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Enlil
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Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. 1
#26867956 - 08/07/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, I rarely make new threads. I prefer to shit on other people's threads instead. I just wanted to find where the people here stand on certain issues regarding police activity in the U.S.
So, without further ado, please fill out the following polls:
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R.I.P.Zappa
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868099 - 08/07/20 10:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Might as well get the discussion rolling before it's moved to the poll thread.
In a nut shell; our police institution is a classic case of trying to do the right thing in the worst possible way.
The institution needs reform judging by the symptoms currently being expressed across the country. I know this one young lad who has anger issues and tried to become a cop. Thankfully he didn't slip through the cracks after his physiological evaluation. Our community is very relived he doesn't have special privileges to be given a position of power. Nothing more unsettling to a communities freedom and safety than a delusional John Wick Barney Fife hiding behind the privilege of a badge.
-------------------- -The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought- -"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".- -When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".- -If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.- psychonautwiki.org How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek. Principles of mushroom growing for beginners
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
#26868106 - 08/07/20 10:42 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I firmly believe there is a good solution to the problem, though. I also believe that much of the resistance to police reform is because people are just so used to how police function that they can't see alternatives.
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Vahn421
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868163 - 08/07/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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What does STAL stand for?
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Billy Ray
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868169 - 08/07/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don’t think there’s that much resistance to the idea of reforming the police. After the George Floyd incident, it seemed like everyone agreed that what happened was horrible. Then it turned into national protests, some turned violent and then the rhetoric escalated to defund police. Nobody wants to abolish the police except BLM and it’s supporters.
I don’t think there’s going to be a legitimate discussion of police reform until people stop attacking them. It’s around 70 straight days of protests and violence in Portland. How can we have a discussion on police reform when there’s so much violence towards them atm?
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Vahn421]
#26868189 - 08/07/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: What does STAL stand for?
Sir Tokes A Lot
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray]
#26868191 - 08/07/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Billy Ray said: How can we have a discussion on police reform when there’s so much violence towards them atm?
How can we not? Police haven't stopped killing people.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868317 - 08/07/20 12:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's a difficult poll, since many of my answers would be "sometimes". For example, "Police serve as a force for government oppression of citizens".
Edit: I did my best to answer.
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Billy Ray
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868353 - 08/07/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Billy Ray said: How can we have a discussion on police reform when there’s so much violence towards them atm?
How can we not? Police haven't stopped killing people.
Show me the articles detailing the people killed in these riots due to the police
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray]
#26868359 - 08/07/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Where did I say anything about riots?
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Billy Ray
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868361 - 08/07/20 01:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok, show me articles of police killing civilians since George Floyd
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray] 1
#26868421 - 08/07/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868536 - 08/07/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: What does STAL stand for?
Sir Tokes A Lot
I think before legislative reform, there needs to be a fundamental understanding of what policing is. It is not "Cops" or any other reality show. Rarely do police prevent crimes...even rarer; shooting the criminal to save the day. Cops have no legal duty to protect citizens...willing to take the Pepsi challenge most Americans dont know that.
Regarding arms, only tactical units on standby should be implemented. They should be called on only in extreme violent situations.With todays tech, there is no reason to chase and act like Billy badass anymore. Drones and cameras alike make it virtually impossible to remain anonymous in public. Many departments have Stingrays ta boot.
Why do we allow cops to carry guns, when they have no legal obligation to protect the populace? Why is the gun only for thier protection?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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imachavel
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil] 2
#26868566 - 08/07/20 02:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here is how I voted, if it matters to the discussion:
The overall net effect of Policing, as practiced in the U.S. is: Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
Positive
Police need to have special powers and privileges in order to do their jobs: Users may choose only one (16 total votes)
False
Police serve as a force for government oppression of citizens: Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
False
Police are justified in shooting a suspect if that suspect is guilty or has a violent history. Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
False
I feel safer when there are more police around: Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
Somewhat Agree
I am more likely to trust a police officer's word over a normal citizen Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
Police are professional liars
Police should use race as a factor when determining the danger of a situation Users may choose only one (18 total votes) Some races are more violent, and Police should recognize that
Race is irrelevant and should not be considered
Police should be allowed to carry firearms: Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
Anytime a risk to the officer or the public exists
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DontFearThePeepr



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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: imachavel]
#26868613 - 08/07/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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nooneman


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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: imachavel] 1
#26868654 - 08/07/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I answered: Positive, false, false, false, somewhat agree, police are professional liars, race is irrelevant, all the time.
The police are necessary and important, and it isn't police that I blame for a lot of stuff, but the law. I don't blame police for what happens to a lot of drug users for example, I blame the law that makes what they do illegal. If someone opens fire in walmart, or is stabbing someone on my front porch, or has just kidnapped a child, I sure as hell want to be able to pick up the phone and call the police, and know that they're going to be there responding to that situation.
The police are only human, they're not machines, and they work an insanely hard job 24/7, I expect that working a job like that any normal human being is going to make mistakes. But when the police make mistakes, people can die or their lives can be ruined. Yet at the same time it's only natural for someone who works in an environment like that to end up eventually making some mistakes, that's just human nature. Likewise, some police officers are going to be assholes, or have a bad day, and that's going to impact other people's lives. But still you have to remember that they're not machines, and every human being in any job is going to have a bad day, and there are assholes everywhere in every job.
It's like surgeons, surgeons handle life and death situations every day, but some surgeons are inexperienced, or assholes, or they're had a terrible day, and that's going to impact how they perform their job. Sometimes that's going to end up killing people. That's just the reality of the situation, and demanding that they don't allow it to impact their job is unrealistic.
What we need is some kind of reform or training, but I can't imagine anything that will be realistically effective. The police, being normal human beings, reflect the state and condition of our society more broadly. I can't imagine a way to solve racism in the police without solving it in our society more broadly. As long as racism exists in our society more broadly, it will naturally exist in the police force. Same with other stuff like assholes, violent people, etc. A lot of criminals and deeply evil people (like the Golden State Killer) join the police, and I can't imagine a way to prevent that other than getting rid of such people in our society more broadly (which currently seems unrealistic).
At the same time, a lot of good people join the police, and do a good job. For every guy out there doing a bad job, there are probably 2-3 doing a great job. Ideally, you don't ever notice or know about the police officer who does a fantastic job day in and day out, you never hear about him, you only ever hear about the one who does a bad job. The vast majority of police officers who I've actually met have been great, and have gone out of their way to help me out.
Instead of reforming the police, I'd much rather reform the laws, especially those around drugs.
Having said all that, of course as a drug user I can never trust a police officer, nor would I ever be friends with one, hang around one, etc. That's just a matter of personal safety and reality. I'm the mouse, and they're the cats.
A couple notes about my answers to the questions: 1. police lie every day as an expected and required part of their job, you can't ever trust what they say. They are literally professional liars in that their profession involves lying as part of the job. But remember, our lives as drug users involving lying too, right? 2. police should be allowed to carry guns around 24/7, but that's because I believe everyone in America should have the right to carry guns 24/7, and that includes the police.
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: DontFearThePeepr] 1
#26868668 - 08/07/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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nooneman


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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray] 1
#26868682 - 08/07/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, I have zero sympathy for anyone who shoots at the cops. If you shoot at the cops, don't be surprised when you end up dead. Shooting at the cops is fucking stupid, that's like the dumbest thing anyone can do.
Even beyond the cops, if you shoot at an armed person in general, and they shoot back and kill you, that is 100% on you.
Edited by nooneman (08/07/20 04:20 PM)
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray]
#26868792 - 08/07/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Billy Ray said:
You think these people shouldn't have been killed?
Cops should never kill anyone.
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Billy Ray
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868845 - 08/07/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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What are they supposed to do if they are getting shot at?
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray]
#26868861 - 08/07/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Take cover.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray]
#26868895 - 08/07/20 06:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If you yell,"Get down!" that would make the cops dance . So "take cover!" and the like will do.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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qman
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: SirTripAlot]
#26869162 - 08/07/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Just another day in America with the police. Yeah, we focus on the police killings, but this is the daily abuse and harassment.
https://www.denverpost.com/2020/08/07/aurora-police-district-attorney-investigation-children-detention/
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Kryptos
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: qman]
#26869250 - 08/07/20 10:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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so, most people seem to agree that police are an inherently negative institution. Most people agree they are not justified in shooting some asshole, and most people agree that police are professional liars.
I agree with all of that. A police presence makes everything worse, unless you have a dashcam and some Karen just rammed you for shits and giggles. By the way, get a fucking dashcam.
However, as of his post, it seems 50/50 split on "most cops should be armed". Given the current situation in the US, I fully agree with that. All cops should be armed. When the average citizen has the right to own a gun with no licensing or background check, then the cops should be ready for literally any situation to become a running shootout. Traffic stop? Get ready to blast. DUI? Grab your dick in one hand and your gun in the other. Literally any crime has the potential for shooting, so all cops should always be armed. I should add, it doesn't even need to "feel" like a crime. Back in the day, we all knew what crimes were. Don;t steal shit, don;t kill people, that kind of thing. Nowadays, jaywalking is a crime, and police should be willing and able to respond to jaywalking with lethal force.
US citizens really need to accept that. The second amendment means that if the cop, for any reason, feels threatened, then you're getting shot. That's fully justified, because the second amendment says you can shoot back.
In all honesty, I wouldn't really have a social problem with cops lobbing grenades into cars and houses. Morally? Yeah, that's fucked up. Considering the social reality of the US, if a cop isn't going in with grenades, that's a waste of taxpayer money.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Kryptos] 1
#26870003 - 08/08/20 12:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I disagree. There should be armed cops ready to respond when necessary but since the vast majority of police interaction don't involve being shot at, the vast majority of police don't need guns to shoot back with. Police work pays well above the median in the US. Even if you lose a few cops here and there, there will always be more shitheads who want to get paid well to beat ass. Its no different than how sometimes construction workers sometimes get crushed or mangled or buried but new guys come along for those jobs.
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Kryptos
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: ballsalsa]
#26870137 - 08/08/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The fact that most police interactions don;t end in shootouts doesn't invalidate that fact that EVERY police interaction has the POTENTIAL for a shootout.
Therefore, every cop needs to be "armed cops ready to respond when necessary".
Places with sane gun laws, or registries, the cops can look up a suspect and have an incredibly accurate guess as to whether they have a gun or not. In the US, one third of the population is armed, and there are more guns than people. There is a 1/3 chance that the guy you're about to have an unpleasant confrontation with has a gun, and they might use it.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Kryptos]
#26870153 - 08/08/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Those numbers are going up. Nevertheless, cops should just accept the risk like anyone else. its their job.
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yeah


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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil] 1
#26870176 - 08/08/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Take cover.
for how long? say the shooter has a lot of ammo, do you expect the cops to just pray?
and if the shooter turns his fire onto citizens? Sorry man I fucking hate cops as they are but that was just libtarded as hell
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Kryptos
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: ballsalsa]
#26870233 - 08/08/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: Those numbers are going up. Nevertheless, cops should just accept the risk like anyone else. its their job.
Cops have no legal duty to risk their lives to help people.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Kryptos]
#26870252 - 08/08/20 03:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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One more reason that they don't need to be armed
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Kryptos
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: ballsalsa]
#26870268 - 08/08/20 03:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Not at all. If anything, that's a reason for why the current police need more weapons. It's much safer to drop a dozen mortar rounds in the general vicinity of a criminal than to confront that criminal head on.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Kryptos]
#26870358 - 08/08/20 05:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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the cure sounds worse than the disease
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DontFearThePeepr



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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: ballsalsa] 3
#26870366 - 08/08/20 05:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think the biggest problem is qualified immunity, cops need to be held accountable for making mistakes. That alone would be a huge disincentive to the manner of their current behavior.
-------------------- It's only the strongest people who will actually help
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Kryptos
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: ballsalsa]
#26870412 - 08/08/20 06:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: the cure sounds worse than the disease
I completely agree. However, given the current social climate in the US, I don't believe there is an alternate possibility.
Given (a) the proliferation of guns and (b) the fact that police are not legally required to risk their lives in defense of civilians, the only logical outcome is for police to approach every situation from the military perspective of overwhelming firepower to neutralize the designated target.
The only way to change this is to change the underlying social issues. Which is the purpose of the "defund the police" people. We will not change the proliferation of guns in the next half century, because even if the wishful thinking of gun control passes, people are going to be finding grandpa's AR-15 in the attic for the next two generations.
Everything else is simply taking work off the police plate. Better mental health counseling, better social support systems, removing qualified immunity, requiring insurance, changing the social attitude of calling the cops instead of having a conversation, etc.
Once the police aren't required to be a mental health counselor, a frontline warrior, the guy that gets cats out of trees, the guy that stops mass shootings, etc. things will get better.
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ballsalsa
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Kryptos]
#26870666 - 08/08/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would argue that the "everything else" part is far and away the most important part.
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Kryptos
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: ballsalsa]
#26871437 - 08/09/20 11:29 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is, but it's a symptom vs. disease argument.
The disease manifests in a lack of social cohesion, which comes from many factors normally championed by the GOP: lack of safety net, the whole "welfare queen" thing, the idea that freedom means freedom from personal responsibility, religious integration into politics turning every issue into a my way or the highway crusade, general use of obstructionism as a tactic.
The symptoms are what we see with police treating their jobs as occupation of enemy territory, being given gear explicitly designed for warzones, and being forced into a role as the primary mental health responders. And, of course, due to the severe overlap in duties, they need immunity from when the inevitably fuck up and blow away some guy that's just mentally retarded.
Police in the US are woefully undertrained. All you need is a GED and 19 weeks of police academy, of which only one day is spent on de-escalation training. Because cops don't need conflict de-escalation training. They just need to know how to shoot their problems. Immunity covers everything else.
Two other thoughts I think are relevant:
First, the third amendment. Seems kinda weird, right? Quartering troops. But there was no police back when the constitution was written. Law enforcement was done by soldiers.
Second, before there was police, there was maybe a sheriff for serious crimes, but crimes were generally dealt with on a social level. This meant that everybody knew what a crime was, because those crimes were generally things like stealing, murder, etc. Nowadays, however, (and I believe this trend started with the prohibition), nobody knows what a crime is. The average American commits multiple crimes every day, just driving to work. Some people inadvertently commit felonies routinely.
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qman
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Kryptos]
#26871722 - 08/09/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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"Mayor and The Executioners"
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26874029 - 08/10/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: That's a difficult poll, since many of my answers would be "sometimes". For example, "Police serve as a force for government oppression of citizens".
Edit: I did my best to answer.
Sometimes means true. It's pretty obvious not every single activity a cop does on the clock is government oppression. If you rarely engage in trips to space you're still an astronaut
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: bodhisatta]
#26874156 - 08/10/20 09:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Right, but if 1 in 10 cops engage in oppression, that doesn't mean all cops do.
What you're talking about is the frequency that the 1 in 10 cop engages in oppression. Sure, even if it's not frequent, I'll agree that 1 in 10 guy is an oppressor.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26874621 - 08/11/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Are you saying that you think that only 10% of cops engage in oppression?
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Psilynut2
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26874724 - 08/11/20 09:44 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I hope it’s way less than 10% , there are roughly 800,000 officers in this country , that would be 80,000 cops engaging in oppression. That would be or is a huge problem .
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Psilynut2]
#26874743 - 08/11/20 09:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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They all engage in that behavior at one point or another even "good cops"
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26874747 - 08/11/20 09:57 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Are you saying that you think that only 10% of cops engage in oppression?
I don't know what the number is. I'm saying it's less than 100%.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kwyjibo
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26875160 - 08/11/20 01:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't know what the number is. I'm saying it's less than 100%.
Source or make believe?
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26875197 - 08/11/20 02:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Oppression is standard operating procedure. I'd be shocked if any cop who has been working for more than a month or two on patrol hasn't oppressed anyone.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Kwyjibo]
#26875260 - 08/11/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kwyjibo said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I don't know what the number is. I'm saying it's less than 100%.
Source or make believe?
Again, I said "I don't know what the number is" and "I'm saying..." meaning that's my thought on the matter.
Do you really think there's not a single cop in America who doesn't oppress people, out of about roughly 800,000 cops, many of whom are in small towns?
I can't prove it anymore than you can disprove it.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26875271 - 08/11/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, but oppression takes many forms. Pulling someone over and demanding that they state where they're going is oppression. Playing good cop/bad cop by the side of the road is oppression. Holding people while they wait for a drug sniffing dog to come is oppression. Oppression happens all day, every day, dude.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26875279 - 08/11/20 03:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: Pulling someone over and demanding that they state where they're going is oppression. Playing good cop/bad cop by the side of the road is oppression. Holding people while they wait for a drug sniffing dog to come is oppression. Oppression happens all day, every day, dude.
You should have provided that definition before the poll. I wouldn't have considered that oppressive.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26875295 - 08/11/20 03:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If it were anyone other than a cop asking, you'd tell them "it's none of your business." Because it's a man with a gun and a badge, representing the authority of the local municipality, it's oppressive.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26875302 - 08/11/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Society empowers cops to do certain things that ordinary citizens can't. I realize you feel things should be different, but right now they're not. 
I don't think acting within current law is oppressive.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26875319 - 08/11/20 03:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cops don't have the power to require you to answer any questions. They do it because they know you're afraid to piss them off. So, you answer. That's an abuse of authority. That's oppression. Watch any interrogation video. Cops routinely lie to people in an effort to scare them. That's standard practice. The fact that it's legal doesn't make it any less oppressive. In fact, it makes them an agent of government oppression.
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natedawgnow
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26876050 - 08/11/20 10:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Cops lie constantly. Anecdotal, but in my early 20s my roommate and I were pulled over and separated. The cop questioned us separately. He went to my friend first, came to me and said my friend told him I had "dope" on me. Fucking outright lie. Told him I didn't repeatedly, he went to my friend and apparently told him that I said HE had "dope" on him! He legit made us spread wide on the side of the road and did a full body pat down. Didnt find shit.
He then claimed he smelled weed in my car, called back up, and he and 2 other cops tore my car apart looking for drugs. They took everything out of my trunk and left it on the side of the road for me to clean up after being let go.
Both my buddy and I were groped in an illegal search and when they couldnt find shit in my car they let us go but he gave me a ticket for speeding even though I wasnt. He was following us for a few miles I think he saw a beater being driven by two young guys and he figured we'd have something.
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: natedawgnow]
#26876470 - 08/12/20 08:04 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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That happens all the time. When I was a teenager, I was pulled over every week.
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Kizzle
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26877531 - 08/12/20 08:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Billy Ray said:
You think these people shouldn't have been killed?
Cops should never kill anyone.
So you think we should allow any gang of armed criminals to inflict their will upon the population since the only way to stop them would be to kill them?
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Kizzle]
#26877550 - 08/12/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Why do you believe that to be the only way?
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Kizzle]
#26877551 - 08/12/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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We're supposed to stop cops by killing them? They're the armed gang that's shooting civilians.
And any other armed gangs go to jail. Sometimes the cops kill a gang member but most don't even get caught and some do and they go to jail
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Brian Jones
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26881015 - 08/15/20 03:45 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Society empowers cops to do certain things that ordinary citizens can't. I realize you feel things should be different, but right now they're not. 
I don't think acting within current law is oppressive.
I do.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26881020 - 08/15/20 03:51 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: That happens all the time. When I was a teenager, I was pulled over every week.
Oh fuck yeah. I was pulled over constantly, but in other ways the cops were OK in the 70's. When they asked you, you told them that you had weed, and then they would have you pour it out in the ditch.
But black people get pulled over and fucked with through middle aged years, and I don't think they let them go.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Brian Jones]
#26881092 - 08/15/20 05:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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For me, it was the 80's.
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26884859 - 08/17/20 01:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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OP, pm me the IP addresses of the 6 users who said “some races are more violent.”
Thanks
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#26884870 - 08/17/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: OP, pm me the IP addresses of the 6 users who said “some races are more violent.”
Thanks 
You don't happen to be a member of one of those more violent races are you?
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Asante]
#26884917 - 08/17/20 01:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Nah man I’m so white you can see through my arm if you hold a flashlight under it
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ballsalsa
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: The Ecstatic] 2
#26884967 - 08/17/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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nobody is as white as asante.
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Asante] 2
#26885067 - 08/17/20 02:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Nah man I’m so white you can see through my arm if you hold a flashlight under it
So, you're saying that white people aren't the more violent race?
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bodhisatta 
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil] 1
#26885109 - 08/17/20 03:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Absolutely not Sentinelese are the most violent
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26885398 - 08/17/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Nah man I’m so white you can see through my arm if you hold a flashlight under it
So, you're saying that white people aren't the more violent race?
lol I was expecting a few different responses but not this one
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: bodhisatta]
#26885401 - 08/17/20 05:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: Absolutely not Sentinelese are the most violent
The most justifiable though too imo
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Asante
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Asante]
#26885527 - 08/17/20 06:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: OP, pm me the IP addresses of the 6 users who said “some races are more violent.”
Thanks 
You don't happen to be a member of one of those more violent races are you? 
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Nah man I’m so white I was genociding native people to steal their land like anywhere on earth only yesterday.
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imachavel
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26885529 - 08/17/20 06:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You know I have talked a lot of shit about BLM lately. But in truth lets not forget that BLM in Portland is different from the non violent BLM. The majority of BLM was like a few hundred thousand or possibly even millions of peaceful protestors world wide that without laying a finger on anyone went out in great force to basically just say "its fucking wrong to kill a black man by laying on top of him needlessly while he could not move"
All those people screaming at each other "black lives matter" "no all lives matter" then getting in a big fist fight is really some super skin head vs hood gang type shit. I mean its childish but the message BLM tried to bring for everyone who did not burn down a city block while protesting was basically that more people then you have ever seen world wide were going to get involved in a peaceful protest and march down the worlds busiest street wherever it was and shut this bitch down by saying "its wrong to do this" without hurting anyone which is a pretty powerful message. I mean I attended a bunch of BLM protests and had no issues. So I don't want to take away from that message by magnifying the behavior of childish people who are too antisocial to work a day of the year in their fucking lives.
Just as "conservative" does not necessarily spell MAGA and Trump as head of the nationalist white party etc. Conservatives are people who believe in church and saving money and safe neighborhoods and a good life etc. Being thrifty and buying American and all of that. A few people ruin the broader message for everyone. Oh well though. The greater idea is way more powerful then a bunch of acting out fucking children in adult bodies. Real talk
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: imachavel]
#26885556 - 08/17/20 06:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Who cares if they’re violent? It’s justified.
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imachavel
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26885753 - 08/17/20 09:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Who cares if they’re violent? It’s justified.
This is what voting is all about these days eh?
--------------------
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Enlil
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: imachavel]
#26885785 - 08/17/20 09:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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What does voting have to do with it?
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imachavel
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26885816 - 08/17/20 09:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The Republican party will this year clearly ask many issues during any Presidential debates which Biden so far seems to have refused to participate in. They will be along the lines of:
"What could the Democrats have done any better during the covid 19 crisis?"
"What could the Democrats have done any better to protect George Floyd from police brutality then the Republican Party?"
"Why do Democrat voters justify going out and doing violence on people during protests in which they are mainly protesting Conservative policies leading to increased police violence?"
"What could the Democrats have done any better to stop the spread of covid 19 then The Republican Party?"
"Why exactly does the Democratic Party believe their policies have helped black lives matter more then Republican Parties policies?"
"Why exactly does the Democratic Party believe their policies will help more with police reform then the Republican Party's policies?"
"What exactly will the Democratic Party do to try and reform the economy from covid 19 losses that they will be stronger then Republican Party policies meant to strengthen the economy from covid 19 losses."
"Why are Democrats saying police violence will continue as long as Republicans lead the Senate and House and Congress in total?"
Ok now most people are saying Trump is already on his way to a loss. They are even saying "the less Biden says the better." Is this going to fly with voters who need to swing from one party to the other? I am already predicting a loss from Biden to Trump if Biden cannot strengthen his views on social policies. We get that his economic policies are not Conservative. He plans to flood social services flush with cash to make up for covid losses. But Trump is bashing him ALL OVER THE INTERNET.
So what does it have to do with voting?
Democratic parties have spent a lot of time bashing the Republican party for what they failed to do during the covid crisis. That much they have done. What they have failed to do in a strong way is show what the Democratic policies could have done better.
What Trump is doing right now is flooding the internet with propaganda that is easy to follow. The propaganda consists mostly of youtube videos and tweets and websites etc. Showing that Democratic voters who claim they are all about policy reform and black lives matter are out in the streets beating the shit out of people in the name of BLM.
Now I have said that BLM has been hijacked. BLM was a proud source of people marching out to stop taking bullshit to flood the streets and scream "STOP FUCKING KILLING BLACK PEOPLE DAMN POLICE" but as many Liberals have spent months and months bashing Trump and the Republican party for not doing well with police reform and not doing well during the covid crisis they mainly have done poorly describing how the Democratic party would have done any better.
Democrats are expecting Trump to lose based on the idea the GOP is stupid enough to be incompetent. Biden just shuts up and has a for sure win. I am unsure. I am as unsure as you would be as a lawyer during a trial that the other lawyer is not going to do a cross examination. Sorry Enlil I forgot if you are a defendant or prosecutor. For the sake of argument I want to say you are in a trial defending a client and you are not expecting the prosecution to do a cross examination and suddenly they do a cross examination right smack in the middle of a court room.
Ok so would that be putting all your eggs in one basket as a defense attorney to not expect the other side to cross examine?
Would it be on the Democrats best side to not expect the Republican party to throw more questions at the Democrat party and not expect it to influence voters during election week when the liberals are claiming that the GOP cares not for police reform and they could care less for George Floyd's family when Trump is pumping propaganda all over youtube showing strong Democratic supporters beating people up in the street and showing the liberal party will try and defund the police while their voters clearly think violence is a way to solve a problem?
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The Ecstatic
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: imachavel] 1
#26886116 - 08/18/20 06:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The Democrats sucking total ass is part of the reason why BLM actions are justified.
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Asante
Mage


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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26886210 - 08/18/20 07:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
The Ecstatic said: Nah man I’m so white you can see through my arm if you hold a flashlight under it
So, you're saying that white people aren't the more violent race?
Someone needs a history lesson about white people.
Since the assumption is white racist, let's look at the white race through black racist eyes, for enhanced emphasis of how white history looks if you have no love for it.
If you are up in arms about "You cant talk about mah race that way" maybe fuind some empathy for the racistly slanted narrative that is used to describe nonwhites.
Enlil and I know its all just a social construct, not rooted in scientific reality.
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imachavel
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26886316 - 08/18/20 08:55 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: The Democrats sucking total ass is part of the reason why BLM actions are justified.
One candidate is kind of like getting it in the ass with lube but then some sand is thrown in there later and and the other candidate is kind of like getting it in the ass with no lube at all. One is a little more "straight up."
As you guys can tell I have been kind of going on a rant lately. After spending a few days pretending like any of this matters through the eyes of "an educated voter" I need to now resume to my normal personality.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
Edited by imachavel (08/18/20 08:56 AM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 24 minutes, 58 seconds
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: imachavel]
#26886527 - 08/18/20 11:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The Republican party will this year clearly ask many issues during any Presidential debates which Biden so far seems to have refused to participate in. T
The debates are sept 29, Oct 15 & oct 22
I don’t know where you get the idea Biden has refused to participate. They’ve been scheduled for quite a while now.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,362
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 9 hours, 27 minutes
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: koods] 1
#26887099 - 08/18/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The debates are only relevant insofar as the narratives that get created after the fact. Whether Biden shits the bed or not it won’t matter because 1) not enough people will watch for it to matter, 2) the people who are watching won’t change their minds either way, and 3) the media won’t suddenly turn on Biden and prop up Trump. They’ve been protecting Biden and (relatively) attacking Trump for years, that isn’t going to change now.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,372
Loc: You get banned for saying that
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26887524 - 08/18/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I hate the outcome no matter who wins but my curiosity is so extreme over who actually will I just can barely wait until November. Besides I could possibly die or Corona before then or get shot by police entirely defenseless. It is possible.
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,340
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 5 hours, 10 seconds
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: The Ecstatic]
#26887885 - 08/19/20 07:41 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Ecstatic said: The debates are only relevant insofar as the narratives that get created after the fact. Whether Biden shits the bed or not it won’t matter because 1) not enough people will watch for it to matter, 2) the people who are watching won’t change their minds either way, and 3) the media won’t suddenly turn on Biden and prop up Trump. They’ve been protecting Biden and (relatively) attacking Trump for years, that isn’t going to change now.
This is all (relatively) good news.
Playing the outsider won't work for Trump anymore. People just want him out.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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