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OfflineFrrrunkis
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Registered: 06/14/20
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Literally nothing matters. This is fine.
    #26868468 - 08/07/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

My working subject for this was "Psilocybin, nihilism and clarity", but I've decided to use my signature instead. I think it's a more fitting title.

On my third mushroom trip I took a heavy dose and felt a strong urge to lie down in a dark room under a blanket. I experienced ego death. I was one with everything, everything was one with me. Everything just, well, was. That incredible experience was followed by a strong realization that I, in my "everyday form", was just a product of genes, of evolution, a reptilian brain confined to its reptilian genetics, urges, software algorithms. An infinitely small and insignificant branch in the all-encompassing, all-dimensional everything.

As time passed by - days, weeks, now months from that experience - I've been pondering every day. Whenever my mind is free from the daily activities, I think about it. And the more I think about it, the clearer it all becomes.

This mind and body are simply chemistry that's sufficiently evolved to perform this complex exercise of human existence.
My plans, achievements, failures - they all stem from my reptilian nature (I know I'm a mammal, I just like the word "reptilian"). They're a product of invisible forces constantly grinding against huge numbers, giving rise to everything that happens to me - including the everyday sense of agency and control over my life.
I love my children, I love my wife, I'm proud of my accomplishments and embarrassed by my failures. All of this is my genes' doing. None of this is objectively important, profound or meaningful.
When I die, this particular configuration of fields called "me" will simply change and move on.
Religion, philosophy - these are puddle-deep concepts attractive to reptilian brains. They might be useful within this context, but they're hopeless in trying to understand and make sense of the truth. The truth is so incredibly simple. The truth just, well, is.

I've read that this experience makes a person more empathetic, more in tune with nature, more caring about it. Well, sure, but... Nothing matters, nothing is of consequence. Me dying - zero meaning. My loved ones - same. Maybe I should become vegan to ease animal suffering? Sure, except no suffering actually matters, medium rare please. We pollute and hurt the environment? Yeah, newsflash, nothing matters. And sure, the reptilian me holds mostly progressive beliefs, tries to make the world a slightly better place, likes things, dislikes things, makes decisions that "make a difference". All of this only matters within this genetic paradigm. Humans are curious creatures, but ultimately confined to their genetic shackles. So is all of life.

This whole picture should make want to kill myself. Yet the reptilian me has never felt better. Within my genetic shackles, I'm happy, thankful, incredibly fortunate. I love my kids and wife to death, I'm successful in the capitalist game, I have fun hobbies and lots of interests. Life's good.
The intense realization that all of this is pointless outside of the genetic framework actually brings me peace. When I see innocent children suffering, I know it's ok - it doesn't matter. When I eat an animal, I know it's ok - it doesn't matter. When I look at my kids and I'm instinctively horrified that something could happen to them, I know it too wouldn't really matter. We're all ultimately everything, and when one of the reptilian brains is extinguished, everything still just exists. Nothing is lost, nothing is gained, no consequence. For a parent, there's no greater shift in perspective. And the good things in life? Yeah, well, you do you. The drive of reptilian genes is strong, keep yourself occupied and you'll keep forgetting that none of your successes, none of your good deeds, matter even one bit. Oh well.

Perhaps the greatest mystery, one that I don't feel I'll ever be able to fully process, is why this super-coherent, stunningly satisfying perspective was also produced by my reptilian brain subjected to a slightly changed chemical bath. I think it's very unlikely that the psychedelic experience is supernatural or in any way transgressing the confines of my reptilian nature. It's still this same brain. Yet this new perspective feels unlike anything I've ever felt before. It's so incredibly clear, so convincing, so powerful. I'm curious to see how it evolves, how it'll shape my behaviour, what other insights it brings.

I thought nihilism was depressing. Turns out it's awesome and satisfying. I'm looking forward to not mattering even further.

What do you think? :smile:


--------------------
Literally nothing matters. This is fine.


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Offlineredhandmat
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Registered: 05/09/19
Posts: 463
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26868509 - 08/07/20 02:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe time to take another dose again? See if a new perspective arises?


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26868768 - 08/07/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It's been said that love is not an emotion. If this is true, then empathy, if it to be contrasted with sympathy, should also not be emotional.

That's not a clear indicator that nothing matters, only that a thing mattering is not inherently of emotional importance. This is something most people have difficulty with. Sounds like you had a pretty good trip.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26868769 - 08/07/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It helped me a lot
I was having pangs about my daughter, and now I'm good.


but the "nothing matters" part is not central to the balm,
the central issue is that
this living stuff is going on as if, nothing matters more than continuing living, however things go.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26869092 - 08/07/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Re: the OP

What difference does it make whether things matter or not?
"Except yea become as children, yea shall not enter the gates of heaven"
And its not a philosophical issue for kids.

Usually whether or not things matter means
is it an occasion for emotional upset or fear?

If we don't pay taxes we go to prison, so they matter, and do them whether we like doing so or not.
And people who fear hell, find all kinds of things, that may not bother others, bother them.
Others are bothered by mosquito bites, and scratch themselves bloody at times.

To see what matters in your life, observe yourself.
What you do, not what you say.
Most likely, one finds, attachments and preferences.
And some can be modified.

On a social level, although nothing may matter,
you will find very quickly,
that if you act as if nothing matters, and as a result act selfishly,
your 'karma' will ripen very quickly.
On the other hand one could just give everything one has away,
as nothing matters.
Then again there maybe something called:
"the middle way"


Edited by laughingdog (08/07/20 08:34 PM)


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OfflineVylie
The more you know
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Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Rahz]
    #26869404 - 08/08/20 01:59 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineVylie
The more you know
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Registered: 03/11/20
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26869421 - 08/08/20 02:29 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869423 - 08/08/20 02:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869455 - 08/08/20 03:40 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
By the way, I believe every single teacher who tells you that your body is not you, is a charlatan.

It’s one of the worst and most harmful teaching I’ve ever heard.

You are not *only* your body, but your body is also you.

Any teacher, who has the slightest understanding of the world, should tell you that you should love your body, caress your body, and protect your body as much as you can.




Just teaching that you aren't a body isn't saying that it's useless and shouldn't be cared for and respected for it's purpose, just that you are more than just a body.  How is this harmful? 

Bodies are just tools to serve a purpose and all of ours' will be dust in no time, so why place such emphasis on them?


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineFrrrunkis
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Registered: 06/14/20
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869457 - 08/08/20 03:44 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, thank you guys for responding. To be honest I only wanted to write this for myself at first, but then I thought people on this forum might find it worthwhile. Reading what I wrote again, I think I should try and re-frame it at some point. To me, it reads as a bit of a counter-narrative, a bit of an "eye-opener" exercise. I feel it would be better if I put it more constructively - no poking holes, no "a-ha!" moments, but a description of what I've learned, laid out in a positive, constructive manner. I'll give it some time though.

Quote:

redhandmat said:
Maybe time to take another dose again? See if a new perspective arises?



Definitely, sometime soon. I've tripped again after this, but smaller doses, different setting. I don't feel an urge to repeat this yet.

Quote:

Rahz said:
It's been said that love is not an emotion. If this is true, then empathy, if it to be contrasted with sympathy, should also not be emotional.

That's not a clear indicator that nothing matters, only that a thing mattering is not inherently of emotional importance. This is something most people have difficulty with. Sounds like you had a pretty good trip.



I'm sure love is an emotion, 100%. As real as this keyboard, this screen, my brain and the mushrooms I ate. It's just that emotions are simply products (features?) of this reptilian brain and they only play a role in this context. They're not some higher-level transcendental entities.

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
It helped me a lot
I was having pangs about my daughter, and now I'm good.



This makes me happy. Two daughters here. They're the worst, and best, and worst.

Quote:

but the "nothing matters" part is not central to the balm,
the central issue is that
this living stuff is going on as if, nothing matters more than continuing living, however things go.



Yes, that's just it. For this living stuff, or the genes behind it, continuing living is the only game in town.


Quote:

Vylie said:
I don’t get why people use that D-letter negative word for it. Maybe it’s not the same experience.



Using language to describe these states is pretty hopeless, maybe "ego dissolution" is a better fit. That said, I don't find "death" negative at all. A human is born, a human dies. When I spray my hands with sanitizer, countless deaths of various lifeforms happen in an instant. In the perspective I'm trying to describe, human life (or death) is about as meaningful.

What you're describing might be the same experience. Then again, every brain is different, so I'm sure it can't be quite the same, can it. :smile:

Quote:

Quote:


This mind and body are simply chemistry that's sufficiently evolved to perform this complex exercise of human existence.





Sure. Even more, evolution is everything. For example, the mushroom was sitting in the forest.

"La-la-la, la-la-la, I’m the sweet little mushroom! I’m so cute!

(...)

And the Magic Mushroom was born. This is evolution.



Sure. Well, it had to take many many generations of these annoying singing conspiring cuties, but yeah. It's fascinating to think that something so potent and profound comes up after who knows how many evolutionary dice rolls. I don't really know anything about psilocybin outside of wikipedia. I think some in-depth reading is in order. :smile:


Quote:

Quote:


This whole picture should make want to kill myself.




There was a person who opened a thread on Nexus and said he would commit such an act on DMT to experience the infinite love instead of suffering in this world.

What I wrote to him was quite unpopular. However, you seem way less passive-aggressive than him. Or you are him but you put yourself together. (I think you are not).



If I seem passive-aggressive at all, I apologize. Also, I've never been less suicidal. Life's great.

I don't know the whole story, but in my view that person seems misguided. I think killing oneself ends any conscious experience one might have. Suffering would end, but so would love. On the other hand, who am I to say? Everyone's different, everyone has the ability to end their life, some people do. Again, I don't think it matters in the big picture.

Quote:

So, if your idea of doing something unwise comes from the idea of a mushroom trip, I will tell you an argument against it also coming from trips.

I experienced it once on DMT, and another time, in a more intense way, on the beginning of a mushroom trip.


It was the kind of darkness that’s totally unlike "normal" darkness. It was such intense NDE darkness you cannot imagine until you experience it.

It was not scary. It was not frightening. Yet somehow, it was horrible.

I was alone, and I was not alone.

I can’t tell you why it was bad, because I’m alone a lot on my trips, and usually, that’s the best part.

But I could do nothing. I didn’t feel a part of the Universe. There was no Universe. There was nothing but darkness.

And I was waiting for some purple entity to come either to save me or finish it.

I realized that being in such a state for eternity could be worse than Hell. I was not suffering. I could do nothing.

Unless you are sure what’s outside, stay here.

There are things out there you cannot imagine. Normally, I wouldn't say this, because how the hell would I know what you can imagine.

But I say it because if you could imagine them, you wouldn’t consider anything like you considered.

There are entities you never ever want to see.

Just stay here. We will burn it down anyway in at most ten years.

You know, they say, love is the answer to every question. Maybe it’s true but sometimes you can’t find it.

Trust me. The second-best answer to any question is ice cream.

Find your joy in this world.



Thank you for sharing this. :smile:


--------------------
Literally nothing matters. This is fine.


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OfflineFrrrunkis
yes
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Registered: 06/14/20
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869464 - 08/08/20 03:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
By the way, I believe every single teacher who tells you that your body is not you, is a charlatan.

It’s one of the worst and most harmful teaching I’ve ever heard.

You are not *only* your body, but your body is also you.



I 100% think my body is me, end of story. There's nothing more to the reptilian "me" pressing the keys right now, and this "me" does everything it's conditioned to do to care for itself and its genes' well-being.

At the same time, the same "me" is an infinitely small and insignificant branch in the all-encompassing, all-dimensional everything.


--------------------
Literally nothing matters. This is fine.


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OfflineGrapefruit
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26869486 - 08/08/20 04:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You might be right. I don't feel like I know what I am really. Could be anything. But the word serves it's functional purpose true or not so I'm not really concerned.


--------------------
Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. 

"Chat your fraff
Chat your fraff
Just chat your fraff
Chat your fraff"


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OfflineVylie
The more you know
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Forrester]
    #26869504 - 08/08/20 05:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869507 - 08/08/20 05:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
How do you know it’s only a tool? What makes you believe so?




Because I believe anything ephemeral is only an illusion and only the eternal is real.  Human bodies are formed and dissolved, returned to the universe just as everything else physical is.  Just a temporary form, a learning tool.

Why?  Because what other purpose?


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineVylie
The more you know
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26869512 - 08/08/20 05:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineVylie
The more you know
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Forrester]
    #26869516 - 08/08/20 05:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineVylie
The more you know
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26869520 - 08/08/20 05:37 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
aspiring sociopath
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869551 - 08/08/20 06:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
If you look at your body as a disposable tool, it might behave like that.




And what would be the problem with that? 

I think I'll be quite happy to no longer be confined to something so limiting as as body.

And I meant to as this earlier, but what's with the need to assign a gender to your subconscious?  Just curious.  I agree with most of your views on the subconscious, just don't understand the gender thing.


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869561 - 08/08/20 06:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

2 daughters too, like Persian cats
wife like Felis nigripes.

cats can get scales but it is not good (herpes)

the body owns you not the other way around.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Forrester]
    #26869586 - 08/08/20 06:55 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineVylie
The more you know
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869598 - 08/08/20 07:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26869602 - 08/08/20 07:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

I'm sure love is an emotion, 100%.




Love is a feeling among other things, but are all feelings emotions?


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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OfflineVylie
The more you know
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Rahz]
    #26869642 - 08/08/20 08:04 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869643 - 08/08/20 08:04 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Very interesting story!  What a life journey. 

Quote:

Vylie said:
One of the reasons this reality exists is that I’m hiding from myself here. I don’t do it (only) as a game. It’s safe here without the power of instant creation.




You too? :wink: 

Although we still have to be careful.  Thoughts are things as well...


--------------------
Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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OfflineVylie
The more you know
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Forrester]
    #26869650 - 08/08/20 08:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869672 - 08/08/20 08:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

extra dimensional realm of Fluidic Space where species 2373 resides, anyone?


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps


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OfflineFrrrunkis
yes
I'm a teapot
Registered: 06/14/20
Posts: 110
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: laughingdog]
    #26869711 - 08/08/20 08:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Re: the OP

What difference does it make whether things matter or not?
"Except yea become as children, yea shall not enter the gates of heaven"
And its not a philosophical issue for kids.

(...)

On a social level, although nothing may matter,
you will find very quickly,
that if you act as if nothing matters, and as a result act selfishly,
your 'karma' will ripen very quickly.
On the other hand one could just give everything one has away,
as nothing matters.
Then again there maybe something called:
"the middle way"



Right. There's two different "matterings" here, I think.

On the everyday level, in my human life - sure, I'll do whatever I think is right, I'll strive to do the right things, to care for myself and others. I'll try and be what I consider a good person, living a good life.

On the level of the perspective I'm describing, all of the above is infinitely insignificant. And I guess my whole point is that this realization, instead of making me anxious and depressed, actually brings me peace and even joy.


--------------------
Literally nothing matters. This is fine.


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Forrester]
    #26869720 - 08/08/20 09:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Rahz]
    #26869725 - 08/08/20 09:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
Quote:

I'm sure love is an emotion, 100%.




Love is a feeling among other things, but are all feelings emotions?



emotions are what happens when memories are evoked that had strong feelings of pain or pleasure associated with them.

in that way love can be an emotion.

sexual desire is a primary reflex, though it quickly associates with feelings and gets combined in memory. this can be very confusing for a person who has fondness and arousal with persons that are "off-limits".
- just nattering but I want to remain consistent about emotions being complex, not simple feelings but always feelings with associations, often causing gut responses including laughter, smiles, sobbing, and tears. The intensity of emotional memory effects can shift one's serotonin levels stimulating psychedelic resonance types of sensory enhancement/distortion and altered consciousness altogether. All of that together is emotion.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineFrrrunkis
yes
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26869732 - 08/08/20 09:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
Your explanation is one more reason to believe it’s a different experience.  So far, whatever read about "ego-death" seemed to be a passive action. With "dissolution", I think you found the perfect word for what I imagined to be "ego-death".

What I experience is almost the opposite. I don’t melt into the Universe. I’m the Universe. It feels awakening and reconnecting to myself. It’s active, joyful, and mindblowing.

I don’t become "all the trees and all the people". There are no trees. There are no people. There is only my imagination.



Sounds similar enough. Becoming "all the trees and all the people" happens to me at lighter doses. Maybe these are progressively deeper levels of the same thing. In the experience I'm describing, there was also nothing but... Existence? Everything? Being? "Universe" almost sounds too small to justify what it was, but at that point human language is insufficient anyway.

Quote:

It’s the opposite. You seem a positive and lovely person.

If I can vote, I vote for you stay alive.



Thank you. I'm not going anywhere anytime soon, this reptile is doing fiiine.


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Literally nothing matters. This is fine.


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InvisibleFerdinando
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26869773 - 08/08/20 09:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

a great year next year to you etc.

and hopefully a very good year at some time

a really happy year 2023

a pretty good year then


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with our love with our love we could save the world


Edited by Ferdinando (11/22/20 06:52 AM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26869847 - 08/08/20 10:29 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26869855 - 08/08/20 10:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

...


Edited by Vylie (02/11/21 02:12 PM)


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OfflineFrrrunkis
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26870062 - 08/08/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure if I maybe hinted otherwise, but to be sure: I don't have a problem with all of this. The crux of my brain dump was to share this newly discovered perspective, not to indicate that I'm somehow struggling with it.

In fact, before this experience, I'd been a life-long agnostic materialist. Everything was mostly fine, but finding meaning and purpose was a challenge sometimes. As you can probably tell, I'm still a materialist, but now there's this much broader overarching perspective and I feel it's a huge improvement. I guess I could call myself a positive nihilist. :wink:

I appreciate your kind words. Thank you for caring.


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Literally nothing matters. This is fine.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26870126 - 08/08/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

two ideas emerge from your post realization personality matrix:

1. it's ok - nothing we can affect matters in the scheme of galactic events - and all that happens is explicable in natural scientific terms.

2. I still care about my life and want to do the right thing and do do that, but I can accept that outcomes desired may be replaced with natural realities that are different.

the linkage between them may have been some vision of chemistry or physics or psychology or all of the above, OR you grokked it like machine learning, and would not be able to describe what salient factors mean anything. And this is supported by the vastly meaningless statement that "nothing matters"

even that statement has a few strange cosmic intimations.

pretty weird - but I am glad you can be comfortable with it. We are limited in our ability to rationally explore or explain what can be seen in a flash.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineFrrrunkis
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26870192 - 08/08/20 02:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
two ideas emerge from your post realization personality matrix:

1. it's ok - nothing we can affect matters in the scheme of galactic events - and all that happens is explicable in natural scientific terms.



That's right. Even if we were vastly more capable and could collide black holes for fun, it still wouldn't matter one bit. The reality in my realization was infinitely vast, it completely transcended space, time and dimensions. It's like any finite number vs infinity - no matter how many zeros you add, it's still as good as nothing. It's a terrible analogy too, but there you go. :/

Quote:

2. I still care about my life and want to do the right thing and do do that, but I can accept that outcomes desired may be replaced with natural realities that are different.



I am fully aware that my life is most likely pre-determined by physics, or - at the very least - any "agency" on my part is an illusion that stems from natural processes in my brain. That's also ok, because my life is a product of natural processes beyond my control.

I think I would actually blend 1. and 2. into one more general point: my life, or any life, is an obvious product of natural processes, devoid of any objective meaning or significance, and its existence or non-existence changes nothing. Any meaning or motivation is subjective and apparently necessary for human life to function, but there's nothing more to it.

Blending those two points together, I'd add another one: we, along with absolutely everything else, are all manifestations of the same thing, or we just are the same thing, which is anything and everything that is. We might be born and die, but, as with everything else, nothing is ever added or subtracted. Everything just is.

Quote:

the linkage between them may have been some vision of chemistry or physics or psychology or all of the above, OR you grokked it like machine learning, and would not be able to describe what salient factors mean anything. And this is supported by the vastly meaningless statement that "nothing matters"

even that statement has a few strange cosmic intimations.

pretty weird - but I am glad you can be comfortable with it. We are limited in our ability to rationally explore or explain what can be seen in a flash.



I think the whole exercise is pretty hopeless in a sense that I'm still using my brain to process all of this. This whole perspective is a product of my brain under the influence or certain chemicals, so to claim that suddenly I've hacked the matrix and opened a portal to a higher plane of consciousness would be ridiculous and I'm not buying any of it. Something very profound happened though, and I feel I'll probably spend a good chunk of my life trying to make sense of it.

Thank you!


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Literally nothing matters. This is fine.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26870289 - 08/08/20 03:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

when you say "there's nothing more to it" you share a voice with religious fanatics throughout history.

I think you need to go back to your vision again for a refresher.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineFrrrunkis
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26871490 - 08/09/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Wouldn't religious fanaticism, or any fanaticism, imply not tolerating any other worldview? I have zero problems with people holding different beliefs.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26871585 - 08/09/20 01:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

but when you say "there's nothing more to it", you are dismissing all others' beliefs - pan-democratically


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OfflineForresterM
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Vylie]
    #26871676 - 08/09/20 01:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
Tell us your story. Why are you here? How did it happen? Who are you?




I dunno, I think I'm just another sent here to help with the shift.  Never been to this planet before.  I don't seem to be allowed to remember much more.  I just go where I'm asked and see what's what.  I think it's more about the right energy in the right place, not what's done. 

I kind of agree with the OP that nothing we do here with the physical stuff matters, it's all dust anyway, but I think there's more to it than that.  There is meaning and purpose.  What we think matters.


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Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability to lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------------------

Have some medicinal mushrooms and want to get the most out of them?  Try this double extraction method.


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Forrester] * 1
    #26872271 - 08/09/20 08:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

.  This is pretty much a repeat of something dealt with hundreds of years ago:

.  "Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

Desiring to show his attainment, he said: “The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no relaization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received.”

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.

“If nothing exists,” inquired Dokuon, “where did this anger come from?”  "

.    Students of the way have been spouting glibly shit that sounds profound, forever; but unfortunately for them it has nothing to do with true insight.


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OfflineSurfiingbird
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: laughingdog]
    #26873931 - 08/10/20 07:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Damn man you crazy as hell hahah


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: laughingdog]
    #26874536 - 08/11/20 07:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
.  This is pretty much a repeat of something dealt with hundreds of years ago:

.  "Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one master after another. He called upon Dokuon of Shokoku.

Desiring to show his attainment, he said: “The mind, Buddha, and sentient beings, after all, do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness. There is no relaization, no delusion, no sage, no mediocrity. There is no giving and nothing to be received.”

Dokuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly he whacked Yamaoka with his bamboo pipe. This made the youth quite angry.

“If nothing exists,” inquired Dokuon, “where did this anger come from?”  "

.    Students of the way have been spouting glibly shit that sounds profound, forever; but unfortunately for them it has nothing to do with true insight.




so what does that story say to you? if Yamaoka had not been angry, was it a true insight? If it was a true insight, would it matter if he became angry?


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Kickle]
    #26874715 - 08/11/20 09:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Zen masters are often on the lookout for excess of certainty when it comes to the unknowable. SMACK!


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Kickle]
    #26877361 - 08/12/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
Quote:

laughingdog said:
.  This is pretty much a repeat .....




so what does that story say to you? if Yamaoka had not been angry, was it a true insight? If it was a true insight, would it matter if he became angry?




What question(s) / teaching(s) should the story raise for anyone?
Why do you think it has been retold for centuries?
Why should I think for you?
Do you have a brain?
If so why not use it?
If you think the story is stupid, so be it, ... for you ... just as I won't think for you, I won't argue with you.

But I do doubt, the point of the story is for folks who think they are clever, to come up with different endings, that they then feel they need to show off to others to prove their cleverness.


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OnlineKickleM
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: laughingdog]
    #26877424 - 08/12/20 07:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

not sure why you don't want to discuss the thing you posted on the forum. But that's really up to you :thumbup:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: Frrrunkis]
    #26878676 - 08/13/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Methinks that you're misusing the expression "reptilian" with regard to any higher cortical functions. The reptilian brain may include the non-cognitive limbic system and some very survival-based emotions. Liking the term is no excuse for misusing it in a discussion about consciousness.

You have had a few psychedelic experiences but you have made the novice's error of committing your first interpretation of said experiences to a doctrine for yourself. What you have landed on is an experience of detached equanimity of your experience relative to the interminable æons of phenomena here on Earth. This is not Nihilism (which btw, along with Eternalism are the two major heresies in Buddhism). Your love for your family and gratitude cannot be concomitant with Nihilism. Either clinical depression or a fatalism embodying more varied but nevertheless negative emotions accompany Nihilism. Suicide is a logical consequence of someone who has become fixated on a nihilistic vision of Reality. You do not seem suicidal fortunately.

There are many, many, many models of consciousness. My 1983 doctoral dissertation was one model on levels of human motivation that partake of consciousness, some levels of which non-psychedelicized individuals never rise to experience. There are famous modern models like mine (e.g., Ken Wilber, Timothy Leary, Michael Washburn, etc.) and ancient models belonging to religions, esoteric traditions often within religions, shamanic or otherwise magickal traditions, and schools of philosophy that need to be considered before one 'closes one's accounts with reality.' For your own health and development it would be wise not to misuse terms, misidentify philosophical positions and most of all not misinterpret Reality based on a few non-ordinary experiences. I have been tripping since 1971 and it redirected the trajectory of my life from the socio-cultural programming I was operating under to a change from pre-medicine to academic degrees in philosophy, theology and developmental & clinical psychology - all fueled by my need to understand transpersonal, transcendental states of consciousness.

Bottom line: Do not be too hasty to interpret your experiences without the corroboration of a relevant and time-tested frame of reference supplied by a venerable tradition. Remember that any non-corroborated opinion is just that, one subjective opinion, and those are more often than not erroneous because lacking in phenomenological objectivity. Each philosophical conclusion comes with its own Shadow-side which, like Nihilism, can have far-reaching if not tragic consequences. Tread lightly friend.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Literally nothing matters. This is fine. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #26878806 - 08/13/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

it would be a mistake to imagine that a reptilian brain was not host to consciousness even though it is less complex than ours is.


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