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InvisibleWall.E
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Registered: 06/05/20
Posts: 2,860
Loc: Fungal Void
Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: Blue Helix]
    #26817786 - 07/11/20 04:47 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Blue Helix said:
One of the hardest things to make in pan cyans is the casing.  If you do not allow the substrate to colonize long enough, then the casing will be overtaken by overlay.  Overlay can partially or totally close the casing off to pin formation because pins only form at the interface between the casing and substrate.  An overlaid casing will yield at least 50% lower than a well-colonized one.  If it's heavily overlaid, you'll lose everything but a few tiny mushrooms.So what should you look for?

First an overlaid casing - note this is a result of not allowing the bags to colonize hard enough and/or not alowing the trays to sit long enough after they are laid before applying the casing:



Sometimes you'll get pins where the overlay isn't as bad, but you can forget a canopy of fruits for this pan cyans (cubes really don't care much) if you have overlay.  Let's look at some that have partial overlay with pins (failures):



A properly colonized bit of non-nutritive casing (if you put nutrients in it like coco coir forget it), looks like (and performs like) this:




So what's the difference?  There is a persistent myth this is purely a matter of genetics.  In my opinion and experience it's not just genetics, although they do, admittedly, cause a propensity to overlay.  In 2018 I proved to myself that even genes prone to overlay could produce high yields and dense pin sets if precautions were taken. 

So what what precautions?
  • If you colonize in a spawn bag, break up the substrate at 50% to 70%.  Allow the mycelium to well recolonize the bag.
  • If you colonize in a spawn bag, do not open it to lay the trays the day it appears fully colonized.  Give it between two and four more days. 
  • Once you lay the trays, put some toothpick-poked saran wrap over it an allow it to colonize at fruiting temperatures for 1 to 4 days.  You want it as colonized as it possibly can be without stalling it out.  During this phase, before you put the casing on, you want it to look like thick clouds of mycelium over the substrate.  The thicker the better.  Do NOT store the tray in low temperatures during this time.
  • After colonization, make sure you apply a non-nutritive casing.  Coco coir is NOT idea (a fact I proved in 2004 through a detailed side-by-side grow).  If you suspect something might have nutrients in it but can we rinsed out, rinse it out!
  • Provide an even casing (the more even the better; user a roller if you want) and allow it to colonize being very wet.  Keep it well hydrated.  Some folks even hand-mist it just up to the point little puddles form every day or other day.  I usually don't do this, but I do keep it very wet.
Just think of it this way: you are trying to get the mycelium to know it's finished with vegetative substrate growth by well colonizing the substrate.  That will trigger the casing colonization and pinning.
Hope this helps!!!




Thanks for this writeup!


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Offlinefaerie
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Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: Tmethyl] * 1
    #26819813 - 07/12/20 04:21 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

WOW How did I not find this until now?! Thank you :flowers:


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: faerie]
    #26819819 - 07/12/20 04:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

faerie said:
WOW How did I not find this until now?! Thank you :flowers:



It's been a work in progress for 7 years. :lol:

I'm still adding stuff to main post, so if you want to be a part, look through the main post, find what it's lacking, post some stuff and I'll add it in. :heart:


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OfflineKiloecho
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Re: How it should look - A GUIDE FOR NEW CULTIVATORS (under construction) [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26847366 - 07/27/20 08:30 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

This is SO helpful, thank you!!!


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OfflineYumyumyumyum
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Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26847605 - 07/27/20 10:35 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Great thread


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Invisiblebbhendrix
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Registered: 07/25/20
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Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26851061 - 07/29/20 02:52 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Appreciate it dude.


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OfflineTmethylM
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Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: bbhendrix]
    #26857781 - 08/01/20 08:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

:nodofunderstanding:


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¯\_(ツ)_/¯


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OfflineBlue Helix
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Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26858088 - 08/02/20 01:15 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

After one lays the substrate trays, I recommend covering them with tooth-pick-holed saran wrap from 1 to 4 days while keeping them a fruit-out temperature in the fruiting chamber.  This is to allow the substrate to fully colonize before it deals with the casing.  It also helps reduce or eliminate overlay, which is a yield killer.  Here's what the trays should look like before you case them.  Note that these are two very different substrates.  The one on the left is grain-heavy and the one on the right is my usual manure-heavy substrate.  Grain-heavy tends to have more mycelium puffs on the top, but the trays in both pictures are ready to case and start producing heavy mushroom flushes.



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OfflineGalendula
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Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26913385 - 09/02/20 08:53 AM (3 years, 4 months ago)

Im a nooob and iv joined just to say thankyou. Iv jumped straight in iv got bulk jars and some dodgy agar plates, grains and made a spore syringe. Its all f*@ked but its awesome, iv learnt so much already going through this post, i originally found it because my jars are fluffy and im thinking trich now im waiting, no green and its been a few days. Holding out hope but not really, enjoying the learning. Thank you again. Sorryto post, the thing says dont postunless its truly relevant, i guess itsnot but also you deserve a big thanks fromus noooobiesss. Soexcited for my next lot!

Oh and im laughing at myself because everytime people say cubes i somehow made up in my mind that they meant the cakes that had been dunked and rolled and then put into shfc so somehow changed from a cylinder to a cube... damn hahah im old but c'mon i coulda figured that one out haha thanks abreviation guide 😉


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InvisiblePillarsOfHappiness
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Registered: 10/17/20
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Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: Tmethyl]
    #26989494 - 10/17/20 02:38 AM (3 years, 3 months ago)

Amazing post. Thank you for the knowledge!


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OfflineRyu
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Help please! :) [Re: PillarsOfHappiness]
    #27026388 - 11/07/20 09:11 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Hi everyone!

I’m struggling with my Cubensis, hopefully someone can throw some light over here... I’m doing 50/50 coco coir/ horse manure substrate, it’s fully colonised but for some reason when I put to fruit I’m not getting any fruits, this has been for quite a while now and it getting very frustrating.

When I mange to have some fruits they are very deformed.

FAE is done several times a day (around 5), fruiting has been at 26 Celsius (77-80F)



http://www.shroomery.org/forums/thumbs/20-45/475652243-thumb_8036B681-6A37-43C7-A8E2-8EAB4E868067.jpg





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OfflineSenku
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Re: How it should & shouldn't look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE [Re: Tmethyl]
    #27053295 - 11/23/20 02:25 AM (3 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tmethyl said:

Mycelium breaking the surface of the substrate, in a monotub - Tmethyl








When myc breaks the surface of a mono tub, shouldn't there be water beads on the myc?

Or they will come after full colonization?


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OfflineWootwootjams
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Re: How it should look - A GUIDE FOR NEW CULTIVATORS (under construction) [Re: Senku]
    #27054601 - 11/23/20 08:30 PM (3 years, 2 months ago)

I never knew I could learn so much.


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OfflinePhony Phone

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Re: How it should look - A GUIDE FOR NEW CULTIVATORS (under construction) [Re: elkart]
    #27125439 - 01/04/21 07:15 AM (3 years, 24 days ago)



What about the blank spots on grain? When is it bacteria and when is it not?


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: How it should look - A GUIDE FOR NEW CULTIVATORS (under construction) [Re: Phony Phone]
    #27126242 - 01/04/21 02:00 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Post a pic that's not for ants, can probably give you a better synopsis.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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OfflinePhony Phone

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Re: How it should look - A GUIDE FOR NEW CULTIVATORS (under construction) [Re: Inocuole]
    #27126250 - 01/04/21 02:04 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

lmao i copied that pic from the OP


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: How it should look - A GUIDE FOR NEW CULTIVATORS (under construction) [Re: Phony Phone]
    #27126261 - 01/04/21 02:08 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)



So this one.  Those are from the grains pressed against the glass.  You can tell there's no bacteria because the mycelium isn't reacting like there is.  No slime.  No goo.  No weird morphology.


--------------------
                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

Coir-ca-cola
Jokes are funny until they're about you


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OfflinePhony Phone

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Re: How it should look - A GUIDE FOR NEW CULTIVATORS (under construction) [Re: Phony Phone]
    #27126267 - 01/04/21 02:10 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

alright, awesome. Watching myc expanding to grains is beautiful


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: How it should look - A GUIDE FOR NEW CULTIVATORS (under construction) [Re: Inocuole]
    #27126269 - 01/04/21 02:11 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

Yeah the growth pattern of the mycelium is more important, in this case it’s very healthy. If it looks like melted ice cream that’s a dead giveaway.


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OfflinePhony Phone

Registered: 09/19/20
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Re: How it should look - A GUIDE FOR NEW CULTIVATORS (under construction) [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #27126274 - 01/04/21 02:13 PM (3 years, 23 days ago)

I had some jars that ended up looking thickish marshmellowy, they also colonized faster than the rest of my jars and guess what, that tub trich'd, it didnt even look heavily bacterial but obviously the mycelium couldnt handle the stress.


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