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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. 1
#26867956 - 08/07/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, I rarely make new threads. I prefer to shit on other people's threads instead. I just wanted to find where the people here stand on certain issues regarding police activity in the U.S.
So, without further ado, please fill out the following polls:
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R.I.P.Zappa
Myco Melyco


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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868099 - 08/07/20 10:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Might as well get the discussion rolling before it's moved to the poll thread.
In a nut shell; our police institution is a classic case of trying to do the right thing in the worst possible way.
The institution needs reform judging by the symptoms currently being expressed across the country. I know this one young lad who has anger issues and tried to become a cop. Thankfully he didn't slip through the cracks after his physiological evaluation. Our community is very relived he doesn't have special privileges to be given a position of power. Nothing more unsettling to a communities freedom and safety than a delusional John Wick Barney Fife hiding behind the privilege of a badge.
-------------------- -The heaviest thing one will ever carry is a thought- -"Like a Blind man In an orgy you gotta feel things out.".- -When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality".- -If you defy authority because your told to, that's no better than blindly trusting authority.- psychonautwiki.org How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE BOD's Easy AF OAT prep tek. Principles of mushroom growing for beginners
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,489
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: R.I.P.Zappa]
#26868106 - 08/07/20 10:42 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I firmly believe there is a good solution to the problem, though. I also believe that much of the resistance to police reform is because people are just so used to how police function that they can't see alternatives.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868163 - 08/07/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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What does STAL stand for?
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Billy Ray
Stranger
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868169 - 08/07/20 11:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don’t think there’s that much resistance to the idea of reforming the police. After the George Floyd incident, it seemed like everyone agreed that what happened was horrible. Then it turned into national protests, some turned violent and then the rhetoric escalated to defund police. Nobody wants to abolish the police except BLM and it’s supporters.
I don’t think there’s going to be a legitimate discussion of police reform until people stop attacking them. It’s around 70 straight days of protests and violence in Portland. How can we have a discussion on police reform when there’s so much violence towards them atm?
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Vahn421]
#26868189 - 08/07/20 11:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said: What does STAL stand for?
Sir Tokes A Lot
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,489
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray]
#26868191 - 08/07/20 11:35 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Billy Ray said: How can we have a discussion on police reform when there’s so much violence towards them atm?
How can we not? Police haven't stopped killing people.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868317 - 08/07/20 12:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's a difficult poll, since many of my answers would be "sometimes". For example, "Police serve as a force for government oppression of citizens".
Edit: I did my best to answer.
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Billy Ray
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868353 - 08/07/20 01:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Billy Ray said: How can we have a discussion on police reform when there’s so much violence towards them atm?
How can we not? Police haven't stopped killing people.
Show me the articles detailing the people killed in these riots due to the police
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,489
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray]
#26868359 - 08/07/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Where did I say anything about riots?
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Billy Ray
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868361 - 08/07/20 01:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok, show me articles of police killing civilians since George Floyd
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray] 1
#26868421 - 08/07/20 01:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis



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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868536 - 08/07/20 02:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said: What does STAL stand for?
Sir Tokes A Lot
I think before legislative reform, there needs to be a fundamental understanding of what policing is. It is not "Cops" or any other reality show. Rarely do police prevent crimes...even rarer; shooting the criminal to save the day. Cops have no legal duty to protect citizens...willing to take the Pepsi challenge most Americans dont know that.
Regarding arms, only tactical units on standby should be implemented. They should be called on only in extreme violent situations.With todays tech, there is no reason to chase and act like Billy badass anymore. Drones and cameras alike make it virtually impossible to remain anonymous in public. Many departments have Stingrays ta boot.
Why do we allow cops to carry guns, when they have no legal obligation to protect the populace? Why is the gun only for thier protection?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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imachavel
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil] 2
#26868566 - 08/07/20 02:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Here is how I voted, if it matters to the discussion:
The overall net effect of Policing, as practiced in the U.S. is: Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
Positive
Police need to have special powers and privileges in order to do their jobs: Users may choose only one (16 total votes)
False
Police serve as a force for government oppression of citizens: Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
False
Police are justified in shooting a suspect if that suspect is guilty or has a violent history. Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
False
I feel safer when there are more police around: Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
Somewhat Agree
I am more likely to trust a police officer's word over a normal citizen Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
Police are professional liars
Police should use race as a factor when determining the danger of a situation Users may choose only one (18 total votes) Some races are more violent, and Police should recognize that
Race is irrelevant and should not be considered
Police should be allowed to carry firearms: Users may choose only one (18 total votes)
Anytime a risk to the officer or the public exists
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
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DontFearThePeepr



Registered: 11/21/05
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: imachavel]
#26868613 - 08/07/20 03:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
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Loc: Utah
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: imachavel] 1
#26868654 - 08/07/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I answered: Positive, false, false, false, somewhat agree, police are professional liars, race is irrelevant, all the time.
The police are necessary and important, and it isn't police that I blame for a lot of stuff, but the law. I don't blame police for what happens to a lot of drug users for example, I blame the law that makes what they do illegal. If someone opens fire in walmart, or is stabbing someone on my front porch, or has just kidnapped a child, I sure as hell want to be able to pick up the phone and call the police, and know that they're going to be there responding to that situation.
The police are only human, they're not machines, and they work an insanely hard job 24/7, I expect that working a job like that any normal human being is going to make mistakes. But when the police make mistakes, people can die or their lives can be ruined. Yet at the same time it's only natural for someone who works in an environment like that to end up eventually making some mistakes, that's just human nature. Likewise, some police officers are going to be assholes, or have a bad day, and that's going to impact other people's lives. But still you have to remember that they're not machines, and every human being in any job is going to have a bad day, and there are assholes everywhere in every job.
It's like surgeons, surgeons handle life and death situations every day, but some surgeons are inexperienced, or assholes, or they're had a terrible day, and that's going to impact how they perform their job. Sometimes that's going to end up killing people. That's just the reality of the situation, and demanding that they don't allow it to impact their job is unrealistic.
What we need is some kind of reform or training, but I can't imagine anything that will be realistically effective. The police, being normal human beings, reflect the state and condition of our society more broadly. I can't imagine a way to solve racism in the police without solving it in our society more broadly. As long as racism exists in our society more broadly, it will naturally exist in the police force. Same with other stuff like assholes, violent people, etc. A lot of criminals and deeply evil people (like the Golden State Killer) join the police, and I can't imagine a way to prevent that other than getting rid of such people in our society more broadly (which currently seems unrealistic).
At the same time, a lot of good people join the police, and do a good job. For every guy out there doing a bad job, there are probably 2-3 doing a great job. Ideally, you don't ever notice or know about the police officer who does a fantastic job day in and day out, you never hear about him, you only ever hear about the one who does a bad job. The vast majority of police officers who I've actually met have been great, and have gone out of their way to help me out.
Instead of reforming the police, I'd much rather reform the laws, especially those around drugs.
Having said all that, of course as a drug user I can never trust a police officer, nor would I ever be friends with one, hang around one, etc. That's just a matter of personal safety and reality. I'm the mouse, and they're the cats.
A couple notes about my answers to the questions: 1. police lie every day as an expected and required part of their job, you can't ever trust what they say. They are literally professional liars in that their profession involves lying as part of the job. But remember, our lives as drug users involving lying too, right? 2. police should be allowed to carry guns around 24/7, but that's because I believe everyone in America should have the right to carry guns 24/7, and that includes the police.
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Billy Ray
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: DontFearThePeepr] 1
#26868668 - 08/07/20 03:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
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Loc: Utah
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray] 1
#26868682 - 08/07/20 04:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, I have zero sympathy for anyone who shoots at the cops. If you shoot at the cops, don't be surprised when you end up dead. Shooting at the cops is fucking stupid, that's like the dumbest thing anyone can do.
Even beyond the cops, if you shoot at an armed person in general, and they shoot back and kill you, that is 100% on you.
Edited by nooneman (08/07/20 04:20 PM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Posts: 65,489
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Billy Ray]
#26868792 - 08/07/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Billy Ray said:
You think these people shouldn't have been killed?
Cops should never kill anyone.
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Billy Ray
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Re: Enlil's Attempt to Reach the Truth: Police Enforcement Edition. [Re: Enlil]
#26868845 - 08/07/20 06:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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What are they supposed to do if they are getting shot at?
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