExtractum Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* how long before sterilized jar spoils? maxlongstarr 3,448 7 04/02/02 09:39 AM
by Seuss
* fashionably late bacterial infestation... auto59009 1,546 4 06/23/01 06:13 AM
by auto59009
* Experiment in saving bacterial rye. Joshua 1,089 2 03/19/02 04:57 AM
by MAIA
* Removing bacterial contam from cake? (kinda urgent) ykk 2,457 2 07/25/02 05:31 AM
by Killa420
* bacterial contam?? flein 1,648 1 06/16/02 09:23 AM
by Karen
* bug larvae in jars di11rod 1,391 3 05/31/02 11:27 PM
by FarmerD
* Smelt Jars for contamination. I was taken to ER!!!
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
JayBin 42,963 110 01/15/21 06:15 AM
by bodhisatta
* Post deleted by MOE THE MAD SCIENTIST
( 1 2 all )
vatoloco 10,090 21 04/30/02 03:27 AM
by Zebedee

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Shroomism, george castanza, RogerRabbit, veggie, mushboy, fahtster, LogicaL Chaos, 13shrooms, Stipe-n Cap, Pastywhyte, bodhisatta, Tormato, Land Trout, A.k.a
712 topic views. 28 members, 158 guests and 38 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.025 seconds spending 0.008 seconds on 14 queries.