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Offlinetregar
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Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step * 1
    #26856505 - 08/01/20 12:33 AM (3 days, 5 hours ago)

To test the 1992 adducts study: LSD blotters can theoretically be converted at home into 1-acetaldehyde LSD or basically equivalent to what ALD-52 is in one step, see sample super highly visual & aesthetic reports in notes (16) and (17):

Dissolve LSD blotter(s) in 1 shot of cold sherry wine (contains 10mg acetaldehyde) with 5 drops of peppermint extract (contains 2 mg water soluble acetaldehyde & isovaleraldehyde & their corresponding acids) for 3 hours in fridge, with swirling once per hour. Researchers achieved 100% new adduct product in 1.5 hour. The sherry is already at ph=4, so no acidic solution needs to be made, like study calls for. They used a stir mantle in fridge, so recommend 3 hours sitting in fridge if not stirring, just hand swirl once an hour.

ALD-52 is know to be even more visual, conceptual & aesthetic compared to the more analytical and less aesthetic LSD, also more forgiving and relaxing mentally compared to LSD which produced brain waves associated with intense concentration & anxiety, reports from Sandoz labs.

Why is ALD-52 possibly more aesthetic than LSD? The adrenal receptors are hit heavily by natural entheogens like mescaline, Ayahuasca with caapi, shrooms, and are believed by some to be responsible for alot of the "aesthetics/euphoria/appreciation of beauty" feeling activity that is experienced while tripping. It is quite possible that ALD-52 agonizes all 3 of the adrenal receptors A2A, A2B, and A2C.

Mescaline for example binds to A2C with "off the chart" rating of 4.00 (max). Anyone who has ever dreamed cactus knows the appreciation for beauty is "thru the roof". See chart below.

LSD only agonizes adrenal A2A (as far as adrenal receptors, see chart below).

See last post #15 of "Potent LSH & penniclavine fresh from morning glory vine & relation to ancient Greece"

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26838327

The Aztecs and Mayans were known to add the extract from morning glory seeds (same exact alkaloid profile as the Greek claviceps paspali) to a drink containing alcohol (note 2). We know that sherry wine contains average 10mg acetaldehyde per 30ml or shot glass. The Aztecs and Mayans apparently knew about the acetaldehyde adducting properties of wine and alcohol, which as shown in the 1992 adducts study (note 6) will cause acetaldehyde to adduct onto the bottom NH group on the indole of LSH and penniclavine forming something more akin to looking like ALD-52, (at least bottom indole wise).

The table from Sandoz suggested that ALD-52 might actually have advantages over LSD, reducing any side effects but achieving a stronger trip. Measurements of brain waves while people were taking the two drugs showed that while LSD produced brain waves associated with intense concentration and anxiety, ALD produced brain waves showing a more relaxed mental state. Sample ALD-52 trip reports given in (note 16) and (note 17).

LSA (C16 H17 N3 O) + acetaldehyde (C2 H4 O) at bottom indole NH group = 1-acetaldehyde LSA
LSH (C18 H21 N3 O) + acetaldehyde (C2 H4 O) at bottom indole NH group = 1-acetaldehyde LSH
LSD (C20 H25 N3 O) + acetal (C2 H3 O) at bottom indole NH group = 1-acetal LSD (C22 H27 N3 O2) or ALD-52

2016 Polish morning glory study found 3x higher amounts of LSH in MG seeds direct from grower/producer vs retail (note 7):
Quote:

fresh black seeds from vine: likely 5.00 LSH to 5.00 penniclavine ratio
seeds direct from growers: 1.71 LSH to 5.08 penniclavine ratio
seeds off retail racks: 0.54 LSH to 4.75 penniclavine ratio



Note (2) Page 515 "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" Christian Ratsch: "The fresh or dried morning glory seeds normally are added to alcoholic drinks (sugarcane liquor; c. alcohol), tepache (maize beer, chicha), and balche' (Schultes 1941, 37).

Note (6) 1992 adducts study: hxxps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC49935/ Page 8441 "Reaction of Indole with Acetaldehyde: A 0.2% solution of indole in equal amounts of water, ethanol, and acetaldehyde formed a product with 60% yield after 1 hour of reaction at ambient temperature. Omitting the ethanol (50% acetaldehyde in water mixture) had no effect. Decreasing the concentration of acetaldehyde to 0.1% increased the reaction rate and percent yield of product." See pic of the researchers's indole + acetaldehyde adduct product formed at bottom of this post ---> ie before (page 8439) and after (page 8441).

The researchers achieved a new product with or without the use of ethanol, it made no difference, you only need ph=4 acidified water and around a 0.1% acetaldehyde solution."

Note (15) Breakdown of water soluble acetaldehyde & isovaleraldehyde (and their corresponding acids) in peppermint extract: 1mg standard is equivalent to .001ml, 5 drops used in recipe = .25ml, .25ml = 250mg identified compounds, alcohol percent of peppermint extract = 91% alcohol so then 250mg x 0.9% = 23mg leftover of compounds, assuming 9% of this is the acetaldehyde/isovaleraldehyde & their corresponding acids, [see paper "Chemical Composition and Biological Activities of Mentha Species by Brahmi"] then approximately 2mg exists in 5 drops.

Note (16) Sample ALD-52 trip report #1:

"Had the chance in dreams to try ALD-52 around 10 years ago twice, and the blotter had diagrams of the ALD-52 molecule on the back of the blotter, and both times found the 300ug trips experienced in dreams to be PROFOUNDLY VISUAL, remember looking at a living woman's face and seeing it covered & overlayed with colored hieroglyphic symbols. The trip was very strong visually and yet found it relaxed and potently humorous, laughed for at least an hour watching episodes of "Funny or die" at the time.

Also remember seeing a group of Indian Shaman's sitting in a circle floating in mid-air when I walked into the bedroom, potent visuals...miss ALD-52, but the recipe above will transform the morning glory seed's LSH and LSA into similar molecules at least at the bottom indole NH group, which helps significantly in achieving a visually strong trip, sounds are amplified and music heavenly, strong audio heightening qualities, euphoric & stimulating yet relaxed journeys.

Anything longer than around the length of an acetaldehyde molecule (C2 H4 O) attached at the NH indole of the ergoline LSD molecule (especially 1-p-LSD, propionyl = C3 H5 O) may not fit properly into the very specific receptor binding site (as ALD-52 fits, acetyl = C2 H3 O), so cinnamaledehyde (C9 H8 O) and similar very long structures may not have a chance of docking into the receptor site properly."

Note (17) Sample ALD-52 trip report #2:

hxxps://www.reddit.com/r/LSD/comments/4yn8ou/highly_underestimated_ald52/

"Yes, I realize it's not technically LSD but really, it might as well be. I took 300ug thinking it would be mild if anything. Granted it wasn't as intense mentally as LSD can sometimes be, but conceptually and aesthetically it is beautiful beyond anything I ever anticipated. I feel perfect. At one. Better than I've felt in so long. I thought I could never trip again on anything but this is honestly paradigm changing for me. ALD-52 should be considered just as powerful as LSD-25 although it's a lot more relaxed and somewhat forgiving. As it is probably apparent I'm still very deep into this experience and I hope this to be an open discussion to anyone who would like to be involved.

My god, I just went through multiple ego death experiences beyond anything I've ever experienced from LSD before. There are no words. I mean there are plenty of "words" but none of them mean a single thing compared to any of THAT. Dear GOD. I never expected anything like this, but I sure as hell needed it. Even if I'm the only one here to express it to, as that's realistically the truth of nature anyhow. However, anyone who felt compelled to actually read through all this insanity, I just want you to know you're beautiful and you are everything. All things are right and they always will be.

Anyway, as far as the ALD-52, I took 300ug as I said. It was amazing and stronger than I expected, however I don't think 100ug would be very eventful to be perfectly honest. If you're concerned about it being too strong 200 might be worth it but 300 was really a great amount if you ask me. Even if you haven't taken any lysergamides before ALD-52 is rather calm compared to LSD or even mushrooms for the most part. Visually though, at least for me, it was absolutely breathtaking. Colors and textures were shifting like crazy.

Everything was alive and magical. Patterns were forming everywhere. I could lose myself so easily as the visuals seemed to drag my focus in without any effort. As a result, ego death was basically automatic and I reached that point multiple times. The first time I ever experienced ego death on LSD it left me with this beautiful feeling, like a deep inner glow that lasted for months afterwards. It eventually faded and I hadn't felt anything quite like it in years, but ALD-52 brought it back, and I feel like I've awakened from a spiritual coma.

Another thing is LSD sometimes causes my mind to wander uncontrollably unless I take my own initiative to focus, especially during the come up which can also sometimes fill me with restless confusion. Once I peak everything usually evens out, but ALD-52 put me in a state of perfect clarity from beginning to end. The come up was so smooth and comfortable.

I didn't notice the come down because I actually went to sleep when I felt like it was time to do so, which was an interesting surprise. Every time I've taken LSD I've had to let it run its entire course before even attempting to sleep. Often I would have to stay up for the entire day after which is obviously physically and mentally exhausting. But once I felt like the ALD-52 had made its point I went to sleep just like any other day, and woke up the next morning fully rested and mentally clear.

Overall, it felt very natural and I never had a single moment of uncomfortability or confusion. Just pure psychedelic bliss. I mean, I've had some amazing and extremely important experiences on LSD but honestly after the other night, think I prefer ALD-52. It felt like tripping for the first time again."

Note (27) Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
hxxp://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0009019
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max (off the charts), 0.00=min
Quote:

LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (make up >80% of brain 5-ht)
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69 (sensual & entactogenic)
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69 (novelty, newness)
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2a)
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2b)
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2c)



Explanation of 5-ht1a receptors:

As we go thru day to day life, the 5-ht1a brain serotonin filters (gates, or day to day survival filters as I like to call them) which make up over 80% of brain 5-ht are in place so that we will not be overwhelmed by the perception of the way things would appear to an un-filtered mind, or "Mind at Large" as Aldous Huxley describes it in "Doors of Perception" as "infinite or eternal". He also referred to the visions as coming from "the other world" in his book "Moksha". I prefer to think of it in similar terms as well "the spirit world" or "the other world". Huxley referred to normal day to day mind state as the "reducing valve" due to it's filtering.

5-ht1a inhibition by entheogens (in green above) theoretically cause this filter system to be lifted, and the infinite mind to manifest in combination with oral dmt from traditional psychotria for example with the caapi and/or harmalas providing the 5-ht1a inhibition, just as bufotenine in snuff's provide the 5-ht1a inhibition combined with the dmt in the snuff's, resulting in a 3 hour experience ie both examples of Teamwork on how these entheogens are used traditionally in the Amazon.

Thomas S. Ray's study shows a value of 3.57 at SERT for Ibogaine (4.00 is max). Ibogaine has been shown to inhibit serotonin transporter (SERT) noncompetitively, in contrast to all other known inhibitors, which are competitive with substrate. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters, it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor. Tetrahydroharmine (THH) is a serotonin reuptake inhibitor, it is an SRI found in caapi. In other words, both are strong serotonin reuptake inhibitors which inhibit over 80% of brain 5-ht at 5-ht1a.

Dr. Nichols (LSD scientist): "LSD has very strong potency in blocking the action of serotonin. The morpholide lysergamide cousin had only about 1/10th the potency in blocking serotonin. Of the 5 diferent dialkylamides we studied LSD was the most potent and specific serotonin antagonist."

Dr. Nichols "5-ht1a makes up >80% of brain 5-ht...5-ht1a agonism blocks serotonin."

Serotonin blocking is a main effect of all the natural oral entheogens like the semi-synthetic LSD, mescaline, Ayahuasca, mushrooms, 5-meo-dmt & bufotenine (found in snuffs). See 2011 receptorome chart above. Ibogaine inhibits both serotonin and dopamine reuptake transporters (it is an SDRI or serotonin & dopamine reuptake inhibitor).

An example of the importance of adding the serotonin reuptake inhibition properties of 5-meo-dmt for example to dmt (which totally lacks 5-ht1 reuptake properites on it's own) is shown below. This is the same way the snuff's are used in the amazon, as they naturally combine dmt with additives which cause the reuptake of 5-ht like bufotenin for example, this results in a 3 hour experience from the snuff's.

Oroc's experiment of combining 5-meo-dmt with DMT sounds imho very much like a short beautiful transcendental Ayahuasca experience, from his book "Tryptamine Palace":

DMT + tiny amounts of 5-meo-dmt, perhaps similar theoretically to Amazonian snuffs which have a makeup of 7.4% bufotenin (potent 5-ht1a agonist), 0.04% 5-MeO-DMT (potent 5-ht1a agonist) & 0.16% DMT (zero potency as 5-ht1a agonist):

James Oroc "Tryptamine Palace":
Quote:

As an experiment (and in a foreign land) I smoked the last of the Bufo alvarius venom (the story of whose collection is described within the pages of Tryptamine Palace) with some ‘regular’ DMT (extracted from Jurema Preta.). In the vast majority of my early nigerine (DMT) experiences, I encountered visual fields of ‘dots’ that would come together to form images, much like the pointillism style of painting developed by Georges Seurat or the Australian Aboriginal song-line paintings.

With the addition of the 5-MeO-DMT containing toad-venom to the DMT however, the visual characteristic was completely different and totally unique to my experiences so far. On this occasion there was a complete lack of ‘dots’ or ‘points’ of any kind, the fine lines of the constantly changing imagery were like those painted with a single-hair brush on Tibetan thangkas and due to the overwhelming artistry of what I was seeing, I could only think of the vaulted ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in comparison.

Sistene Chapel: This was without a doubt the most ‘visionary’ experience I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter and I lay there with my eyes shut watching the most fantastic parade of the Collective Unconsciousness imaginable, wishing that it would never end, and as I sit here now I can not even describe one tiny corner of it, since every image in the multitude of imagery was in such constant motion that they defied all but a glimpse. And then moments later, like a tent collapsing when its ropes are cut, the vision is gone. Leaving only a struggle of words to explain it, since nothing before or after has come close to this experiences visual majesty.

This experience leads to the interesting question of selectively combining DMT and 5-MeO-DMT for a more visionary and somewhat less overwhelmingly transcendental experience. (Or for the other way around). This combining of the two endogenous entheogens is being tested in changa blends (reportedly at a 90% DMT to 10% 5-MeO-DMT ratio), while many Pharmahuasca urban-shamans are also adding 5-MeO-DMT to their ayahuasca-analogues to transform and deepen that experience. It seems likely to me that the combining of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT in various ratios and manners will only become more popular as the exponentially increasing number of psychonauts search for new psychological terrain to explore.














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Offlinetregar
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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar] * 1
    #26856506 - 08/01/20 12:33 AM (3 days, 5 hours ago)

Just happened to have been gifted 300ugs of extremely pure acid in dreams, dissolved in 1 shot glass full of Sherry wine with added 5 peppermint extract drops, sits in fridge 3 hours with swirling once per hour till consumed in dreams.

I know the effects of acid vs ALD-52 very well, and the two times I tried ALD-52 over 10 years ago, was astounded by the visuals, see my trip report in note (16) above. I also, like reporter in note (17) at the time found it to be more aesthetic, beautiful and relaxing than the more analytical and less aesthetic acid.

ALD-52 also has "double the anti-serotonin" power of LSD. Anti-serotonin means blockage of serotonin activity via 5-ht1a agonism, which in turn blocks the re-uptake of serotonin, see chart above.

Will report back tomorrow.

The priest at Eleusis added fresh mint (note 22) to their secret entheogenic brew believed to be composed of in theory ground up claviceps paspali infected paspalum distichum grass which grows adjacent to Eleusis in the famous Rharian plain.

Fresh claviceps paspali ergot contains the exact same alkaloid profile as the Aztec morning glory when fresh: sky high levels of LSH (lyseric acid hydroxyethylamide) and penniclavine. Animals became stimulated like with LSD when injected with penniclavine in 1958 [note 8]. Same with LSH, animals became stimulated like with LSD when injected with LSH in 1961 (note 9). As everyone knows, 2 drugs combined is more potent than just one.

Note [8] Ref (1) T. Yui and Y. Takeo, Japan J. Pharmacol. 7, 157 [1958].

Note (9) A. Glasser, Nature 189, 313 (1961)

Note (22) The sources were clear that the kykeon's other ingredient, mint (menthe pulegium) was fresh mint. Mint appears to have played a symbolic role in Eleusinian myth; being Hades' concubine, Mint was "dismembered by the jealous wife Persephone." See Wasson, "The Road to Eleusis", 111.


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar]
    #26856509 - 08/01/20 12:34 AM (3 days, 5 hours ago)

I am tripping 300ug on this tonight, will report back tomorrow. Has been in fridge 3 hours with swirling once per hour. Ready to consume in dreams in 1 hour.

https://www.friskyradio.com/


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar]
    #26856510 - 08/01/20 12:34 AM (3 days, 5 hours ago)

Question:
Quote:

I'm wondering if this would work with 1P-LSD, potentially creating an analog of ALD-52?



1p-lsd already has an adduct attached at the bottom NH indole group, it only works with LSD.


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar]
    #26856511 - 08/01/20 12:35 AM (3 days, 5 hours ago)

2 hours into it, I can say the experiment was a complete success. It is WAY different from LSD. Did not even notice the come up, way more relaxing mentally as well, I prefer this to LSD, it feels like the 1st time I've tripped. Visuals are profoundly powerful. It feels extremely natural, I see why the Priest now added mint to their sacred entheogenic brew at Eleusis for 2,000 years straight, it has a very low "freak out factor", so I can see why hundreds of people could take this at once. 300ug is definitely a great dose, no less than this.


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar] * 1
    #26856517 - 08/01/20 12:42 AM (3 days, 5 hours ago)

Your posts are minutes apart, but you talk as if they're hours apart, which is weird. 4 minutes ago, you posted you were going to consume in 1 hour, then 4 minutes later you claim to be 2 hours in. So I guess you must have written all these posts before hand? If so, why post them all in a row like this?

Anyway, I tried ALD52 a number of times, and I always felt it wasn't as good as LSD. It's metallic, not as stimulating, just not as good as LSD IMO. But some rare people prefer it to LSD, but not anyone whose opinion I would trust. It's probably just a prodrug for LSD anyway.

But if you want to hype it and get some sales from it or something, feel free and don't let me stop you. I support RC vendors.


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: nooneman] * 1
    #26856547 - 08/01/20 01:11 AM (3 days, 4 hours ago)

This has been reposted from dmt nexus, that's why the posts are only minutes apart. I don't like the fact that only certain people are allowed in to the nexus, I believe it should be open to ALL, just like Eleusis, all were allowed to participate. I want to hear comments from all people.

This is the ONLY way I will be taking LSD from now on, deeply impressed, it has more of a cactus/mescaline feel to it, sky high appreciation for beauty, profound visuals, mentally super relaxed. I feel 300ug is only the beginning, going to take this to 400ug next time.


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar]
    #26856560 - 08/01/20 01:28 AM (3 days, 4 hours ago)

You have got to try this! It's different from ALD-52 cause it has an extra hydrogen molecule.


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar]
    #26856650 - 08/01/20 04:59 AM (3 days, 53 minutes ago)

Interesting theory.. :strokebeard:

I like ALD52 very much (I still have a f*cking PAGE of it :smirk: ).

If I ever come across legit lsd25 again I will try this conversion. For now I'm set for a lifetime with several lsd analogs that are modified on the first position. LSD25 is quite expensive here. The legal analogs are a lot cheaper, damn.

But I have some eth-lad also in my stash. Eth-lad is modified on the 6th position, so the first should still allow an acetaldehyde bond, right?
I read that there was 1p-eth-lad around a few years ago, so it should be possible to attach acetaldehyde to the first position..

Eth-lad itself is way more visual than lsd25. If I think about it.. 1A-ETH-LAD, a more calming and even more visual version of eth-lad, sounds too good to be true. :wink:

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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar]
    #26857232 - 08/01/20 12:32 PM (2 days, 17 hours ago)

 

      This is a game changer. Simple kitchen chemistry with available non toxic chemicals to create abducts of LSD with comparable strength and efficacy from morning glory seeds, ergot infected grain or LSD itself.

      I stopped using morning glories years ago because of the sedation and nausea associated with the amount of seeds needed to achieve the level i wish to reach.

Sherry and peppermint oil. Mind blowing stuff.


I cannot wait to try this. it's almost too good to be true. 


--------------------
"True terror is to wake up one morning and discover that your high school class is running the country - K. Vonnegut

“The real truth, that dare not speak itself, is that no one is in control. Absolutely no one.” ― Terence McKenna

"LSD is a psychedelic drug which occasionally causes psychotic behavior in people who have never taken it." - Timothy Leary

“If the words 'life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness' don't include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on.” ― Terence McKenna


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: psillyboy]
    #26857253 - 08/01/20 12:50 PM (2 days, 17 hours ago)

LSD and ALD-52 are indistinguishable to me, and ALD-52 is a confirmed prodrug of LSD. In vitro, ALD-52 has around 10-fold lower affinity for the 5HT2A receptor compared to LSD, so ALD-52 itself does not contribute to the psychedelic effects (assuming the bulk of the experience is mediated by 5HT2A, which is a safe assumption). LC-MS experiments in rats also confirmed high levels of LSD after dosing with ALD-52. All of those findings are summarized in this article: https://psychedelicreview.com/study-finds-ald-52-1p-lsd-and-1b-lsd-are-prodrugs-of-lsd/ (discussing this original research paper: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31756337/ )

Unless you're just doing this conversion for fun, it seems like a waste of time (and potentially a waste of LSD) to convert LSD into ALD-52 just for the body to turn it back into LSD.

Also, can you explain how ALD-52 was obtained from this procedure, and how that was confirmed? It seems like the reaction of the indole nitrogen with acetaldehyde in acidic water would give the reaction shown below. Protonation of acetaldehyde followed by addition to the indole and dehydration to give the unstable imine, which would revert back to the starting indole and acetaldehyde in the presence of water. However, in the presence of a hydride source, the imine could be reduced to the stable ethylated indole, but is such a reducing agent present in sherry? Even if it is present, the product would be N-ethyl LSD, not N-acetyl LSD (aka ALD-52). It's interesting that the Mayans and Aztecs may have done this with morning glories and such, so I'm just wondering about the data concerning the products that are formed.

EDIT: nevermind, now I see the link to the paper in the original post. Ethanol adds to the imine to give the aminal, so ALD-52 is not produced from this. That's pretty cool that the aminal is stable enough to isolate. I'm guessing it's hydrolyzed in the body to produce LSD, or else that aminal still fits into the 5HT2A receptor, which seems unlikely based on the in vitro data for ALD-52 and other acetylated LSD analogs.



Edited by breeg89 (08/02/20 12:38 PM)


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar]
    #26857254 - 08/01/20 12:53 PM (2 days, 17 hours ago)

I managed to stash a few lysergamides which I love.
I am simplifying my approach towards the more minimalistic.
Tiny pipes and lighters and bubble hash replace all the paraphernalia for weed and shatter, vapes and batteries, and the blotters need little extra fuss, unless I need to be more certain about partial doses, which is when I use distilled water and a dropper for 20 blotters and 80 droppers full.

I think extra process with liquor adds a layer of ritual, and that is a dandy thing.
A lot of people thrive on ritual and the sense of molecular command which a laboratory or religious procedure imparts.

There is such a range of variety in psychedelic experience even with just a single variety of a single entheogen, that I don't see myself engaging in this extra molecular decoration, but I will enjoy samples from my stash as it is, or metered with a dropper.

maybe post this to ODD too, lots of free range explorers there (though they are probably here too)?


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: breeg89]
    #26858180 - 08/02/20 05:19 AM (2 days, 33 minutes ago)

I dosed ALD52 like 100+ times throughout the last 4 or 5 years, in doses between 25ug and350ug.
While ALD52 is very similar to LSD25, I think I can still see a slight difference. To me the visuals are different, especially the tracers. I can clearly see a difference there.

With 200ug+ of ALD52, when I move my hand it shows some very colorfull spirals and fractals in the tracer /smearing.
While with LSD25 it is just a mirroring effect that shows several of my hands. Not nearly as colorfull, just a non colored shadow (or several) of the real hand.
With ALD52 it's much more colorfull and intense, like painting the air with rainbow colors.

100ug or even 150ug don't really show a difference at all to LSD25, but with 300ug and above (my highest dose was 350ug) the differences are even more intense.
With 350ug I can hardly see reality anymore due to all those colorfull reflections of anything I look at.
I think the higher the dose the clearer the differences.

Also, the conversion above doesn't produce ALD52, it produces ALD52 wih an additional hydrogen molecule (if I understood correctly). That's again some different molecule that might show unique effects.

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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26858368 - 08/02/20 08:20 AM (1 day, 21 hours ago)

YES Pandemoon, thanks for your invaluable comments!

Pandemoon said:
Quote:

I dosed ALD52 like 100+ times throughout the last 4 or 5 years, in doses between 25ug and350ug.

While ALD52 is very similar to LSD25, I think I can still see a slight difference. To me the visuals are different, especially the tracers. I can clearly see a difference there.

With 200ug+ of ALD52, when I move my hand it shows some very colorfull spirals and fractals in the tracer /smearing.

While with LSD25 it is just a mirroring effect that shows several of my hands. Not nearly as colorfull, just a non colored shadow (or several) of the real hand.

With ALD52 it's much more colorfull and intense, like painting the air with rainbow colors.

100ug or even 150ug don't really show a difference at all to LSD25, but with 300ug and above (my highest dose was 350ug) the differences are even more intense.

With 350ug I can hardly see reality anymore due to all those colorfull reflections of anything I look at.

I think the higher the dose the clearer the differences.

Also, the conversion above doesn't produce ALD52, it produces ALD52 wih an additional hydrogen molecule (if I understood correctly). That's again some different molecule that might show unique effects.



Yes, as I mentioned above 1-acetaldehyde LSD has an extra hydrogen on the NH group adduct at bottom indole of the ergoline as compared to ALD-52.


emkee_reinvented (bluelight) said:
Quote:

ALD-52 and Al-LAD both were subjectively better then 1p/1cp-LSD as well as LSD. But my memory about that last one are hazy.



tregar said:
Quote:

This is the ONLY way I will be taking LSD from now on, deeply impressed, it has more of a cactus/mescaline feel to it, sky high appreciation for beauty, profound visuals, mentally super relaxed. I feel 300ug is only the beginning, going to take this to 400ug next time.



Anonymous Dissident (bluelight) said:
Quote:

More than anything else in this thread, this comment really got my attention. I absolutely adore mescaline and Tricho cacti, so this couldn't sound more appealing. I will definitely be giving this a try at some point!



Same here Anonymous Dissident, cactus is my absolute favorite, that's why I was surprised the 1-acetaldeyde LSD took me to a state similar to that familiar place, I absolutely ADORE the over the top beauty enhancement & euphoria with cactus, and this new alkaloid took me to that same artistic way of seeing the beauty in the world.

But just like cactus, the 1-acetaldehyde LSD requires higher dosages, I would compare 300ugs of this to a similar state as 300mg mescaline, I believed based on my experience, that 400ugs of this will be the "sweet spot" similar to a state of 400mgs of mescaline. And just like cactus, this is more expensive to experiment with, this requires 4 hits of acid. I don't mind the extra expense, and acid is readily available if you know where to look.

I also believe this would amplify small amounts of cactus quite well, say 300g to 400g of certain cacti fresh, of which I am also well familiar with, as I grow my own in backyard under shadecloth. In the past I've combined acid with small amounts of cactus more times that I can count, to amplify the beauty of the rare cactus. The open & closed eye visions were unbelievable and went on for hours, and the beauty astounding. I believe based on my experience that 1-acetaldehyde LSD will amplify the beauty of small amounts of the rare cactus to an extreme, looking forward to this in the future in dreams.

I think this has to do with the possibility that 1-acetaldehyde LSD shifts the receptorome or radioligand binding of receptors "away from 5-ht2a" (but not totally) and towards the adrenal A2A, A2B, and A2C spectrum instead (see chart on page 1 of this thread for explanation), which is the dominance or habitat of mescaline & dmt from hawaiian psychotria when combined with Caapi (again, see receptorome chart).

I also agree with poster in note (17) on page 1 above that 100ug to 200ug of this newly created alkaloid from LSD will be not be very eventful, just like 100mg to 200mg of mescaline is not that eventful, but 300ug is where this shines, just as 300mg of mescaline is a great dosage. I will report back in 2 weeks after dreaming 400ug of this new alkaloid.

This new alkaloid does not feel "man-made" like the semi-synthetic LSD at all, but rather very natural, primitive & infinitely beauty enhancing & euphoric just like cactus. Last night I watched a movie on TV in 4k with lots of beautiful women & scenery, and was astounded at the divine & infinite beauty amidst all the beautiful visuals with open or closed eyes, it cannot be put into words. I also listened to music for an hour and was in heaven.

I did notice the come up, but it was so smooth and relaxing, just like cactus. Again, this experimentation is for people who have acid to spare. If you don't have much acid to spare, recommend you stick with acid.


Edited by tregar (08/02/20 08:33 AM)


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: Pandemoon]
    #26858763 - 08/02/20 12:13 PM (1 day, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Pandemoon said:


Also, the conversion above doesn't produce ALD52, it produces ALD52 wih an additional hydrogen molecule (if I understood correctly). That's again some different molecule that might show unique effects.

-




True, it does not produce ALD-52, but it's not just ALD-52 with an additional hydrogen. See my pic below which shows the difference between ALD-52 and the theoretical derivative prepared from this sherry procedure. The structure of that derivative is based on the paper posted by the OP: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC49935/



ALD-52 is a confirmed pro-drug of LSD, and the derivative prepared from this procedure is almost certainly a pro-drug as well. That's based on data that modifications at the indole nitrogen (like in ALD-52, 1P-LSD, etc) dramatically reduce binding affinity to the 5HT2A receptor, so if the sherry derivative is active, the current data suggest it must be metabolized to LSD to activate 5HT2A. All of this is discussed in more detail in my earlier post in this thread.

We can speculate that the sherry product does not get metabolized and might bind to receptors that aren't 5HT2A, but in that case the effects should not be classically psychedelic in nature.


Edited by breeg89 (08/02/20 12:29 PM)


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: breeg89]
    #26859110 - 08/02/20 03:06 PM (1 day, 14 hours ago)

ALD-52 and 1-acetaldehyde LSD are REAL drugs, see here, not some kind of "pro-drug": Perform the experiment I did using 300 to 400ug of acid, it will rock your world in a completely different way than LSD.

Yes, you guys are right about 1p-LSD, it will not fit the "very specific receptor dock" as ALD-52 or 1-aceteldehyde LSD does, even LSD scientist Dr. Nichols said it is too long.

1-acetaldehyde LSD is more stimulating, more like mescaline when it comes to the sky high perception of infinite beauty & euphoria, profound visuals, and relaxing mentally, no thoughts that wander uncontrollably like with LSD.

I was immersed in fine multi colored rainbow reflections that surrounded everything I looked at just like Pandemoon in report saw. It was indeed "like painting the air with rainbows". The beauty was breathtaking. This was different from the "colored specs in the air" I see that flow in front of everything like with acid.

I believe if you combine just 300ug of this with 300 to 400g of fresh cacti (no core) it will make it feel like 600 to 700g of fresh cactus, that's how close I believe the A2A, A2B & A2C receptor binding is between 1-aceteldehyde LSD and mescaline. LSD only binds to A2A in comparison, see chart on page 1 of this thread.

The table from Sandoz (lab where Albert Hofmann discovered LSD) suggested that ALD-52 might actually have advantages over LSD, reducing any side effects but achieving a stronger trip. Measurements of brain waves while people were taking the two drugs showed that while LSD produced brain waves associated with intense concentration and anxiety, ALD produced brain waves showing a more relaxed mental state. Sample ALD-52 trip reports given in (note 16) and (note 17).

In The Hallucinogens by Hoffer and Osmond (1967), ALD-52 is listed as having a lower [approximately 1/5] intravenous toxicity (in rabbits), a lower [approximately 1/8] pyretogenic effect, an equal psychological effect in humans, and double the "antiserotonin" effect as compared with LSD.

Also verified by reading a page on ALD-52 from the book "Ergot alkaloids & related compounds" by Berde that indeed ALD-52 has 2.1 times the "anti-serotonin" properties of LSD, and higher stimulation follows higher anti-serotonin, which may help to explain why our newly formed mystery molecule 1-acetaldehyde LSD is even more stimulating than LSD in the beginning.

The Aztecs and Mayans were known to add the extract from morning glory seeds (same exact alkaloid profile as the Greek claviceps paspali which grows on the grass paspalum distichum adjacent to Eleusis in the famous Rharian plain, both contain sky high amounts of LSH & penniclavine when fresh) to a drink containing alcohol (note 2).

We know that sherry wine contains average 10mg acetaldehyde per 30ml or shot glass. The Aztecs and Mayans apparently knew about the acetaldehyde adducting properties of wine and alcohol, which as shown in the 1992 adducts study (note 6) will cause acetaldehyde to adduct onto the bottom NH group on the indole of LSH and penniclavine forming something more akin to looking like ALD-52, (at least bottom indole wise).

Note (2) Page 515 "Encyclopedia of Psychoactive Plants" Christian Ratsch: "The fresh or dried morning glory seeds normally are added to alcoholic drinks (sugarcane liquor; c. alcohol), tepache (maize beer, chicha), and balche' (Schultes 1941, 37).

Note (6) 1992 adducts study: hxxps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC49935/ Page 8441 "Reaction of Indole with Acetaldehyde: A 0.2% solution of indole in equal amounts of water, ethanol, and acetaldehyde formed a product with 60% yield after 1 hour of reaction at ambient temperature. Omitting the ethanol (50% acetaldehyde in water mixture) had no effect. Decreasing the concentration of acetaldehyde to 0.1% increased the reaction rate and percent yield of product." See pic of the researchers's indole + acetaldehyde adduct product formed at bottom of this post ---> ie before (page 8439) and after (page 8441).

The researchers achieved a new product with or without the use of ethanol, it made no difference, you only need ph=4 acidified water and around a 0.1% acetaldehyde solution." Sherry wine not only contains avg 10mg acetaldehyde per shot glass, but is already at ph=4.

I will return in 2 weeks with a 400ug 1-acetaldehyde LSD trip experience. It is WAY different from LSD, see reports above.


Edited by tregar (08/02/20 04:19 PM)


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: tregar]
    #26859147 - 08/02/20 03:22 PM (1 day, 14 hours ago)

Quote:

tregar said:


The researchers achieved a new product with or without the use of ethanol, it made no difference, you only need ph=4 acidified water and around a 0.1% acetaldehyde solution." Sherry wine not only contains avg 10mg acetaldehyde per shot glass, but is already at ph=4.






Dude, sherry wine is alcohol, in other words, it has ethanol. In that paper you posted, they state that acetaldehyde alone gave no product:

Quote from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC49935/?page=1 :

"Both of these compounds [N-acetyltryptophan and indole acetic acid] yielded reaction products when treated simultaneously with acetaldehyde and ethanol. No products were detected when either of these reagents was used alone."

In your own post above, you also quoted a part of the paper where they again state that:

"Omitting the ethanol (50% acetaldehyde in water mixture) had no effect."


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: breeg89]
    #26859157 - 08/02/20 03:27 PM (1 day, 14 hours ago)

The researchers achieved a new product with or without the use of ethanol, it made no difference, you only need ph=4 acidified water and around a 0.1% acetaldehyde solution." Sherry wine not only contains avg 10mg acetaldehyde per shot glass, but is already at ph=4. You need to read the whole paper, I discovered this paper over 20 years ago.


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: breeg89]
    #26859169 - 08/02/20 03:35 PM (1 day, 14 hours ago)

Where are you quoting that from? It contradicts the published data in that article you referenced.

I'm not denying LSD mixed with acetaldehyde and acidic water will be active, but it'll be active because it's a solution of LSD, not something new. You need some published analytical data to show the formation of a new product, which would directly contradict the findings from that published article you referenced. This finding can also be rationalized by reversible formation of an unstable imine that just hydrolyzes to give the starting compounds.

If sherry is used as the source of acidic water and acetaldehyde, then ethanol is also present because sherry is wine.


Edited by breeg89 (08/02/20 03:55 PM)


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Re: Theoretical at-home conversion of LSD to ALD-52 (1-acetyl LSD) in 1 step [Re: breeg89]
    #26859219 - 08/02/20 04:21 PM (1 day, 13 hours ago)

When the researchers said "Omitting the ethanol (50% acetaldehyde in water mixture) had no effect." WHAT THEY MEAN is that if you take the ethanol out, the reaction STILL WORKS. But you do need ph=4 water solution, and in my experiment, Sherry wine is already at ph=4, and you also need around a 0.1% acetaldehyde solution.


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