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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods] 1
#26880577 - 08/14/20 06:51 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
People that try to expose Hillary mysterious die.

Check out the Clinton body count
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: MagicMush123] 1
#26880590 - 08/14/20 07:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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One more comment on this Project Veritas video thing:
If the roles were reversed, I wouldn't dismiss a video anyone else posted as "lies" just because of who made the content, I'd criticize the video itself. I'd take the merit of the video at face value and only allow WHO made it to keep me more or less skeptical about what I was seeing, depending on their integrity, but in the end some videos simply speak for themselves.
An asshole serial killer and a saint can both make you the best meal you've ever had if they have the skill. Making videos isn't any different.
Content is king.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/14/20 07:04 PM)
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Grateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence



Registered: 11/19/12
Posts: 2,468
Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26880720 - 08/14/20 08:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Someone on my Facebook posted this quite about blocking traffic...I didn't look through to see if anyone posted something similar.
Quote:
Protesters don't block traffic to gain your support. They do it so you can see what if feels like to be stuck in a powerless situation. How do you respond to this situation? Are you calm and peaceful? Do you want to spend years organizing political talks about it? Nope, you want to run those protesters over, kill them, kill them all. If you want to kill protesters who have you stuck in traffic, imagine what you would want to do to a system that patrols, harasses and kills you. The sooner you learn perspective, the sooner you won't have to be stuck in traffic.
I'm not advocating for blocking traffic, but felt more empathy for protesters who chose to do so after reading this.
-------------------- Life begins on the other side of despair...
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Posts: 32,557
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26880772 - 08/14/20 09:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Fair point. I hadn't read the YouTube information. This is how the discussion should go. Not post after post of "you're a big fat poo poo head" type posts, which others here have been doing.
Why didn't you do your own due-diligence in basic fact-checking before making your conclusion?
Because my conclusion wasn't that Antifa is a terrorist organization; I made that clear when this discussion began. My conclusion is that Vahn was generally making better arguments than many of the people here who are attacking him with ad-hominem type attacks. I showed you many examples.
We're on two different wave lengths here. I'm trying to show that Vahn does better that most of the people attacking him, you're trying to show that he didn't win the Antifa argument (which I agree).
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Same with the Project Veritas one. You just assumed the sketchy evidence Vahn421 provided, via YouTube video, didn't contain any make believe; and this is why people are pointing out that you hold a double-standard for make believe.
Because again, it wasn't my argument.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: You claimed that "Vahn's OP was primarily his prediction of a future state run by antifa, with a lot of question marks thrown in and him being clear he was expressing his personal opinion for discussion."
Yes, and I still take that position after rereading it. Vahn confirmed I read it correctly.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I examined the OP in question, and did not find a single question mark in their prediction - let alone lots thrown in.
Context. The thread was a question about whether antifa or cops are terrorists. He gave his position with "I lean toward" and a few "hypothetically's" thrown in. I wish Koods showed that kind of honesty.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Can you explain how you reached your conclusion? Are you suggesting that, since Vahn421 asked two discussion-creating questions (same two questions in OP title and body), we should interpret those two question marks as applying to their prediction?
That's how I interpreted it, and Vahn said I was correct. As I said before, he could have done a better job explaining.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26880780 - 08/14/20 09:14 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
People that try to expose Hillary mysterious die.

See, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about Shivas.
On the one hand, you have information that appears to support Vahn's claim: 'Clinton death list': 33 spine-tingling cases
Then you got koods posting absolutely nothing to debunk the claim except riducule.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26880807 - 08/14/20 09:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm trying to show that Vahn does better that most of the people attacking him, you're trying to show that he didn't win the Antifa argument (which I agree).
Only thing I can add to that is you can't, "win" the Antifa argument because Antifa wants as little known about itself as possible. I only know what I know and have conjecture about the rest because of what I've observed already.
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Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26880814 - 08/14/20 10:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
See, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about Shivas.
On the one hand, you have information that appears to support Vahn's claim: 'Clinton death list': 33 spine-tingling cases
Then you got koods posting absolutely nothing to debunk the claim except riducule.
Since when do people have to post evidence to debunk a claim ? Wtf? Show us some evidence Hillary kills people or just admit your a nutter . Appears to support? Lol , give me a fucking break .
Edited by Psilynut2 (08/14/20 10:04 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Psilynut2] 1
#26880896 - 08/14/20 11:52 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Show us some evidence Hillary kills people...
You just quoted it, my dude: 'Clinton death list': 33 spine-tingling cases
Koods says it's just basic common sense that Putin is a murderer based on the sheer number of critics who meet an unfortunate end. Hillary has more dead than Putin. Using koods' logic (which I don't recommend), Hillary is a murderer.
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: ...or just admit your a nutter .
Koods, are you going to admit it, as Psilynut2 suggests?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,340
Loc: attending Snake Church
Last seen: 3 hours, 10 minutes
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: MagicMush123]
#26881056 - 08/15/20 04:59 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
koods said:
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People that try to expose Hillary mysterious die.

Check out the Clinton body count
That's true. All the Reagan and Trump people just ended up indicted and sometimes in prison (particularly Trump's people), until they got pardoned.
I don't know if the Clinton's had people killed or not. But if they did they made much better bosses than Trump, because most of Trump's people turned on him in a heartbeat. A few didn't, and as stand up guys, they deserved their pardon from an organized crime boss.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26881081 - 08/15/20 05:36 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Show us some evidence Hillary kills people...
You just quoted it, my dude: 'Clinton death list': 33 spine-tingling cases
Koods says it's just basic common sense that Putin is a murderer based on the sheer number of critics who meet an unfortunate end. Hillary has more dead than Putin. Using koods' logic (which I don't recommend), Hillary is a murderer.
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: ...or just admit your a nutter .
Koods, are you going to admit it, as Psilynut2 suggests?
You’re definitely a hypocrite and dishonest
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Psilynut2
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/17
Posts: 5,120
Last seen: 8 hours, 53 minutes
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#26881097 - 08/15/20 06:03 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Koods says it's just basic common sense that Putin is a murderer based on the sheer number of critics who meet an unfortunate end. Hillary has more dead than Putin. Using koods' logic (which I don't recommend), Hillary is a murderer.
I wouldn’t recommend your logic either If I were you . Putin is likely to be a murderer because his critics die and he stays in power . That doesn’t even seem possible to change . The Clintons can’t stay in power , hide or cover up anything . She couldn’t even keep email deleting Or failing in Benghazi a secret yet she murders allot of people and gets away with that ? You logic is conspiracy nutter logic . If Hillary had beaten Obama , changed the constitution and was currently serving a third term then the whole body count thing would seem a little more plausible , like it is with Putin .
Edited by Psilynut2 (08/15/20 06:11 AM)
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Psilynut2] 3
#26881326 - 08/15/20 09:48 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Mr. I Hate Fake News is posting Hillary death count articles from World Net Daily. 🤦♂️
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 10 hours, 32 minutes
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26881401 - 08/15/20 10:25 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
You just assumed the sketchy evidence Vahn421 provided, via YouTube video, didn't contain any make believe; and this is why people are pointing out that you hold a double-standard for make believe.
Your assertion that a content creator that has historically not always been morally correct in his approach can't make good content *at all* is completely incorrect.
You ever hear the story of the boy who cried wolf? Once you establish a reputation as a liar, no one believes you even if you tell the truth. An organization with a decades long history of deceptive editing has firmly established its reputation as a serial liar. I wouldn't put effort into debunking a report on Bat Boy from the National Enquirer either.
Not all points of view have merit - not all ideas are equal. Of course we need to take care to avoid close-mindedness but the other side of that road is being so open-minded that we refuse to discriminate ideas with merit from those without merit, resulting in another situation where refusal to closely consider before passing judgement means we lose out on valuable insight.
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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,428
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 10 hours, 32 minutes
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26881523 - 08/15/20 11:45 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Fair point. I hadn't read the YouTube information. This is how the discussion should go. Not post after post of "you're a big fat poo poo head" type posts, which others here have been doing.
Why didn't you do your own due-diligence in basic fact-checking before making your conclusion?
Because my conclusion wasn't that Antifa is a terrorist organization; I made that clear when this discussion began. My conclusion is that Vahn was generally making better arguments than many of the people here who are attacking him with ad-hominem type attacks. I showed you many examples.
We're on two different wave lengths here. I'm trying to show that Vahn does better that most of the people attacking him, you're trying to show that he didn't win the Antifa argument (which I agree).
I'm not attacking Vahn421's argument anymore - I'm pointing out that every example you've provided of Vahn421 "making better arguments" has either been baseless conjecture (not an argument) or make-believe containing Youtube videos (also not an argument). How can you claim that Vahn421 "was generally making better arguments" if you can't even provide an example of one of these arguments?
I know that several posters tried to push Vahn421 to make a proper argument; I tried, Ballsalsa tried, Enlil tried I still never saw any proper arguments put forth. Why should we be expected to provide proper arguments in response, when no initial argument was made?
Do you have any examples of these arguments that Vahn421 made?
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
People that try to expose Hillary mysterious die.

See, this is EXACTLY what I'm talking about Shivas.
On the one hand, you have information that appears to support Vahn's claim: 'Clinton death list': 33 spine-tingling cases
Then you got koods posting absolutely nothing to debunk the claim except riducule.
Did Vahn421 provide that "information that appears to support" along with the initial claim, or did you take the initiative to find it yourself?
Why should we flip the burden of proof and expect koods to debunk Vahn421's claim, rather than expect Vahn421 to support their claim?
And, as koods rightfully points out, it's incredibly odd that someone so opposed to make believe would so casually use WND as a source:
Quote:
Based on reviews by all of our researchers, WND is a Questionable online news source that has a far-right bias and dabbles in right-wing conspiracies such as President Obama’s birth certificate. They also use misleading clickbait headlines that do not always match the content of the article (See M. Allen’s review below). WND also has a very poor track record with fact-checkers:
“California To Register Illegal Aliens To Vote – Automatically.” – Pants on Fire “A U.S. Government Accountability Office report says Planned Parenthood Federation of America cannot find some $1.3 billion given to it by the federal government from 2002 through 2008.” – Pants on fire White House spokesman Robert Gibbs “lied” when he said President Obama’s birth certificate is posted on the Internet. – False Chobani CEO Hamdi Ulukaya vowed to “drown the United States in Muslims” and is “importing them to Idaho 300 at a time to work in his factory.” – Mostly False Elena Kagan Tied to Obama’s Birth Certificate – False A town in New Jersey has forbidden residents from criticizing Muslims or Islam in keeping with sharia law. – Mostly False In early 2019, vandals targeted 12 churches in France over seven days. – Mostly False
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/world-net-daily-wnd/
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26881578 - 08/15/20 12:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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OP, just out of curiosity.... say America bans guns, and you hit the streets to protest. The protest starts to block traffic. Would you join in, or no?
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Dark_Star]
#26881587 - 08/15/20 12:30 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hell no. Out of principal, I don't fuck over innocent people to make a point. I take my problem to the source.
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Dark_Star
train driver pervading a desktop


Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 31,859
Loc: Uranus
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26881593 - 08/15/20 12:33 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Fair enough
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods]
#26881656 - 08/15/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Show us some evidence Hillary kills people...
You just quoted it, my dude: 'Clinton death list': 33 spine-tingling cases
Koods says it's just basic common sense that Putin is a murderer based on the sheer number of critics who meet an unfortunate end. Hillary has more dead than Putin. Using koods' logic (which I don't recommend), Hillary is a murderer.
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: ...or just admit your a nutter .
Koods, are you going to admit it, as Psilynut2 suggests?
You’re definitely a hypocrite and dishonest
Please tell me what I'm dishonest about here. Your logic that Putin is a murderer based on the sheer number of critics who meet an unfortunate end? Or are you just make believing again?
Quote:
koods said: Mr. I Hate Fake News is posting Hillary death count articles from World Net Daily. 🤦♂️
Which of the WND deaths didn't happen? 
And I've pointed out many times before to you that I don't believe the WND article proves Hillary is a murderer, but if you believe Putin is a murderer because some of his critics have mysteriously died, then you have to believe Hillary is a murderer using the exact same logic. Unless you're a hypocrite.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Psilynut2]
#26881659 - 08/15/20 01:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Psilynut2 said: Putin is likely to be a murderer because his critics die and he stays in power. That doesn’t even seem possible to change.
Because most Russians don't believe Putin was responsible, just like most Americans don't think Hillary was responsible.
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: The Clintons can’t stay in power , hide or cover up anything . She couldn’t even keep email deleting Or failing in Benghazi a secret yet she murders allot of people and gets away with that?
You logic is conspiracy nutter logic.
Once again, I don't believe Hillary is a murderer. I'm just saying if you use the same logic with Hillary as you do with Putin, they're either both murderers or neither are.
Quote:
Psilynut2 said: If Hillary had beaten Obama , changed the constitution and was currently serving a third term then the whole body count thing would seem a little more plausible , like it is with Putin .
Most people hate Hillary in America. Most people love Putin in Russia. That's why.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 47 minutes
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26881664 - 08/15/20 01:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ever think theres a reason the only person who still takes you seriously is our local Qcumber?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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