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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Northerner]
    #26821287 - 07/13/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Well i guess yellow dmt would be better than no dmt

Any idea what caused this?


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
    #26821527 - 07/13/20 05:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

I dunno man, theres a lot variables. There's nothing wrong with yellow spice either, it's just a tiny bit of tannin in there. Still does the same trick.

I've done the same thing to the same bark and got goo one time and fluffy snow globes the next, both from yellow looking solvent. There's something to do with temperatures, soak times, solvent volumes and possibly even freeze times and temps that makes these variables so hard to quantify. The more you do it the more you get how it works.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Northerner]
    #26821562 - 07/13/20 05:57 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Gotcha, ill just keep experimenting i suppose and see what happens :hatsoff:


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
    #26821694 - 07/13/20 07:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

That shit in my freezer does not look right

Do i just re-x the goo ?

Looks like its gonna be a bunch of red oily ass goo


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OfflineIcon
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
    #26821917 - 07/13/20 09:21 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
I got it all in a quart jar right now, dont think i have any bigger jars

I could mix it up real well then sludge half of it into a second jar? Probably make a huge mess




Quote:

Enkidu said:
Wondering if i should try an a/b extraction with the rest of my powdered bark




Yes, you should try an A/B tek, specifically the q21q21 because it's a dry A/B. I know exactly how you feel in that first quote, stressing out looking for a big enough jar to contain a relatively small extraction, bark too thick in the jar, not able to stir in the naphtha, considering splitting it into multiple jars, worrying about making a mess. . .

ALL those worries will be over with the Q21Q21 Tek 2: Fluffy white funfest. Q21Q21 doesn't use unnecessarily large volumes of water. Being a dry tek it is meant to be thick like oatmeal and doesn't need to be contained in a jar because it's not slopping around everywhere. You could do the extraction in a glass bowl, big stainless pot, or HDPE bucket. I use a 5gallon from home depot - plenty high walls to do some vigorous stirring and a you get a lid. I use a ceramic plate the size of the bucket to sort of french press the bark to the bottom of the bucket while I tip it to pour off the naphtha. SO much easier than basting.

Stirring naphtha into a dry tek is more efficient too in my opinion. Like pandemoon was describing, there's only like a 5" sq. plane in a quart jar where the two solvents are in contact, unless you're shaking. With a dry tek, the bark is only as wet as like, sand for a sand-castle. It holds a lot of structure and texture which multiplies the surface area that is in contact with the naphtha during the pull and stirring.


Edited by Icon (07/13/20 09:38 PM)


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
    #26822359 - 07/14/20 05:33 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Yeah ive seen some people talking about q21q21 but never really looked into it only because i didnt have lime

Worth a shot to give it a try and see how it compares


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OfflineNoobtube
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
    #26822375 - 07/14/20 06:13 AM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Is anyone here from SC and would like to go hunting/give me advice on growing.  Iv failed twice so far.


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OfflineIcon
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
    #26823164 - 07/14/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
Yeah ive seen some people talking about q21q21 but never really looked into it only because i didnt have lime

Worth a shot to give it a try and see how it compares



It's worth more than a shot! :lol:
Note, you want hydrated lime, not just lime. Calcium hydroxide also goes by kalkwasser in the aquarium industry, or picking lime in the grocery store.
https://www.amazon.com/Calcium-Hydroxide-Minimum-Purity-Pound/dp/B07R7YGXSJ/ref=sr_1_8?dchild=1&keywords=calcium+hydroxide&qid=1594756928&sr=8-8


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
    #26823313 - 07/14/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Awesome, thanks man! Appreciate the link


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
    #26824725 - 07/15/20 09:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I think theres some water in my dish

If thats the case, once i pull out the freezer, would it be best to let it sit and air dry, usually i tip it

Was thinking maybe dont tip it in case the water might pull the dmt crystals out?

I already pulled it out once and let a lot of the naptha evap for a few hours

Right now theres about 0 liquid in there

Looks like i got some crystals but it looks pretty oily and redish


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
    #26825120 - 07/15/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)



Well this is what its looking like about an hour ago

Been sitting out seeing if this puddle will evaporate


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
    #26829109 - 07/17/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

So it ended up like an old extraction i have, added them together to clean up later



Then pull 3 is this v



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OfflineShroomboofer
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Enkidu]
    #26870259 - 08/08/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Enkidu said:
Well i went to do a pull and my naptha was cloudy as fuck, when i sucked it up the shit looked red/ blackish

So i put it back in and didnt do a pull yet

Not sure why its so dark?

First pull was clear as fuck

Wasnt sure if maybe it needs to settle a bit or will i need to pull and re-x it to get rid of whatever is in there..?



Have you looked into the Gordotek method?  It's easily found on youtube.  Usually results in a pure extraction.  It's not ultra pure like synthesis because it's an extraction, but significantly more pure than than using lye. The only down side is it takes a bit more time.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Shroomboofer] * 1
    #26870290 - 08/08/20 03:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Don't make things up. Sodium hydroxide teks create pure snow like results for the vast majority of people. Lye free teks have been known about for a very long time, yet the majority still use lye because it is a stronger base and an easier route to the prize.

Gordos is a safer tek that's a hybridisation of classic old teks, that is it's advantage. It's still not as safe as naphtha and lye free teks, but cheaper to do.


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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Northerner] * 1
    #26870961 - 08/09/20 04:10 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Don't make things up. Sodium hydroxide teks create pure snow like results for the vast majority of people. Lye free teks have been known about for a very long time, yet the majority still use lye because it is a stronger base and an easier route to the prize.




I agree that a good chemist should be able to get clean results with any base, but there's plenty of reasons not to use lye. A base stronger than 10.68 pH is negligible. Calcium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide are both over 11 pH, so neither is technically stronger in this context.

Calcium Hydroxide is actually an easier route to 10.68 pH too because it releases two hydroxyl ions in water compared to just one with sodium hydroxide; making lime twice as effective as lye, by molecule.

Calcium Hydroxide: Ca(OH)2 --> Ca+2 + OH-1 + OH-1
Sodium Hydroxide: NaOH --> Na+1 +OH-1

And when people don't get snow white results, it's often simply because they accidentally sucked up some lye water with their naphtha. You never see that with lime teks because there is no lye water layer to accidentally suck up.

Lime is noob-proof. Give me one good reason to use lye.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon]
    #26871597 - 08/09/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
......And when people don't get snow white results, it's often simply because they accidentally sucked up some lye water with their naphtha. You never see that with lime teks because there is no lye water layer to accidentally suck up.

Lime is noob-proof. Give me one good reason to use lye.






Can lime be used instead of lye in a typical/simple A/B extraction with out anything else in the process being changed?





-OM

.


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OfflineNorthernerM
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: openmind]
    #26871743 - 08/09/20 02:52 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icon said:

I agree that a good chemist should be able to get clean results with any base, but there's plenty of reasons not to use lye. A base stronger than 10.68 pH is negligible. Calcium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide are both over 11 pH, so neither is technically stronger in this context.

Calcium Hydroxide is actually an easier route to 10.68 pH too because it releases two hydroxyl ions in water compared to just one with sodium hydroxide; making lime twice as effective as lye, by molecule.

Calcium Hydroxide: Ca(OH)2 --> Ca+2 + OH-1 + OH-1
Sodium Hydroxide: NaOH --> Na+1 +OH-1

And when people don't get snow white results, it's often simply because they accidentally sucked up some lye water with their naphtha. You never see that with lime teks because there is no lye water layer to accidentally suck up.

Lime is noob-proof. Give me one good reason to use lye.



Lye is ten times cheaper here, and the extra max ph can help can break down plant matter more effectively if you're not using MHRB. There's two.

Sodium carbonate is over 11, it's no good for DMT extractions. >13 is the usual desired pH.

I've used calcium hydroxide STB in viridis extractions because it doesn't release anywhere near as many fats. That's a good use for it. I'm not sure of the science why.

But sure, lye is certainly more hazardous. It is a good reason not to use it if you're not used to handling chemicals.


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OfflineShroomboofer
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Icon] * 1
    #26871776 - 08/09/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Icon said:
Quote:

Northerner said:
Don't make things up. Sodium hydroxide teks create pure snow like results for the vast majority of people. Lye free teks have been known about for a very long time, yet the majority still use lye because it is a stronger base and an easier route to the prize.




I agree that a good chemist should be able to get clean results with any base, but there's plenty of reasons not to use lye. A base stronger than 10.68 pH is negligible. Calcium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide are both over 11 pH, so neither is technically stronger in this context.

Calcium Hydroxide is actually an easier route to 10.68 pH too because it releases two hydroxyl ions in water compared to just one with sodium hydroxide; making lime twice as effective as lye, by molecule.

Calcium Hydroxide: Ca(OH)2 --> Ca+2 + OH-1 + OH-1
Sodium Hydroxide: NaOH --> Na+1 +OH-1

And when people don't get snow white results, it's often simply because they accidentally sucked up some lye water with their naphtha. You never see that with lime teks because there is no lye water layer to accidentally suck up.

Lime is noob-proof. Give me one good reason to use lye.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but lye is a stronger base that results in more dissolved fats in the aqueous solution, making it more available to be picked up by the naphtha.  Also, the other part of the equation to base strength is the pKb.  The lower the value, the more easily the base dissociates and becomes active.  Calcium hydroxide has 2.43 and 1.4 (value for each hydroxide) and lye is 0.2.  Since pKb is a function of negative log, every decrease by 1 is an increase in ten fold dissociation.  https://www.chembuddy.com/?left=BATE&right=dissociation_constants


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OfflineShroomboofer
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: Northerner]
    #26871787 - 08/09/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Lye is ten times cheaper here, and the extra max ph can help can break down plant matter more effectively if you're not using MHRB. There's two.

Sodium carbonate is over 11, it's no good for DMT extractions. >13 is the usual desired pH.

I've used calcium hydroxide STB in viridis extractions because it doesn't release anywhere near as many fats. That's a good use for it. I'm not sure of the science why.

But sure, lye is certainly more hazardous. It is a good reason not to use it if you're not used to handling chemicals.



I think it depends, my local walmart sells 1 lb of food grade calcium hydroxide for about $3.


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OfflineIcon
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Re: Dmt extraction [Re: openmind]
    #26871821 - 08/09/20 03:43 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Northerner said:
Sodium carbonate is over 11, it's no good for DMT extractions. >13 is the usual desired pH.




Sodium carbonate? You have me confused, I'm talking about hydroxides specifically. But anything over 11 will work equally well for basing DMT.

Are you sure you've searched hard enough for hydrated lime? It's actually cheaper than lye online in USA.
$22 / 5lb Calcium Hydroxide
$35 / 5lb Sodium Hydroxide
Plus you only need half as much lime to get the job done, so lime lasts twice as long, making it 3x cheaper than lye in USA.

Quote:

openmind said:
Can lime be used instead of lye in a typical/simple A/B extraction with out anything else in the process being changed?




Yes, it can. With lime you can simplify it further by needing way less volume of water to complete the extraction. When you use minimal water with lime the bark mix becomes a dry, sandy-clay consistency. Dry-teks can scale up much easier since you can replace all that water volume from typical A/B's with more bark+lime mix. I can extract a couple kilos in a 5 gallon bucket. You'd need like a 20 gallon jar to do that with typical A/B. I think it's a lot cleaner to work with too since you're not sloshing around pitch-black lye water. You can stir the naphtha through the lime-bark like a bowl of cereal, then pour it back out while holding back the bark-lime-clay.

But yes you can do it the traditional way with huge volumes of water and simply substitute calcium hydroxide. It'll work the same and be safer to handle, just unnecessarily wasteful.


Edited by Icon (08/09/20 03:56 PM)


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