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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26868443 - 08/07/20 01:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
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MagicMush123 said: Some people need to use the road though. If you wanna protest in the middle of the road fine. But you should at least have the common courtesy to move for people that need it 
How do you decide who 'needs' to use the road?
I drive a car. So i need to use the road to get home. I drive a car i need it to go work. I drive a car and moms sick so i need to visit her. I need a car and my destination is 20 miles away. I need to use a car and i need to use the road
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26868444 - 08/07/20 01:56 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Dude for real what do you think a picket line is?
The whole point of pickets is to stop people from accessing a business or area. This is like foundational to the 1st amendment right to protest.
Do you guys even think before you bend over for authoritarians?
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26868446 - 08/07/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: That's literally how protest works. You make ignoring the injustice such an inconvenience, that the people who are otherwise perfectly happy to ignore the injustice (like by framing protests against police murder continuously going unpunished as 'upset and entitled children') are forced to finally address the injustice in order to remove their inconvenience.
And yet, you wind up getting people more riled up about removing the protesters than removing what you're protesting over.
Sounds super effective!
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26868447 - 08/07/20 01:57 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
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ballsalsa said: And, in your mind, what kind of punishment do people like that deserve? The ones who inconvenience you by protesting in the road, I mean.
Let me answer that question by firing back a counter question.
How long would they get to say, block a freeway with rotating members, before we CAN justifiably arrest them all?
Because I want to know if you even HAVE a line.
I don't understand your question. Was someone in that video attempting an arrest? Cops use mass arrests all the time though, if you were asking whether or not that is a tactic available to them.
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Like cannabis topics? Read my cannabis blog here
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: natedawgnow]
#26868450 - 08/07/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: Dude for real what do you think a picket line is?
The whole point of pickets is to stop people from accessing a business or area. This is like foundational to the 1st amendment right to protest.
Do you guys even think before you bend over for authoritarians?
And they do that on the businesses property. Not public property
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: MagicMush123] 1
#26868467 - 08/07/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Doesnt matter if it's on business property or not dude. And no public roads and sidewalks are not business property. Do you really think the framers were thinking of personal property boundaries when writing 1A?
There is 0 restrictions in the constitution concerning time and place and the law does not outlaw protests in the street.
Causing disruption is an integral part of organized protest. Our forefathers knew it and that's why they practiced property destruction and obstructive protesting.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: natedawgnow]
#26868511 - 08/07/20 02:25 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
natedawgnow said: Doesnt matter if it's on business property or not dude. And no public roads and sidewalks are not business property. Do you really think the framers were thinking of personal property boundaries when writing 1A?
There is 0 restrictions in the constitution concerning time and place and the law does not outlaw protests in the street.
Causing disruption is an integral part of organized protest. Our forefathers knew it and that's why they practiced property destruction and obstructive protesting.
I was just replying to your post referencing stikes.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 5 months, 8 days
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: natedawgnow]
#26868517 - 08/07/20 02:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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MagicMush123 said: Nah dude. If a car is slowing approaching like in the video, you should get out of the way. They had ample time to move. This wasn't some car barreling down the road straight for them, this was a slowly approaching vehicle. What if he was just trying to get home for fuck sakes? Whatever happened to the duty to retreat?

See here
Yes, a slow moving vehicle might be perceived as a threat. Does that give anyone the right to start smashing it up?
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Vahn421 said: See, the thing about this I find funny is that if protesters are worried about their lives, they'd be running, not provoking a guy (by breaking his truck) who may or may have a gun in his car and may or may not run over you. 

See, the thing about this I find funny is that if drivers are worried about their lives, they'd be backing up, not provoking a group of people (by driving into them).
He didn't 'drive into' anyone, and didn't floor it before his truck started being smashed in.
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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Vahn421 said: It is likely the attack itself provoked the dangerous response.
Why does Antifa and company always think they things they do neutralize threats when they are just provoking larger ones?
The thinking is so backwards. They really need to go get some more real life experience. We're really living in clown world.

I can also make believe. Slashing the vehicles tires disabled the vehicle and prevented the driver from successfully pulling off their planned attack. Can you explain why your conjecture is less make believe than mine?
I was agreeing that the attack of the truck itself is what provoked the dangerous response (that's clear from the video). Regardless, what's the make believe outside of make believing that truck's intent was to run protesters over?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26868525 - 08/07/20 02:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: That's literally how protest works. You make ignoring the injustice such an inconvenience, that the people who are otherwise perfectly happy to ignore the injustice (like by framing protests against police murder continuously going unpunished as 'upset and entitled children') are forced to finally address the injustice in order to remove their inconvenience.
Then here's an idea. If the cops are the problem, inconvenience them. Take your protest to police stations and inconvenience them. Dont take your issues with police and place the burden and inconvenience random citizens that have NOTHING to do with it. That sense of entitlement is honestly disgusting
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26868572 - 08/07/20 03:00 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Intent is not relevant. Nobody has accused the driver of making a vehicle attack against protesters, only of acting in ways consistent with past terrorists.
Those protesters are not military personnel with training in identifying and engaging targets carefully. They are regular citizens engaged in their protected speech and assembly activities. When credibly threatened they are not required to wait until fired upon or any other restriction of like kind. Many places have a duty to retreat, as Enlil pointed out, but obviously, retreat on foot from a hostile vehicle is not viable.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
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Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#26868573 - 08/07/20 03:02 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ballsalsa, your double standard for this depending on what side of the issue the instigating perpetrators are on has become pretty obvious.
Principles need to remain consistent in order for one to take an argument seriously.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 03:04 PM)
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26868577 - 08/07/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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What double standard? Articulate the point that you think is obvious
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#26868587 - 08/07/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Intent is not relevant. Nobody has accused the driver of making a vehicle attack against protesters, only of acting in ways consistent with past terrorists.
Those protesters are not military personnel with training in identifying and engaging targets carefully. They are regular citizens engaged in their protected speech and assembly activities. When credibly threatened they are not required to wait until fired upon or any other restriction of like kind. Many places have a duty to retreat, as Enlil pointed out, but obviously, retreat on foot from a hostile vehicle is not viable.
The part where you're wrong is that when a vehicle is slowly approaching it is definitely viable to get out of the way
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: MagicMush123]
#26868599 - 08/07/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Only if you assume that the vehicle is not a malicious actor. How does moving aside help you if I roll down the window and shoot you like the guy in Austin did?
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#26868603 - 08/07/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Only if you assume that the vehicle is not a malicious actor
Even more reason to move
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: MagicMush123] 1
#26868609 - 08/07/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Well if he has a gun and you start surrounding his car and start smashing the windows then he'll definitely either punch the gas or start shooting. Take your pick
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ballsalsa
Universally Loathed and Reviled



Registered: 03/11/15
Posts: 21,251
Loc: Foreign Lands
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: MagicMush123]
#26868624 - 08/07/20 03:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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But if you disable the vehicle maybe they won't be able to hurt others.
I didn't say those particular protesters were effective in disabling the truck, only that they made a valiant effort. Caltrops or barricades would have probably gotten the job done passively
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
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Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#26868628 - 08/07/20 03:33 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Only if you assume that the vehicle is not a malicious actor. How does moving aside help you if I roll down the window and shoot you like the guy in Austin did?
By your own logic, how does moving in close to pop his tires and break his windows help? You've giving him a clear shot and lots of time. Let me guess, they're "selfless heroes" protecting other people, risking their very lives in the process.
Man... one of these guys really should meet an actual revolutionary from the 1700's. For real.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 03:34 PM)
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Rapjack
Oat Soakin' Toker


Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 483
Loc: Elsewhere
Last seen: 2 years, 4 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#26868632 - 08/07/20 03:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not sure why people are on this thread still. The question was asked if there was any good arguments, I've so far seen at least handful of them. Vahn has done nothing to refute these points using logic, so I'd say the question's been answered. Yes.
Anything else at this point will be him accusing you of semantic buzzwords like "double standards" just to get a rise.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#26868641 - 08/07/20 03:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: But if you disable the vehicle maybe they won't be able to hurt others.
I didn't say those particular protesters were effective in disabling the truck, only that they made a valiant effort. Caltrops or barricades would have probably gotten the job done passively
Whatever dude. At this point you're just trolling. You're not gonna troll me so im checking out of this thread. You guys make me sick
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