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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421] 2
#26874972 - 08/11/20 12:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Dude, I WASTED 3 PAGES TRYING TO GET FAL TO READ 1 SOURCE!!!
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: natedawgnow]
#26874974 - 08/11/20 12:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Never again
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: natedawgnow]
#26874976 - 08/11/20 12:02 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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And I can surely see how red your face must be right now using my third eye.
Post it one more time for us idiot folk. Let's scrutinize it from the top. If you care to make a case, I'm paying attention now.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,049
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 hours, 45 minutes
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: natedawgnow] 2
#26874979 - 08/11/20 12:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I like how falcon has flattered his way into having vahn do his bidding. Total manipulation.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods] 1
#26874981 - 08/11/20 12:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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The manipulation is you being either malicious or naive enough in thinking I'm not acting independently.
Seriously, if the only way you can keep your narrative up is to assume false things about your opposition, your narrative is going to melt like cotton candy touching water.
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26874983 - 08/11/20 12:06 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Whatever you say bud
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: christopera]
#26875001 - 08/11/20 12:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: Multiple videos! That doesn't mean shit. Anybody with the internet can go find a video that says the opposite (as usual, your confirmation bias is obvious).
So here's what you do. You tell him WHY you don't think his videos qualify as evidence, instead of trying to win by calling him names (I don't mean YOU specifically, I mean the general audience).
Quote:
christopera said: You come up with 35 videos where a person is annoyed with traffic and says something like "I don't support this cause because it made my commute long" and you'll have something, or well, a little bit of something. As is, you have videos of people being annoyed. That's it. It doesn't even prove that they are against BLM or Antifa, or any other movement, it just proves that in the moment they are annoyed.
Did you say that when the video was first posted?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26875010 - 08/11/20 12:17 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Putting a vehicle driving down the road in the same category as a gun threat is ridiculous TO ME, but everyone's entitled to their opinion. The guy slowed down as he approached the crowd and stopped before they started smashing in his windshields. He then zoomed off after he realized he was being attacked. If people truly felt threatened by the driver I BELIEVE that running up to the truck and attacking it wasn't going to make them or the other protesters any safer. But again, that's MY opinion.
Firearms and vehicles are both considered to be 'lethal force' so I consider the comparison appropriate. Pretty poor form that, instead of acknowledging you were wrong regarding the legality of preemptive self-defence, you decide to run a poll with loaded questions.
Poor form that I don't think a truck driving down the road towards people is as dangerous as a guy threatening someone with a gun? I see a HUGE difference, hence the poll.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Loc: California, US
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26875028 - 08/11/20 12:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: It seems you have a gripe with "most people here" - I'm reminded of this recent post of yours also directed to Vahn:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: That puts you and I in the minority here, and is why I updated my current signature. Most people here judge the person or the party, not the content/context.
I think I pissed a few people off on my own side by calling them out on their mistakes. Not because I'm against THEM, but because of something they said.
And when I called you out on this, you choose to selectively edit the quote in your response to just this:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I think I pissed a few people off on my own side by calling them out on their mistakes. Not because I'm against THEM, but because of something they said.
And when I called you out on the part you removed, I don't think you ever responded. Maybe you'll take the time to respond now: make believe or do you have evidence for this?
You want evidence that most people here judge the person over the context?
All the recent discussions with Vahn. Though I disagree with much of what Vahn says, I've been really disappointed in people's lack of logic/evidence in debating him. Off the top of my head, more people try to shame him than counter his actual arguments. You're one of the few people that I think does a good job of arguing your position (though we'll disagree that a truck driving slowly towards a crowd should be attacked).
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods]
#26875043 - 08/11/20 12:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: I like how falcon has flattered his way into having vahn do his bidding. Total manipulation.
I guess Vahn respects honesty more than make believe. Find my make believe and I'll agree to a one week ban on myself.
Until then, PLEASE STOP LYING!!!
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26875075 - 08/11/20 12:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
christopera said: Multiple videos! That doesn't mean shit. Anybody with the internet can go find a video that says the opposite (as usual, your confirmation bias is obvious).
So here's what you do. You tell him WHY you don't think his videos qualify as evidence, instead of trying to win by calling him names (I don't mean YOU specifically, I mean the general audience).
Quote:
christopera said: You come up with 35 videos where a person is annoyed with traffic and says something like "I don't support this cause because it made my commute long" and you'll have something, or well, a little bit of something. As is, you have videos of people being annoyed. That's it. It doesn't even prove that they are against BLM or Antifa, or any other movement, it just proves that in the moment they are annoyed.
Did you say that when the video was first posted?
It's obvious why his videos don't qualify. I already said it. He hasn't posted a single one that actually speaks to his point, instead they are all his own confirmed version of what he narrates.
Why would I say it when he first posted? It's a lot easier to let him flail beneath his thinly veiled dislike for those who exercise their 1st amendment right. He has two posts on the matter already.
Also, your questions are loaded because they are. It's that simple.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
Edited by christopera (08/11/20 12:57 PM)
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: christopera]
#26875086 - 08/11/20 12:59 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said: It's obvious why his videos don't qualify.
Perhaps it's obvious to you, but not to him. People should explain why they feel the way they do instead of attacking the person.
Quote:
christopera said: Also, your questions are loaded because they are. It's that simple.
How would you have worded the questions? I'm trying to learn so I do a better job next time.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
Posts: 5,101
Loc: Chinada
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom] 1
#26875090 - 08/11/20 01:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said: Apparently you think that attacking an unknown vehicle in your proximity is more reasonable than simply walking away. If a vehicle is crawling towards you like in the video, whats more reasonable; parting like the red sea or confronting it and proceeding to smash it up? If you can say with a straight face that confronting and attacking a vehicle is more reasonable than moving away from it then you have picked sides
'Get out of the way' assumes the driver doesn't have malicious intent. The threat that I believe the protesters were reasonably justified in fearing was the threat of a malicious vehicular attack.
I've asked multiple times to multiple people: how do you suggest we respond to the recent trends of vehicular attacks on protests? 'Get out of the way' isn't sufficient if you are being directly targeted - avoiding protests in areas with vehicle access isn't reasonable either. Can you propose a better solution?
How exactly does body damage to a vehicle alleviate that threat?
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: christopera] 1
#26875166 - 08/11/20 01:55 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
christopera said: Multiple videos! That doesn't mean shit. Anybody with the internet can go find a video that says the opposite (as usual, your confirmation bias is obvious).
So here's what you do. You tell him WHY you don't think his videos qualify as evidence, instead of trying to win by calling him names (I don't mean YOU specifically, I mean the general audience).
Quote:
christopera said: You come up with 35 videos where a person is annoyed with traffic and says something like "I don't support this cause because it made my commute long" and you'll have something, or well, a little bit of something. As is, you have videos of people being annoyed. That's it. It doesn't even prove that they are against BLM or Antifa, or any other movement, it just proves that in the moment they are annoyed.
Did you say that when the video was first posted?
It's obvious why his videos don't qualify. I already said it. He hasn't posted a single one that actually speaks to his point, instead they are all his own confirmed version of what he narrates.
Why would I say it when he first posted? It's a lot easier to let him flail beneath his thinly veiled dislike for those who exercise their 1st amendment right. He has two posts on the matter already.
Also, your questions are loaded because they are. It's that simple.
I make a lot of points and it sounds like you're trying to conflate one point with another.
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 1 minute, 48 seconds
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26875912 - 08/11/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
How would you have worded the questions? I'm trying to learn so I do a better job next time.
I got paid $24k a year (haha) to teach people a lot lazier than you what a loaded question is. Obviously, there's not a board of ethics on the Shroomery, but your questions wouldn't even get close to passing any type of review. You'd have a hard time getting on Family Feud with that lineup. If you want to formulate a reasonable survey, i.e. one that isn't setup for a predetermined bias, you will have to do some studying on how that's done.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
Posts: 32,557
Loc: California, US
Last seen: 4 months, 21 days
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: christopera]
#26875938 - 08/11/20 09:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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So spare us 5 minutes of your valuable time to show everyone how that question would look non-loaded.
My guess is we'll see lots of excuses why you won't do it, but prove me wrong.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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christopera
Stranger


Registered: 10/13/17
Posts: 14,201
Last seen: 1 minute, 48 seconds
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26875946 - 08/11/20 09:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
christopera said: Multiple videos! That doesn't mean shit. Anybody with the internet can go find a video that says the opposite (as usual, your confirmation bias is obvious).
So here's what you do. You tell him WHY you don't think his videos qualify as evidence, instead of trying to win by calling him names (I don't mean YOU specifically, I mean the general audience).
Quote:
christopera said: You come up with 35 videos where a person is annoyed with traffic and says something like "I don't support this cause because it made my commute long" and you'll have something, or well, a little bit of something. As is, you have videos of people being annoyed. That's it. It doesn't even prove that they are against BLM or Antifa, or any other movement, it just proves that in the moment they are annoyed.
Did you say that when the video was first posted?
It's obvious why his videos don't qualify. I already said it. He hasn't posted a single one that actually speaks to his point, instead they are all his own confirmed version of what he narrates.
Why would I say it when he first posted? It's a lot easier to let him flail beneath his thinly veiled dislike for those who exercise their 1st amendment right. He has two posts on the matter already.
Also, your questions are loaded because they are. It's that simple.
I make a lot of points and it sounds like you're trying to conflate one point with another.
Nope, I didn't conflate one bit of your argument. The thesis, while evolving on your own behalf, is pretty clear. That being, let's paint the protesters bad in any light you can find. You've not once attempted to say something reasonable about exercising first amendment rights (as are protected by like the first one). So, I can go pick out a video that shows a behavior that I need to confirm my bias for every single video you pick, but I'm not going to do that because it proves nothing. It's that simple. You're YouTube fact finding self-stimulation is cheap and infantile. Your entire thesis was designed to prove you right, not an intellectually honest venture, this is by your own admission when you said "you know which side of the argument I am on".
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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christopera
Stranger


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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26875948 - 08/11/20 09:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: So spare us 5 minutes of your valuable time to show everyone how that question would look non-loaded.
My guess is we'll see lots of excuses why you won't do it, but prove me wrong. 
No. You're a smart guy, figure it out.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
Stranger



Registered: 03/16/05
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26875976 - 08/11/20 09:42 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not smart enough to figure out why an honest question is a loaded one.
Would anyone else here like to see what this question would look like non-loaded, from a guy who claims to teach this stuff?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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christopera
Stranger


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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26875982 - 08/11/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: I'm not smart enough to figure out why an honest question is a loaded one.
If you say so, I personally believe otherwise.
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Would anyone else here like to see what this question would look like non-loaded, from a guy who claims to teach this stuff?
I'm definitely not getting paid to teach you. These days I charge $1200 a day by the way. Feel free to PM for payment details.
-------------------- Enjoy the process of your search without succumbing to the pressure of the result. A Dorito is pizza, change my mind. Bank and Union with The Shroomery at the Zuul on The internet - now with %'s and things I’m sorry it had to be me.
Edited by christopera (08/11/20 09:46 PM)
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