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HamHead
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Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research
#26862993 - 08/04/20 04:37 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2020/07/30/you-must-not-do-your-own-research-when-it-comes-to-science/
morrowasted, do you write for Forbes in your spare time?
"“Research both sides and make up your own mind.” It’s simple, straightforward, common sense advice. And when it comes to issues like vaccinations, climate change, and the novel coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, it can be dangerous, destructive, and even deadly. The techniques that most of us use to navigate most of our decisions in life — gathering information, evaluating it based on what we know, and choosing a course of action — can lead to spectacular failures when it comes to a scientific matter.
The reason is simple: most of us, even those of us who are scientists ourselves, lack the relevant scientific expertise needed to adequately evaluate that research on our own.
Let’s start with a simple, low-stakes example: fluoridated drinking water."
Don't research fluoride. It reduces IQ.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Jokeshopbeard
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 5
#26863000 - 08/04/20 04:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I really wonder if you're aware of how terribly, utterly, awfully boring you're being right now?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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HamHead
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
#26863053 - 08/04/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I really wonder if you're aware of how terribly, utterly, awfully boring you're being right now?
Oh jsb, I see you're rustling your jimmie again.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jvchamary/2020/07/31/coronavirus-surface-disinfectants/
"Generally, higher temperatures or humidity would enable coronaviruses to last longer."
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/av/2011/734690/
"Published 01 Oct 2011 Abstract The main route of transmission of SARS CoV infection is presumed to be respiratory droplets. However the virus is also detectable in other body fluids and excreta. The stability of the virus at different temperatures and relative humidity on smooth surfaces were studied. The dried virus on smooth surfaces retained its viability for over 5 days at temperatures of 22–25°C and relative humidity of 40–50%, that is, typical air-conditioned environments. However, virus viability was rapidly lost (>3 log10) at higher temperatures and higher relative humidity (e.g., 38°C, and relative humidity of >95%). The better stability of SARS coronavirus at low temperature and low humidity environment may facilitate its transmission in community in subtropical area (such as Hong Kong) during the spring and in air-conditioned environments. It may also explain why some Asian countries in tropical area (such as Malaysia, Indonesia or Thailand) with high temperature and high relative humidity environment did not have major community outbreaks of SARS."

Forbes, I think you might want to actually research this stuff.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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christopera
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 3
#26863085 - 08/04/20 05:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Grad school for me was an exercise in getting my ass handed to me on every paper I wrote right through my Master’s thesis. This is why I didn’t go for my PHD. I was tired of it. Getting my ass handed to me was however the point of attending, so that I could grow and evolve intellectually.
It gave me a pretty good feel for knocking out research. The problem with modern society’s inability to research (which is obviously very real) is that our science has progressed far beyond “common sense” and well into the abstract. So researching science even if written about in a news paper is likely to provide a wide variety of false statements or simplifications. And that means the picture is partial at best for those who aren’t experts, so people are forced to live on 8th grade science and language.
We however need to rely on experts more than ever as a result, there are very few people capable of parsing information on a wide enough breadth to understand the modern world. That’s why your HCQ thread is a such a piece of junk
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Northerner
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: christopera] 4
#26863209 - 08/04/20 06:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Something that isn't taught in schools from a young age, but should be, is critical thinking. It's increasingly less of a common skill as the years go by.
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The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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HamHead
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: christopera]
#26863226 - 08/04/20 06:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: We however need to rely on experts more than ever as a result, there are very few people capable of parsing information on a wide enough breadth to understand the modern world. That’s why your HCQ thread is a such a piece of junk
https://www.thenationalsentinel.com/2020/07/30/revealed-yale-epidemiologist-says-fauci-running-misinformation-campaign-against-hydroxychloroquine-in-treatment-of-covid-19/
So, this Yale epidemiologist is not an expert?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/huge-development-51-global-studies-find-hcq-effective-treating-covid-19-16-find-hcq-not-effective-10-late-treatment-studies/
"There are over 70 global studies listed on the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine in treating the coronavirus.
51 of the global studies showed positive results. 16 of the global studies showed negative results — but 10 of those studies were late stage cases of coronavirus."
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 3
#26863237 - 08/04/20 06:48 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm smart enough to realize how stupid I am.
People are not taught how to research and generally by the time they're well into adulthood they barely remember 8th grade science.
I remember learning about the basics of electricity, AC DC, that kinda thing, but fuck if I remember it.
Research requires being honest with yourself and understanding that 90% of what you read wants to manipulate your conclusions. People are too prone to cognitive bias.
And that includes scientists. They're paid to be that way. The consumers are that way. Publishers sell that way.
--------------------
Free time is the only time
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christopera
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 1
#26863241 - 08/04/20 06:50 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
christopera said: We however need to rely on experts more than ever as a result, there are very few people capable of parsing information on a wide enough breadth to understand the modern world. That’s why your HCQ thread is a such a piece of junk
https://www.thenationalsentinel.com/2020/07/30/revealed-yale-epidemiologist-says-fauci-running-misinformation-campaign-against-hydroxychloroquine-in-treatment-of-covid-19/
So, this Yale epidemiologist is not an expert?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/huge-development-51-global-studies-find-hcq-effective-treating-covid-19-16-find-hcq-not-effective-10-late-treatment-studies/
"There are over 70 global studies listed on the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine in treating the coronavirus.
51 of the global studies showed positive results. 16 of the global studies showed negative results — but 10 of those studies were late stage cases of coronavirus."
Take it over to your HCQ thread so I can continue to ignore it.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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feevers


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Loc:
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 3
#26863248 - 08/04/20 06:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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.Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
christopera said: We however need to rely on experts more than ever as a result, there are very few people capable of parsing information on a wide enough breadth to understand the modern world. That’s why your HCQ thread is a such a piece of junk
https://www.thenationalsentinel.com/2020/07/30/revealed-yale-epidemiologist-says-fauci-running-misinformation-campaign-against-hydroxychloroquine-in-treatment-of-covid-19/
So, this Yale epidemiologist is not an expert?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/huge-development-51-global-studies-find-hcq-effective-treating-covid-19-16-find-hcq-not-effective-10-late-treatment-studies/
"There are over 70 global studies listed on the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine in treating the coronavirus.
51 of the global studies showed positive results. 16 of the global studies showed negative results — but 10 of those studies were late stage cases of coronavirus."
The national sentinel is a trump fan club and a google search of your other source shows this:
"The Gateway Pundit is an American far-right news and opinion website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods and spreading hoaxes."
I think I'm starting to understand your thinking, you appear to go out of your way to gain knowledge from the dumbest possible sources
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: feevers]
#26863499 - 08/04/20 09:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said: .Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
christopera said: We however need to rely on experts more than ever as a result, there are very few people capable of parsing information on a wide enough breadth to understand the modern world. That’s why your HCQ thread is a such a piece of junk
https://www.thenationalsentinel.com/2020/07/30/revealed-yale-epidemiologist-says-fauci-running-misinformation-campaign-against-hydroxychloroquine-in-treatment-of-covid-19/
So, this Yale epidemiologist is not an expert?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/07/huge-development-51-global-studies-find-hcq-effective-treating-covid-19-16-find-hcq-not-effective-10-late-treatment-studies/
"There are over 70 global studies listed on the effectiveness of Hydroxychloroquine in treating the coronavirus.
51 of the global studies showed positive results. 16 of the global studies showed negative results — but 10 of those studies were late stage cases of coronavirus."
The national sentinel is a trump fan club and a google search of your other source shows this:
"The Gateway Pundit is an American far-right news and opinion website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods and spreading hoaxes."
I think I'm starting to understand your thinking, you appear to go out of your way to gain knowledge from the dumbest possible sources
So, are you saying you support far left ideology before far right?
I'm not so sure about the destruction of some democratic cities during some of the so called peaceful protest, which evolve into riots that I have seen buildings burned, businesses looted, humans beaten on both sides and government courthouses and government buildings being targeted with marches.
But, you can't open your restaurant to full capacity, because there's a pandemic with a death rate that's comparable with influenza.
And Fauci has said this himself. Fauci has compared Covid19 to influenza.
Did we all forget that?
Did we all forget that we were told, the general american public shouldn't be walking around wearing mask.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
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Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead]
#26863655 - 08/04/20 11:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think liberalism just became an official religion.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 2
#26863678 - 08/05/20 12:26 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said: Don't research fluoride. It reduces IQ.
If you really drew this conclusion from reading that article, then I think you completely missed the point, Ham.
The article wasn't telling you to not research fluoride. It was just telling you that, as someone who isn't an expert in the field, you should be skeptical not only of the sources you read from, but also skeptical of your own critical reasoning faculties. This applies even if you are a smart person with good critical reasoning skills, or even if you are a scientist yourself with expertise in some other field.
From the article:
Quote:
Even those of us with excellent critical thinking skills and lots of experience trying to dig up the truth behind a variety of claims are lacking one important asset: the scientific expertise necessary to understand any finds or claims in the context of the full state of knowledge of your field.
This new wave of anti-intellectualism that is sweeping the nation right now is starting to rub me the wrong way. It's like we can't believe the words of experts anymore because we place a higher value on "seeing both sides" than we do on someone else's years and years of dedicated study in a specialized field.
It's good to be skeptical, and it's good to doubt things - that's a sign of a healthy, critical mind. However, doubt can only take you so far before it starts to take away more than it gives back to you. Here's a quote from the developers of one of my favorite video games:
Quote:
They say "doubt everything," but I disagree. Doubt is useful in small amounts, but too much of it leads to apathy and confusion. No, don't doubt everything. QUESTION everything. That's the real trick. Doubt is just a lack of certainty. If you doubt everything, you'll doubt evolution, science, faith, morality, even reality itself - and you'll end up with nothing, because doubt doesn't give anything back. But questions have answers, you see. If you question everything, you'll find that a lot of what we believe is untrue… but you might also discover that some things ARE true. You might discover what your own beliefs are. And then you'll question them again, and again, eliminating flaws, discovering lies, until you get as close to the truth as you can.
Questioning is a lifelong process. That's precisely what makes it so unlike doubt. Questioning engages with reality, interrogating all it sees. Questioning leads to a constant assault on the intellectual status quo, where doubt is far more likely to lead to resigned acceptance. After all, when the possibility of truth is doubtful (excuse the pun), why not simply play along with the most convenient lie?
Questioning is progress, but doubt is stagnation.
I think you're placing too much doubt in expert epidemiologists when it comes to COVID-19, and I think that you would find that if you investigate their positions and hear them out rather than simply doubting and dismissing them outright, you might find that you are closer to the truth. In the spirit of the quote I mentioned above, I think you are playing along with the most convenient lie, which is that this is all just some big political hoax to force everyone into getting vaccinated or something like that. I think that's incredibly unlikely, and I think you'd see that if you weren't so quick to dismiss the opinions of scientific experts. I think it's far more likely that these expert epidemiologists, who are criticizing HQC, recommending masks, and expressing other opinions that you disagree with, are speaking from a well-researched position that you just aren't standing in. You are not an expert epidemiologist (unless you're hiding credentials from us, but I won't ask you to dox yourself), and I think you're placing so much value in your own ability to think critically about what you read that you're overlooking the fact that some people are vastly more knowledgeable in the field of epidemiology than you are.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Nonagon Infinity] 2
#26863789 - 08/05/20 04:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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This article is spot on.
The number of experts in clinical trial design and data interpretation has skyrocketed since COVID. Apparently COVID makes you smarter.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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LeningradCowboy
Yes, my name is you?



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: badchad]
#26863792 - 08/05/20 04:32 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Forbes all so said this virus is lab made. Source former head of mi6.
-------------------- From tundra with love!
FREE HAMHEAD 2020!
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Nonagon Infinity] 1
#26863797 - 08/05/20 04:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
HamHead said: Don't research fluoride. It reduces IQ.
If you really drew this conclusion from reading that article, then I think you completely missed the point, Ham.
The article wasn't telling you to not research fluoride. It was just telling you that, as someone who isn't an expert in the field, you should be skeptical not only of the sources you read from, but also skeptical of your own critical reasoning faculties. This applies even if you are a smart person with good critical reasoning skills, or even if you are a scientist yourself with expertise in some other field.
From the article:
Quote:
Even those of us with excellent critical thinking skills and lots of experience trying to dig up the truth behind a variety of claims are lacking one important asset: the scientific expertise necessary to understand any finds or claims in the context of the full state of knowledge of your field.
This new wave of anti-intellectualism that is sweeping the nation right now is starting to rub me the wrong way. It's like we can't believe the words of experts anymore because we place a higher value on "seeing both sides" than we do on someone else's years and years of dedicated study in a specialized field.
It's good to be skeptical, and it's good to doubt things - that's a sign of a healthy, critical mind. However, doubt can only take you so far before it starts to take away more than it gives back to you. Here's a quote from the developers of one of my favorite video games:
Quote:
They say "doubt everything," but I disagree. Doubt is useful in small amounts, but too much of it leads to apathy and confusion. No, don't doubt everything. QUESTION everything. That's the real trick. Doubt is just a lack of certainty. If you doubt everything, you'll doubt evolution, science, faith, morality, even reality itself - and you'll end up with nothing, because doubt doesn't give anything back. But questions have answers, you see. If you question everything, you'll find that a lot of what we believe is untrue… but you might also discover that some things ARE true. You might discover what your own beliefs are. And then you'll question them again, and again, eliminating flaws, discovering lies, until you get as close to the truth as you can.
Questioning is a lifelong process. That's precisely what makes it so unlike doubt. Questioning engages with reality, interrogating all it sees. Questioning leads to a constant assault on the intellectual status quo, where doubt is far more likely to lead to resigned acceptance. After all, when the possibility of truth is doubtful (excuse the pun), why not simply play along with the most convenient lie?
Questioning is progress, but doubt is stagnation.
I think you're placing too much doubt in expert epidemiologists when it comes to COVID-19, and I think that you would find that if you investigate their positions and hear them out rather than simply doubting and dismissing them outright, you might find that you are closer to the truth. In the spirit of the quote I mentioned above, I think you are playing along with the most convenient lie, which is that this is all just some big political hoax to force everyone into getting vaccinated or something like that. I think that's incredibly unlikely, and I think you'd see that if you weren't so quick to dismiss the opinions of scientific experts. I think it's far more likely that these expert epidemiologists, who are criticizing HQC, recommending masks, and expressing other opinions that you disagree with, are speaking from a well-researched position that you just aren't standing in. You are not an expert epidemiologist (unless you're hiding credentials from us, but I won't ask you to dox yourself), and I think you're placing so much value in your own ability to think critically about what you read that you're overlooking the fact that some people are vastly more knowledgeable in the field of epidemiology than you are.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/
Impact of fluoride on neurological development in children July 25, 2012 — For years health experts have been unable to agree on whether fluoride in the drinking water may be toxic to the developing human brain. Extremely high levels of fluoride are known to cause neurotoxicity in adults, and negative impacts on memory and learning have been reported in rodent studies, but little is known about the substance’s impact on children’s neurodevelopment. In a meta-analysis, researchers from Harvard School of Public Health (HSPH) and China Medical University in Shenyang for the first time combined 27 studies and found strong indications that fluoride may adversely affect cognitive development in children. Based on the findings, the authors say that this risk should not be ignored, and that more research on fluoride’s impact on the developing brain is warranted."
Nah, don't listen to Harvard.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5285601/
"Conclusion: It is concluded that IQ level was negatively correlated with fluoride level in drinking water. Factors that might affect children's IQ need to be considered, and it is necessary to devise solutions for preventing the harmful effects of excessive intake of fluoride ion to the body."
Now, I don't know abouty you, but I don't have any problem reading "factors that might affect children's IQ need to be considered."
I'll do another.
https://www.medpagetoday.com/obgyn/pregnancy/81672
Higher fluoride intake during pregnancy was associated with lower IQ scores in boys, a Canadian study found.
"Among 512 mother-child pairs, each 1-mg/L increase in maternal urinary fluoride concentration was associated with a decrease of 4.49 (95% CI -8.4 to -0.6) Full Scale IQ points for boys at 3 to 4 years after adjusting for demographic and quality-of-home variables, reported Christine Till, PhD, of York University in Toronto, and colleagues."
I can go on.
But what you're telling me is I shouldn't listen to these articles and listen to those who say a neurotoxin is safe to drink on a daily basis, multiple times per day.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
Edited by HamHead (08/05/20 04:50 AM)
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 1
#26863811 - 08/05/20 05:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I am definitely not an anti-vaxxer, but consider this.
Autism rates were climbing and linked by a "now disproven" study to vaccines. So, in 2004, they stopped putting the preservative in vaccines that had been suspected of contributing to the climbing rates. The preservative was replaced with a different one.
Now, autism rates are climbing even faster than before. Many "experts" have said this is proof that the original preservative was not contributing to autism rates.
No one seems to consider, due in large part to confirmation bias, that what the data really supports is "the new preservative is equal in toxicity, or even more toxic, than the previous previous one."
Again, these are the experts making this massive failure in logic. This, and not politics or anything else, is why I don't trust "experts" at all. Too many of them have an agenda, usually THEIR politics is at play, and the HCQ study is another perfect example.
There was a REASON the one lab would not turn over their data. HIPPA? Give me a damn break. They're the only lab in the world who can't figure out how to blind their data then. Should I trust a lab that can't perform the same basic tasks all the others did, or at least foresee their inability to participate before being part of a study?
I am certainly not more of a virologist than a real virologist, or more of a doctor than a doctor - but I am certainly capable of deciding if one and one are two, which is all it really takes to use critical thinking skills. Too many people today read an article in a popular culture magazine, or hear on the news, some scientist - and they immediately associate this individual's viewpoint with "the entirety of modern scientific thought in the field" without ever considering where the funding for a study came from. Without considering what boards the researcher sits on or what stocks he or she may own. However these same people often consider all these things in their arguments against, say, Donald Trump.
Any scientist who says "You need to take this, but I can't explain why" doesn't understand it well enough to be making my decisions for me. If you can't explain it, you don't understand it. That wasn't my idea, that was Stephen Hawking who said that.
Remember lefties, John Lewis's funeral cannot give you covid, but a Trump rally most certainly killed Herman Cain. Dr. Fauci was unwilling to even answer the question "should the Government ban the [BLM] protests" but has warned that Trump rallies will give you Covid.
I don't need to match credentials against experts to be able to detect their bias and reject, or demand more information to support, their positions.
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LeningradCowboy
Yes, my name is you?



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Srirachi]
#26863818 - 08/05/20 05:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fluoride in toothpastes is not helping on that. I see more dreams after changing out of that.
-------------------- From tundra with love!
FREE HAMHEAD 2020!
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 1
#26863826 - 08/05/20 05:50 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
But what you're telling me is I shouldn't listen to these articles and listen to those who say a neurotoxin is safe to drink on a daily basis, multiple times per day.

No. What the Forbes article is saying is that these types of research articles are nuanced. Just looking at the first article: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/
What were the inclusion/exclusion criteria for the meta analysis? More importantly, what was the dose of flouride across the studies? What were the primary outcome measures? What are the actual consequences of a 7 point IQ drop? How does these results differ from metaanalyses of industrialized countries?
These are very basic questions that need to be considered before thinking "OMG THIS PERSON IS AN EXPERT IT MUST BE TRUE."
It's an emerging problem with access to information. Uneducated individuals don't know what they don't know.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: badchad] 1
#26863829 - 08/05/20 05:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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According to the Forbes article, you're not smart enough to ask that.
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theRealrollforever
I DID-DENT



Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 12,736
Loc: Bada-Bing!
Last seen: 2 days, 5 hours
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Srirachi]
#26863833 - 08/05/20 06:01 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well guys idk about you, but I’m gonna need an expert to tell me wtf this article was about. What is being smart? Am I an expert? I need an expert to tell me. Then I can either confidently think like an expert or if I’m not an expert it’s probably better to just stop thinking.
--------------------
sunshine said: The order has to be secret and no one is sure.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: theRealrollforever]
#26863841 - 08/05/20 06:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theRealrollforever said: Well guys idk about you, but I’m gonna need an expert to tell me wtf this article was about. What is being smart? Am I an expert? I need an expert to tell me. Then I can either confidently think like an expert or if I’m not an expert it’s probably better to just stop thinking.
You're going to have to wait until it's been peer reviewed.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Srirachi]
#26863842 - 08/05/20 06:10 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Srirachi said: According to the Forbes article, you're not smart enough to ask that.
ha, I'd probably agree. The types of studies cited appear to be observational, epidemiological studies. I'm not well-versed in these, nor am I familiar with IQ effects of flouride generally. But I have conducted meta-analyses, selected outcome measures for clinical trials, and done the basics of study designs.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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the strander
Explorer



Registered: 06/16/20
Posts: 138
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: badchad] 1
#26863857 - 08/05/20 06:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
HamHead said:
But what you're telling me is I shouldn't listen to these articles and listen to those who say a neurotoxin is safe to drink on a daily basis, multiple times per day.

No. What the Forbes article is saying is that these types of research articles are nuanced. Just looking at the first article: https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/
What were the inclusion/exclusion criteria for the meta analysis? More importantly, what was the dose of flouride across the studies? What were the primary outcome measures? What are the actual consequences of a 7 point IQ drop? How does these results differ from metaanalyses of industrialized countries?
These are very basic questions that need to be considered before thinking "OMG THIS PERSON IS AN EXPERT IT MUST BE TRUE."
It's an emerging problem with access to information. Uneducated individuals don't know what they don't know.
Exactly. It's dangerous to read the summary of a study, even if the summary is compiled by a trustworthy educational institution or media outlet, because it might have oversimplified.
The summary in the Harvard link says fluoride "may" be linked to lower IQ.
But based on just the summary, they simply measured IQs of 8k school kids and used whether they lived in an area with high fluoride in natural groundwater to try to infer a relationship between fluoride and IQ.
This is inherently flawed, if the summary is complete and accurate in terms of what the study did. Correlation does not mean causation. This is a very common trap to fall into, and I think why we are constantly being told one thing is "bad" only to be told it's "good" 3 months later.
It could be that in addition to more fluoride in groundwater in those areas, there is also another environmental factor. Another actual bad mineral, like lead, pollution from factories, air pollution. It could also be that those areas happen to have people in different social classes with less common access to proper nutrition and education, which I think are more likely than fluoride to have an impact in brain development. The summary of the article does not say what factors they controlled for, which is key to knowing if causation truly exists.
I grew up in an area with well water and high natural fluoride levels. They told my mom to boil water for things like pasta, but mostly it was fine. The result is my IQ is great, and my dental enamel is also great, from all that fluoride.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 4
#26863870 - 08/05/20 06:45 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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HamHead said: So, are you saying you support far left ideology before far right?
I'm not so sure about the destruction of some democratic cities during some of the so called peaceful protest, which evolve into riots that I have seen buildings burned, businesses looted, humans beaten on both sides and government courthouses and government buildings being targeted with marches.
But, you can't open your restaurant to full capacity, because there's a pandemic with a death rate that's comparable with influenza.
And Fauci has said this himself. Fauci has compared Covid19 to influenza.
Did we all forget that?
Did we all forget that we were told, the general american public shouldn't be walking around wearing mask.
No one is making this political except for you.
Propaganda sources are propaganda sources, I'd say the same thing if you were quoting the young turks or david pakman or whoever. The places you frequent for your 'news' say a lot about how based in reality you are, which for you appears to be not very. You're the only person that I have ever witnessed become less infromed the more you research something. It's actually kind of fascinating.
I have no idea why myself or anyone else still wastes their time responding to you, nearly every argument you make has already been debunked and thoroughly explained to you by multiple posters on here dozens of times. You ignore long thoughtful responses from people on here who actually have backgrounds and/or currently work in healthcare, research, chemistry/biology etc., and just quote your same misinfo and conspiracy talking points over and over, while completely misunderstanding the research you use as your 'proof'.
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: feevers]
#26863894 - 08/05/20 07:09 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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feevers said: I have no idea why myself or anyone else still wastes their time responding to you, nearly every argument you make has already been debunked and thoroughly explained to you by multiple posters on here dozens of times. You ignore long thoughtful responses from people on here who actually have backgrounds and/or currently work in healthcare, research, chemistry/biology etc., and just quote your same misinfo and conspiracy talking points over and over, while completely misunderstanding the research you use as your 'proof'.
Winning post.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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larry.fisherman
shoulda died already


Registered: 11/03/12
Posts: 36,294
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Jokeshopbeard] 5
#26863908 - 08/05/20 07:19 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It is my belief that OP has spent some time in the absence of placing his penis directly in to a vagina
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: larry.fisherman] 1
#26864299 - 08/05/20 10:56 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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feevers said: No one is making this political except for you..
Sorry. What?
"The national sentinel is a trump fan club"
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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Asante
Mage


Registered: 02/06/02
Posts: 86,795
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead]
#26864302 - 08/05/20 10:58 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Forbes doesn't know me.
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 2
#26864330 - 08/05/20 11:14 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said: But what you're telling me is I shouldn't listen to these articles and listen to those who say a neurotoxin is safe to drink on a daily basis, multiple times per day.
That is absolutely not what I'm saying. What you're asking here is a loaded question, and it's a dirty, childish argumentation tactic. I'm surprised that an alleged critical thinker like you would resort to such strategies. I do not agree with the proposition that fluoride is a neurotoxin, but your question makes the assumption that it is. In answering your question, you are asking me to buy into that assumption. That's a cheap, dirty tactic, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for pulling that bullshit.
I'm just asking why you are so quick to believe an article that concludes fluoride is a neurotoxin while simultaneously being quick to dismiss an article that concludes it's not a risk to your health? What sort of criteria do you use to discern factual information from misinterpretation of data? How do you distinguish between experts and charlatans?
It seems to me like your main discerning factor is anti-intellectualism. The more peer-reviewed and institutionalized a source is, the less likely you are to believe it. I think you've developed a reflex that rejects all sources that don't fit your narrative, and this reflex is representing itself to you as skepticism or "thinking for yourself".
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
Edited by Nonagon Infinity (08/05/20 11:15 AM)
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead]
#26864333 - 08/05/20 11:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
feevers said: No one is making this political except for you..
Sorry. What?
"The national sentinel is a trump fan club"

Exactly, you quoted from political propaganda mouthpieces. All I did was point out that the sources were garbage, and not worth a click.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
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Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: theRealrollforever]
#26864338 - 08/05/20 11:16 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
theRealrollforever said: Well guys idk about you, but I’m gonna need an expert to tell me wtf this article was about. What is being smart? Am I an expert? I need an expert to tell me. Then I can either confidently think like an expert or if I’m not an expert it’s probably better to just stop thinking.
Omg, if you thought the conclusion of the article was that "it's probably better to just stop thinking," then you either didn't read the article or you completely missed the point.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,141
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 55 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
#26864505 - 08/05/20 12:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said:
Quote:
HamHead said: But what you're telling me is I shouldn't listen to these articles and listen to those who say a neurotoxin is safe to drink on a daily basis, multiple times per day.
That is absolutely not what I'm saying. What you're asking here is a loaded question, and it's a dirty, childish argumentation tactic. I'm surprised that an alleged critical thinker like you would resort to such strategies. I do not agree with the proposition that fluoride is a neurotoxin, but your question makes the assumption that it is. In answering your question, you are asking me to buy into that assumption. That's a cheap, dirty tactic, and you ought to be ashamed of yourself for pulling that bullshit.
I'm just asking why you are so quick to believe an article that concludes fluoride is a neurotoxin while simultaneously being quick to dismiss an article that concludes it's not a risk to your health? What sort of criteria do you use to discern factual information from misinterpretation of data? How do you distinguish between experts and charlatans?
It seems to me like your main discerning factor is anti-intellectualism. The more peer-reviewed and institutionalized a source is, the less likely you are to believe it. I think you've developed a reflex that rejects all sources that don't fit your narrative, and this reflex is representing itself to you as skepticism or "thinking for yourself".
No one except you is disputing that it is toxic. It's a scientifically proven fact.
What is disputed by "experts" is that at low levels that can assist with cavity reduction it is tolerated without harm by humans.
Personally I'm not convinced of the safety of efficacy of it enough to drink it. I could be wrong but I'd rather not risk it as I drink a shitload of water.
Earlier in this thread I saw some wild correlation between changing vaccine additives and an increase in autism rates. It'd be more amusing if they started looking for data points to correlate autism with flouridated water. If we look hard enough they can be found, Facebook would love it. It would be fun to watch the new muppet controversy.
--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Northerner]
#26864535 - 08/05/20 12:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Northerner said:
Earlier in this thread I saw some wild correlation between changing vaccine additives and an increase in autism rates. It'd be more amusing if they started looking for data points to correlate autism with flouridated water. If we look hard enough they can be found, Facebook would love it. It would be fun to watch the new muppet controversy. 
That's already actually a thing unfortunately, despite the prevalence of autism in many countries and areas that don't even have fluoridated water.
The autism/vaccine myth will never go away, despite the fact that through postmortem brain studies they've found measurable differences in people with ASD in brain areas formed before someone is even born. The first signs of autism tend to appear in the very early stages of social development, coinciding with when children are vaccinated, which contributes to people thinking it's due to the vaccinations ("they were so normal before they got their shots!"), even though the pattern is the same in un-vaccinated children with autism, who studies have shown develop autism at the same rate as vaccinated ones.
Fuck fluoride in the drinking water though, it's never made much sense to me when fluoride is so cheap/easy to get for people who want to use it. Supposedly it gets absorbed through the skin too, especially in a nice steamy shower with your pores wide open.
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Nonagon Infinity
Mycologist



Registered: 06/02/20
Posts: 756
Loc: Polygondwanaland
Last seen: 2 years, 11 months
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Northerner]
#26864537 - 08/05/20 12:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Northerner said: No one except you is disputing that it is toxic. It's a scientifically proven fact.
I mean, anything is toxic at a high enough dosage, but I'm sure we both understand that clearly. When I say it's nontoxic, just take that as shorthand for "nontoxic at the concentration at which it is found in our water supply due to government regulation," which is really what is being disputed in the fluoride debate, and I think you and I are on the same page about that.
Quote:
Northerner said: What is disputed by "experts" is that at low levels that can assist with cavity reduction it is tolerated without harm by humans.
Sure, this is what's really being debated when it comes to fluoride. Tell me, though, how do you distinguish between an expert and an "expert"? I'm curious about your methods.
Quote:
Northerner said: Earlier in this thread I saw some wild correlation between changing vaccine additives and an increase in autism rates. It'd be more amusing if they started looking for data points to correlate autism with flouridated water. If we look hard enough they can be found, Facebook would love it. It would be fun to watch the new muppet controversy. 
I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here, but if you're trying to argue that increased regulation on fluoride levels in tap water have correlated with autism, it's quite clear that such a correlation would prove nothing. Correlation =/= causation.
It's also worth noting in the scheme of the great fluoride debate that, sometimes, fluoride regulation is about reducing fluoride concentration in tap water rather than increasing it. Colorado Springs, CO, is an example of one region where the fluoride concentration was reduced to meet regulation standards.
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,141
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 55 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Nonagon Infinity] 3
#26864632 - 08/05/20 01:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
Northerner said:
Earlier in this thread I saw some wild correlation between changing vaccine additives and an increase in autism rates. It'd be more amusing if they started looking for data points to correlate autism with flouridated water. If we look hard enough they can be found, Facebook would love it. It would be fun to watch the new muppet controversy. 
That's already actually a thing unfortunately, despite the prevalence of autism in many countries and areas that don't even have fluoridated water.
The autism/vaccine myth will never go away, despite the fact that through postmortem brain studies they've found measurable differences in people with ASD in brain areas formed before someone is even born. The first signs of autism tend to appear in the very early stages of social development, coinciding with when children are vaccinated, which contributes to people thinking it's due to the vaccinations ("they were so normal before they got their shots!"), even though the pattern is the same in un-vaccinated children with autism, who studies have shown develop autism at the same rate as vaccinated ones.
Fuck fluoride in the drinking water though, it's never made much sense to me when fluoride is so cheap/easy to get for people who want to use it. Supposedly it gets absorbed through the skin too, especially in a nice steamy shower with your pores wide open.
I could have guessed it, it's funny. Some people have really grabbed onto the vax conspiracy with both hands and no deductive reasoning. I'm glad flouride is getting a shot in the autism conspiracy arena as well.
Flouride is only good for teeth when topically applied as well, it's illogical to actually drink it or bathe in it. About a decade back my community staged organised protests about the flouride in the water, which persisted for about a year, and the local guvmint listened and stopped adding it. Sometimes democracy does work. The cost savings are huge, like 6 million a year just for my small region. Knowing that water flouridation is a multi billion dollar industry hasn't given me any deeper trust in it.
Quote:
Nonagon Infinity said: I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here, but if you're trying to argue that increased regulation on fluoride levels in tap water have correlated with autism, it's quite clear that such a correlation would prove nothing. Correlation =/= causation.
It's also worth noting in the scheme of the great fluoride debate that, sometimes, fluoride regulation is about reducing fluoride concentration in tap water rather than increasing it. Colorado Springs, CO, is an example of one region where the fluoride concentration was reduced to meet regulation standards.
I'm just joking around, pitting the crazy against the corrupt. I'm glad you spotted the irony and contradiction.
When water flouridation was established more than 70 years ago the living conditions and health education of people was very different, like when they added iodine to salt. Sure at the time both these things served a tangible purpose but times have changed significantly since then and the harm vs benefit ratio may have changed significantly in many areas.
Kids in my area, that has no flouride in it's drinking water, brush daily with flouride toothpaste. They have few cavities. It's no longer 1945.
--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
Edited by Northerner (08/05/20 01:40 PM)
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: feevers]
#26864942 - 08/05/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
feevers said:
Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
feevers said: No one is making this political except for you..
Sorry. What?
"The national sentinel is a trump fan club"

Exactly, you quoted from political propaganda mouthpieces. All I did was point out that the sources were garbage, and not worth a click.
You're calling it a political propaganda mouthpiece, not me. I pulled an article from it before ever knowing what 'side' it supports, until you told me it's for trump fans.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead]
#26865093 - 08/05/20 05:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Critical thinking is not supported here, don't pretend otherwise.
Rational debate is not allowed. Ad hominem is all!
It is only emotional arguments and appeals to authority.
Get in your echo chamber and blast off!
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feevers


Registered: 12/28/10
Posts: 8,546
Loc:
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: InfiniteDreams] 1
#26865120 - 08/05/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Only in 2020 could calling a website what it is and directly quoting wikipedia be considered "being political"
If you had quoted from a my little pony forum I would have called it out as equally ridiculous. That'd be political though, don't want to offend the pony party
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Northerner
splelling chceker


Registered: 07/29/12
Posts: 14,141
Loc: FNQ
Last seen: 55 minutes, 24 seconds
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: feevers]
#26865291 - 08/05/20 06:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Prerequisite for modern conversation is that you have to push away any thoughts of accepting any new information, you have to build a mental wall and let your reptilian brain take over. That fear you feel is a good thing. It keeps you from taking on any dangerous ideas that might take you away from the status quo and make you look different among your peers
--------------------
The nearest we ever come to knowing truth is when we are witness to paradox.
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rantmakes
peregrinus


Registered: 08/05/20
Posts: 8
Loc: Southeast USA
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead]
#26865546 - 08/05/20 09:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said: But what you're telling me is I shouldn't listen to these articles and listen to those who say a neurotoxin is safe to drink on a daily basis, multiple times per day.
Well, that's exactly how guidelines are determined. The toxicity limits for various environmental exposures are based on daily consumption by "average" individuals over a period of a "lifetime" (approximately 70 years). So to drink 5 ppm benzene contaminated water is fine, unless you do everyday for a lifetime.
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Srirachi
Mold Hand



Registered: 10/18/05
Posts: 11,411
Loc: Fare Thee Well.
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: feevers]
#26865569 - 08/05/20 09:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm still stunned that people who expect to be taken seriously quote Wikipedia.
Let's walk through it.
1.) Most people agree that most people are idiots.
2.) Wikipedia is polling results on what most people think on a subject, written in encyclopedia format.
3.) There is no 3, 1 & 2 cover it perfectly well.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



Registered: 03/17/15
Posts: 6,107
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: rantmakes]
#26865583 - 08/05/20 10:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
rantmakes said:
Quote:
HamHead said: But what you're telling me is I shouldn't listen to these articles and listen to those who say a neurotoxin is safe to drink on a daily basis, multiple times per day.
Well, that's exactly how guidelines are determined. The toxicity limits for various environmental exposures are based on daily consumption by "average" individuals over a period of a "lifetime" (approximately 70 years). So to drink 5 ppm benzene contaminated water is fine, unless you do everyday for a lifetime.

A "lifetime" you say?
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/
"Choi and senior author Philippe Grandjean, adjunct professor of environmental health at HSPH, and their colleagues collated the epidemiological studies of children exposed to fluoride from drinking water. The China National Knowledge Infrastructure database also was included to locate studies published in Chinese journals. They then analyzed possible associations with IQ measures in more than 8,000 children of school age; all but one study suggested that high fluoride content in water may negatively affect cognitive development."
School age is a fairly short "lifetime" to be experiencing "cognitive development".
Oh, can't forget those 9 additional months of development when a mother drinks tap water. Could be considered a crucial development period.
I'm too stupid to tell. My mom must have drank tap water.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
Edited by HamHead (08/05/20 10:13 PM)
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rantmakes
peregrinus


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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead]
#26865600 - 08/05/20 10:31 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
rantmakes said:
Quote:
HamHead said: But what you're telling me is I shouldn't listen to these articles and listen to those who say a neurotoxin is safe to drink on a daily basis, multiple times per day.
Well, that's exactly how guidelines are determined. The toxicity limits for various environmental exposures are based on daily consumption by "average" individuals over a period of a "lifetime" (approximately 70 years). So to drink 5 ppm benzene contaminated water is fine, unless you do everyday for a lifetime.

A "lifetime" you say?
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/
"Choi and senior author Philippe Grandjean, adjunct professor of environmental health at HSPH, and their colleagues collated the epidemiological studies of children exposed to fluoride from drinking water. The China National Knowledge Infrastructure database also was included to locate studies published in Chinese journals. They then analyzed possible associations with IQ measures in more than 8,000 children of school age; all but one study suggested that high fluoride content in water may negatively affect cognitive development."
School age is a fairly short "lifetime" to be experiencing "cognitive development".
Oh, can't forget those 9 additional months of development when a mother drinks tap water. Could be considered a crucial development period.
I'm too stupid to tell. My mom must have drank tap water.

Please post links of peer reviewed or otherwise regulated data for fluoride toxicity concentrations in drinking water. As a kid I took chewable fluoride tablets in addition to using fluoride toothpaste with fluoride dosed tapwater and I turned out just fine.
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Nonagon Infinity
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Srirachi] 2
#26865653 - 08/05/20 11:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Srirachi said: I'm still stunned that people who expect to be taken seriously quote Wikipedia.
I'd say it depends on the article and what, specifically, is being quoted. Wikipedia has a trail of citations you can follow, so you can always compare what's written in the article to another source (and if you can't, then that's a red flag).
Quote:
Srirachi said: 1.) Most people agree that most people are idiots.
I don't think that's true, though...
Quote:
Srirachi said: 2.) Wikipedia is polling results on what most people think on a subject, written in encyclopedia format.
It's a community-edited encyclopedia, not a poll.
I'm not arguing that Wikipedia is a perfect resource. It's not. It's a useful research tool, and it has its own advantages and disadvantages. I'd say the main advantages are the sheer volume of subjects, the searchability, and the hypertext format, which allows you to follow trails of links to other articles and sources cited. I think the main disadvantage is that the community-edited approach sometimes, unfortunately, allows for people with legitimate contributions to be silenced by the community and for people with bogus contributions to be published. This disadvantage isn't enough to discredit the entire website, though, is it?
-------------------- Nonagon Infinity Opens the Door
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Srirachi
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
#26865852 - 08/06/20 06:11 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I think we more or less agree then. I don't understand why people who want to be taken seriously post a source that is more or less right most of the time, on some subjects. The "opinion poll" statement was of course using a literary device, over-simplification and simile so maybe 2 actually, to highlight a flaw in the subject. It still seems rather a valid statement to me.
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Ice9
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Srirachi] 1
#26866023 - 08/06/20 08:54 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Summaries are usually full of fluff to get the study published, go to the publisher, they offer the methodology and conditions as an add-on PDF for free. Go hog wild from there, though I doubt any specific person has the tools to reconstruct the study. This is why science lies in pear review... people who work in the same field, who can look at the raw data and draw appropriate conclusions. Many studies attempt to draw conclusions not supported my the evidence the researchers themselves supplied. Product of of publish or perish mentality.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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Asante
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Ice9] 1
#26866054 - 08/06/20 09:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: This is why science lies in pear review
-------------------- Omnicyclion.org higher knowledge starts here
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tyrannicalrex
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Ice9] 1
#26866056 - 08/06/20 09:17 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ice9 said: This is why science lies in pear review...

Ohhh reeeaaaaly? I didn't know they did this for scientific purposes. How does that work exactly? What kind of pears do they use? Is only a pear reviewed article the be all end all to any study done?
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Asante]
#26866057 - 08/06/20 09:18 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said:
Quote:
Ice9 said: This is why science lies in pear review

HA!
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feevers


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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: tyrannicalrex] 1
#26866102 - 08/06/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: feevers]
#26866105 - 08/06/20 09:49 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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YES! We also get french benefits?
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Ice9
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: tyrannicalrex] 1
#26866153 - 08/06/20 10:24 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Pears are the wisest creatures on on earth. Known fact, it's even peer reviewed 
You all are missing something from another thread by OP I posted in.
-------------------- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Brenard Shaw
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morrowasted
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Ice9]
#26866282 - 08/06/20 11:23 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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HamHead, I'm getting concerned about how far up your ass your head appears to be stuck. if you leave it there for too long, your bowels will perforate
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Srirachi
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: morrowasted] 1
#26866483 - 08/06/20 01:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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If that were true, you'd have posted something that might reach him rather than something to affirm your own superior viewpoint.
Just say what you mean.
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morrowasted
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Srirachi] 1
#26866724 - 08/06/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You havent been paying attention. I tried cor months, via both posts and pms, to be patient with him.
It is pointless. He doesnt listen. He has his head stuck up his own ass. Im tired of trying to educate someone who isnt willing to be educated
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HamHead
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: morrowasted]
#26866746 - 08/06/20 03:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: You havent been paying attention. I tried cor months, via both posts and pms, to be patient with him.
It is pointless. He doesnt listen. He has his head stuck up his own ass. Im tired of trying to educate someone who isnt willing to be educated
I haven't been paying attention.
Did you say something?
Of any relevance? Like, at all recently?
And it's really funny you are saying I have my head in my ass, while you're claiming to know better than me, and everyone else on this board.
So, why don't you take your own head and remove it from your rectum. See what I did there?
It's a rectum, not an ass.
Also, I'm regular. Are you, working such stressful hours?
When's the last time you took a shit, morrowasted?
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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christopera
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead]
#26866874 - 08/06/20 05:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You aren't smart enough to do your own research, we know this, from at least two leading indicators. The first being, you haven't published any research of your own. The second, you aren't even honest about the research you present to your peers here.
From the Impact of Fluoride article;
Quote:
Fluoride is a naturally occurring substance in groundwater, and exposures to the chemical are increased in some parts of China.
"naturally occurring"
"increased in some parts of China"
From the study Developmental Fluoride Neurotoxicity (linked to from your article);
Quote:
Objective: We performed a systematic review and meta-analysis of published studies to investigate the effects of increased fluoride exposure and delayed neurobehavioral development.
"increased fluoride exposure"
Notice how it doesn't say fluoride from average intake? Also, note that natural ground water contains fluoride. AKA, all the hillbillies pulling water from a well or spring are getting fluoride too, however, the study compared places where ground water contained normal amounts to areas with high amounts, meaning amounts not usually consumed without geographical exceptions. Nowhere does the study talk about water that has been purified or where water has added fluoride.
They go on;
Quote:
In total, we identified 27 eligible epidemiological studies with high and reference exposures,
In other words, those with high exposures faired worse than those with normal exposures. No where does it say that you should avoid fluoride all together.
Your ability to either be intentionally dishonest or willfully ignorant is case and point. The article you linked to in post one really is an exciting bit of projection on your part.
Edited by christopera (08/06/20 05:09 PM)
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HamHead
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: christopera]
#26866904 - 08/06/20 05:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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InfiniteDreams


Registered: 10/25/19
Posts: 1,224
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: morrowasted] 2
#26866906 - 08/06/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said: You havent been paying attention. I tried cor months, via both posts and pms, to be patient with him.
It is pointless. He doesnt listen. He has his head stuck up his own ass. Im tired of trying to educate someone who isnt willing to be educated
HamHead is far more open minded than many prolific posters on this forum.
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morrowasted
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 1
#26866945 - 08/06/20 05:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said:
Quote:
morrowasted said: You havent been paying attention. I tried cor months, via both posts and pms, to be patient with him.
It is pointless. He doesnt listen. He has his head stuck up his own ass. Im tired of trying to educate someone who isnt willing to be educated
I haven't been paying attention.
Did you say something?
Of any relevance? Like, at all recently?
And it's really funny you are saying I have my head in my ass, while you're claiming to know better than me, and everyone else on this board.
So, why don't you take your own head and remove it from your rectum. See what I did there?
It's a rectum, not an ass.
Also, I'm regular. Are you, working such stressful hours?
When's the last time you took a shit, morrowasted?
I do know better than you.
Ive been wrong, specifically about covid. For example, I suspected it wouldnt be a major problem in hot and humid places. Koods challenged me on this. I turned out to be wrong. I admitted I was wrong. Coincidentally, I not only know I was wrong based on the official stats, but also based on the nature of my work.
What separates us- besides years of relevant education and experience- is that you never cop to it when youre wrong- even when it is easily demonstrable. You quoted an article about hcq recently in order to defend its use that specifically stated not to use it for prophylaxis. You then proceeded to state you think it ought to be used for prophylaxis. The part where it said not to use it for prophylaxis wasnt even buried in the body of the text, it was IN THE PART YOU COPIED AND PASTED. You do not even understand the material you use to try to defend your positions. You do not own up to it when we show you why what you say doesnt make sense. The fact that you appear to feel zero shame about this makes me suspect some kind personality disorder is in play. I am sorry you have this problem. I also have pitiable problems that make it difficult for me to deal effectively with truths I understand about myself, but being incapable of recognizing when I am wrong isnt one of them, which puts me in a better position to understand truths about things outside of me.
You tried to take an antivax position via PM recently, and when you realized you hadnt read my post thoroughly, you simply decided to abandon the conversation.
Edited by morrowasted (08/06/20 05:59 PM)
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christopera
Stranger


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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 1
#26867025 - 08/06/20 06:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: morrowasted]
#26867040 - 08/06/20 06:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah, some side effects from vaccines, such as paralysis, simply just "go away". And lawyers are hired to fight, though it's a little difficult when vaccine producers have ZERO liabilities, nor do any doctors sticking people with vaccines. Anything happens, any side effects, such as paralysis, falls on the victims and the victims only. They are the ones who have to care for children with adverse reactions that many parents say, their child is never the same.
You can claim all your education for your entire life.
Until it happens to you or someone around you, your mind, much as mine, remains set on your path, as is mine.
It's funny you say I don't admit being wrong. I, for one, was frightened at first. I was angry at those around me NOT wearing mask, during peak infection weeks in mid April, I was the only person walking around my local grocery store wearing a surgical mask, up and formed over my nose. I took it seriously and was angry at people who did not social distance.
I was wrong. I may not have openly admitted or said so, but there was a shift in my perspective when I began seeing videos of other epidemiologists, such as Knut Wittkowski and John Loannidis.
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=JiiMY_wAAAAJ&hl=en
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=r_lxEYkAAAAJ&hl=en
Then, those two doctors speaking out of California.
Then Andrew Kaufman.
https://scholar.google.com/citations?user=GkAwsTUAAAAJ&hl=en
And Vladimir Zelenko, who sent a letter to POTUS sharing his findings involving HCQ when used with zinc and explains HCQ mechanisms of action, allowing zinc to penetrate into cells for its antiviral properties.
https://doctor.webmd.com/doctor/5780111/vladimir-zelenko-conditions-procedures
And I changed my stance on Covid-19.
I did my own research and discovered how common colds are coronaviruses.
Then, I learned about T cell immunity, and how other, common cold coronaviruses, respond to SARS-CoV-2 and many people already have some sort of immunity. If this were not the case, many more people would be showing early symptoms and hospitals really would be overwhelmed as our bodies would not have any T cell memory resistances.
Then, coronavirus vaccines and how they all fail in animal challenge trials, causing ADE.
And Gates and his plans to vaccinate every person on earth.

I'll listen to those with years of experience before I start listening to a nurse.

You still in school, morrowasted?
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
Edited by HamHead (08/06/20 06:54 PM)
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morrowasted
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead]
#26867103 - 08/06/20 07:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I literally said in post that severe side effects happen
Quote:
side effects are expected with any kind of medicine. some may cause a mild fever, some may cause pain at the injection site. serious side effects are very rare. they do happen,
just like you fail to comprehend the articles you cite, you fail to comprehend the posts you pick arguments with
You cherry pick your articles, you cherry pick the specific parts of those articles, you cherry pick your "experts". I am surrounded by doctors constantly. 100% of them agree that wearing a mask reduces the chance of spreading infection. 100% of them agree that the benefits of the vaccinations we give outweigh the risks. When they dont, we dont give them. That is why we do not give the BCG vaccine here. Coincidentally, none of the doctors i am surrounded by make money off of youtube
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HamHead
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: morrowasted]
#26867177 - 08/06/20 07:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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side effects are expected with any kind of medicine. some may cause a mild fever, some may cause pain at the injection site. serious side effects are very rare. they do happen, but again, serious side effects also sometimes occur with the medicines we use to treat the diseases we are trying to prevent. the nice thing about the side effects of vaccines is that they go away within a couple of days and you rarely ever have to get the vaccine. As far as medicine goes, they're relatively unprofitable compared with medicines that need to be taken all the time.
Edited by morrowasted (08/05/20 11:09 AM)
Cherry pick your own post then.
Edit.
'Oh, my child is paralyzed. It's been less than a day since that vaccine. It'll go away in a couple days, nothing to worry about.'
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
Edited by HamHead (08/06/20 07:56 PM)
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morrowasted
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead]
#26867346 - 08/06/20 09:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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you are being intentionally obstinate, you know that paralysis doesn't go away in a couple of days, and the side effects I was referring to were the ones that most people get, not the extremely uncommon ones. you ignored my PM response because I simply acknowledged that these effects occur and there wasn't an argument to be had when you thought there would be.
we also pass out antipsychotic drugs that result in permanent extrapyramidal movement disorders. this is a much bigger problem than vaccines. this is one case where it might be argued that the benefits do not outweigh the consequences. I'm honestly not sure. In the case of vaccines, they definitely do.
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HamHead
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: morrowasted]
#26867408 - 08/06/20 09:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Going to have a really hard time convincing me vaccines are safe.
https://www.drugs.com/sfx/meningococcal-conjugate-vaccine-side-effects.html
"Meningococcal conjugate vaccine Side Effects Medically reviewed by Drugs.com. Last updated on Jan 1, 2020.
For the Consumer Applies to meningococcal conjugate vaccine: intramuscular suspension
Side effects requiring immediate medical attention Along with its needed effects, meningococcal conjugate vaccine may cause some unwanted effects. Although not all of these side effects may occur, if they do occur they may need medical attention.
Check with your doctor or nurse immediately if any of the following side effects occur while taking meningococcal conjugate vaccine:
More common
Chills fever general feeling of discomfort or illness unusual tiredness or weakness Incidence not known
Back pain, sudden and severe blurred vision burning, crawling, itching, numbness, prickling, "pins and needles", or tingling feelings confusion cough difficulty with swallowing dizziness dizziness, faintness, or lightheadedness when getting up suddenly from a lying or sitting position fainting fast heartbeat flushing or redness of the skin hives or welts inability to move the arms and legs itching muscle weakness, sudden and progressing puffiness or swelling of the eyelids or around the eyes, face, lips, or tongue seizures shortness of breath skin rash sudden numbness and weakness in the arms and legs sweating tightness in the chest unusually warm skin wheezing
Side effects not requiring immediate medical attention Some side effects of meningococcal conjugate vaccine may occur that usually do not need medical attention. These side effects may go away during treatment as your body adjusts to the medicine. Also, your health care professional may be able to tell you about ways to prevent or reduce some of these side effects.
Check with your health care professional if any of the following side effects continue or are bothersome or if you have any questions about them:
More common
Crying diarrhea difficulty with moving drowsiness irritability loss of appetite muscle pain or stiffness pain in the joints pain, redness, swelling, or tenderness at the injection site vomiting For Healthcare Professionals Applies to meningococcal conjugate vaccine: intramuscular powder for injection, intramuscular solution
General The most common adverse events were injection site pain, irritability, diarrhea, headache, and fatigue.[Ref]
Local Very common (10% or more): Injection site pain (48.1%), injection site redness (16%), injection site induration (11%)
Common (1% to 10%): Injection site swelling, injection site hematoma
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Injection site pruritus
Postmarketing reports: Injection site reaction, injection site cellulitis, extensive swelling of the injected limb (frequently associated with erythema, sometimes involving the adjacent joint or swelling of the entire injected limb)[Ref]
Nervous system Very common (10% or more): Headache (41.8%), drowsiness (11.2%)
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Dizziness, hypoesthesia
Postmarketing reports: Vasovagal syncope, paresthesia, Guillain-Barre syndrome, vertigo, tonic convulsion, febrile convulsion, vertigo, vestibular disorder, syncope, facial paresis, balance disorder[Ref]
Gastrointestinal Very common (10% or more): Diarrhea (14%), nausea
Common (1% to 10%): Vomiting, gastrointestinal symptoms[Ref]
Other Very common (10% or more): Fatigue (32.3%), malaise (22.3%), fever
Common (1% to 10%): Chills, crying
Postmarketing reports: Asthenia, impaired hearing, ear pain, fall, head injury, body temperature increased[Ref]
Dermatologic Common (1% to 10%): Rash
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Pruritus
Postmarketing reports: Bullous conditions[Ref]
Musculoskeletal Very common (10% or more): Arthralgia (16%), myalgia
Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Pain in extremity
Postmarketing reports: Bone pain[Ref]
Psychiatric Very common (10% or more): Irritability (12.2%)
Common (1% to 10%): Insomnia[Ref]
Metabolic Very common (10% or more): Appetite lost
Common (1% to 10%): Anorexia, eating disorder[Ref]
Respiratory Uncommon (0.1% to 1%): Nasopharyngitis
Postmarketing reports: Oropharyngeal pain[Ref]
Hypersensitivity Postmarketing reports: Hypersensitivity (such as rash, urticaria, pruritus, dyspnea, angioedema) including anaphylaxis[Ref]
Hepatic Postmarketing reports: Alanine aminotransferase increased[Ref]
Ocular Postmarketing reports: Eyelid ptosis[Ref]
References 1. "Product Information. Menactra (meningococcal conjugate vaccine)." sanofi pasteur, Swiftwater, PA.
2. Cerner Multum, Inc. "UK Summary of Product Characteristics." O 0
3. Cerner Multum, Inc. "Australian Product Information." O 0
Further information Always consult your healthcare provider to ensure the information displayed on this page applies to your personal circumstances.
Some side effects may not be reported. You may report them to the FDA."
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: HamHead] 4
#26867410 - 08/06/20 09:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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the majority are relatively safe and the benefits are huge compared to the small percentage that have problems. I knew you were an anti-vaxxer. You cannot be trusted. Why? It’s because you don’t know how to critically think. You display a crude mimicry of critical thinking skills - and it’s leading you astray.
It’s imperfect yet incredibly valuable medical tool for the majority of humanity and we are better bc of it - it’s not magic. That’s just how the real world goes kid.
What you need is a proper education. Medicine & the sciences generally have a certain sequence in which they need to be studied or everything will become dark & confusing when you try to learn it. Prerequisites are a necessity for much of it because without the fundamental building blocks you will never be able to appropriately comprehend the subject matter.
Edited by The Blind Ass (08/06/20 09:56 PM)
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26867421 - 08/06/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: You cannot be trusted.
Who can be?
Fauci? Gates?
Think you're any better?
Go ahead and educate me then if you are so sure I am wrong.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,657
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own researc [Re: HamHead] 6
#26867454 - 08/06/20 10:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You are just a sad little man who doesn’t know what he’s talking about. So I won’t be wasting my time doing anything other than poking you with an e-stick. Why? Because you’ve allowed ego to foolishly drive you insane without even recognizing it. With the internet at my beck and call - I could just do what you do. I could pull up nearly an unlimited number of sources to make a seemingly compelling argument for or against anything. I can copy and paste and underline key phrases which bolster my argument and diminish yours. But you can also go do that for yourself. I would rather not do something for you that you can do for yourself. Plus, sophistry looks bad on you. If you go to school, show up, pay attention, and study wisely.. you can become someone who is actually worth engaging in an argument (in a manner befitting adults) But for now, I do not see you as such. You are more like a troll who is ignorant of his own true nature, which is only put up with to a certain point - after that you just become an annoying insect like troll.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (08/06/20 10:42 PM)
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own researc [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26891525 - 08/21/20 11:01 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2020/08/19/why-t-cell-immunity-wont-end-coronavirus-pandemic/#59f4d15b33d5
Think of your body like a medieval castle under siege. That castle protects itself through means of both defense and offense: the innate immune system and the adaptive immune system. Just as a castle has built-in defenses, such as a moat, walls and drawbridge, the innate immune system is your body’s bulwark against bacteria. Skin, mucous, stomach acid and other things are all designed to repel outside attacks. Should attackers breach your castle, your adaptive immune system acts as the archers, spies and knights against the invaders. They may take a little longer to get their armor on, but once they fight back they are able to use deadly precision. These are your body’s B cells, which produce antibodies, and T cells.
Please, Forbes, just stop.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own researc [Re: HamHead]
#26891539 - 08/21/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fuckabunchaforbes!
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gopher
Coffee Bean Extraordinaire



Registered: 11/22/17
Posts: 12,999
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 3 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own research [Re: Srirachi]
#26891631 - 08/21/20 12:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Srirachi said: I'm still stunned that people who expect to be taken seriously quote Wikipedia.
Let's walk through it.
1.) Most people agree that most people are idiots.
2.) Wikipedia is polling results on what most people think on a subject, written in encyclopedia format.
3.) There is no 3, 1 & 2 cover it perfectly well.
I have hated wikipedia ever since they deleted my post that nicotine causes hiccups, because I didnt cite a source, they had other causes not cited that I dont even think cause hiccups, I think someone on the inside added the other ones so they let it be, but because im not in the fan club they deleted my addition, I think that cause I heard before wikipedia is very cliquey
-------------------- For most of the normies out there, an operating system is just a bootloader for Google Chrome. Since Disney has obtained tremendous value from the public domain, knows how important the public domain is, and is firmly determined to never contribute anything to it. My pronouns are He and Him, and my adjectives are Fat and Jazzy
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own researc [Re: HamHead]
#26891913 - 08/21/20 02:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
HamHead said: https://www.forbes.com/sites/leahrosenbaum/2020/08/19/why-t-cell-immunity-wont-end-coronavirus-pandemic/#59f4d15b33d5
Think of your body like a medieval castle under siege. That castle protects itself through means of both defense and offense: the innate immune system and the adaptive immune system. Just as a castle has built-in defenses, such as a moat, walls and drawbridge, the innate immune system is your body’s bulwark against bacteria. Skin, mucous, stomach acid and other things are all designed to repel outside attacks. Should attackers breach your castle, your adaptive immune system acts as the archers, spies and knights against the invaders. They may take a little longer to get their armor on, but once they fight back they are able to use deadly precision. These are your body’s B cells, which produce antibodies, and T cells.
Please, Forbes, just stop.
what problem do you have with what they wrote here? Its a decent explanation for those not formally educated in immunology. Not sure i agree with the way this piece is written overall but i see nothing wrong with that portion
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own researc [Re: morrowasted]
#26891958 - 08/21/20 02:57 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I took the time to take photos of my Microbiology/Immunology textbook explaining how memory T cells and antibodies work. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but this is a chance to avail yourself of free college-level education in the subject- if you're actually interested in it, I assume you'll take the time to read all of it. I did.







If there is anything else you'd like to learn about at a more advanced level, I'd be happy to share whatever resources I have with you.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own researc [Re: morrowasted]
#26892154 - 08/21/20 05:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's great.
I have to go refill my moat with live alligators and I think my drawbridge is down. Which one of those is T cells again? My moat or my drawbridge?
Forbes must think it's appealing to 4 year olds, talking about castle walls, moats, archers and drawbridges when speaking on such a complex subject such as an immune system.
-------------------- The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited, but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders https://www.icandecide.org/
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper


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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own researc [Re: HamHead]
#26892228 - 08/21/20 06:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't read forbes.
You don't have to, either.
I'm sharing real information with you.
The kind of information I use as the basis for the statements I make about immune responses.
Feel free to do the same.
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HamHead
Hard Ass Motherfucker



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Posts: 6,107
Loc: Galactic sector ZZ9 Plura...
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: Forbes says you're not smart enough to do your own researc [Re: morrowasted]
#26893100 - 08/22/20 08:31 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Pulled from that thread I'm unable to post in. Thank you. It proves a point. We need to get out and develop herd immunity, such as these states which have been 'protesting' and gathering for many days.
https://m.theepochtimes.com/t-cell-immunity-underestimated-in-predictions-for-covid-19-herd-immunity_3465083.html
"Areas of Possible Herd Immunity States like Oregon, Washington, and Illinois—where large crowds of people are protesting and rioting frequently without social distancing and where some are not wearing masks—are not seeing a significant spike in new cases or deaths.
The Washington Department of Health tweeted on Aug. 14 that the state’s “COVID-19 cases are plateauing” even in King County where the riots continue to take place.
Oregon reported its lowest daily COVID-19 cases on Aug. 17 of 189 and no new deaths, bringing the number of total cases to 23,451 and a death toll of 388.
In Illinois, while daily cases began to rise again towards the end of June with the increasing number of tests given, the fatality rates had begun to significantly decline at the same time.
And in Ventura County in California, a church protesting Gov. Gavin Newsom’s lockdown mandate has been offering indoor services for its congregants (of up to several thousand people) for the past two months without any virus outbreaks, according to NTD. While the church does focus on properly sanitizing before and after services, Pastor Rob McCoy of Godspeak Calvary Chapel leaves it up to church members if they want to wear masks and physical distancing.
The pastor and his church members are facing legal consequences for attending an in-person church service after breaking a temporary restraining order to not hold indoor activities.
One possible explanation for lower deaths in these communities is that natural herd immunity has taken effect to some degree."
Edit.
Let's look at those states, and a couple others. I like these graphs, however accurate their numbers are, it's a thing many people reference to.

Edit 2.
Though, in my ignorance, I think it's a little late being close to September. And with reports of entire class rooms, granted maybe only 10 children and a teacher, are quarantined for 14 days because of a positive test results, while political officials have tested both positive and negative in a 24 hour time frame. Other reports of both positive and negative test in a short time frame, many times multiple negatives, and when a positive does show up, a ruckus is made and as you can see in sports, athletes are having to sit out due to a 1/6 positive test ratio.
Yet, NBA, MLB, NHL continues, as organizations, allowed to operate on a massive scale, while small family owned businesses are not allowed to open without risk of repercussions.
And don't get me started on walmart, home depot, Lowe's, Amazon, CVS, Walgreens, Kroger, etc. Etc. Etc.
All big businesses who are still up and running.
Get a job at any one of these and you're able to scratch by, but open your own small business, you risk being closed, or targeted in some way for not virtue signaling by continuing to remain closed.
Riots have burned buildings, some of which happened to be small businesses. What happens to those people who worked to open those businesses, when there is no longer a building to operate from. Will their land lords still demand rent on a burned down property?
Can't forget about insurance.
Edited by HamHead (08/22/20 09:04 AM)
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