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Invisibleblewmeanie
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Re: Masks [Re: morrowasted] * 2
    #26870568 - 08/08/20 07:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

morrowasted said:
Quote:

Hartford said:
Peaceful protesters are exempt from wearing masks according to the POTUS...



since when was anyone required to wear a mask under federal law??



Only Rosie O'donnell*




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OfflineAncient Mariner
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Re: Masks [Re: deadwk] * 1
    #26870593 - 08/08/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Definitely a split issue:
party 1: People unable to accept mortality. High levels of death anxiety. Expects everyone to come to the same conclusions and value the same things as they do.
party 2: People who believe that anything inconvenient to them is tyranny at its most extreme and must be stopped with wining and buying guns. Also very angry, but more pissed off because they are mentally unfulfilled and absorbed in themselves.

I don't really argue with either of these groups but I do wish they could relax and look beyond contemporary events and heated conflicts that amount to nothing but the perpetuation of an ill society


Edited by Ancient Mariner (08/08/20 08:11 PM)


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Invisibledeadwk
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Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 8,890
Loc: Canada, eh? Flag
Re: Masks [Re: Ancient Mariner]
    #26870610 - 08/08/20 08:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ancient Mariner said:
Definitely a split issue:
party 1: People unable to accept mortality. High levels of death anxiety. Expects everyone to come to the same conclusions and value the same things as they do.
party 2: People who believe that anything inconvenient to them is tyranny at its most extreme and must be stopped with wining and buying guns. Also very angry, but more pissed off because they are mentally unfulfilled and absorbed in themselves.

I don't really argue with either of these groups but I do wish they could relax and look beyond contemporary events and heated conflicts that amount to nothing but the perpetuation of an ill society





Yea I dont think you honestly can successfully win an argument like that which is unfortunate. Thankfully in Canada it hasn't been super politicized. In some places, and with small groups of people it has been, but not to the levels that I've seen it become in America.


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OfflineAncient Mariner
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Re: Masks [Re: deadwk]
    #26870657 - 08/08/20 08:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yea I dont think you honestly can successfully win an argument like that which is unfortunate.




A lot of the stuff I discovered does not seem to click with others. It shows me how much a person's experiences shape their beliefs.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Masks [Re: Ancient Mariner]
    #26870669 - 08/08/20 08:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yep it's dumb. I really think being distant and limiting time around others is miles more effective than wearing a mask. After all limiting how much breath you share with others has to limit better than trying to filter that breath (with a mask that doesn't filter small particles) for extended periods of time.


If you ask me... Masks or no masks is not the reason the infection rate skyrocketed in the US...


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OfflineCosmic Eye
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Re: Masks [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26870687 - 08/08/20 09:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Its because America. Seriously tho..


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Masks [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26870689 - 08/08/20 09:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah the people arguing against masks are strengthing the pandemic. More suffering then need be. If 95% of p3ople wore masks starting now it'd save 70 thousand people.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Masks [Re: deadwk]
    #26870701 - 08/08/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deadwk said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

deadwk said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
I'm all for masks but I don't think its possible to crush the curve at this point and thats never what any of the policy makers had in mind when introducing the lockdowns. they were meant to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming healthcare systems.

We should be living our lives as normal as possible as long as we arent overwhelming healthcare systems and keep the most vulnerable people safe.

Herd immunity might be closer than we think. With all the people who are already not really impacted by it without having ever been exposed we may only need less than half of the population to be exposed before case the rate of infections starts dropping. And I know that herd immunity may not eradicate this, but if that's the case then neither will a vaccine and people look at that as a viable solution.

The death rates and case rates are going down in a lot of places regardless of when they ended their lockdowns or even if they never locked down or never stopped locking down.

I'm not saying there is no place for caution, but we need to keep life as normal as possible.





Yea thats fair. My understanding about the herd immunity thing is that right now there's not enough antibodies in the population to achieve herd immunity, and its not clear how many more infections we need to get to that point.



Depending on the prevalence of T cell immunity, herd immunity may be closer than we think.

Sweden is experiencing almost no covid deaths right now and they never locked down and the same drop off is happening in many different places with vastly different approaches to covid.




It would be interesting to look as to how Sweden handled things without having a lockdown; Without doing much research about what they did,  I think its safe that  combination of masks, social distancing, and hand washing had a huge effect.

Interestingly enough it seems like places where masks have become a political issue and not a health issue (America) are exploding in cases.



but they did have a huge spike all at once. (Not big enough to overwhelm the healthcare system though but they didn't do a good job of protecting vulnurable people in the beggining) and lots of death compared to other Nordic countries and now deaths are close to zero. so it may be that not locking down, protecting the vulnerable and letting this work its way through the young healthy population is the smartest thing to do.

america is not really "exploding in cases". cases are declining in many areas and have long since declined in other areas.

plenty of different countries have different amounts of mask wearers and have had different results different results. Sweden is acctually not recomending face masks, let alone mandating them.

Sweden has one of the lowest percentages of people wearing masks at less than 10%. The US is at around 80%.

and as for the hand washing the CDC said surafces arent really a huge vector for this and its mostly from being in close contact with people in enclosed places.

So I really dont think thats why Sweden has so few deaths right now. I think they are simply on the other side of the curve, thats not to say Corona will go away in Sweden but they made it past the peak without overwhelming the healthcare system.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Masks [Re: deadwk]
    #26870702 - 08/08/20 09:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deadwk said:
Quote:

Ancient Mariner said:
Definitely a split issue:
party 1: People unable to accept mortality. High levels of death anxiety. Expects everyone to come to the same conclusions and value the same things as they do.
party 2: People who believe that anything inconvenient to them is tyranny at its most extreme and must be stopped with wining and buying guns. Also very angry, but more pissed off because they are mentally unfulfilled and absorbed in themselves.

I don't really argue with either of these groups but I do wish they could relax and look beyond contemporary events and heated conflicts that amount to nothing but the perpetuation of an ill society





Yea I dont think you honestly can successfully win an argument like that which is unfortunate. Thankfully in Canada it hasn't been super politicized. In some places, and with small groups of people it has been, but not to the levels that I've seen it become in America.



Quote:

deadwk said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
Quote:

deadwk said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
I'm all for masks but I don't think its possible to crush the curve at this point and thats never what any of the policy makers had in mind when introducing the lockdowns. they were meant to flatten the curve to avoid overwhelming healthcare systems.

We should be living our lives as normal as possible as long as we arent overwhelming healthcare systems and keep the most vulnerable people safe.

Herd immunity might be closer than we think. With all the people who are already not really impacted by it without having ever been exposed we may only need less than half of the population to be exposed before case the rate of infections starts dropping. And I know that herd immunity may not eradicate this, but if that's the case then neither will a vaccine and people look at that as a viable solution.

The death rates and case rates are going down in a lot of places regardless of when they ended their lockdowns or even if they never locked down or never stopped locking down.

I'm not saying there is no place for caution, but we need to keep life as normal as possible.





Yea thats fair. My understanding about the herd immunity thing is that right now there's not enough antibodies in the population to achieve herd immunity, and its not clear how many more infections we need to get to that point.



Depending on the prevalence of T cell immunity, herd immunity may be closer than we think.

Sweden is experiencing almost no covid deaths right now and they never locked down and the same drop off is happening in many different places with vastly different approaches to covid.




It would be interesting to look as to how Sweden handled things without having a lockdown; Without doing much research about what they did,  I think its safe that  combination of masks, social distancing, and hand washing had a huge effect.

Interestingly enough it seems like places where masks have become a political issue and not a health issue (America) are exploding in cases.



https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/08/face-off-over-face-masks-europes-latest-north-south-split


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Invisibledeadwk
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Registered: 06/17/09
Posts: 8,890
Loc: Canada, eh? Flag
Re: Masks [Re: BANANA.MAN]
    #26870773 - 08/08/20 11:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/08/face-off-over-face-masks-europes-latest-north-south-split





Good read, although this quote from the article highlights the most important thing IMO which is that you need a combination of everything to


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Masks [Re: deadwk]
    #26870784 - 08/08/20 11:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

deadwk said:
Quote:

BANANA.MAN said:
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/07/08/face-off-over-face-masks-europes-latest-north-south-split





Good read, although this quote from the article highlights the most important thing IMO which is that you need a combination of everything to



I honestly didn't read the article I was just using the graph to support my point about the reason for Sweden's current death rate of close to nothing being that they reached the other side of the curve. I dont think its because of masks when barely anyone wears them, handwashing when surfaces aren't a big vector for covid or social distancing when they didnt lock down.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Masks [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 3
    #26871508 - 08/09/20 12:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I'd say it's not that masks are a political issue so much as Americans are stupid and always fixate on a magic pill to fix all their problems.


--------------------
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OfflineIce9
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Registered: 03/20/14
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Re: Masks [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26871566 - 08/09/20 12:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Just put this here but Sweden ranks 6th in deaths per capita amongst all countries.  Not the place I would pick as my model of success.


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The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Masks [Re: Ice9]
    #26871586 - 08/09/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Lol...

I forget what I was trying to say nvm.


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OfflineBANANA.MAN
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Re: Masks [Re: Ice9]
    #26871630 - 08/09/20 01:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ice9 said:
Just put this here but Sweden ranks 6th in deaths per capita amongst all countries.  Not the place I would pick as my model of success.



thats currently. they had a big spike in the beggining. their deatgs are now at close to zero. we wont be able to compare the death rate to other countries until it works its way through those countries. its disingenuous to compare two different countries at two different stages. if they end up with a similar death rate to most of the world and did it without locking down id say they did a great job.

They havent been overwhelmed in Sweden So I dont see them doing any worse than most of the world when all is said and done. its not like there have been having a bunch of preventable death that would have been prevented had the healthcare system not been overwhelmed. because they havent been overwhelmed.


Edited by BANANA.MAN (08/09/20 05:01 PM)


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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: Masks [Re: BANANA.MAN] * 1
    #26871668 - 08/09/20 01:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

i always wear a mask



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Offlinemorrowasted
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Re: Masks [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26872089 - 08/09/20 06:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CookieCrumbs said:
Yeah I'd say it's not that masks are a political issue so much as Americans are stupid and always fixate on a magic pill to fix all their problems.



the only reason they don't work a lot better is that people use shitty masks and use them incorrectly. they also dont wash their hands correctly.

if everyone wore an n95 and wore it the right way and washed their hands the right way, it would make an enormous difference.


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Masks [Re: morrowasted]
    #26872258 - 08/09/20 08:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

For sure. Do you know where I can find n95


I think it funny the mask I'm currently using is a mesh mask with clips for filters. People on the reviews were complaining about how uncomfortable they were and difficult to breathe out of. I've never worn a mask designed to keep out harmful aerosols that were comfortable or easy to breathe through.


--------------------
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OfflineBikerfool
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Re: Masks [Re: CookieCrumbs]
    #26872414 - 08/09/20 09:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

https://www.amazon.com/pcs-Face-Mask-Hypoallergenic-Comfortable/dp/B08B4B8JXT/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=n95+mask&qid=1597031228&sr=8-8

They're on Amazon. I don't know why the government can't mass produce N95's and send all citizens a few every week. Maybe they don't want to get past this, I don't know.


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OfflineBikerfool
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Re: Masks [Re: Bikerfool]
    #26872418 - 08/09/20 09:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure if those are true "N95" masks but probably pretty close...


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