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Offlinenetizen4891
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First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose!
    #26856831 - 08/01/20 08:21 AM (13 days, 12 hours ago)

Hello everyone,

It was my first time getting to the point where my 12 small trays were beautifully fully colonized with white rhizomorphic mycelium, consolidated for a week with small crystal-like water bubbles all over. Only one had a small uncolonized patch which I tried to remove but the underneath was also uncolonized. Ever since it seemingly went downhill and I don't know what I am doing wrong.

I removed the lids from the trays, dunked them for half an hour under faucet water running (as per RR) and placed them in a SGFC elevated over perlite. I don't like the idea of a monotub because it seems like the primary pinning trigger which is FAE is absent through polyfill (from what I understood from RR). I want the healthiest mushrooms regardless of cubes being CO2 tolerant. So I opted for terrarium with extra RH from the subs as well as the perlite underneath. I give them 12h of 6500K light a day as well as 3 mistings/fannings a day until glistening and wait for them to look moist but no longer glistening to mist again.

So the timeline is as follows, spawning started on July 14. By July 21, they seemed fully colonized. I then waited until July 28 to birth, dunk and place in fruiting conditions. Since then, 4 days now, some pins and fruit bodies have appeared but not the dense pinset that I see all over the forum with people that don't even consolidate. I have not isolated for a super-performer strain yet because I want to at least have the whole lifecycle down before I go back to agar and use small jars to test many strains that I have isolated. Also instead of seeing hyphal knots and primordia, the surface is mostly thickening with holes inside and getting bluish (maybe from direct spraying?).

Can you please look at my pictures and help me identify what I am doing wrong? It would be so appreciated. Noob here and desperate to finally get the whole cycle right! Thanks!



Edited by netizen4891 (08/01/20 08:35 AM)


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InvisibleRoger Clemency
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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26856848 - 08/01/20 08:35 AM (13 days, 12 hours ago)

So all the thousand of pounds of cubes put out by excellent growers in monotubs don’t count for anything lol? :strokebeard:

Those look like they’re bacterial and also very matted maybe from over misting. How do they smell?


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26856852 - 08/01/20 08:39 AM (13 days, 12 hours ago)

Of course they do count. I know monotubs work for cubes. I bought the argument from RR that the polyfill doesn't provide massive FAE which is the primary pinning factor. So cubes will do well even with high CO2 but I want the healthiest mushrooms.

I am certainly open to rethink and learn this point so if you can respond to the above would be great.

They smell like fresh mushrooms. I thought that bacteria was not a contaminant at the fruiting stage only during previous phases?



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“The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.” Joseph Campbell



Edited by netizen4891 (08/01/20 11:24 AM)


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26856913 - 08/01/20 09:21 AM (13 days, 11 hours ago)

Use micro pore tape, not polyfill, for better results in my experience. And bacteria can contaminate mycelium in every stage of growth. Mycelium can appear healthy but within the microscopic bundles of mycelium can be harmful bacteria. There is always going to be bacteria, your goal is to have that bacteria be a beneficial community. RR isn’t the be all end all of mushroom cultivation, there are literal years of experimentation and different methods on this site posted by tons of talented growers. And to answer your question, I don’t think the co2 is as bad as you’re thinking, and there isn’t just a set rate of FAE for monotubs, a bunch of factors like how big the holes are, whether you used polyfill or micro pore tape, how tightly packed it is/how many layers are all important in regards to FAE and will affect how much of it the mycelium is getting.


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Edited by TempestDnB (08/01/20 09:30 AM)


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26856924 - 08/01/20 09:26 AM (13 days, 11 hours ago)

Bacteria and mold are always there and can take over at any point.

Tons of fae only helps if you can also maintain humidity and surface conditions, it’s all about balance. I would focus on information from more current sources because things here change constantly. Even in the few months I’ve been on shroomery I’ve seen a lot of techniques evolve.

Your pinsets will get better as you develop an eye for conditions and learn to dial your stuff in. Unfortunately it’s something that you can only get through experience so just keep knocking out grows and try different things to get a feel for what’s best.


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: A.k.a]
    #26856943 - 08/01/20 09:32 AM (13 days, 11 hours ago)

Exactly, so many ways to skin that cat. The techniques are constantly evolving on here.


--------------------

“How happy is the blameless vestal’s lot! The world forgetting, by the world forgot. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind! Each pray’r accepted, and each wish resign’d”


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26856957 - 08/01/20 09:37 AM (13 days, 11 hours ago)

Thanks for all the great feedback everyone. Any way to save these trays at this point? Or scrap and start over?

Also, suppose I try a monotub for a first time, since I haven't isolated a super performing strain in small jars, wouldn't it be a waste of lots of substrates if the strain performs poorly if at all? I read a few times that you should get your performing strain by testing them at a small scale and then produce large quantities of bulk with proven strain.

When you guys were starting out, did you work on strain isolation first before doing bulk or did you learn to dial in bulk first and then do strain isolation?

Finally, about techniques always evolving, is there a consensus best technique for home grows right now? If so, could someone direct me to a thread? Thanks.


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“The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.” Joseph Campbell



Edited by netizen4891 (08/01/20 09:40 AM)


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26856978 - 08/01/20 09:51 AM (13 days, 11 hours ago)

Unless you get pretty unlucky most of the stabilized cube varieties will do well for you if you have clean spawn and good conditions.

All my grows since I started back up have been just MS that I only transferred enough to ensure they were clean. I’d check out shoe boxes - particularly this method - https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26009662

One qt per shoe box so you don’t have to worry about mixing spawn jars and one bad apple ruining a grow and you can test many things easily.

A few shoe boxes I made with random MS using that method linked above  


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: Roger Clemency]
    #26857016 - 08/01/20 10:22 AM (13 days, 10 hours ago)

The shoebox method is a great idea Roger Clemency. Thank you for the link. I will give it a try.

On another note, I just tried to remove the sub from the garbage bag liner and tray and some of them have tons of pins on the other surfaces besides the one I ruined on top. So I might get a good harvest after all. I will try to fruit on all 6 sides see what happens. Just wondering if I should leave the sub upside down so that the bad surface is on the bottom and the other surface gets the light straight on it...What are your thoughts about this?

Thanks you!


--------------------
“The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.” Joseph Campbell



Edited by netizen4891 (08/01/20 10:32 AM)


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26857023 - 08/01/20 10:25 AM (13 days, 10 hours ago)

Yeah just focus on clean spawn and you’ll be set. Cloning and testing cultures is extra stuff for later.

The ones you have going now seem ok, I wouldn’t throw anything out unless it has mold.


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: A.k.a]
    #26859185 - 08/02/20 03:50 PM (12 days, 5 hours ago)

A.k.a,

I took the substrates out of the trays and now they started pinning. However the substrate is way too wet from previous over misting. Should I continue to mist lightly everyday or stop all together for a few days to allow them to dry a little? Thanks!


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26859247 - 08/02/20 04:37 PM (12 days, 4 hours ago)

I’d stop misting for now but keep an eye on them so they don’t totally dry out. One of the biggest realizations I had is that misting is not a source of water for the mushrooms. There’s plenty of water in the sub, the purpose of misting is mainly to keep the surface covered in tiny beads that are constantly evaporating.

So basically don’t mist on a schedule, wait until it’s close to being dry. Then when you do mist keep it super light. A lot of times one or two sprays aiming up over the surface is plenty. Just let it rain down instead of directly spraying the surface.


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: A.k.a]
    #26861697 - 08/03/20 09:40 PM (10 days, 23 hours ago)

I am so confused about how much to mist. I just saw a video on youtube where the guy sprays his PF cakes heavily like 50 times and they are doing great (see below). Meanwhile you are saying to mist once or twice and from your signature pictures you seen to be doing great as well. How many times do you hit the spray trigger on average? I know this doesn't mean much, depends on how fine the mist is, how the mushrooms and surface looks and how much substrate surface you are spraying and all but I am so clueless right now.



I just think I figured out another reason why my PF cakes take forever to pin when I take them out of the jars. They say dunk 24 hours and I also read that if you submerge them deep the osmosis into the cell walls of the mycelium is better. Problem is that I have been doing both which I think is making them waterlogged. So should I just let them float close to the surface of the water for 24hrs?

Also, today, my substrate blocks were really heating up. Does that mean that it switched back from generative to vegetative state? I am concerned because those cakes in particular shrunk a lot more than the others that were not heating up.

Thank for helping me out!


--------------------
“The goal of life is to make your heartbeat match the beat of the universe, to match your nature with Nature.” Joseph Campbell



Edited by netizen4891 (08/03/20 09:43 PM)


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26862062 - 08/04/20 06:49 AM (10 days, 14 hours ago)

Idk much about fruiting cakes, I only did a few because i found shoeboxes much easier.


Basically you just want to keep little beads of water on the surface myc like this



When they start to dry up just very lightly mist up and over them so the water rains down onto the surface.

I have a mister that looks like a regular spray bottle but it does a pretty fine mist and I usually don’t spray it more than twice.

The myc is kinda stretched over the coir like a spider web and if you spray it directly the force from the mist will break it and push it into the surface and it won’t hold water right.


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Edited by A.k.a (08/04/20 06:50 AM)


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: A.k.a]
    #26862136 - 08/04/20 07:48 AM (10 days, 13 hours ago)

Don’t drill holes in your tubs imo
Unmodified (no holes) is the way to go.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/26067779


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In everything you do......have fun with it, or you'll hate life, and all you do.


Edited by Ragoo0192 (08/04/20 07:52 AM)


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26862170 - 08/04/20 08:15 AM (10 days, 12 hours ago)

I know it's easy to get confused at the beginning and remix few old info sources into one.
PF Cakes and SGFC are -different- from grain in Monotubs and work on different principles.

I would not worry about isolating "super performing strains" when you are not confident enough to get a good simple grow. As said above leave that for later when you know what you are doing.


Grain + Pure Coir (anything added to it is waste of money, time, space) + Unmodified Tub (no need for holes or polyfill if you can make and adjust a little gap between tub and lid) + Set and Forger (more you are impatient more you stress your culture, mist only when surface dew dries up) = Good Harvest (it's simple as that really, less is more)

Some people like holes in their tubs and it's totally fine, you may want to use micropore for cleaner look, easier application and better control by adding and removing layers.

But don't listen to me. I suggest you do what I did. Search for good recent teks, choose one you like most and follow it to the letter. Only then start adjusting/experimenting. Im sorry but putting little tubs in SGFC means you got confused by multiple methods.


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Re: First Time Trays Not Pinning Surface Looking Worse Daily. Please Help Diagnose! [Re: netizen4891]
    #26863265 - 08/04/20 07:03 PM (10 days, 2 hours ago)

Thanks everyone for all your help. I actually dialed in my SGFC now and doing better. I had a decent harvest and many more on the way. Thank you, thank you, thank you! :smile:


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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