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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26870170 - 08/08/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Yes, I previously said it seemed clear that the guy wanted to get out of there quickly after he got attacked. Should he have let them continue to bash his truck in, or should he have had the clarity of mind to do a safe three point turn to get the truck pointed in the other direction? If I were in his shoes, I'd have been pretty scared if my windows were being bashed in.
Explain how that isn't you claiming to know the drivers intent.
The debate was about whether the guy had an intent to run anyone over. I don't think any of us know.
If you're asking about intent about whether or not the guy wanted to get out of there or not after being attacked, I think that was pretty clear, was it not?
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Vahn421
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: ballsalsa] 1
#26870210 - 08/08/20 02:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
ballsalsa said: I said that it was justified under principles of self defense.
Morality aside, rationally it's foolish to believe this. Cars are basically mini-tanks. You can't "attack" them to defend yourself. If they want to harm you, they will harm you. They will not stop.
Furthermore, rationally speaking, any aggressor is GOING to be aggressive, but any passive person who was not going to be aggressive is LIKELY to BECOME aggressive.
In other words, if increasing the probability of group-preservation of your goal, you're literally shooting yourself in the fucking foot by attacking cars that have not shown to be aggressive. Odd are that if they wanted to fuck you up they already would be and little humans wouldn't even get a god damn chance to pop a tire or break glass. The GOOD people... the CIVIL people stop, and then you fuck their car up, they panic, and drive away potentially injuring people.
This is what I mean by contemptible backwards thinking. I completely disagree morally still that Antifa and the rioters were justified in attacking the truck, but RATIONALLY you can't escape the points I've laid out. This isn't self-defense, it's just idiocy.
Conclusion: Antifa is inciting more violence and destruction by getting non-aggressive cars to act more aggressively. What else is fucking new?
Edited by Vahn421 (08/08/20 02:48 PM)
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Vahn421
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26870234 - 08/08/20 03:04 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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As an addendum, I really want to know what Antifa and the Rioters thought was gonna happen next. "Guys, we'll pop his tire and break his glass so he can't..."
So he can't WHAT? Drive away fast, likely in a panic?
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 1
#26870250 - 08/08/20 03:20 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said: Yes, I previously said it seemed clear that the guy wanted to get out of there quickly after he got attacked. Should he have let them continue to bash his truck in, or should he have had the clarity of mind to do a safe three point turn to get the truck pointed in the other direction? If I were in his shoes, I'd have been pretty scared if my windows were being bashed in.
Explain how that isn't you claiming to know the drivers intent.
The debate was about whether the guy had an intent to run anyone over. I don't think any of us know.
If you're asking about intent about whether or not the guy wanted to get out of there or not after being attacked, I think that was pretty clear, was it not? 
The discussion was about you holding other people to a standard of 'make believe' that you don't hold yourself to. Your "make believe" (as you're so wont to say) about knowing the "intent about whether or not the guy wanted to get out of there or not after being attacked" is exactly that - make believe.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26870255 - 08/08/20 03:24 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Vahn, so what exactly is your solution to fascist terrorists targeting protests with vehicular attacks? Because it sounds a whole lot like you suggest we capitulate to the fascist terrorists by fearfully avoiding any circumstances that could possibly result in a vehicle attack.
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Vahn421
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26870256 - 08/08/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn, so what exactly is your solution to fascist terrorists targeting protests with vehicular attacks?
Let's start by identifying how often they actually happen. People usually ask me for evidence. I'm asking you to provide it first so we can establish a baseline of frequency of occurrence.
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26870263 - 08/08/20 03:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
There have been at least 66 incidents of cars driving into protesters from May 27 to July 6, including 59 by civilians and seven by law enforcement, according to Ari Weil, a terrorism researcher at the University of Chicago's Project on Security and Threats.
There have been two fatalities – in Seattle and in Bakersfield, California – and at least 24 of the civilian cases have been charged by law enforcement, Weil said.
Weil said that by analyzing news coverage, court documents and patterns of behavior – such as when people allegedly yelled slurs at protesters or turned around for a second hit – he determined that at least 19 of the 59 civilian incidents were malicious and four were not. Weil said he did not have enough information to classify the motives of the remaining 36 incidents.
Drivers are hitting protesters as memes of car attacks spread
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Kryptos
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26870275 - 08/08/20 03:46 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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ISIS suggested ramming attacks for the budget Jihadi a couple years back.
Why would we be surprised when Vanilla ISIS follows their footsteps?
Quote:
‘As the Crusaders continue to wage their vicious campaign on the lands of Islam, they are constantly reminded of the painful reality that [their fight against Islam] will be met with . . . vehicles that unexpectedly mount their busy sidewalks, smashing into crowds, crushing bones, and severing limbs.”
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‐In a bid to ensure utmost carnage upon the enemies of Allah, it is imperative that one does not exit his vehicle during the attack. Rather, he should remain inside . . . until it becomes physically impossible to continue by vehicle. At this stage, one may exit the vehicle and finish his operation on foot.
‐Having a secondary weapon, such as a gun or a knife, is also a great way to combine a vehicle attack with other forms of attacks.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26870277 - 08/08/20 03:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: The discussion was about you holding other people to a standard of 'make believe' that you don't hold yourself to. Your "make believe" (as you're so wont to say) about knowing the "intent about whether or not the guy wanted to get out of there or not after being attacked" is exactly that - make believe.
As I explained in another post, you can't have 100% certainty about intent. Do I know with 100% certainty that the guy wanted to get out of there after being attacked? No. But it seemed pretty clear to me from the video that that's what the guy wanted to do. That's why I asked " I think that was pretty clear, was it not?"
You're right, I can't KNOW with 100% certainty that's why the guy raced out of there; maybe he remembered he was late for a dinner party. There are other possibilities.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Kryptos
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26870283 - 08/08/20 03:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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It seems that the best way to have people defend your actions which committing acts of violence is to put yourself into a situation where the logical outcome is violence, and then commit violence in an effort to escape the situation you put yourself in.
Then you just have to play dumb, and hope that everybody else buys it.
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koods
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26870298 - 08/08/20 04:11 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
Vahn, so what exactly is your solution to fascist terrorists targeting protests with vehicular attacks?
Let's start by identifying how often they actually happen. People usually ask me for evidence. I'm asking you to provide it first so we can establish a baseline of frequency of occurrence.
I posted an article recently citing 19 car attacks on protesters during the month of June
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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Vahn421
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: koods]
#26870304 - 08/08/20 04:16 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Vahn421 said:
Quote:
Vahn, so what exactly is your solution to fascist terrorists targeting protests with vehicular attacks?
Let's start by identifying how often they actually happen. People usually ask me for evidence. I'm asking you to provide it first so we can establish a baseline of frequency of occurrence.
I posted an article recently citing 19 car attacks on protesters during the month of June
The Provo, UT shooting (my old hometown) occurred in June. Can you re-link the article? I am very curious how they are counting these.
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Edited by Vahn421 (08/08/20 04:17 PM)
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Vahn421]
#26870327 - 08/08/20 04:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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This article is written by the person themselves and goes into some detail on the recent proliferation of vehicle attacks and what got certain incidents qualified as malicious attacks: Ari Weil: Protesters hit by cars recently highlight a dangerous far-right trend in America
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shivas.wisdom
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26870336 - 08/08/20 04:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: The discussion was about you holding other people to a standard of 'make believe' that you don't hold yourself to. Your "make believe" (as you're so wont to say) about knowing the "intent about whether or not the guy wanted to get out of there or not after being attacked" is exactly that - make believe.
As I explained in another post, you can't have 100% certainty about intent. Do I know with 100% certainty that the guy wanted to get out of there after being attacked? No. But it seemed pretty clear to me from the video that that's what the guy wanted to do. That's why I asked " I think that was pretty clear, was it not?"
You're right, I can't KNOW with 100% certainty that's why the guy raced out of there; maybe he remembered he was late for a dinner party. There are other possibilities.
So since we've established that the intent of both groups isn't known, let's give both groups the benefit of the doubt and analyze their actions:
If we assume neither groups were acting maliciously, the drivers response to a perceived threat of physical harm (driving forward into a crowd instead of reversing) recklessly endangered the lives of multiple people; the protesters response to a perceived threat of physical harm consisted of property destruction consistent with that required to disable a vehicle.
Do you dispute this depiction?
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DontFearThePeepr



Registered: 11/21/05
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26870424 - 08/08/20 06:08 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I mean, can't they just figure alternate routes to where they're going? I'd have to guess that's an option at least some of the time lol. No, let's just jump to vehicular manslaughter. That's a justifiably civilized line of thinking for the situation.
-------------------- It's only the strongest people who will actually help
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: shivas.wisdom]
#26870425 - 08/08/20 06:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said:
Quote:
There have been at least 66 incidents of cars driving into protesters from May 27 to July 6, including 59 by civilians and seven by law enforcement, according to Ari Weil, a terrorism researcher at the University of Chicago's Project on Security and Threats.
There have been two fatalities – in Seattle and in Bakersfield, California – and at least 24 of the civilian cases have been charged by law enforcement, Weil said.
Weil said that by analyzing news coverage, court documents and patterns of behavior – such as when people allegedly yelled slurs at protesters or turned around for a second hit – he determined that at least 19 of the 59 civilian incidents were malicious and four were not. Weil said he did not have enough information to classify the motives of the remaining 36 incidents.
Drivers are hitting protesters as memes of car attacks spread
Ok. And how many tens of thousands of cars have driven past protesters holding signs? The pictures in your article shows protesters standing on sidewalks with cars driving by in the street.
Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: Since we've established that the intent of both groups isn't known, let's give both groups the benefit of the doubt and analyze their actions:
If we assume neither groups were acting maliciously, the drivers response to a perceived threat of physical harm (driving forward into a crowd instead of reversing) recklessly endangered the lives of multiple people; the protesters response to a perceived threat of physical harm consisted of property destruction consistent with that required to disable a vehicle.
Do you dispute this depiction?
The odds of that the driver was going to run people over are what? Maybe 1 in 10,000 or so? (again, unless you have some evidence I haven't yet seen to share, then I'll easily change my mind)? Take your best guess. The odss that the driver was being attacked by the protesters were what? 99.99% or so? Take your best guess again.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: DontFearThePeepr]
#26870434 - 08/08/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
DontFearThePeepr said: I mean, can't they just figure alternate routes to where they're going? I'd have to guess that's an option at least some of the time lol. No, let's just jump to vehicular manslaughter. That's a justifiably civilized line of thinking for the situation.
Where there signs telling cars to take a detour? As I've said before, that would clearly make a difference. Otherwise, they can assume they'll get through if the protesters step aside.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03]
#26870440 - 08/08/20 06:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Protesters can now preemptively attack vehicles on public streets because of few of them attempted to run them over in the past. Yeah, that's justifiable 'self defense'. 
I'm sorry, if you're too much of a pussy to protest on the public streets without attacking vehicles because of paranoia, you have no business being out there in the first place.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: qman]
#26870443 - 08/08/20 06:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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qman
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Re: Is there ANY good argument for blocking traffic? [Re: Falcon91Wolvrn03] 2
#26870450 - 08/08/20 06:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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They should be at the homes of CEO's, billionaires, members of Congress, state representatives, MSM whores, Wall Street Banksters and the rest of the scum bags. Why the hell are they protesting on the city streets where the other peasants live?
Wonderful, convince some broke ass white people that the system is corrupt. What an accomplishment.
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