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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #26868091 - 08/07/20 10:35 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I agree wholeheartedly. I'm actively trying to be a peacemaker, but at the same time, there's some really treacherous shit going on in the country right now. We are in another civil war, and our inability to tolerate different viewpoints will be our downfall.

I'm a hard right libertarian who wears his mask without complaint. I'm more conflicted than polarized :lol:


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Srirachi]
    #26868096 - 08/07/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Srirachi said:
There's no such thing. Excavation companies just use two metric fucktons and hope it was big enough but not too big.



They also dig a hole and put the explosives deep inside. They don’t just pile it on top of the ground and waste all the energy into the atmosphere


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: koods]
    #26868107 - 08/07/20 10:42 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You just made a point that supports my argument, but you're arguing with me. I have you on ignore now.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Srirachi] * 1
    #26868166 - 08/07/20 11:20 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Another snowflake bites the dust


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: starfire_xes]
    #26868173 - 08/07/20 11:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
maybe they hit it with a fuel air bomb,

It must be the Iraelis.



you can see the fuel portion of a fuel air bomb disperse before it detonates so... no


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¿Check out some art m8?



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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: twighead]
    #26868222 - 08/07/20 11:54 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I was very clear that the small nuke can be ruled out just seeing the footage.

Just another massive AN fire accellerating to a detonation.

If you're making laughing gas by decomposing ammonium nitrate by melting it, you're supposed to mix it with lots of clean sand to prevent detonation from occurring.

Heated ammonium nitrate is much less stable, even when pure.

Ammonia is a fuel, nitric acid an oxidizer subject to shockwave initiated decomposition.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Asante]
    #26868227 - 08/07/20 11:59 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Stability during transport: If heated strongly, decomposes, giving off toxic gases and gases which support combustion. Undergoes detonation if heated under confinement.
U.S. Coast Guard, Department of Transportation. CHRIS - Hazardous Chemical Data. Volume II. Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing Office, 1984-5.




A big heap selfconfines.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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Offlinetwighead
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Asante]
    #26868230 - 08/07/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:


If you're making laughing gas by decomposing ammonium nitrate by melting it, you're supposed to mix it with lots of clean sand to prevent detonation from occurring.

.



I never considered that one might do this - and it makes sense but damn does that sound dangerous.


--------------------
¿Check out some art m8?



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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Srirachi]
    #26868234 - 08/07/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Srirachi said:
there's some really treacherous shit going on



Pretty sure that's always been the case.

I think the only difference - these days - is that we have t'internet feeding us all bullshit, directly to the fucking brain, turning it black like a cancer.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: twighead]
    #26868241 - 08/07/20 12:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Asante said:


If you're making laughing gas by decomposing ammonium nitrate by melting it, you're supposed to mix it with lots of clean sand to prevent detonation from occurring.

.



I never considered that one might do this - and it makes sense but damn does that sound dangerous.





Just to emphasize, if you plan to make nitrous that way, the nitrous must be cleansed of the highly toxic NO and NO2 gases contained in it.

Since Timothy McVeigh one does not simply load up ones pickup truck with 50lbs bags of AN anymore though.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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Offlinekoods
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: twighead]
    #26868278 - 08/07/20 12:37 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

twighead said:
Quote:

Asante said:


If you're making laughing gas by decomposing ammonium nitrate by melting it, you're supposed to mix it with lots of clean sand to prevent detonation from occurring.

.



I never considered that one might do this - and it makes sense but damn does that sound dangerous.




No no. There are other decomposition products. Some are deadly


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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Offlinemongo lloyd
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: koods] * 2
    #26868324 - 08/07/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

it was obviously reptilians what did it


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Asante]
    #26868440 - 08/07/20 01:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I simply don't buy that there was only ANFO here. Read about what McVeigh did to ensure his anfo all ignited. First, he used nitromathane not fuel oil. Second, he used several hundred pounds of Tovex which is an accelerated nitrate-fuel high explosive. In order to ensure detonation, he used a 10:1 or less ratio of ANFO to high explosive.

An explosion crater 500' in diameter would be something like 10,000 pounds of TNT at a bare minimum. The nearly 3,000 tons of nitrate that were alleged to have been stored there would easily produce the effect of 2.5 million pounds of TNT in an optimal detonation, and even if it only yielded 50%, there's still enough there in the official story to exceed the amount needed to do that amount of damage.

So to be clear Asante, I'm not saying there was no nitrate involved - just that there's no effing way that was ALL that was involved. As I originally said, the fireworks factory story seems like it's a plausible detonation initiator, but ammonium nitrate is not an explosive. It's an oxidizer capable of exploding under the right conditions, but a building fire is not likely such a set of conditions. Aluminum dust can create an explosion and so can sugar or grain dust. Aluminum, sugar, and grain are not explosives though. You can look at it from a chemical perspective and be convinced there was enough potential energy in 2,750 tons of nitrate there, I understand that.

Chemistry has no language to describe the actual explosion. That's physics. The shockwave needed to detonate the initial explosion could have come from the fireworks factory implausibly said to have been next door to the 3000 tons of nitrates, but even in an optimal setting, great pains are taken to ensure complete reaction of the nitrates because it simply isn't very easy to get it to explode.

Granted, I have no experience with this much nitrate and it's unlikely anyone in the world does - which is in and of itself enough to make reasonable people doubt the official explanation. Anyone who was detonating this amount of anfo would do it in an orderly fashion with well laid out charges, not a giant pile placed on top of the ground. It seems so improbable that it happened as reported that I just can't accept it.

---

And koods, this is why I'm ignoring you. The fact that you approach this as a chemistry problem and not a physics one shows you are just the Mario Batali of copypasta, and have no understanding of what you're talking about, at all. You're wrong about fuel oil's role in anfo, you're wrong about what an explosion is, and you're wrong about smokeless powder exploding if confined. It's not worth more conversation with you, because you're unable to understand things about 3 steps behind what you're talking about. I also don't argue with homeless lunatics on the street who say the end is near, for the same reason.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Srirachi]
    #26868494 - 08/07/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Read about what McVeigh did to ensure his anfo all ignited. First, he used nitromathane not fuel oil. Second, he used several hundred pounds of Tovex which is an accelerated nitrate-fuel high explosive. In order to ensure detonation, he used a 10:1 or less ratio of ANFO to high explosive.




What McVeigh did had everything to do with increasing the velocity of the detonation, so that the same amount of explosive would be more destructive.

ANNM is a mixture similar to commercial Kinepak tht is much more powerful and fast than ANFO. It is as fast and as powerful as TNT, while ANFO is only 0.8x TNT. The NM alone has a power akin to tetryl.

Tovex is an explosive based on the nitrates of methylamine and ethylenediamine, which is faster and more powerful because the carbon fuel is part of every molecule, the same reason why the WTC bombing was so devastating, it used urea as the fuel, as urea nitrate. Urea too is a carbon-holding fuel on the molecular level, which too is similar to TNT in strength and speed.

Why is speed so important? The faster your detonation the greater the brisance, the shattering effect, on tougher materials, such as rebar, and the higher the velocity of your shrapnel, up to 2/3 the velocity of detonation.

Quote:

ammonium nitrate is not an explosive. It's an oxidizer capable of exploding under the right conditions, but a building fire is not likely such a set of conditions.




Look into the history of ammonium nitrate disasters. Once heaps get ginormous, AN fires can selfconfine and the remaining AN can detonate, as it has time and time again throughout history. It just does.

*Waves to the Gov't like he's whacked out of his mind*


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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Asante]
    #26868549 - 08/07/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

CHeifM4sterDiezL said:
Why use a bomb when they have a pile of shit just sitting there waiting to go off. Sabatoge that and bam problem solved. Wash the hands on to the next one.




Except there was clearly a fire before hand. If you want to detonate a pile of ammonium nitrate you don’t set it on fire first. Fire is not a good way to detonate it. You use a detonator or another smaller bomb .




Unless you are Mossad, the more extreem, and effective wing of the CIA covering their tracks. Start a small fire before detonating the whole pile. Lets face it, Israel is the 51st state of America. America just doesn't know where on the corner of the flag to put the extra star.


--------------------
whether low pressure sucks or high pressure blows...
it's a bugger to cycle in.

even though I'm feeling good
Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: koods]
    #26868560 - 08/07/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:

Sirachi, fuel oil supports the complete reaction of the excess nitrogen oxides resulting from the decomposition of ammonium nitrate. Only the ammonium nitrate is capable of actually detonating when the molecule’s bonds break apart. An intimate mixture of fuels and oxidants don’t detonate. The deflagrate. Only a molecule has the capability detonation when the solid or liquid material instantly becomes gases.





This is literally how it is.

Maybe a good thing the "hard right libertarians" suck at explosives science :grin:

Srirachi I know you like trolling but there's a lot of holes in your understanding of the subject matter, it seems.

Repeatedly stating alone that pure AN cant detonate, in spite of the long history of disastrous AN storage explosions and even quotes of HAZMAT sources stating the contrary, shows that either you're not fully concentrating or mayhaps trolling a bit.


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Asante]
    #26868611 - 08/07/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

https://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-beirut-explosion/

Here's both support for your position and mine. No, it is not an explosive. Yes, it can explode.

The Tovex in McVeigh's bomb was the donor charge. It's sometimes called an initiator, and it is necessary because ANFO is a low explosive that barely sustains its own degradation. It's shockwave is barely fast enough to keep the reaction going, at around 1500 m/s (unconfined), whereas Tovex detonates at probably around 12,000 m/s (I didn't look that up so take with a grain of salt). Point being, The Tovex was entirely consumed before the ANFO had a chance to react. It didn't make the shockwave from the ANFO move any faster. Charge size and geometry are the only factors in the decomposition rate, and that is because of how charge size and geometry affect the shockwave that is responsible for the decomposition.

So back to my point - I simply do not believe anything other than an intentional detonation occured because it's so ridiculously implausible that a quantity of nitrate that large was stored next to a fireworks plant, one of the only things that could provide the donor blast to detonate such a massive quantity of nitrate short of an intentionally placed primary.

Who knows though. if 10% of 2,750 tons of nitrate actually achieved explosive decomposition, could achieve the energy of 231,000 pounds of TNT. I'm aware of one blast of 3,000 pounds of RDX that left a crater 300' x 15' when detonated above ground: https://www.pogo.org/investigation/2016/01/is-us-embassy-in-kabul-next-benghazi/

I'm comparing it to other explosive craters though and I just don't see it. McVeigh's highly-optimized ANFO (some was just anfo but most was AN-Nitromethane) did massive damage above ground but left virtually no crater. Low explosives don't make huge craters when set off above ground. As you pointed out, decomposition velocity is where it's at with explosives, and anfo is excellent at heaving ground it is underneath, but is too slow to shatter the ground the way a high explosive will. So, comparing relative energies released really isn't an accurate way to judge.

The crater is more consistent with a high explosive blast of around 10,000 pounds of TNT. That would be awfully difficult to sneak in, I would think, so I am back to underground bomb factory/storage depot for terrorist groups/something like that.


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. *DELETED* [Re: Asante]
    #26868619 - 08/07/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Post deleted by Srirachi

Reason for deletion: Never should have made it in the first place


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Srirachi]
    #26868622 - 08/07/20 03:30 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

The foundation of Oklahoma is much different than the foundation of a seaport. The natural geography of that city 100-200 years ago was like any port city far smaller. They've all expanded through human intervention. That ground is all man made mostly from what was dredged up from the port to deepen it as ships got larger and larger.

I could see a big crater being a sort of misleading observation if you don't consider the ground by a port is probably pretty shit.


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:whyyy:


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Massive explosion in the Port of Beruit. Incredible video. [Re: Srirachi] * 2
    #26868629 - 08/07/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Don’t think Asante’s interest in explosives began today.


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