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OfflineVahn421
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Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. * 4
    #26864770 - 08/05/20 02:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

(I put this in a larger thread but it's so important it needs one of its own.)

SO! ... now that the bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest has been released, it paints a VERY different picture of what happened. With ALL the info we have, we now know that...

A: George Floyd was a former criminal that at one point held a gun to a pregnant woman's stomach.

B: George Floyd tried to use a counterfeit $20 bill to buy something and that's why the cops were called.

B.5: George Floyd had a previous criminal record history with the cops and had been formally arrested on violent charges prior, making the cops extra cautious.

C: He appeared high as hell... and not on weed.. when the cops approached his car to detain him. It is possible he swallowed extra Fentanyl before the cops approached out of nervousness. He was acting completely cracked out the entire time.

D: He couldn't follow the cop's most basic instructions to leave his hands where the officers told him.

E: He RESISTED arrest for a solid 5 mins, the whole time saying, "I'm not resisting!"

F: Even some black girl nearby said to Floyd, "stop resisting!" because she knew how this works.

G: 3 cops collectively tried to get Floyd into the back seat of the cop car and he stiffened his body and refused to go in. They tries for several minutes before giving up and placing him on the ground. They didn't shoot or taze him even though they likely could have after he resisted getting arrested.

H: Floyd was shouting, "I can't breathe!" long before any cop was on his neck. Likely to do emotional distress or the drugs he was taking... or something else. He ASKED to be put on the ground multiple times, claiming claustrophobia in the car. (Dude was just in a car 5 mins earlier... he was cracked out and making shit up.)

I: None of this justifies the cop kneeling on his neck, but after 10 minutes of Floyd refusing to comply and multiple cops trying to arrest him, it doesn't make Floyd out to be as innocent as people think. He could have avoided his death at like 5 different phases in this, and it's not even certain the cop killed him any longer.

J:Most importantly, there is NOWHERE in this video that ANYTHING that happened to Floyd was racially motivated. This was all a political farce to start a race war. The cops were not "terrorizing" Floyd or treating him unjustly. They showed HUGE levels of restraint, actually, given his non-compliance.

(Also, the autopsy showed lethal amounts of Fentanyl in his system as well as meth.)

All of this just isn't my silly little take on what happened... The Daily Mail, which is definitely NOT pro-republican news source, posted the video... and the comments basically ALL agree with me. People are pissed off we were lied to and we let our major cities go to hell because of it. All the top comments basically say, "fuck the media, fuck this shit. We were lied to. Floyd was a crackhead."

The media has blood on their hands. 30 people died in the riots, including children.

Here's the bodycam footage below. Everyone should watch it.

Also, I guess reddit/r/politics thought the actual bodycam footage was too "controversial" so they keep removing it off their site. Or maybe it's because it doesn't paint the narrative the political left wants and the comments on the video were saying the same thing as the on the Dailymail's video. ("Fuck this, we were lied to!")

EDIT: Everyone really needs to click on the Youtube video and read the comments. Not because you have to agree with them, but because you ought to have PROOF of what the general consensus about this is.





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Edited by Vahn421 (08/05/20 03:03 PM)


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OfflineRapjack
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26864815 - 08/05/20 03:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

No one involved was an angel, by a long shot. The issue that really nailed it as a murder to me was how him and Chauvin used to be co-workers at a club and were known to have not gotten along. I think they even got in a fight while working there but you'll need to check.

Just my $.02.


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Offlineshivas.wisdom
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 6
    #26864823 - 08/05/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

None of this justifies the cop kneeling on his neck


Fuck you and your disgusting attempt to justify police murder. <<< worth the ban


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26864839 - 08/05/20 03:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Oh it isn't just me. As I said, over 90% of people reading about this shit seem to agree. Go and check the comments on the this non-conservative sourced Youtube video while enjoying your ban.

This website really is an echo-chamber.


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/05/20 03:37 PM)


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Rapjack]
    #26864841 - 08/05/20 03:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rapjack said:
No one involved was an angel, by a long shot. The issue that really nailed it as a murder to me was how him and Chauvin used to be co-workers at a club and were known to have not gotten along. I think they even got in a fight while working there but you'll need to check.

Just my $.02.





This was strange to me as well.  TBH the murder seemed personal if they truly knew each other. 

a personal vendetta turned into a massive race war in the media?  Is there even an investigation into their history together?

T'was murder either way.  Dude deserves prison or worse but I wish we knew more ( if there is more).


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist] * 3
    #26864847 - 08/05/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

We don't know if it was murder. Floyd had a lethal amount of fentanyl in his system and it was mixed with meth during the autopsy. He may have seen the cops, got scared and took it all to not get busted, which resulted in him O.D.-ing and dying.

A great comment from the Youtube video: "Nobody talks about how high he was and he was driving a damn vehicle... Could of potentially killed innocent people"


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/05/20 03:38 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26864861 - 08/05/20 03:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Transcript of 911 call regarding Floyd:

"Operator: How can I help you?

Caller: Um someone comes our store and give us fake bills and we realize it before he left the store, and we ran back outside, they was sitting on their car. We tell them to give us their phone, put their (inaudible) thing back and everything and he was also drunk and everything and return to give us our cigarettes back and so he can, so he can go home but he doesn't want to do that, and he's sitting on his car cause he is awfully drunk and he's not in control of himself.

Operator: Okay, what type of vehicle does he have?

Caller: And... um he's got a vehicle that is ah...ah he got a vehicle that is ah one second let me see if I can see the license. The driver license is BRJ026.

Operator: Okay, what color is it?

Caller: It's a blue color. It's a blue van.

Operator: Blue van?

Caller: Yes, van.

Operator: Alright blue van, gotcha. Is it out front or is it on 38th ST?

Caller: Ah it's on 38th ST.

Operator: On 38th ST. So, this guy gave a counterfeit bill, has your cigarettes, and he's under the influence of something?

Caller: Something like that, yes. He is not acting right.

Operator: What's he look like, what race?

Caller: Um, he's a tall guy. He's like tall and bald, about like 6...6 1/2, and she's not acting right so and she started to go, drive the car.

Operator: Okay so, female or a male?

Caller: Um...

Operator: Is it a girl or a boy?

Caller: (Talking to somebody else)—he's asking (inaudible) one second. Hello?

Operator: Is it a girl or a boy that did this?

Caller: It is a man.

Operator: Okay. Is he white, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?

Caller: Something like that. ("Something like that" LMAO! No one wanted to admit he was black.)

Operator: Which one? White, black, Native, Hispanic, Asian?

Caller: No, he's a black guy.

Operator: Alright (sigh)."


Public intoxication as well as counterfeit money. License plate was run. Likely matched up to a criminal who had threatened others with live weapons before.

I'm going to keep saying it. Floyd put a gun at a pregnant woman's stomach in order to rob her. He had a fuckin' HISTORY with violent crime.

So of course the cops are gonna be on guard when they get notified, "George Floyd, a man with a violent criminal history, is likely sitting in a van intoxicated outside of this corner store."

Furthermore, the store approached Floyd to explain the bill was fake and Floyd had STOLEN from them and he refused to undo the exchange between them. That now makes him a full thief.

This was NOT some random guy. They RAN his plates. They HAD his history.


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/05/20 03:49 PM)


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OfflineMarxcelium
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26864867 - 08/05/20 03:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Oh it isn't just me. As I said, over 90% of people reading about this shit seem to agree. Go and check the comments on the this non-conservative sourced Youtube video while enjoying your ban.

This website really is an echo-chamber.




Then go lick boot elsewhere.  How are you going to come onto a website primarily about taking and cultivating illegal drugs and think you'll be received as a hero for vomiting out pro-cop takes wherein you justify the murder of a man partly for being high?


Edited by Marxcelium (08/05/20 03:50 PM)


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Marxcelium] * 1
    #26864873 - 08/05/20 03:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Because the drug-war should end and honorable policing has nothing to do with drugs. I stand with all of you on the drug-issue.

However, operating vehicles on certain drugs is still life-threatening. AND CRIMINALS WITH A VIOLENT HISTORY ON DRUGS ARE DANGEROUS. And we need police for so many other things.


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/05/20 03:51 PM)


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 4
    #26864878 - 08/05/20 03:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
None of this justifies the cop kneeling on his neck




I think this is the issue here. He was definitely inebriated, but that doesn't justify having a cop kneel on your neck until you stop breathing.

However, it does seem like they did as much as they could to restrain him and they were running out of options. Policing is a difficult job. Some people are not easy to restrain (they're bigger than the cop, on enough drugs to give them more "strength", etc). So what are the options in such situations? I think this whole situation is a difficult one.

Black people are, on average, profiled more than white people. But at the same time, statistics suggests that they commit crimes at a higher rate than their non-black peers. Are the statistics true? If so, does that justify the increased profiling? If not, what are the underlying causes of said profiling?

America has a host of major problems, the root causes being numerous and complicated. And this situation shows exactly that. There were so many things wrong here and, in each instance, we need to figure out how we as a society are failing.

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
we let our major cities go to hell because of it.




This wasn't about George Floyd. It was about opportunists seizing on the situation to cause chaos and steal. And I'm not talking about peaceful protests. I'm talking about people looting new nikes or flat screen T.Vs. I fail to see how that "honors" the memory of the person they purportedly are fighting for.

Either way, it's all a big mess. America is in a bad place, and was for a while. I think if George Floyd was killed like this say, a couple of years ago, this wouldn't have blown up as much as it had. But with our continued political and economic turmoil (as well as the corona-virus) people just went crazy.

America needs change. But we need honest dialogue about it. And neither side of the political spectrum cares about that.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Marxcelium] * 2
    #26864891 - 08/05/20 03:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Marxcelium said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Oh it isn't just me. As I said, over 90% of people reading about this shit seem to agree. Go and check the comments on the this non-conservative sourced Youtube video while enjoying your ban.

This website really is an echo-chamber.




Then go lick boot elsewhere.  How are you going to come onto a website primarily about taking and cultivating illegal drugs and think you'll be received as a hero for vomiting out pro-cop takes wherein you justify the murder of a man partly for being high?




I don't think OP is trying to be a hero, just opening up more dialogue. Also, as much as I hate the drug LAWS, we cannot blame police for carrying out the LAWS. Police don't enforce laws that don't exist. So we need to change the laws.

And I'm not "pro" police but I'm not anti-police either. I'm for open and honest dialogue on all sides. For what it's worth, I think we need a policing system in our communities, but the current one is poorly trained and too militaristic.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26864934 - 08/05/20 04:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
we cannot blame police for carrying out the LAWS.




Why not?  Are police drafted?  Last I checked, which was some time ago, police apply to become police.  They do this knowing full well that the job is to oppress people.  Why isn't that blameworthy?


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OfflineMarxcelium
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26864940 - 08/05/20 04:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly. The laws are an excuse to impose a racist carceral state maintained by the police, who choose to execute the state's opression of working people, primarily POC, in exchange for a salary.


Edited by Marxcelium (08/05/20 04:21 PM)


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil] * 2
    #26864947 - 08/05/20 04:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The only job a police officer has is to oppress people?


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26864954 - 08/05/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
we cannot blame police for carrying out the LAWS.




Why not?  Are police drafted?  Last I checked, which was some time ago, police apply to become police.  They do this knowing full well that the job is to oppress people.  Why isn't that blameworthy?




Removing the word, "oppress," I mostly agree with this, but I also agree with Socrateshroom kinda, too.

"Just doing my job" is a poor and shitty excuse for betraying your moral code. If your heart says, "no" and your job says, "yes" you might wanna quit your job to save your soul.

But I'm not of the opinion most police have tainted souls. I think the few that do give the rest of them a bad name... and they're easy to highlight on social media to make everyone assume the problem is bigger than it really is.

The case of George Floyd is ambiguous. People aren't pissed off because the cops are in the right. They are pissed off because it is ambiguous and we were lied to about what happpened.

The opposition is pretending like this leaked footage changes nothing when OBVIOUSLY the vast majority of people who are seeing this video DO NOT feel that way. They feel it changes everything.

Look at Reddit censoring the video.

Look at the comments on Youtube.

Rational human beings are pissed off we were lied to. Hell, you could STILL think it was the cops fault but you should STILL be pissed off that you were lied to.


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OfflineMarxcelium
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist]
    #26864962 - 08/05/20 04:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Herbologist said:
The only job a police officer has is to oppress people?




That's the sum total of their effect on society, yes.  They're an arm of the state who's function is to prop up domestic capitalist hegemony.  Do they save a pupper from a hot car every now and then? Yes, because many police officers are genuinely good people who are accidentally doing an evil job.  Just like the troops.


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OfflineFalcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil] * 3
    #26864976 - 08/05/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
...police apply to become police.  They do this knowing full well that the job is to oppress people.



:hmm: :archiebunker:


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist]
    #26864984 - 08/05/20 04:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Herbologist said:
The only job a police officer has is to oppress people?



The primary job, yes.  They also serve to get revenue for the county/city.


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26864999 - 08/05/20 04:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, but I don't think their only job is to oppress people.
Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

Herbologist said:
The only job a police officer has is to oppress people?



The primary job, yes.  They also serve to get revenue for the county/city.




Their primary job is to oppress people?


It's easy to make blanket statements.  I thought that was something we tried to avoid on the shroomery?


We could probably sit here and talk about scumbag lawyers all day and how they fuck over a lot of people?  I mean most are just greasy ambulance chasers aren't they?


Drug users are low life scum bottom of the barrel citizens right?


I dont understand the double standard.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist]
    #26865007 - 08/05/20 04:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

If you want to have those discussions, that's fine.  This thread is about police, though.


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26865044 - 08/05/20 05:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Im just providing examples to your blanket statement, about police


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist]
    #26865055 - 08/05/20 05:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

That doesn't make my statement any less true.


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26865057 - 08/05/20 05:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

How so?

Are blanket statements, overall, truth?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist] * 1
    #26865064 - 08/05/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Some are.  Some aren't.  You can't make a blanket statement about blanket statements and claim they're all false or all true.


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26865065 - 08/05/20 05:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Which ones are true?


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist]
    #26865068 - 08/05/20 05:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Of every blanket statement ever made or potentially made?  How could someone answer that?


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26865078 - 08/05/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So you don't stand behind your blanket statement or you do?


Quote:

Enlil said:
Some are.  Some aren't..





What other blanket statements do you find truth in?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist]
    #26865082 - 08/05/20 05:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I stand behind things I say, yes.

Here's a true blanket statement:

White people benefit from white privilege.

Here's another:

Black people are disadvantaged by white privilege.


Both of those are true.


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OfflineRapjack
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist]
    #26865266 - 08/05/20 06:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)


Quote:

Herbologist said:
Quote:

Rapjack said:
No one involved was an angel, by a long shot. The issue that really nailed it as a murder to me was how him and Chauvin used to be co-workers at a club and were known to have not gotten along. I think they even got in a fight while working there but you'll need to check.

Just my $.02.





This was strange to me as well.  TBH the murder seemed personal if they truly knew each other. 

a personal vendetta turned into a massive race war in the media?  Is there even an investigation into their history together?

T'was murder either way.  Dude deserves prison or worse but I wish we knew more ( if there is more).




There's evidence that they were scheduled on the same nights sometimes. From the sounds of it they knew each other at least enough to be familiar. I'm not 100% sure it was personal, it really could've been coincidence as Minneapolis is a relaively small city. But Chauvin did kneel on Floyd's neck and watched him struggle and lose conciousness knowingly, possibly ok with that because he thought he'd be protected like many other cops before. No matter what it was a cop thinking he could abuse his power and get away with it. And if people didn't riot he probably would've.

The media didn't spin it into a racial issue, the issue is still racial. Black deaths by white police aren't often deeply investigated and even when all evidence points to murder convictions are rare. In Minneapolis in 2018 a Somali cop killed a white Australian woman. He was charged with murder and manslaughter.


Edited by Rapjack (08/05/20 06:38 PM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26865298 - 08/05/20 06:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
...police apply to become police.  They do this knowing full well that the job is to oppress people.



:hmm: :archiebunker:




I think people realize that busting people on technicalities and unjust laws is all part of obtaining the quotas that are expected from cops. So yes, oppressing innocent people is a very serious part of the job in most cases.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26865305 - 08/05/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

"under arrest for forgery"

Like I said, just making shit up as they go along.

:huxleyfacepalm:


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26865320 - 08/05/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

From the beginning of the video, Floyd was terrified that they were going to hurt him. He saw it coming, and they killed him.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26865330 - 08/05/20 07:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

There had to be some prior beef.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #26865333 - 08/05/20 07:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah,  let's blame red meat. Why not?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26865352 - 08/05/20 07:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Just like an idiotic cow,

A mis-steak!


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: SirTripAlot] * 2
    #26865358 - 08/05/20 07:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You've milked the puns to the point of udder retardation. Shit like that puts me in a bad moooood.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26865369 - 08/05/20 07:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Yeah,  let's blame red meat. Why not?




Oink?

Why you such beef with pigs?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Herbologist]
    #26865408 - 08/05/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Herbologist said:
The only job a police officer has is to oppress people?




Sometimes it’s to enrich themselves through graft and corruption


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil] * 1
    #26865410 - 08/05/20 08:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You've milked the puns to the point of udder retardation. Shit like that puts me in a bad moooood.




Maybe you should steer the conversation in a new direction


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26865498 - 08/05/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Most of this is honestly not new information. It was known he was fucked up. It was known he resisted arrest to a degree. I still haven't seen the SS examine the 20$ bill to see if it was counterfeit, but it is known that when the cashier confronted him about the cigarettes, the cashier did not offer his 20$ bill back. It was known he was a felon.

The bigger question is, are any of these crimes worthy execution without trial? For that matter, is there any situation, criminal or not, short of actively killing people, that is worthy of execution without trial?

I think not.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26865505 - 08/05/20 09:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Even killing people doesnt usually land a bullet in your dome or give cops the right to crush the life out of you.

Did the aurora movie theater shooter get killed by police upon arrival?
Did the parkland shooter get killed by police upon arrival?

In this country all criminals have a right to a trial. Like it or not.

If a clerk claimed my bill was illegal and demanded my purchase back but provided
no proof to the bills legitimacy and refused to give it back, I'd be pissed about it too.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26865506 - 08/05/20 09:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Regardless of George Floyd's conduct (on which I'm not informed), I think his death and the countless other deaths acted as catalists.

I don't live in the US, but also in my country a large number of people is racist, especially among older generations, and even politicians get away with being racist and make propaganda out of it.
But thinking that in the US a person can get killed at a police road block just for being black, and seeing how often it happens, feels even worse and almost surreal.

And I'm white, so I can't understand how it feels being black in the US or anywhere else, and IMO no one should judge people on how they react to injustice. What would you do if you risked your own life just for being yourself (not to mention verbal aggressions) and no one seemed to care?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26865511 - 08/05/20 09:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The bigger question is, are any of these crimes worthy execution without trial? For that matter, is there any situation, criminal or not, short of actively killing people, that is worthy of execution without trial?

I think not.




I agree. In fact, if the cop WAS responsible for killing the man, I'm all for punishing the cop.

Was this a racial issue?

No. A man in 2018 died from a cop kneeling on his neck, too. He was white. The footage shows nothing was racially motivated.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: InnerEternity]
    #26865512 - 08/05/20 09:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

*catalyst


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Marxcelium]
    #26865536 - 08/05/20 09:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

shivas.wisdom said:
None of this justifies the cop kneeling on his neck


Fuck you and your disgusting attempt to justify police murder. <<< worth the ban




I don't know a ban but otherwise I totally agree. Cops are professionals and at no point should some murdering piece of shit cop be like "well we tried for 45 minutes and the guy resisted, I think its safe to kneel on his neck seeing his lifeless body go limp as he suffocates, its not murder as long as the full footage comes out people will see what an asshole he really was." :rolleyes: give me a fucking break attitudes like this get the police stations burned down when citizens cannot take this shit anymore. Murder from a fucking cop who is supposed to deal with this daily on a professional level is murder no matter how the guy was acting. Also I have seen cops throw "stiffened" resisting people in the car all the time no matter how they act. There were 4 cops one grabs each limb and they make him get in there.

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Oh it isn't just me. As I said, over 90% of people reading about this shit seem to agree. Go and check the comments on the this non-conservative sourced Youtube video while enjoying your ban.

This website really is an echo-chamber.




Well 90% of cops agree its alright to murder you does it make it ok? I sure wouldn't imagine that stupid argument flies anywhere

Quote:

Herbologist said:
Quote:

Rapjack said:
No one involved was an angel, by a long shot. The issue that really nailed it as a murder to me was how him and Chauvin used to be co-workers at a club and were known to have not gotten along. I think they even got in a fight while working there but you'll need to check.

Just my $.02.





This was strange to me as well.  TBH the murder seemed personal if they truly knew each other. 

a personal vendetta turned into a massive race war in the media?  Is there even an investigation into their history together?

T'was murder either way.  Dude deserves prison or worse but I wish we knew more ( if there is more).




I hope the cop gets raped in his ass for the rest of his life as he knows it

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
We don't know if it was murder. Floyd had a lethal amount of fentanyl in his system and it was mixed with meth during the autopsy. He may have seen the cops, got scared and took it all to not get busted, which resulted in him O.D.-ing and dying.

A great comment from the Youtube video: "Nobody talks about how high he was and he was driving a damn vehicle... Could of potentially killed innocent people"




Maybe it wasn't murder right? Well they were trying to choke and kill the guy maybe he dies on his own so it doesn't really count

Quote:

Marxcelium said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Oh it isn't just me. As I said, over 90% of people reading about this shit seem to agree. Go and check the comments on the this non-conservative sourced Youtube video while enjoying your ban.

This website really is an echo-chamber.




Then go lick boot elsewhere.  How are you going to come onto a website primarily about taking and cultivating illegal drugs and think you'll be received as a hero for vomiting out pro-cop takes wherein you justify the murder of a man partly for being high?




I mean its totally cool for cops to act however they want right? :rolleyes: of course if you fuck with them they can blow you away or choke you out or whatever the fuck. De escalation is not a heavy part of police training and states don't spend huge money on de escalation training at all. If you fuck with them they can do anything. Anything. No questions asked. That is how the law works :lol:


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26865537 - 08/05/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Even killing people doesnt usually land a bullet in your dome or give cops the right to crush the life out of you.

Did the aurora movie theater shooter get killed by police upon arrival?
Did the parkland shooter get killed by police upon arrival?

In this country all criminals have a right to a trial. Like it or not.

If a clerk claimed my bill was illegal and demanded my purchase back but provided
no proof to the bills legitimacy and refused to give it back, I'd be pissed about it too.




Yeah no shit. And those dudes had just shot up dozens of people


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26865568 - 08/05/20 09:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The problem with B.5 is that they didn't know who he was. In the video George identified himself when he was already in handcuffs sitting agianst the side of the building


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26865623 - 08/05/20 10:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

The bigger question is, are any of these crimes worthy execution without trial? For that matter, is there any situation, criminal or not, short of actively killing people, that is worthy of execution without trial?

I think not.




I agree. In fact, if the cop WAS responsible for killing the man, I'm all for punishing the cop.

Was this a racial issue?

No. A man in 2018 died from a cop kneeling on his neck, too. He was white. The footage shows nothing was racially motivated.




Better question: does it matter?

The way I see it, it's not a particularly racial issue. Thing is, as a middle class single white guy with disposable income, I don't really have problems with the cops. I'm never worried. However, my heart rate spikes when I see a cop. Suddenly, I'm not "normal", I'm on my best behavior. Especially when I'm in a poorer neighborhood.

A while back, in college, I worked as a part of the lifeline program. I basically gave poor people free phones. This meant that I, a white guy, spent 90% of my time in the kind of neighborhoods you'd see in the TV show Gangland. Matter of fact, one of the episodes of that show was my primary turf. I remember one time the corner store I set up at got robbed. I didn't call the cops, I didn't even realize what happened until the cops rolled up and approached me shouting "are you okay?", when I was standing in front of a hood convenience store.

I've also been in a copshop basement being questioned about drugs, back when I was an entrepreneur in college.

Thing is, if a guy with a knife is stabbing people, cops are not required to protect me. They can fuck with me if they want, but they don't actually legally have to help if I'm being literally murdered in front of them.

That's not the worst thing that can happen. The people murdering me while the cops stand by could be other cops.

Why would I think highly of cops? I don't know the local cop. If something weird happens and I call the cops, they have an even chance of barreling down my street in armored vehicles or not showing up.

All of these things are worse for non-white people. But they're still pretty shitty for white people. That's why the protests sparked off. It's not only about race. Plenty of poor ass white guys living in trailers were annoyed at getting harassed by cops as well. That's why the Fox News spin cycle is going full blast. It's not a racial issue, but they need it to be. Otherwise, Al Qaeda (to use the Arabic translation for "the base") might turn against Trump.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26865743 - 08/06/20 01:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I stand behind things I say, yes.

Here's a true blanket statement:

White people benefit from white privilege.

Here's another:

Black people are disadvantaged by white privilege.


Both of those are true.




Those aren't blanket statements. The first one is a tautology. The second one is simply a rather vague claim.

A blanket statement would be more like "All black people are disadvantaged by white people" or  "All white people are evil, racist, oppressors of black people".


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Peyote Road]
    #26865808 - 08/06/20 04:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

There’s only one murderer in those videos


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Peyote Road]
    #26865810 - 08/06/20 04:50 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
I stand behind things I say, yes.

Here's a true blanket statement:

White people benefit from white privilege.

Here's another:

Black people are disadvantaged by white privilege.


Both of those are true.




Those aren't blanket statements. The first one is a tautology. The second one is simply a rather vague claim.

A blanket statement would be more like "All black people are disadvantaged by white people" or  "All white people are evil, racist, oppressors of black people".




All white people is a much more specific claim


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Enlil]
    #26865857 - 08/06/20 06:17 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

English isn't my native language.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26866136 - 08/06/20 10:16 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The way the OP has chosen to tell this story is a major deviation from reality.

1. Even after rioting and violence, most of the public continues to support the protest. They have been doing polling on this every week. Yet the OP wants us to believe the opposite.
Sometimes he blames the media for distortion and sometimes this forum. Nope, it's him.

2. He keeps repeating the lie that the autopsy showed lethal amounts of fentanyl. The autopsy clearly states that drugs were not a cause of death. I pointed that out to him right after the story broke, and there is no new information that alters that conclusion. I don't know whether he thinks that if you tell a lie enough times it becomes believable, or he just gets his information from the worst sources.

Floyd had drugs in his system. The autopsy also showed he had sickle cell anemia and was positive for covid-19. Those didn't kill him either.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Brian Jones] * 3
    #26866141 - 08/06/20 10:17 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Vahn is like cartman. Tell the lie enough times and it becomes reality. He's even managed
to convince himself that his own lie is fact, just like a true cartman.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #26866262 - 08/06/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

1. Even after rioting and violence, most of the public continues to support the protest.




They do not.

Quote:

He keeps repeating the lie that the autopsy showed lethal amounts of fentanyl. The autopsy clearly states that drugs were not a cause of death.




The autopsy reported the cause of death was cardiac arrest, not asphyxiation. In fact, if I recall correctly, asphyxiation wasn't even mentioned as related to the cause at all.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26866354 - 08/06/20 11:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Everyone dies of cardiac arrest. I’m sure there is also mechanism that brought about the cardiac arrest


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26866407 - 08/06/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
I stand behind things I say, yes.

Here's a true blanket statement:

White people benefit from white privilege.

Here's another:

Black people are disadvantaged by white privilege.


Both of those are true.




Those aren't blanket statements. The first one is a tautology. The second one is simply a rather vague claim.

A blanket statement would be more like "All black people are disadvantaged by white people" or  "All white people are evil, racist, oppressors of black people".




All white people is a much more specific claim




I know, I was giving an example of an extreme blanket statement to make a point.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Peyote Road]
    #26866435 - 08/06/20 12:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So many points being made and statements being made to further enhance more points being made. Which is the best point though? Which statement is the most accurate?

As I have said though killing a man is wrong always unless in 100% absolutely necessary self defense.

A man in handcuffs is not someone you need to defend yourself against unless the handcuffs are broken and he is on top of you instead of you being on top of him. There was no reason for Derek Chauvin to choke George Floyd until he was no longer alive. No justice no peace


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 3
    #26866561 - 08/06/20 02:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Oh it isn't just me. As I said, over 90% of people reading about this shit seem to agree. Go and check the comments on the this non-conservative sourced Youtube video while enjoying your ban.

This website really is an echo-chamber.



We argue constantly on this website you know that, couldn't be farther from an echo chamber if 90% of people in your discussion are in agreement that this dude deserved to die that way you may be in an echo chamber of racists. Just because you're on some white supremists echo chamber section of comments where 90% of people agree with you, 100 % of the people including you are excusing the actions of a Murderer for either racial hatred or political agenda plain and simple. At first people against the protests said "who's saying this wasn't a racist murder?" These people are. Scum of the earth.


--------------------
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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26867569 - 08/07/20 01:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

1. Even after rioting and violence, most of the public continues to support the protest.




They do not.

Quote:

He keeps repeating the lie that the autopsy showed lethal amounts of fentanyl. The autopsy clearly states that drugs were not a cause of death.




The autopsy reported the cause of death was cardiac arrest, not asphyxiation. In fact, if I recall correctly, asphyxiation wasn't even mentioned as related to the cause at all.




On the first point you are wrong but what's the point in arguing with someone who gets their messages from outer space.

On the second point the issue was not whether the autopsy said the cause of death was cardiac arrest or asphyxiation. The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.


--------------------
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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26867662 - 08/07/20 05:20 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

2. He keeps repeating the lie that the autopsy showed lethal amounts of fentanyl. The autopsy clearly states that drugs were not a cause of death. I pointed that out to him right after the story broke, and there is no new information that alters that conclusion. I don't know whether he thinks that if you tell a lie enough times it becomes believable, or he just gets his information from the worst sources.



It was potentially a fatal amount, particularly if the person had no tolerance built up. It's not what caused his death though. If someone is ODing on fentanyl and they're on the ground like that they're supposed to be turned on their side. Chauvin refuses to do so for some mysterious reason. After finding out he has no pulse he keeps him pinned down instead of doing CPR or letting someone else do CPR for some mysterious reason. Instead of putting him the ambulance immediately and bringing him to the hospital they delay the paramedics for some mysterious reason. Now we find out Chauvin's body camera apparently fell off for some mysterious reason.

Regardless of the extent the drugs contributed to his death it's pretty clear he wanted this man dead. Excited delirium is essentially police code for "We're going to kill this guy and blame the drugs." and that's exactly what they did.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Kizzle] * 1
    #26867739 - 08/07/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

egardless of the extent the drugs contributed to his death it's pretty clear he wanted this man dead.




No it isn't.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26867740 - 08/07/20 07:04 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.




I read the autopsy report. I'm not sure how you can make such a statement. We're looking for answers because there are no definitive ones yet.

Ironically, you're accusing me of assuming something when my only position is we should assume nothing. Whether or not he managed to survive such a high dose of fentanyl is not relevant to the fact he likely had a lethal amount in his system for an average body.


Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 07:05 AM)


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26867783 - 08/07/20 07:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Oh it isn't just me. As I said, over 90% of people reading about this shit seem to agree. Go and check the comments on the this non-conservative sourced Youtube video while enjoying your ban.

This website really is an echo-chamber.




I was going to give this thread a decent look, but then I got to this post.

“over 90% of people reading about this shit seem to agree.”

Then;

“Go and check the comments on the this non-conservative sourced Youtube video”

That’s impossible to take seriously. Especially in light of your echo chamber comment. You will turn on a dime to support whatever bullshit angle you are peddling in that moment.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: christopera]
    #26867789 - 08/07/20 07:42 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It's not concrete evidence, it's the start of a breadcrumb trail.

I've got PLENTY of sources I draw from, but I don't expect anyone here to go chasing them all.

I don't have an agenda aside from the truth. I've basically been the only one sourcing my claims and the only one who has conceded when I've mis-spoke on an issue. Regarding the latter in particular,  I haven't seen any of my opposition do this, even once, and yet I'm the one peddling bullshit that has an angle. Ok, sure. :rolleyes:


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 07:43 AM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26867799 - 08/07/20 07:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You believe that you are agenda free, yet you are unwilling to admit that estimating the percentage of bias in YouTube comments has no bearing on reality. This is confirmation bias, you are willing to find any evidence that supports your claim no matter how worthless and stupid that evidence is.

The sad part is that you aren’t even trolling. You actually believe this shit.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: christopera]
    #26867805 - 08/07/20 07:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I wasn't looking for evidence to support my ideals. I asked my self, "How are other people feeling about this?" And I perused over multiple different sources to look for what people were saying.

Check any social media site you want. Read the comments. Listen to the debates. How hard is it to believe a simple statement like , "This place has a bias." (Obviously.)

The only truth I care about is the actual truth. For some reason that simple statement is hard for a lot of you to grasp. Not my problem. Look within. :wink:


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 07:54 AM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26867809 - 08/07/20 07:56 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You are making shit up, over 90% of people reading about this shit agree.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: christopera]
    #26867834 - 08/07/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Tell me what I've made up, good sir. I'm dying to hear it.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 3
    #26867982 - 08/07/20 09:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.




I read the autopsy report. I'm not sure how you can make such a statement. We're looking for answers because there are no definitive ones yet.

Ironically, you're accusing me of assuming something when my only position is we should assume nothing. Whether or not he managed to survive such a high dose of fentanyl is not relevant to the fact he likely had a lethal amount in his system for an average body.




We have no idea if he had a "high dose of fentanyl" in his system, correct?  So why claim he had a "lethal amount in his system"?  People that are about to OD on fentanyl are not even conscious, they don't drive to stores to buy items, they don't walk around, they don't even talk. So this lethal dose theory is pure nonsense, try again.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26868083 - 08/07/20 10:29 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.




I read the autopsy report. I'm not sure how you can make such a statement. We're looking for answers because there are no definitive ones yet.

Ironically, you're accusing me of assuming something when my only position is we should assume nothing




You’re assuming he had a lethal dose of fentanyl. People who take lethal doses of fentanyl are not walking around the city. They are comatose within seconds.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26868086 - 08/07/20 10:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

you ought to have PROOF of what the general consensus about this is.




You should take your own advice.

Going to YouTube and reading through comments is completely worthless and in no way forms a consensus. You should understand that, but you clearly don’t.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman] * 2
    #26868180 - 08/07/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.




I read the autopsy report. I'm not sure how you can make such a statement. We're looking for answers because there are no definitive ones yet.

Ironically, you're accusing me of assuming something when my only position is we should assume nothing. Whether or not he managed to survive such a high dose of fentanyl is not relevant to the fact he likely had a lethal amount in his system for an average body.




We have no idea if he had a "high dose of fentanyl" in his system, correct?  So why claim he had a "lethal amount in his system"?  People that are about to OD on fentanyl are not even conscious, they don't drive to stores to buy items, they don't walk around, they don't even talk. So this lethal dose theory is pure nonsense, try again.




https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/07/what-is-a-fatal-dose-of-fentanyl/

“Despite the ubiquitous presence of multiple drugs in these decedents, the effects of fentanyl were evidently so strong that there were no statistical differences in the fentanyl level (mean and standard deviation) with or without the presence of these co-intoxicants. The range of fentanyl levels (death dose) was wide, from 0.75 to 113 ng/mL, with an average of 9.96 ng/mL; nevertheless, the distributions of fentanyl levels were statistically the same, whether fentanyl was the only drug in the toxicology or one of several synergistic co-intoxicants. This suggests that fentanyl presence alone seems to be sufficient to cause death, which are findings similar to those found in Sorg et al., 2016.”


Let’s see if we can understand what we are being told.  Fentanyl is itself so toxic that it is sufficient to kill without help from other dangerous drugs in the cocktail.  People who died from fentanyl overdose had readings from 0.75 ng/mL to an astounding 113 ng/mL.  The average death dose was 9.96 ng/mL.

According to George Floyd’s toxicology report, his blood contained 11.0 ng/mL Fentanyl, PLUS 5.6 ng/mL norfentanyl, 19 ng/mL of methamphetamine, and three other drugs."


6 drug cocktail. Honestly, I'm kind of impressed.


Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 11:36 AM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26868198 - 08/07/20 11:40 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Norfentanyl is a metabolite. He was probably an opiate addict and that amount of fentanyl was physiologically not significant.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods] * 1
    #26868247 - 08/07/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe, maybe not. Maybe the fentanyl did kill him. Maybe he panic took it right before the cop arrived. Maybe he didn't. Maybe it was one of the other drugs that killed him. Maybe it would have been none of the drugs individually but the cocktail of drugs kill him. Maybe none of the drugs WOULD have killed him, but the panic and the knee on the neck worsened the flow of air/blood just enough to push him into death. Maybe the knee would have killed him anyway even if he had no drugs in his system. (I rationally doubt this last one, but I'm willing to entertain it still. I find any of the other possibilities to be equally likely. Maybe there's another possibility entirely we haven't considered, too.)


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 12:14 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26868260 - 08/07/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Cops have a duty to give medical care to people in custody.  He said he couldn't breathe.  Even if their conduct had absolutely nothing to do with his death (which it clearly did), they still violated his civil rights by failing to provide medical care when he first said he couldn't breathe.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26868402 - 08/07/20 01:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
I wasn't looking for evidence to support my ideals. I asked my self, "How are other people feeling about this?" And I perused over multiple different sources to look for what people were saying.

Check any social media site you want. Read the comments. Listen to the debates. How hard is it to believe a simple statement like , "This place has a bias." (Obviously.)

The only truth I care about is the actual truth. For some reason that simple statement is hard for a lot of you to grasp. Not my problem. Look within. :wink:





That's exactly what you are doing, you're cherry picking the fent part when it doesn't matter in the slightest what he had in his system in this situation.
God you're a terrible person, the consensus is that it's obvious this was murder one of the first cases with 0 ambiguity that has even police across the country saying what Chauvin did was obvious murder. Hell I know a racist that said it was obviously murder. You're trying to explain away a man with a gun kneeling on an unarmed detained man's throat for almost 9 full minutes. Try talking to people in real life about this instead of citing neo Nazi punks commenting on YouTube the shitpost of all shitposting. Notice no one, not even the racists here are agreeing with you take a fucking hint.

Also I don't know how stupid you are but when I look on Facebook different posts come up because I'm not friends with the same people as you. Obviously you're friend pool is the scum of the earth but my social media was flooded with nothing but this guy was murdered plain and simple. That's what I saw on MY social media.

Seriously you're the one that needs to look within, you're not spouting truth you're spouting hate, you're spouting justification for murder. I would never want anything in real life to do with you and God pity the woman or man that ends up with you.


--------------------
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26868441 - 08/07/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

it doesn't matter in the slightest what he had in his system in this situation.




For legal reasons it absolutely, 100% does matter.

Also, it seems no one can accept a nuanced opinion around here. If you're not 100% on George Floyd's side, you're evil. Am I getting this right? I have already stated I think the cop should be punished if he truly was responsible for Floyd's death. I'd rather be certain first.

And the most important point that everyone is ignoring that I underlined in my OP was that a RACE WAR started over this when it had NOTHING to do with race.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26868451 - 08/07/20 01:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

You really think we're in a race war right now?

Dude get off the internet for a while. Seriously. Go fish or something


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26868470 - 08/07/20 02:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You really think we're in a race war right now?




Indisputably. Not that I want to be.

And it's going to get worse.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 3
    #26868479 - 08/07/20 02:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Your race war exists in YouTube comments. Good luck out there buddy, hopefully nobody fucks your mom.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: christopera]
    #26868481 - 08/07/20 02:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Well, if necrophilia is your thing.

Is it your thing, christopera? You want a go at her corpse?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26868485 - 08/07/20 02:15 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Ha wow ok dude you are obviously delusional.

In arguments 3 main contributions to an argument must be accounted for for the argument to be credible on its nose:

Ethos, pathos,and logos.

You dont seem capable of arguing to the ethos or logos of anybody but fal.
If you truly think we're in a current race war then I don't know what else to say to you.

You are in no way credible and may be slightly delusional or at the very least
living in a bubble /echo chamber of your own making, obviously assisted by consumption of narrative driven media.

All you have to do is go outside to knkw that isnt true. I went to the protests
in denver and multiple black people in the crowd next to me said they
were glad white people turned out because it isnt a black vs. white issue.

The media you choose to consume is trying to make it one but it isnt at its core and everyone who is ACTUALLY THERE knows this.

Sometimes, in argumentation, the credibility of the opponent must be evaluated
and your credibility is seriously diminished by your obviously outlandish beliefs.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26868497 - 08/07/20 02:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Well, if necrophilia is your thing.

Is it your thing, christopera? You want a go at her corpse?




I’d think if you knew anything about YouTube comments you’d at least understand a solid internet joke. It guess it makes sense though.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26868502 - 08/07/20 02:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Ha wow ok dude you are obviously delusional.

In arguments 3 main contributions to an argument must be accounted for for the argument to be credible on its nose:

Ethos, pathos,and logos.

You dont seem capable of arguing to the ethos or logos of anybody but fal.
If you truly think we're in a current race war then I don't know what else to say to you.

You are in no way credible and may be slightly delusional or at the very least
living in a bubble /echo chamber of your own making, obviously assisted by consumption of narrative driven media.

All you have to do is go outside to knkw that isnt true. I went to the protests
in denver and multiple black people in the crowd next to me said they
were glad white people turned out because it isnt a black vs. white issue.

The media you choose to consume is trying to make it one but it isnt at its core and everyone who is ACTUALLY THERE knows this.

Sometimes, in argumentation, the credibility of the opponent must be evaluated
and your credibility is seriously diminished by your obviously outlandish beliefs.




Damn dude, you used the word, "you" 7 times in that post. You also used, "your" 3 times.

I'm impressed. I think you just broke a record.

The logos here is lacking in general.

If I appeal to the logos of Fal, that's good because he's take either side and tries to follow the evidence like I do. I appreciate the compliment. (Though he isn't the only one here who seems to see things similar to me.)




--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 02:23 PM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: christopera]
    #26868507 - 08/07/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

christopera said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Well, if necrophilia is your thing.

Is it your thing, christopera? You want a go at her corpse?




I’d think if you knew anything about YouTube comments you’d at least understand a solid internet joke. It guess it makes sense though.




My mom's not dead, either. Cuz, jokes.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26868530 - 08/07/20 02:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Dude not even fal sees a race war. If he does then he's clinical too.

Won't be surprised at all if fal comes in here to your defense though. Playing DA is his pass time.

Also, nice way to deflect instead of defend your outrageous views


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26868538 - 08/07/20 02:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.




I read the autopsy report. I'm not sure how you can make such a statement. We're looking for answers because there are no definitive ones yet.

Ironically, you're accusing me of assuming something when my only position is we should assume nothing




You’re assuming he had a lethal dose of fentanyl. People who take lethal doses of fentanyl are not walking around the city. They are comatose within seconds.




Yes

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.




I read the autopsy report. I'm not sure how you can make such a statement. We're looking for answers because there are no definitive ones yet.

Ironically, you're accusing me of assuming something when my only position is we should assume nothing. Whether or not he managed to survive such a high dose of fentanyl is not relevant to the fact he likely had a lethal amount in his system for an average body.




We have no idea if he had a "high dose of fentanyl" in his system, correct?  So why claim he had a "lethal amount in his system"?  People that are about to OD on fentanyl are not even conscious, they don't drive to stores to buy items, they don't walk around, they don't even talk. So this lethal dose theory is pure nonsense, try again.




https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/07/what-is-a-fatal-dose-of-fentanyl/

“Despite the ubiquitous presence of multiple drugs in these decedents, the effects of fentanyl were evidently so strong that there were no statistical differences in the fentanyl level (mean and standard deviation) with or without the presence of these co-intoxicants. The range of fentanyl levels (death dose) was wide, from 0.75 to 113 ng/mL, with an average of 9.96 ng/mL; nevertheless, the distributions of fentanyl levels were statistically the same, whether fentanyl was the only drug in the toxicology or one of several synergistic co-intoxicants. This suggests that fentanyl presence alone seems to be sufficient to cause death, which are findings similar to those found in Sorg et al., 2016.”


Let’s see if we can understand what we are being told.  Fentanyl is itself so toxic that it is sufficient to kill without help from other dangerous drugs in the cocktail.  People who died from fentanyl overdose had readings from 0.75 ng/mL to an astounding 113 ng/mL.  The average death dose was 9.96 ng/mL.

According to George Floyd’s toxicology report, his blood contained 11.0 ng/mL Fentanyl, PLUS 5.6 ng/mL norfentanyl, 19 ng/mL of methamphetamine, and three other drugs."


6 drug cocktail. Honestly, I'm kind of impressed.




Well that is a good point

Quote:

koods said:
Norfentanyl is a metabolite. He was probably an opiate addict and that amount of fentanyl was physiologically not significant.




Maybe

Quote:

Enlil said:
Cops have a duty to give medical care to people in custody.  He said he couldn't breathe.  Even if their conduct had absolutely nothing to do with his death (which it clearly did), they still violated his civil rights by failing to provide medical care when he first said he couldn't breathe.




This is the main point all together. Regardless of anything else they did not perform their duty and wether the intent was to murder George Floyd or simply provoke him by holding him to the ground for minutes after he became lifeless they committed homicide by refusing to give him medical attention and possibly 2nd or 3rd degree murder by intending to hurt him beyond the point of him being able to help himself wether it was premeditated or not and the fact it was premeditated has not been entirely ruled out.

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

You really think we're in a race war right now?




Indisputably. Not that I want to be.

And it's going to get worse.




I think you are right as a matter of coincidence. This has nothing to do with race. You pointed out facts and I like that you finally started trying to bring this discussion into the realm of a factual argument. But the only thing to me that is indisputable is that it is a race war argument you started. You have begun to take it away from that direction but fearfully I see you bringing it back in that direction.


--------------------
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: imachavel]
    #26868543 - 08/07/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Nice post. Just gonna slip this in here. (Speaking of race wars, I hope people don't think by "war" I mean fists or violence. Wars are fought with ideas and technology in 2020. There are people trying to divide us and classify us by race again. The "wokes" are leading the charge.)



--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 02:41 PM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #26868547 - 08/07/20 02:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Dude not even fal sees a race war. If he does then he's clinical too.

Won't be surprised at all if fal comes in here to your defense though. Playing DA is his pass time.

Also, nice way to deflect instead of defend your outrageous views



Vahn's posted plenty of videos showing the reasons why he believes there's a race war.  Should I repost some of them?

The response has generally been to criticize Vahn as a person, rather than criticize his arguments.  Very much like you've preempted your response to me with "If he (Falcon91Wolvnr03) does (see a race war) then he's clinical too".

You want to attack the person, Vahn (and I) would prefer you attack the argument.  :shrug:


--------------------
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26868576 - 08/07/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

What?

I did criticize his idea. It's outlandish on its face. Now, arguments are argued
by people, and the credibility of the debater is relevant. If you honestly think
we are engaged in a race war between citizens then you've also lost credibility.

Like I said, vahn is in a bubble of his own creation. He sees a race war because he
follows media that pushes that narrative. I interact with minorities daily and
not once has one expressed hatred or the idea of a war.

Go outside for fucks sake


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #26868647 - 08/07/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Pfft.... your version of "war" is severely exaggerated. I could define the terms of what, "war" means to clarify my point, but I'm feeling way too lazy.

Instead, I'll just say I'm disappointed that you assume my idea of what "war" means is that I walk outside and get punched by black people. That's clearly not what I mean. Maybe next time you could ask what I mean and we could have a conversation about it before you assume.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26868726 - 08/07/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I think we all know what the word war means.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26868727 - 08/07/20 04:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Dude not even fal sees a race war. If he does then he's clinical too.

Won't be surprised at all if fal comes in here to your defense though. Playing DA is his pass time.

Also, nice way to deflect instead of defend your outrageous views



Vahn's posted plenty of videos showing the reasons why he believes there's a race war.  Should I repost some of them?

The response has generally been to criticize Vahn as a person, rather than criticize his arguments.  Very much like you've preempted your response to me with "If he (Falcon91Wolvnr03) does (see a race war) then he's clinical too".

You want to attack the person, Vahn (and I) would prefer you attack the argument.  :shrug:



Yes, please share the evidence Vahn has offered in support of the existence of a race war. I would love to attack the argument.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26868735 - 08/07/20 04:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Pfft.... your version of "war" is severely exaggerated. I could define the terms of what, "war" means to clarify my point, but I'm feeling way too lazy.

Instead, I'll just say I'm disappointed that you assume my idea of what "war" means is that I walk outside and get punched by black people. That's clearly not what I mean. Maybe next time you could ask what I mean and we could have a conversation about it before you assume.



What, so none of the rest of us deserve a clarification of your argument because one person said mean things? It probably would have taken less words to just provide your special definition of war but who am I to question this subforums masterdebater


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: shivas.wisdom]
    #26868744 - 08/07/20 04:44 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

So here we are again, where we're forced to ascertain the meaning of vahns words.

Dude war has a specific meaning. If you didnt mean war, then choose a different fucking word.

I guess your outrage is forcing you to hyperbolize


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #26868767 - 08/07/20 05:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Pfft.... your version of "war" is severely exaggerated. I could define the terms of what, "war" means to clarify my point, but I'm feeling way too lazy.

Instead, I'll just say I'm disappointed that you assume my idea of what "war" means is that I walk outside and get punched by black people. That's clearly not what I mean. Maybe next time you could ask what I mean and we could have a conversation about it before you assume.




:hahthatsrich:

Ok, now you're trolling


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26868844 - 08/07/20 05:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:

Maybe next time you could ask what I mean and we could have a conversation about it before you assume.




We all have been asking, what you mean.


--------------------
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Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26868876 - 08/07/20 06:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Dude not even fal sees a race war. If he does then he's clinical too.

Won't be surprised at all if fal comes in here to your defense though. Playing DA is his pass time.

Also, nice way to deflect instead of defend your outrageous views



Vahn's posted plenty of videos showing the reasons why he believes there's a race war.  Should I repost some of them?

The response has generally been to criticize Vahn as a person, rather than criticize his arguments.  Very much like you've preempted your response to me with "If he (Falcon91Wolvnr03) does (see a race war) then he's clinical too".

You want to attack the person, Vahn (and I) would prefer you attack the argument.  :shrug:




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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26868932 - 08/07/20 07:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I think we all know what the word war means.



Of course we do.  But can you please define "race war"?  Depending on the answer, then we can better assess if there is or isn't a race war.  I'm not as clear on what it means as you are.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26868939 - 08/07/20 07:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Put the two words together, or just google it. You’re ridiculous.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26868945 - 08/07/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Put the two words together, or just google it. You’re ridiculous.



Is putting two words together how you would get the definition for "cold war"?

Edit:  Maybe you can help with a Google search?  I didn't find a dictionary definition.


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
    #26868954 - 08/07/20 07:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

A race war is a war with armed conflict between races. A cold race war would be one without armed conflict. Thank you for confirming this.


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NotSheekle said
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26868984 - 08/07/20 07:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

By that definition, we're not in a race war.  That was easy, wasn't it?

You couldn't find a dictionary definition either, huh?


--------------------
I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them.  I also attack my side if I think they're wrong.  People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #26869073 - 08/07/20 08:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
So here we are again, where we're forced to ascertain the meaning of vahns words.

Dude war has a specific meaning. If you didnt mean war, then choose a different fucking word.

I guess your outrage is forcing you to hyperbolize




War means something completely different from, "Race War."

If you Google "Race War" it redirects you to, "Ethnic Conflict."

Here is what is said about Ethnic Conflict: An ethnic conflict is a conflict between two or more contending ethnic groups. While the source of the conflict may be political, social, economic or religious, the individuals in conflict must expressly fight for their ethnic group's position within society.

Fuck, sounds like they just hit every nail on the head. :shrug:


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] * 1
    #26869076 - 08/07/20 08:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Your argument is with vahn. You should ask him to source or make believe.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26869083 - 08/07/20 08:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Dude not even fal sees a race war. If he does then he's clinical too.

Won't be surprised at all if fal comes in here to your defense though. Playing DA is his pass time.

Also, nice way to deflect instead of defend your outrageous views



Vahn's posted plenty of videos showing the reasons why he believes there's a race war.  Should I repost some of them?

The response has generally been to criticize Vahn as a person, rather than criticize his arguments.  Very much like you've preempted your response to me with "If he (Falcon91Wolvnr03) does (see a race war) then he's clinical too".

You want to attack the person, Vahn (and I) would prefer you attack the argument.  :shrug:




Falcon sticking up for tyrants and their bootlickers since 2016




Remember that one time I agreed with you just yesterday that Trump's most recent speech interview was a disaster?


--------------------


Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 08:27 PM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26869086 - 08/07/20 08:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
So here we are again, where we're forced to ascertain the meaning of vahns words.

Dude war has a specific meaning. If you didnt mean war, then choose a different fucking word.

I guess your outrage is forcing you to hyperbolize




War means something completely different from, "Race War."

If you Google "Race War" it redirects you to, "Ethnic Conflict."

Here is what is said about Ethnic Conflict: An ethnic conflict is a conflict between two or more contending ethnic groups. While the source of the conflict may be political, social, economic or religious, the individuals in conflict must expressly fight for their ethnic group's position within society.

Fuck, sounds like they just hit every nail on the head. :shrug:




Source or make believe since falcon refuses to hold you up to his capricious standard


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26869087 - 08/07/20 08:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Dude not even fal sees a race war. If he does then he's clinical too.

Won't be surprised at all if fal comes in here to your defense though. Playing DA is his pass time.

Also, nice way to deflect instead of defend your outrageous views



Vahn's posted plenty of videos showing the reasons why he believes there's a race war.  Should I repost some of them?

The response has generally been to criticize Vahn as a person, rather than criticize his arguments.  Very much like you've preempted your response to me with "If he (Falcon91Wolvnr03) does (see a race war) then he's clinical too".

You want to attack the person, Vahn (and I) would prefer you attack the argument.  :shrug:




Falcon sticking up for tyrants and their bootlickers since 2016




Remember that one time I agreed with you just yesterday that Trump's most recent speech was a disaster?




So?


--------------------
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26869091 - 08/07/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

natedawgnow said:
So here we are again, where we're forced to ascertain the meaning of vahns words.

Dude war has a specific meaning. If you didnt mean war, then choose a different fucking word.

I guess your outrage is forcing you to hyperbolize




War means something completely different from, "Race War."

If you Google "Race War" it redirects you to, "Ethnic Conflict."

Here is what is said about Ethnic Conflict: An ethnic conflict is a conflict between two or more contending ethnic groups. While the source of the conflict may be political, social, economic or religious, the individuals in conflict must expressly fight for their ethnic group's position within society.

Fuck, sounds like they just hit every nail on the head. :shrug:




Source or make believe since falcon refuses to hold you up to his capricious standard




Source for what? I just told you what to Google. It pops up on the first page. That's literally as good as posting a source here.

80,000 posts and you can't type a few words into a search engine. :lol:


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26869101 - 08/07/20 08:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Source that we’re in a race war. Sounds like you just have very poorly constructed opinions


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (08/07/20 08:34 PM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods] * 1
    #26869103 - 08/07/20 08:36 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Wow dude :facepalm:

Again, there is no ethnic conflict because this isnt a white vs. black issue.
While racism is part of the issue, there is no conflict between the majority of white peeps and black peeps.

Seriously. I'm sorry your infosphere wont let you accept that.
You think this shit is on par with rwandan genocide when in reality it's people
of all color asking for police reform.

Again, hyperbolic as fuck


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26869106 - 08/07/20 08:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Re-quoting my self:

Quote:

Here is what is said about Ethnic Conflict: An ethnic conflict is a conflict between two or more contending ethnic groups. While the source of the conflict may be political, social, economic or religious, the individuals in conflict must expressly fight for their ethnic group's position within society.




I know you guys seem to hate the phrase, "self-evident" a lot, but I mean really. Just observe the state of America right now. You can check every box. And it's only going to get worse before it gets better. Just wait until after November! That's when the REAL fun begins!


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26869107 - 08/07/20 08:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Again, there is no ethnic conflict because this isnt a white vs. black issue.




I'M not conflicted, but your head is in the sand if you haven't seen how both the far-right and the far-left have made everything about race.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26869110 - 08/07/20 08:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Unless cops are a race, there’s no race war in America.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26869111 - 08/07/20 08:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

Again, there is no ethnic conflict because this isnt a white vs. black issue.




I'M not conflicted, but your head is in the sand if you haven't seen how both the far-right and the far-left have made everything about race.




It’s time to leave your moms basement and experience the real world


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26869115 - 08/07/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Examples of ethnic conflicts:
Rwanda genocide
Holocaust
Bosnian war
Iraqi genocide

The civil rights movement isnt even defined as an ethnic conflict. Just because
you want things to be so doesn't make them so.

You have obviously fallen for propaganda if you still cant tell what this is about dude


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods] * 1
    #26869116 - 08/07/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

Again, there is no ethnic conflict because this isnt a white vs. black issue.




I'M not conflicted, but your head is in the sand if you haven't seen how both the far-right and the far-left have made everything about race.




It’s time to leave your moms basement and experience the real world




My career has put me in over 10,000 homes in 15 different states. I've likely been in YOUR mom's basement.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26869118 - 08/07/20 08:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Do you have to enter black peoples homes with a gun since we’re in the middle of a race war?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods] * 1
    #26869126 - 08/07/20 08:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:lmafo:


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26869143 - 08/07/20 08:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Do you have to enter black peoples homes with a gun since we’re in the middle of a race war?





They've actually been some of if not my best customers. Way down to earth, practical, pragmatic people. At least the ones I've worked with.


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Edited by Vahn421 (08/07/20 08:57 PM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26869363 - 08/08/20 12:47 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.




I read the autopsy report. I'm not sure how you can make such a statement. We're looking for answers because there are no definitive ones yet.

Ironically, you're accusing me of assuming something when my only position is we should assume nothing. Whether or not he managed to survive such a high dose of fentanyl is not relevant to the fact he likely had a lethal amount in his system for an average body.




Sort of like how there's no definitive answer as to what killed Abraham Lincoln. Maybe it was a gunshot or maybe he already had a hole in his head when he got to the theater and it was a pure coincidence he died at the same time the gun went off.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Kizzle]
    #26869372 - 08/08/20 01:07 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.




I read the autopsy report. I'm not sure how you can make such a statement. We're looking for answers because there are no definitive ones yet.

Ironically, you're accusing me of assuming something when my only position is we should assume nothing. Whether or not he managed to survive such a high dose of fentanyl is not relevant to the fact he likely had a lethal amount in his system for an average body.




Sort of like how there's no definitive answer as to what killed Abraham Lincoln.


Not really, no.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: djbluntmagic]
    #26869405 - 08/08/20 02:00 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Well, did we do a complete autopsy? Maybe Lincoln had a fatal overdose of fentanyl in his system at the time?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Kryptos]
    #26869456 - 08/08/20 03:43 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Did he die FROM a hole in his head, or WITH a hole in his head?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26869460 - 08/08/20 03:47 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

koods said:
Do you have to enter black peoples homes with a gun since we’re in the middle of a race war?





They've actually been some of if not my best customers. Way down to earth, practical, pragmatic people. At least the ones I've worked with.




I’m sure they are, but we are at war!


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 1
    #26869473 - 08/08/20 04:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

The issue was the "lethal dose of fentanyl" bullshit that you can't stop spewing. To cover your ass, you've come up with this theory that he just ingested a bunch right before the police got there, but that's just an idea that's in your brain, and has nothing to do with the autopsy report.




I read the autopsy report. I'm not sure how you can make such a statement. We're looking for answers because there are no definitive ones yet.

Ironically, you're accusing me of assuming something when my only position is we should assume nothing. Whether or not he managed to survive such a high dose of fentanyl is not relevant to the fact he likely had a lethal amount in his system for an average body.




We have no idea if he had a "high dose of fentanyl" in his system, correct?  So why claim he had a "lethal amount in his system"?  People that are about to OD on fentanyl are not even conscious, they don't drive to stores to buy items, they don't walk around, they don't even talk. So this lethal dose theory is pure nonsense, try again.




https://www.sgtreport.com/2020/07/what-is-a-fatal-dose-of-fentanyl/

“Despite the ubiquitous presence of multiple drugs in these decedents, the effects of fentanyl were evidently so strong that there were no statistical differences in the fentanyl level (mean and standard deviation) with or without the presence of these co-intoxicants. The range of fentanyl levels (death dose) was wide, from 0.75 to 113 ng/mL, with an average of 9.96 ng/mL; nevertheless, the distributions of fentanyl levels were statistically the same, whether fentanyl was the only drug in the toxicology or one of several synergistic co-intoxicants. This suggests that fentanyl presence alone seems to be sufficient to cause death, which are findings similar to those found in Sorg et al., 2016.”


Let’s see if we can understand what we are being told.  Fentanyl is itself so toxic that it is sufficient to kill without help from other dangerous drugs in the cocktail.  People who died from fentanyl overdose had readings from 0.75 ng/mL to an astounding 113 ng/mL.  The average death dose was 9.96 ng/mL.

According to George Floyd’s toxicology report, his blood contained 11.0 ng/mL Fentanyl, PLUS 5.6 ng/mL norfentanyl, 19 ng/mL of methamphetamine, and three other drugs."


6 drug cocktail. Honestly, I'm kind of impressed.




Why don't you quote the autopsy report, word for word? Because it would show you are full of shit on the fentanyl.

Now on to your assertion that we are in a race war. I have two points.

1. Most of the protesters are white.

2. At my job there are at least 400 people there per shift. Depending on the day of the week, about 65-75% of them are black. We work together 10.5 hours per day. I have witnessed no indication at all of racial hostilities, let alone a race war.

The ideas that are in your head are just in YOUR head, and whatever wack job websites you get your information from.


--------------------
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26869651 - 08/08/20 08:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:


Why don't you quote the autopsy report, word for word?




Why don't you?

As it stands I've provided evidence for my position and you've shown nothing of substance.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26869772 - 08/08/20 09:33 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Both autopsies say he was murdered. Neither autopsy says anything about underlying conditions or drugs being anything important to the cause of death. Anyone would have died if they were choked like that.

The charging document which most people had confused for the autopsy was worded to give police the benefit of the doubt. Like when they bust a weed grow and say its 100 pounds because they weighed all the equipment too.

The bodycam footage does paint a different picture. I thought the cops should be arrested and charged. Now i think they should be stoned in public


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26869810 - 08/08/20 10:03 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Let's discuss the actual legality of what happened to Floyd.

The cop approached and detained Floyd for questioning. He is legally allowed to do this. The first thing he asked to see was Floyd's hands. This is a reasonable request. He had to ask Floyd like 5 times before he showed his hands, which is why he pulled the gun out.

This is from Minneapolis's government website relating to what falls under, "Use of Force" and qualifies for arrest:

5-300 Use of Force
5-301 PURPOSE (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (07/28/16)

A.    Sanctity of life and the protection of the public shall be the cornerstones of the MPD’s use of force policy.

B.    The purpose of this chapter is to provide all sworn MPD employees with clear and consistent policies and procedures regarding the use of force while engaged in the discharge of their official duties. (Note: MPD Training Unit Lesson Plans – Use of Force, are used as a reference throughout this chapter.)

5-301.01 POLICY (10/16/02) (08/17/07)

Based on the Fourth Amendment’s “reasonableness” standard, sworn MPD employees shall only use the amount of force that is objectively reasonable in light of the facts and circumstances known to that employee at the time force is used. The force used shall be consistent with current MPD training.

5-302 USE OF FORCE DEFINITIONS (10/16/02) (10/01/10) (Skipping a few on the list. Feel free to check the site out.)

...Active Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. A subject engages in active resistance when engaging in physical actions (or verbal behavior reflecting an intention) to make it more difficult for officers to achieve actual physical control. (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

...Passive Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. This is behavior initiated by a subject, when the subject does not comply with verbal or physical control efforts, yet the subject does not attempt to defeat an officer’s control efforts.


Floyd was legally detained for questioning, refused to show his hands after being asked multiple times, this resulted in escalation on the part of the police. The police also got the tip that Floyd was likely drunk or on drugs and they ran his license plates so they likely had his criminal history.

The only real question left is, was it unlawful for the police officer to ask Floyd to show his hands during his detainment? Detainment is legal and if you don't comply with officers when detained, they are legally able to exercise Use of Force on you to get you to comply.

As far as I can tell, you have the right to remain silent, but do you have the right to not show the officer your hands when asked while detained?

Legally, am I missing anything here?

The only part of the entire encounter that I find to be upsetting is the knee on the neck. I don't see how legally anything was done wrong, but I'm willing to amend my position if someone can prove otherwise, legally.

This is all secondary to me though, I already made my main point which still stands: None of this was about race.

EDIT: Youtube removed the video footage from "Trending" even though it has like 5 million views now. As usual if actual evidence doesn't support their narrative they are trying to create they hide the evidence.


Edited by Vahn421 (08/08/20 10:18 AM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26869837 - 08/08/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

"Police chiefs across Central Pa. said their officers are not instructed to use the knee-on-neck restraint that a Minneapolis cop used against a handcuffed man for several minutes until he died in a now-viral video that outraged the nation.

George Floyd, a 46-year-old black man, was held down Monday by the Minneapolis officer’s knee as Floyd repeatedly said he couldn't breathe. Bystanders begged the officer to stop but the officer continued for several minutes even after Floyd apparently went unconscious. Meanwhile three other officers stood by and did not intervene. All four were later fired by the police chief."


https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pennlive.com/news/2020/05/george-floyd-case-pa-police-chiefs-condemn-officers-knee-on-neck-method-seen-in-viral-video.html%3foutputType=amp


I feel like your argument is the same as questioning why an officer who shoots someone in the head would be getting charged with 2nd or 3rd degree murder. I even feel like 1st degree murder is a more suitable charge. But to clear up why shooting someone in the head is not a technique used by officers unless purely for self defense in which lethal force is clearly necessary is because it is not a useful technique to simply subdue a criminal as it will more then often kill or seriously injure the criminal being detained. Criminal being a word reserved for post trial as all subjects are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

So banning an officer from shooting a suspect in the back of the head with a pistol to detain him is clearly illegal use of force and can lead to a murder charge. We understand that? Also using a persons knee to hold a suspect down to prevent him from getting up and possibly severely hurting him by putting all your weight on one spot of the suspects chest where his breathing would be obviously constricted is unlawful police force and can lead to a murder charge if used as a detainment technique.

Also to be honest the police departments entire use of de escalation training was piss poor as fuck in this entire scenario to begin with.

So are we on the same page?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421] * 2
    #26869892 - 08/08/20 11:05 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Chavin was told by another officer he could not find a pulse. Chavin continued to kneel on his neck for another two minutes. Justify that.


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NotSheekle said
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Edited by koods (08/08/20 11:05 AM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods] * 1
    #26869900 - 08/08/20 11:17 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

They wanted to make sure he couldn't be resuscitated. That seems to be chavins justification


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: bodhisatta] * 1
    #26869921 - 08/08/20 11:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Dead men don’t sue for excessive force


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26870422 - 08/08/20 06:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Let's discuss the actual legality of what happened to Floyd.

The cop approached and detained Floyd for questioning. He is legally allowed to do this. The first thing he asked to see was Floyd's hands. This is a reasonable request. He had to ask Floyd like 5 times before he showed his hands, which is why he pulled the gun out.

This is from Minneapolis's government website relating to what falls under, "Use of Force" and qualifies for arrest:

5-300 Use of Force
5-301 PURPOSE (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (07/28/16)

A.    Sanctity of life and the protection of the public shall be the cornerstones of the MPD’s use of force policy.

B.    The purpose of this chapter is to provide all sworn MPD employees with clear and consistent policies and procedures regarding the use of force while engaged in the discharge of their official duties. (Note: MPD Training Unit Lesson Plans – Use of Force, are used as a reference throughout this chapter.)

5-301.01 POLICY (10/16/02) (08/17/07)

Based on the Fourth Amendment’s “reasonableness” standard, sworn MPD employees shall only use the amount of force that is objectively reasonable in light of the facts and circumstances known to that employee at the time force is used. The force used shall be consistent with current MPD training.

5-302 USE OF FORCE DEFINITIONS (10/16/02) (10/01/10) (Skipping a few on the list. Feel free to check the site out.)

...Active Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. A subject engages in active resistance when engaging in physical actions (or verbal behavior reflecting an intention) to make it more difficult for officers to achieve actual physical control. (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

...Passive Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. This is behavior initiated by a subject, when the subject does not comply with verbal or physical control efforts, yet the subject does not attempt to defeat an officer’s control efforts.


Floyd was legally detained for questioning, refused to show his hands after being asked multiple times, this resulted in escalation on the part of the police. The police also got the tip that Floyd was likely drunk or on drugs and they ran his license plates so they likely had his criminal history.

The only real question left is, was it unlawful for the police officer to ask Floyd to show his hands during his detainment? Detainment is legal and if you don't comply with officers when detained, they are legally able to exercise Use of Force on you to get you to comply.

As far as I can tell, you have the right to remain silent, but do you have the right to not show the officer your hands when asked while detained?

Legally, am I missing anything here?

The only part of the entire encounter that I find to be upsetting is the knee on the neck. I don't see how legally anything was done wrong, but I'm willing to amend my position if someone can prove otherwise, legally.

This is all secondary to me though, I already made my main point which still stands: None of this was about race.

EDIT: Youtube removed the video footage from "Trending" even though it has like 5 million views now. As usual if actual evidence doesn't support their narrative they are trying to create they hide the evidence.




Wrong, the police can't legally detain citizens for questioning, where do you think we live?  In North Korea. 

Also, citizens that haven't committed a crime don't legally have to show their hands, that is a request, not a lawful order unless it's an arrest.

Floyd's detainment wasn't legal, he had committed no crime and hadn't been accused of a crime. A few minutes before his death, one of the cops said he was under arrest for forgery. That was a made up charge to cover their asses.

So what are you missing here?  You're make huge assumptions about what is legal and what isn't. Yes, the police constantly violate rights, so you're just assuming it's legal. The cops fucked up every aspect of this case.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26870712 - 08/08/20 09:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

This is a common misconception I am surprised Enlil did not correct.

While it is true that a police officer cannot detain you without suspicion of a crime, the officer can detain you for suspicion of a crime without telling you what crime they suspect you of committing.

Of course your 1st and 2nd amendment rights protect you from having to answer questions without the officer suspecting you of committing a crime but the officer can suspect any crime just about and say to you "I am detaining you to ascertain that no crime is being committed" and you have to comply or you are subject to arrest for preventing an officer from doing his duty. Failure to allow an officer to arrest you can result in a charge or resisting arrest.

Under your 5th amendment right you can plead the 5th. In fact you have the right to remain silent you don't have to say shit at all you don't even have to quote your amendment rights. Why then if a cop can basically make up any crime he suspects you of committing and detain you are your amendment rights important? What is the point if you cannot stop a detainment by stating that the cop has not legally given you a reason to justify searching you or detaining you and has not stated the crime he or she suspects you of committing? Well everything is on camera now and all of this goes to court so it does matter quite a bite to assert your rights.

But no despite about a thousand youtube videos showing people refusing to let cops detain them for the officer not stating what crime they suspect you of committing under I believe your 1st amendment rights and while a smart cop will let you go if they have no real reason to detain you an officer does in fact not have to state what statute you are breaking to prove what crime they suspect you of committing. They can stop you. Ask if you consent to a search. You can refuse. They can search anyway even without your consent. You cannot do a damn thing about it. Except in court show you asserted your rights and that all the cops did not go by the book and it will matter.

If they find a dead body in your car it may be harder to get it thrown out in court and they will try to get you to take a plea bargain a million times to save the court time and money. But yes in the interest of the citizen making the cops do their job while you assert your rights and making them follow protocol gives you a much better chance in court.

Too bad George Floyd is not alive. His family however sueing the city is.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26872644 - 08/10/20 02:41 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Out of the 30-50 million interactions that the police had with the American public last year, 10 million people were arrested, and less than 0.01 percent were shot and killed by the police. Out of those 10 million people arrested, 47 of those shot and killed were unarmed, which equates to 0.00047 percent, 17 of which were black.

last year 49 people were stuck by lighting let that sink in. Blacks 4 times more likely to get stuck by lightning then get shot by a cop


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: 1uptoadstool] * 2
    #26872696 - 08/10/20 04:19 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

49 people were killed by lightening. How many were struck by lightening? How many were black? Vague numbers don't sink they float. I 'm thinking the number of blacks hit by lightening is going to be elusive.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: 1uptoadstool]
    #26872911 - 08/10/20 09:06 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
Out of the 30-50 million interactions that the police had with the American public last year, 10 million people were arrested, and less than 0.01 percent were shot and killed by the police. Out of those 10 million people arrested, 47 of those shot and killed were unarmed, which equates to 0.00047 percent, 17 of which were black.

last year 49 people were stuck by lighting let that sink in. Blacks 4 times more likely to get stuck by lightning then get shot by a cop




Lightning doesn’t work for the taxpayer

Who care if they were armed or not. Funny how the second ammendment doesn’t apply when it’s not convenient. “He has a gun” is not a legal justification for police murder in a country where you have a right to bear arms.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26872958 - 08/10/20 09:39 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
AND CRIMINALS WITH A VIOLENT HISTORY ON DRUGS ARE DANGEROUS.






and criminals with violent histories not on drugs are dangerous, and non-criminals with non-violent histories are dangerous, and so on


make sense?


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OfflineVahn421
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26873032 - 08/10/20 10:40 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Let's discuss the actual legality of what happened to Floyd.

The cop approached and detained Floyd for questioning. He is legally allowed to do this. The first thing he asked to see was Floyd's hands. This is a reasonable request. He had to ask Floyd like 5 times before he showed his hands, which is why he pulled the gun out.

This is from Minneapolis's government website relating to what falls under, "Use of Force" and qualifies for arrest:

5-300 Use of Force
5-301 PURPOSE (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (07/28/16)

A.    Sanctity of life and the protection of the public shall be the cornerstones of the MPD’s use of force policy.

B.    The purpose of this chapter is to provide all sworn MPD employees with clear and consistent policies and procedures regarding the use of force while engaged in the discharge of their official duties. (Note: MPD Training Unit Lesson Plans – Use of Force, are used as a reference throughout this chapter.)

5-301.01 POLICY (10/16/02) (08/17/07)

Based on the Fourth Amendment’s “reasonableness” standard, sworn MPD employees shall only use the amount of force that is objectively reasonable in light of the facts and circumstances known to that employee at the time force is used. The force used shall be consistent with current MPD training.

5-302 USE OF FORCE DEFINITIONS (10/16/02) (10/01/10) (Skipping a few on the list. Feel free to check the site out.)

...Active Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. A subject engages in active resistance when engaging in physical actions (or verbal behavior reflecting an intention) to make it more difficult for officers to achieve actual physical control. (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

...Passive Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. This is behavior initiated by a subject, when the subject does not comply with verbal or physical control efforts, yet the subject does not attempt to defeat an officer’s control efforts.


Floyd was legally detained for questioning, refused to show his hands after being asked multiple times, this resulted in escalation on the part of the police. The police also got the tip that Floyd was likely drunk or on drugs and they ran his license plates so they likely had his criminal history.

The only real question left is, was it unlawful for the police officer to ask Floyd to show his hands during his detainment? Detainment is legal and if you don't comply with officers when detained, they are legally able to exercise Use of Force on you to get you to comply.

As far as I can tell, you have the right to remain silent, but do you have the right to not show the officer your hands when asked while detained?

Legally, am I missing anything here?

The only part of the entire encounter that I find to be upsetting is the knee on the neck. I don't see how legally anything was done wrong, but I'm willing to amend my position if someone can prove otherwise, legally.

This is all secondary to me though, I already made my main point which still stands: None of this was about race.

EDIT: Youtube removed the video footage from "Trending" even though it has like 5 million views now. As usual if actual evidence doesn't support their narrative they are trying to create they hide the evidence.




Wrong, the police can't legally detain citizens for questioning, where do you think we live?  In North Korea. 

Also, citizens that haven't committed a crime don't legally have to show their hands, that is a request, not a lawful order unless it's an arrest.

Floyd's detainment wasn't legal, he had committed no crime and hadn't been accused of a crime. A few minutes before his death, one of the cops said he was under arrest for forgery. That was a made up charge to cover their asses.

So what are you missing here?  You're make huge assumptions about what is legal and what isn't. Yes, the police constantly violate rights, so you're just assuming it's legal. The cops fucked up every aspect of this case.




When is detainment legal? I've been detained for far less.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873079 - 08/10/20 11:05 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

If you knew your rights you would have been better off then


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873361 - 08/10/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Let's discuss the actual legality of what happened to Floyd.

The cop approached and detained Floyd for questioning. He is legally allowed to do this. The first thing he asked to see was Floyd's hands. This is a reasonable request. He had to ask Floyd like 5 times before he showed his hands, which is why he pulled the gun out.

This is from Minneapolis's government website relating to what falls under, "Use of Force" and qualifies for arrest:

5-300 Use of Force
5-301 PURPOSE (10/16/02) (08/17/07) (07/28/16)

A.    Sanctity of life and the protection of the public shall be the cornerstones of the MPD’s use of force policy.

B.    The purpose of this chapter is to provide all sworn MPD employees with clear and consistent policies and procedures regarding the use of force while engaged in the discharge of their official duties. (Note: MPD Training Unit Lesson Plans – Use of Force, are used as a reference throughout this chapter.)

5-301.01 POLICY (10/16/02) (08/17/07)

Based on the Fourth Amendment’s “reasonableness” standard, sworn MPD employees shall only use the amount of force that is objectively reasonable in light of the facts and circumstances known to that employee at the time force is used. The force used shall be consistent with current MPD training.

5-302 USE OF FORCE DEFINITIONS (10/16/02) (10/01/10) (Skipping a few on the list. Feel free to check the site out.)

...Active Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. A subject engages in active resistance when engaging in physical actions (or verbal behavior reflecting an intention) to make it more difficult for officers to achieve actual physical control. (10/01/10) (04/16/12)

...Passive Resistance: A response to police efforts to bring a person into custody or control for detainment or arrest. This is behavior initiated by a subject, when the subject does not comply with verbal or physical control efforts, yet the subject does not attempt to defeat an officer’s control efforts.


Floyd was legally detained for questioning, refused to show his hands after being asked multiple times, this resulted in escalation on the part of the police. The police also got the tip that Floyd was likely drunk or on drugs and they ran his license plates so they likely had his criminal history.

The only real question left is, was it unlawful for the police officer to ask Floyd to show his hands during his detainment? Detainment is legal and if you don't comply with officers when detained, they are legally able to exercise Use of Force on you to get you to comply.

As far as I can tell, you have the right to remain silent, but do you have the right to not show the officer your hands when asked while detained?

Legally, am I missing anything here?

The only part of the entire encounter that I find to be upsetting is the knee on the neck. I don't see how legally anything was done wrong, but I'm willing to amend my position if someone can prove otherwise, legally.

This is all secondary to me though, I already made my main point which still stands: None of this was about race.

EDIT: Youtube removed the video footage from "Trending" even though it has like 5 million views now. As usual if actual evidence doesn't support their narrative they are trying to create they hide the evidence.




Wrong, the police can't legally detain citizens for questioning, where do you think we live?  In North Korea. 

Also, citizens that haven't committed a crime don't legally have to show their hands, that is a request, not a lawful order unless it's an arrest.

Floyd's detainment wasn't legal, he had committed no crime and hadn't been accused of a crime. A few minutes before his death, one of the cops said he was under arrest for forgery. That was a made up charge to cover their asses.

So what are you missing here?  You're make huge assumptions about what is legal and what isn't. Yes, the police constantly violate rights, so you're just assuming it's legal. The cops fucked up every aspect of this case.




When is detainment legal? I've been detained for far less.




Reasonable suspicion that a crime has already occurred. Suspicion itself isn't a crime.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26873523 - 08/10/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Like using fake money and public intoxication?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873535 - 08/10/20 03:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah if Vahn had fake money and was drunk in public I'm sure he would've had someone kneel on his kneck for almost 9 minutes when Vahn is begging for help as he's slowly and torturously taking his last labored breaths. I'm sure that is a totally appropriate response to public intox and a fake 20$ bill


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Edited by Seriously_trippin (08/10/20 03:06 PM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #26873541 - 08/10/20 03:10 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

He doesn't have a prior record tho so he couldn't have gotten that treatment. The prior record was what sealed the deal. Or I think that's maybe what I got out of vahn's posts


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873546 - 08/10/20 03:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Like using fake money and public intoxication?




I don't believe that was ever established. Passing a fake bill isn't a crime unless you can prove it was intentional. The police usually just request you tell them where you got the bill in the first place, but you don't even have to talk to the cops.

As far as public intoxication is concerned, that was a secondary charge, correct?  He was already in cuffs when it SEEMED he was intoxicated. You can't make up that charged after the fact, it doesn't work that way.

The fact that a cop states 'forgery' is the arrest charge 15 minutes after the cuffing is very telling. The cops illegally detained him and then decided some arbitrary charge like they usually do.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26873555 - 08/10/20 03:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Public intoxication? I guess i forgot that having a cop kneel on your neck for
the better part of 10 minutes was part of a field sobriety test.

How can you conclude public intoxication before administering a test to confirm it?


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26873594 - 08/10/20 03:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

natedawgnow said:
Public intoxication? I guess i forgot that having a cop kneel on your neck for
the better part of 10 minutes was part of a field sobriety test.

How can you conclude public intoxication before administering a test to confirm it?




You can't at all, that's why it's ridiculous to even mention that potential aspect of the case.

For all they knew, he could be mentally disabled, on prescription medication or just extremely nervous in the presence of cops.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26873635 - 08/10/20 04:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Exactly


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26873655 - 08/10/20 04:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Like using fake money and public intoxication?




I don't believe that was ever established. Passing a fake bill isn't a crime unless you can prove it was intentional. The police usually just request you tell them where you got the bill in the first place, but you don't even have to talk to the cops.

As far as public intoxication is concerned, that was a secondary charge, correct?  He was already in cuffs when it SEEMED he was intoxicated. You can't make up that charged after the fact, it doesn't work that way.

The fact that a cop states 'forgery' is the arrest charge 15 minutes after the cuffing is very telling. The cops illegally detained him and then decided some arbitrary charge like they usually do.




In the 911 call, the clerk stated to the dispatcher that Floyd was both drunk and acting very strange and refused to give the cigarettes back after they confronted him about the fake money. The officers had certainly been tipped off on both accounts. They also ran the license plate of the vehicle, may have matched it with Floyd, and seen his past criminal history.

So you're a cop and you're told a former violent offender is on drugs and acting strange in public and you've been asked to check on him because he just bought some smokes with fake money. I think that's reasonable grounds for detainment? (I believe he would not have been arrested if he had cooperated, but people can argue that. And even if he was arrested, he would have lived to see another day. I know a few people that have been unlawfully arrested and then they go to court and it just gets thrown out.)

The officer didn't pull out his gun until he asked Floyd for the 4th time. (You can see his hand is gun-free in the reflection of the window.)

I am still struggling to see at what point up until the knee on the neck the officers did something wrong.


Edited by Vahn421 (08/10/20 04:29 PM)


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Vahn421]
    #26873697 - 08/10/20 04:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

seen his past criminal history.



What does his criminal history have to do with anything?

I’m not even sure cops can do that. But it sure says a lot about you that they think they should be allowed.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26873699 - 08/10/20 04:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The cops have taken people into custody with prior histories like having just done a mass shooting. :shrug:


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: bodhisatta]
    #26873702 - 08/10/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Cops can arrest people for prior crimes? That’s not constitutional.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26873704 - 08/10/20 04:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I was just pointing out that despite people having just done a mass murder the cops didn't kill them back.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26873707 - 08/10/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I think what he means is mass shooters with prior histories werent even
killed upon police arrival. They get taken to jail unless they dieds themselves
or initiate a shootout yeehaw


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26873709 - 08/10/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Darn. Too late


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: natedawgnow]
    #26873712 - 08/10/20 05:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Oh yeah they get taken to Burger King


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26873779 - 08/10/20 05:54 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Like using fake money and public intoxication?




I don't believe that was ever established. Passing a fake bill isn't a crime unless you can prove it was intentional. The police usually just request you tell them where you got the bill in the first place, but you don't even have to talk to the cops.

As far as public intoxication is concerned, that was a secondary charge, correct?  He was already in cuffs when it SEEMED he was intoxicated. You can't make up that charged after the fact, it doesn't work that way.

The fact that a cop states 'forgery' is the arrest charge 15 minutes after the cuffing is very telling. The cops illegally detained him and then decided some arbitrary charge like they usually do.




In the 911 call, the clerk stated to the dispatcher that Floyd was both drunk and acting very strange and refused to give the cigarettes back after they confronted him about the fake money. The officers had certainly been tipped off on both accounts. They also ran the license plate of the vehicle, may have matched it with Floyd, and seen his past criminal history.

So you're a cop and you're told a former violent offender is on drugs and acting strange in public and you've been asked to check on him because he just bought some smokes with fake money. I think that's reasonable grounds for detainment? (I believe he would not have been arrested if he had cooperated, but people can argue that. And even if he was arrested, he would have lived to see another day. I know a few people that have been unlawfully arrested and then they go to court and it just gets thrown out.)

The officer didn't pull out his gun until he asked Floyd for the 4th time. (You can see his hand is gun-free in the reflection of the window.)

I am still struggling to see at what point up until the knee on the neck the officers did something wrong.




People that call the police and give them some version of the events does NOT equate to the truthfulness of those events. I can call the cops on anybody and make up a story, that doesn't mean that person should be detained for a crime. The police need to investigate the scene and then conclude a crime took place before they detain someone, they did NOT do that.

I will admit, it's difficult to follow the law and not violate citizens rights, and still arrest people for crimes. But guess what?  That's too fucking bad.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods]
    #26873877 - 08/10/20 06:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

seen his past criminal history.



What does his criminal history have to do with anything?

I’m not even sure cops can do that. But it sure says a lot about you that they think they should be allowed.



What Vince vahn doesn't realize is that they didn't know who floyd was until he identified himself when he was cuffed sitting agianst a wall


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: MagicMush123] * 1
    #26874062 - 08/10/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

This entire thread has boiled down to "he had it coming."

It's ridiculous.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: koods] * 1
    #26874140 - 08/10/20 09:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

1uptoadstool said:
Out of the 30-50 million interactions that the police had with the American public last year, 10 million people were arrested, and less than 0.01 percent were shot and killed by the police. Out of those 10 million people arrested, 47 of those shot and killed were unarmed, which equates to 0.00047 percent, 17 of which were black.

last year 49 people were stuck by lighting let that sink in. Blacks 4 times more likely to get stuck by lightning then get shot by a cop




Lightning doesn’t work for the taxpayer

Who care if they were armed or not. Funny how the second ammendment doesn’t apply when it’s not convenient. “He has a gun” is not a legal justification for police murder in a country where you have a right to bear arms.




Only non-felons can carry a gun legally and your taught in ccw class that if and officer approaches you you show your hands, state that you have your ccw on you and ask the officer how they want to procede. not getting shot in the head is simple if you don't reach for your gun.


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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: 1uptoadstool] * 1
    #26874272 - 08/10/20 11:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)



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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26874277 - 08/10/20 11:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)



these ones are badass




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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26874282 - 08/10/20 11:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

air rifles too most states i think



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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26874417 - 08/11/20 04:11 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Like using fake money and public intoxication?




I don't believe that was ever established. Passing a fake bill isn't a crime unless you can prove it was intentional. The police usually just request you tell them where you got the bill in the first place, but you don't even have to talk to the cops.

As far as public intoxication is concerned, that was a secondary charge, correct?  He was already in cuffs when it SEEMED he was intoxicated. You can't make up that charged after the fact, it doesn't work that way.

The fact that a cop states 'forgery' is the arrest charge 15 minutes after the cuffing is very telling. The cops illegally detained him and then decided some arbitrary charge like they usually do.



Not established? They caught him shoving the counterfeit bills under his seat! If he hadn't done that then there'd be some doubt if as to whether he knew it was fake.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Kizzle]
    #26874451 - 08/11/20 05:16 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

A lot of felons carry guns illegally because they could give a fuck. And just try to avoid being searched


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Offlineqman
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: Kizzle]
    #26874766 - 08/11/20 10:12 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kizzle said:
Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Vahn421 said:
Like using fake money and public intoxication?




I don't believe that was ever established. Passing a fake bill isn't a crime unless you can prove it was intentional. The police usually just request you tell them where you got the bill in the first place, but you don't even have to talk to the cops.

As far as public intoxication is concerned, that was a secondary charge, correct?  He was already in cuffs when it SEEMED he was intoxicated. You can't make up that charged after the fact, it doesn't work that way.

The fact that a cop states 'forgery' is the arrest charge 15 minutes after the cuffing is very telling. The cops illegally detained him and then decided some arbitrary charge like they usually do.



Not established? They caught him shoving the counterfeit bills under his seat! If he hadn't done that then there'd be some doubt if as to whether he knew it was fake.




Wrong, the original $20 bill hasn't even been established if it was fake.  It also hasn't been established if his other bills were fake. It also hasn't been established if Floyd knew they were fake.


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Offlinechristopera
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest paints a very different picture. [Re: qman]
    #26874772 - 08/11/20 10:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

The detectives should do a thorough interview of the suspect to see if they can find any leads on the proposed fake currency.

Oh, shit. They murdered that guy.

Well that's a wrap folks, nothing to see here.


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest shows what its like to live in Americ [Re: christopera]
    #26874860 - 08/11/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

it happens every day. he had a knife. we thought he had a gun. he looked like a gangster


32 bullets with his hands on the wheel

they put someone else's picture over his thing here he is


im gonna fix it real quick


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Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy.
1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me...

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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest shows what its like to live in Americ [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26874889 - 08/11/20 11:29 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------


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Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy.
1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me...

Ban Lotto Wins: IIIII


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InvisibleMadMuncher
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest shows what its like to live in Americ [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26876343 - 08/12/20 06:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

white privilege


fuck these stupid pigs


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Spicemaster said: The stories. The words. The descriptions. Keep your list handy.
1234Go said: I bet you guys PM about me...

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OfflineKizzle
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Re: Full leaked bodycam footage of George Floyd's arrest shows what its like to live in Americ [Re: MadMuncher]
    #26877621 - 08/12/20 10:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure they even could legitimately arrest him for forgery. In Minnesota it's only a misdemeanor if it's under $1000 and they can't arrest you for a misdemeanor unless it occurs in the presence of a police officer. Although there are some exceptions to that as far I know this isn't one of them. Am I wrong? I haven't heard anyone mention it.


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