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gabbk
Metta cultivator



Registered: 03/06/20
Posts: 453
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Can not understand something particular on cloning process
#26859895 - 08/02/20 11:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hi guys. I've been reading tons of previous discussions on this, but still can't understand the following: I took a nice fruit which I liked from an MS grow and made it clone A. That went straight to agar, grain and then fruited it. From that clone A I took a clone B (bigger and denser than A) to agar; and now I'm planning to fruit it and select a bigger fruit than B and make it clone C. The plan is keep doing this until getting some really dense and big fruits. Let's hypothetically say it's achieved at around clone H or I (eight or ninth generation). So what I'm doing here -from my understanding, and please correct me if I'm wrong- is narrowing down genetics from a single clone in a straight run. I mentioned this some months ago and was suggested to print and start from spores in between every clone sample. Why is that necessary? Why someone can't do it in just a straight run but just in order to prevent senescence issues and 'stabilize' genetics make print in the middle like in fifth generation or so and save lot of time? (all those weeks waiting for spores to germinate in between clones)
Why wouldn't this be viable?
Thanks in advance
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Can not understand something particular on cloning process [Re: gabbk]
#26860051 - 08/03/20 05:34 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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You're getting better at conditions not really narrowing anything down. Maybe a little but cloning a clone is bad practice
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gabbk
Metta cultivator



Registered: 03/06/20
Posts: 453
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Re: Can not understand something particular on cloning process [Re: bodhisatta]
#26860173 - 08/03/20 07:22 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ohhh... Okay. But what's the theory behind on being it a bad practice about what I'm saying? Wouldn't someone be doing essentially the same thing but with the difference that with the latter plan saves lots of weeks?
And another really important question. Doing the former plan (printing and start from spores in between each clone) is also considered cloning a clone? I think the lack of that notion is where it could be the point of my confusion
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KuroNeko
Mycelium Tycoon


Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 150
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Re: Can not understand something particular on cloning process [Re: bodhisatta]
#26860271 - 08/03/20 08:28 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would also like to know. Can you elaborate on this or refer to threads explaining this?
My current understanding is that with a tissue going to agar and then to spawn and fruiting again we work with narrow genetic material. Isn't it that spores 'reset' that narrow genetic material and start trait lottery again?
At least in layman terms can you describe what's going on please?
-------------------- English not my native language, please excuse grammar.
 
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: Can not understand something particular on cloning process [Re: KuroNeko]
#26860517 - 08/03/20 10:41 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Its like doing g2g a bunch of times. You should save your master culture or clone A so that you can go back to fresh genetics. If you keep cloning a clone you're just ending up with mycelium more towards the end of the road
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trubblesome
Stranger



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Re: Can not understand something particular on cloning process [Re: bodhisatta]
#26860703 - 08/03/20 12:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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yeah, the genetic material is exactly the same across grows in the OP situation, the only reason the fruits are getting better is that you're getting better at growing. If you want more dense meatier fruits, go back to multi spore by printing the clone you like, and with your new found skills find a denser, meatier fruit to clone from that grow. It will share some of the genetics, but not all, as the original, because spore production in the fruiting body through meiosis is how genetic diversity is introduced - two hyphae come together, share genetic material, and then scramble it all up and split it up again to make spores. The mushroom (the fruiting body) and therefore the clone grows according to the DNA blueprint of those two hyphae. Each clone will produce billions of unique spores with unique DNA when you print them, but if you simply clone, each fruit will have the same DNA as the last, and each time you reclone the culture degrades. That's why starting again from spores is considered hitting a "reset" button.
So if you find one you like from the MS from from printing your clone, and grow that clone out and like the way it fruits too, save the dish you inoculated with so you can go back to it when you want to grow it again, rather than using a fruit from that harvest - the more generations you get away from that dish, the more the mycelium and DNA degrades (google senescence).
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KuroNeko
Mycelium Tycoon


Registered: 05/19/20
Posts: 150
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Re: Can not understand something particular on cloning process [Re: trubblesome]
#26860764 - 08/03/20 12:40 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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Thank you. Understood.
-------------------- English not my native language, please excuse grammar.
 
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gabbk
Metta cultivator



Registered: 03/06/20
Posts: 453
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Re: Can not understand something particular on cloning process [Re: KuroNeko]
#26861118 - 08/03/20 03:28 PM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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This hobby is wonderfully fascinating isn't it?
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Nichrome
I'm a torso!



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Re: Can not understand something particular on cloning process [Re: gabbk]
#26871279 - 08/09/20 09:46 AM (3 years, 5 months ago) |
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I clone clones all the time. Some have gone from clone to fruit that was cloned and made back into lc, then tested on agar and fruited in vitro and cloned again from that plate, fruited, and cloned again. Lots of varieties and different species. The only time they stop preforming well is when conditions are bad just like any other culture would. You can keep a good culture going for years like this just by taking available healthy tissue samples from whatever sample you have on hand. It's still the same culture (for the most part).
Like this guy here is a clone of a clone of a clone. This was originally from a AA+ culture that started expressing different traits.

The colony doesn't seem to change much. Cloning a giant fruit from a cloned clone doesn't seem to make bigger and bigger fruits IME. I have yet to witness a healthy culture get bored after years and years sometimes. The only times I go back to masters is when I want a different palate of traits to work with within a variety.
-------------------- “Better to be deprived of food for three days, than tea for one.”
Freedom is not the right to do as you please, but the liberty to do as you should. ~Emerson
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