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Offlinemerrybotanist
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First grow...Anxious and needing feedback...
    #26857533 - 08/01/20 04:32 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

First time grower here, and I am a compete ball of nerves over my mycelium health! I transferred my 6 brf cakes into my SGFC 6 days ago, and I feel like I’m dealing with a contam or possibly bruising from dehydration? I’ve spent hours every day doing research,, but I think I really need some direct feedback and guidance. I’m aware I’ve made a lot of mistakes throughout this process. I’m mostly wanting input on what you think is wrong with my cakes, and to see if you agree with the likely causes. Below is a detailed account of my experience so far, with bolded being what I think is most relevant in understanding my mycelium's current issues.

TLDR: Dry verm layer and substrate moisture content screwed up during sterilization in PC. Mycelium seemed to dry in jars, so was only give 2-5 days to consolidate after 100% colonization. 6 days after moving into my grow chamber, all cakes have some grey-ish areas on the mycelium and are not showing any signs of growth. Is this dehydration or contam? Pics of a few cakes from day 6 in fruiting chamber attached.



Inoculation and incubation:
- Jars were 250ml (1/2 pint) tall jars with 5 holes per lid (4 around edges, one in center) and filled with 2verm:1brf:1H20 mixture
- Lids and tinfoil on top of the substrate jars were not properly tightened/sealed during 70 minute sterilization in pressure cooker Jars were kept off the bottom of the pressure cooker with a silicone insert, but the bottom exterior of the jars had a light brown hazy coating that made me worry if they had still been scalded. The dry verm barrier in all jars became damp during pressure cooking, presumably due to the improperly sealing.
- 3ml spore solution were inoculated PER JAR (my nerves y’all), and micropore tape was placed over all of the lid holes.
- Jars were incubated in a closed plastic bin in a closet. Incubation temps for 1st week were 68-70 degrees F. A heater was placed into the closet after about a week which increased room temp to an average of 75-78 degrees F.
- Some  thin, white, fluffy growth (tomentose?) began as early as day 4 in some jars and progressed to white, ropey rhizomorphic over the next 2 weeks. The rhizomorphic growth was plump and strong at first but as time went on it seemed to thin. The mycelium never receded or stopped spreading, but the ropey growth lost its fullness and became a slightly translucent. At the same time as this mycelial ‘thinning,’  the cake started to shrink and move away from the jar walls, and condensation developed on the jar walls. The cake size and amount of condensation decreased throughout the rest of incubation.
- No other possible indications of contamination throughout incubation except for the mycelium looking thinner

Birthing and SGFC:
- All cakes reached 100% colonization at about 30 days. Jars were allowed to consolidate between 2-5 days before birthing. I know 7 days is the minimum for consolidation, but the cakes seemed like they were still losing moisture.
- Cakes were birthed easily and had a fresh, earthy, mushroom smell. They were dunked together for 24hrs in closed plastic container filled to the brim with chilled bottled water. Cakes seemed to be totally covered by water but were not deeply submerged.
- After dunking, the mycelium looked thicker and whiter again but still not great. Cakes were rinsed and then rolled in med/course verm and placed in jar lids filled with wet vermiculite put in the SGFC.
- SGFC constructed correctly with holes in 2im grid on all 6 sides and filled with 3-4in wet perlite. SGFC is on a desk, at least 8in from any wall, at window where it gets indirect sunlight, and raised 3-4in off table.
- At first the humidity would cycle between 85- 100% every couple of hours between misting. I was misting (the walls) and fanning about 4x a day.
- On day 2, I redid my set up because of concern about soaked verm the jars were resting on, and the perlite not properly draining. Cakes were rinsed, rerolled in verm,, and placed back in SGFC in empty  jar lids. Since then the humidity has been more consistently +95%. I have started misting cakes more directly instead of the walls.
- In the last 4 days, the cakes look like they have gotten smaller in size and have also developed a grey-ish hue in some areas. The grey area are flush with the mycelium and are not fuzzy or grainy. Since birthing the cakes do not smell mushroom-y,  but the chamber has a slightly sharp mineral-like scent (possibly from the wet perlite?). There has been no signs of any growth.
Considering the improper sterilization of the jars resulting in possible water loss and the dry verm filter being compromised, do you think this is contamination or dehydration?

If dehydration, should I redunk them? How long of a dunk?

If contam, are they still viable? How can I save them?



Thanks guys!


Edited by merrybotanist (08/01/20 09:38 PM)


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Offlinemerrybotanist
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26857536 - 08/01/20 04:38 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Okay..I’m technologically challenged and can’t figure out how to attach pics y’all...


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OfflineHalfGinger
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26857625 - 08/01/20 06:05 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yes pics will help. It sounds to me like your fine though. I worried like hell for my first grow, obsessing over every detail, which is good, because of your attention to detail. But it also takes a toll on you mentally because every small little change seems like it may ruin and sabatoage all of your work. Give it like 3-5 more days before starting to worry(a little), 4 days is a couple days early for me for knots or pins to show, and that’s after a full 7 days consolidation. My advice is to wait and keep at it, misting lightly 1-2 times a day, fanning sometimes. Your gonna be fine. Flushes will come brotha. They may not be textbook at first, but after a couple grows you’ll get it dialed in. Keep an eye for contams but don’t mess with them too too much. The “greying” that u see is normal. I’m assuming they just look a little dull. It happens. Until it’s like whoa something is way off there, your gonna flush out fine. But really try to get some pics up, they are worth 1000 words on here.


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OfflineAlsetAlokin
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26857651 - 08/01/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Press the mountain icon above the text box in which you type/edit your post. Upload photos to the site and copy the URL to share from there, most users will not view offsite photos or click on offsite links.


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Offlinemerrybotanist
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: HalfGinger]
    #26857879 - 08/01/20 09:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you so much for your input! That made me feel a lot better. I think I just needed someone to tell me to stop freaking lol.

Here are the pics! What do you think?

http://


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Offlinepesa
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26858028 - 08/01/20 11:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

1. you didnt made mistakes. you just learn things not to do in next grow.

2. find something to elevate jars. put them on steam rack and make sure boiling water does not hit the bottom of jars, it can crack the glass or cook the substrate. you can even use jar lids what ever keep them away from boiling water, steam and pressure sterilize boiling water will awlays cook substrate." light brown hazy coating " that will not happen if jars do not touch boiling water.

3.always tight your jars. they will never get pressurize since they got holes on the top the pressuer will always remain same inside and out side and glass will never break. after filling the jars tight them put micro pore tape and put aluminum foil then put them in pressure cooker. once cool remove the foil and inoculate. 

3. use only less than a ml per hole half a ml per jar. mushyboy once said you can use 1/4 of ml and still spores will germinate and grow. you need only a drop of spores. since each drop contains million of spores. the reason we use less spores is to avoid bacteria and less contaim. and shake the living hell out syringe before inoculation.

4. never use heater or heating pads or hot water bath for incubation. thats old misinformation and was debunk by RR a long time ago. the tempartuer you are looking for are between 21c or 70f and max at 27c or 80f in between is the right temperature for mycelium to grow. beyond 27c or 80f all hidden contams wake up. mycelium will grow delay its up to mycelium when to grow and stall, never freak out thats the way mycelium is. it knows when to grow and stall.

5. mycelium is ropey,rhizomorphic, fluffy. it depends on gentics and multi spore we get to see all kind of mycelium.

6. let the cakes sit 7 days and do not let your mind freak out and the let moisture levels drop and let them shrink further it will not hurt them because 7 days later they will be submerge in water for 24 to 30 hours and all moisture will be restore. the reason consolidation is important it avoids bacteria.

8. submerge the cakes completely use the glass jar put water in it and put it on top of the cake and make sure they remain underwater. if this step is not done properly and cakes are floating around they will never get fully hydrate and when go to fruiting chamber they will bruise blue in next 24 hours since they didnt got enough water to drink.

9. wash the perlite drain extra water and put in SGFC. put the cakes closer to each other and mist like its gentel rain all the tiny droplets of water should fell on cakes and keep misting 3 to 4 times a day. if verm looks dry mist it gently make it rain.

10. drain the extra water from perlite. bring all cakes together it helps the micro climate .cut the foil to size of cakes and use that. like pastywhyte said "those cakes are drying the hell out". at this point either you can keep up a routine of 3 to 4 times  a day of gentle rain mist and let them fruit which will take time. and after first flush and then submerge the cakes completely under water. do not need to mist the sides of fruiting chamber its the cakes you need to mist.

something to read before next grow
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8468474#8468474


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OfflineHalfGinger
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: pesa]
    #26858395 - 08/02/20 08:38 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

They look ok to me :-) the above list valuable information. They do look a little bruised. They will be fine. Just keep an eye on em so nothing changes green or black and you should be ok. Monitor the smell too. If it smells like, distinctively sour, then toss them. Being patient is the game now. Give us some updates when they start fruiting!!


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Offlinemerrybotanist
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: HalfGinger]
    #26859268 - 08/02/20 04:53 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Thank you pesa and halfginger! The feedback, tips, and encouragement and super helpful. For the first time since transferring into my FC I feel like I can breathe lol.

Also, I noticed what looks like some new growth on one of my cakes today? In the attached pic, it’s on the center right of the bottom of the cake. Is this pinning? If so, the pins are a lot larger than I imagined... I promise this will be my last question until I come back with a more substantial update!




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OfflineCrashTest
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Registered: 06/21/20
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26859507 - 08/02/20 06:49 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yes those are pins. I will say I’m new and I’ve had a few successful BRF cakes. One thing I’ve learned is that be careful about misting. You want the water that is retained in the vermiculite to evaporate which triggers pinning among other factors such as humidity and light. If you over mist, the pins may abort so be careful. What you are looking for is tiny droplets suspended on the surface of the myc, but not soaking the cake.

Looks good so far, less is more in my short experience


--------------------
:mushroom2: this account is automated, any posts related to activities or advice thereof are strictly opinions from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only - CrashTest2020:mushroom2:



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Offlinemerrybotanist
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: CrashTest]
    #26859588 - 08/02/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Hell yeah! Thanks CrashTest!

I think I have been possibly misting too often because I’m afraid of the cakes becoming too dry and bruising. I never soak them when misting though, only get them glistening. I’ve backed off a little with the misting today so we’ll see if that helps! Thanks again y’all, I’ll keep you updated!


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OfflineCrashTest
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26859747 - 08/02/20 09:03 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I over misted my first flush of cakes for the same reason, I got some fruits, but some aborted because my RH in the tub was 100% plus misting. Evaporation is a pinning trigger so let the tub do the work and only mist if it looks dry and mist from a few feet away just to rain the tiniest droplets down. Over misting can cause small fruits and aborts, some people don’t even need to mist for the first flush at all because they have their tub dialed in so well


--------------------
:mushroom2: this account is automated, any posts related to activities or advice thereof are strictly opinions from numerous online sites and are for informational purposes only - CrashTest2020:mushroom2:



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Offlinepesa
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26859878 - 08/02/20 11:21 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

1.those are looking nice. give them 8 to 9 days and you will get nice clusters going and more pins.

2. some pins will grow to full fruits. others will abort thats the way fruiting works not all pins will become fruits.

3. take a tweezer sterilize it with flame and pick aborts. aborts will look like black caps or gray caps. that helps the cake to produce more pins

4. for now relax and let the cakes fruit. you are doing fine:mushroom2:


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OfflineHalfGinger
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: pesa]
    #26860160 - 08/03/20 07:16 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Oh yea. It has begun. Enjoy the fruits of your labor once ready and welcome to your new obsession lol more pics as they grow!! Show us those pinsets!!


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Offlinemerrybotanist
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: HalfGinger]
    #26867429 - 08/06/20 10:01 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Okay, back with an update and in need of more advice if you can tolerate me...

I have a lot more pins popping up on the tops of my cakes, but my cakes are looking dry as hell and bruising even more. The first pins are continuing to grow steadily but slowly and maybe don't look the best? These are my 3 b+ cakes, and I feel like the the caps and stipes of the large ones are darker brown than they should be, and that their shape may be a little off. As far as I can tell, nothing has aborted yet.

They have been in the SGFC for 11 days now, with the first pins appearing almost 5 days ago. I'm misting and fanning 2-3 times a day, and only mist if the fine droplets from the previous time have evaporated. Humidity has remained between 90-100% most of the time, with it dropping to 85% once or twice.

Let me know what you think, and most importantly if they aren't looking good, what you'd recommend?

Thanks guys!

1st pic - show new pin set
2nd pic - growth of first pins that I originally posted in thread
3rd pic - best example of the coloration of more mature fruits.



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OfflineHalfGinger
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26867652 - 08/07/20 05:02 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Those look good to me. Don’t expect every one of those pins to fully mature though. The caps are dark brown like that until a couple hours before the open up. When the color starts to change, that’s when I’m on the lookout for the veil tearing from the cap(perfect time to pick). I think your cakes look fine. They are going to look dry, you want that more than looking too wet. They are growing slowly but sometimes they do that. I say just keep doing what your doing... though if it were me- for the second flush get them off of those lids and put them on foil “plates” that are basically the same diameter of the cakes themselves. This will allow humid airflow from the perlite underneath to really lick the cakes as it flows up to trigger more pins. But I wouldn’t do that until after they are done with this flush. :-)


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Offlinepesa
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26867726 - 08/07/20 06:41 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

you doing great. nothing to worry about. after first flush is finish dunk the cakes for 24 hours and back to fruiting chamber. blue busing was expected.


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Offlinemerrybotanist
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: HalfGinger]
    #26867768 - 08/07/20 07:26 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Ugh, thank you so much. You two are the best!

I hadn’t come across any info about the cap changing color shortly before the veil breaks, so that’s super useful. I’ll definitely do a 24hr dunk after the first flush and switch to tin foil for my second.

One more question now if you don’t mind...

I have 3 PE cakes in the same SGFC. They are looking healthy yet dry, and there has been no activity from them so far (as I expected after realizing how ill suited the strain is for this tek). I’d like to find a way to get something from them, though.

I’ve seen mini monotub/shoebox teks that use brf cakes to bulk. All the examples obviously show birthing cakes directly to the monotub, but I swear I read advice somewhere that I can take my unsuccessful PE brf cakes from my SGFC, grate them up, and use them to make a mini mono. Of course my searches are turning up nothing now, but that may just be because I haven’t mastered the search function yet...

Do you know anything about this? How would you recommend I move forward with these PE cakes (redunk at 14 days and wait it out, toss cakes, try converting to monotub, etc)?


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Offlinetgriff02
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26868097 - 08/07/20 10:37 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

All of my PE are still in colonization so I have no practical experience, but the general consensus SEEMS to be that PE does not do well in cakes. Yes you can grate them up and mix them into a coir+verm substrate in shoebox and give them a full casing of the coir to protect the humidity. Might do better that way, that's what I intend on doing.


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OfflineHalfGinger
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: tgriff02]
    #26868145 - 08/07/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I have never done PE or shoeboxes. My expertise is limited to golden teachers, B+, and huautla from cakes, suits my needs well enough. But I would assume from what I have read, shoebox would be the way to go using brf.


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Offlinepesa
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Re: First grow...Anxious and needing feedback... [Re: merrybotanist]
    #26869330 - 08/08/20 12:05 AM (3 years, 5 months ago)

1. B+ changes it color during growing but your B+ got nice colors and no worries.

2. PE in my experience is slow fruiting and slow colonization time. well

3. you can wait on them and relax.

4. or you can dunk them and put them back in fruiting chamber.

5. bulk is easy if you follow the tek and stick with it.

here is something to read on if you chose to go bulk

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/24945782


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