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Offlineskullhuman
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26848767 - 07/27/20 08:29 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Most people CAN'T surrender to an intense psychedelic on their very first trip, which causes one to fight the experience and then it backfires horribly.  This is what I mean by 'going to hell'


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: skullhuman]
    #26848883 - 07/27/20 09:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

This seems reckless since you are using other people as guinea pigs. Instead of them using themselves as test subjects.


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Invisiblemicrobiome88
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26848926 - 07/27/20 10:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rat-a-Tat said:
The threshold between 3g and 5g is staggering.  Let me ask you all a question...  Let's say that 2.8G of good Ape could be the equivalent of 4G of say golden teachers.  If your best bud who smokes weed, and drinks a lot, but has never done psychedelics, comes to you and says - "My man, I want a truly transcendent experience.  I want to see the magic behind the magic mushrooms."  Would you bat an eye at giving him 2.8G or 3G of APE?  Is this push-back mostly because she's a mom in her 50's?




Maybe we are making implicit assumptions about it being your Mum. I wouldn't be game to comment on how much MOST MUMs understand about psychedelics but most of the women in their 50s who I know wouldn't have the foggiest about what to expect.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
:shrug: Yeah Im no expert on it, and I’m also not interested in turning anybody on who hasn’t already done 99% of the hw & work on their own.




I think this is important too.

It begs the question that seems to do the rounds often on these forums which is "is it better for someone to be fully informed of the risks and benefits of psychedelics beforehand or is it better for them to go in without expectations." FWIW (and I am only new to this world) I think the former is important.
^^ Interested to know what others think here.

So do you think your Mum knows that she will inducing a state of bliss and/or terrifying psychosis that might at times genuinely seem like it will never end?


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OfflinePandemoon
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: microbiome88]
    #26849234 - 07/28/20 03:59 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You can always redose.

Better start low with like 2g. You don't know how she reacts, as everybody reacts differently.

If it's not enough and she wants more after 90min, then just let her eat another gram or two.. :shrug:
(Maybe prepare a tea earlier so that the second dose kicks in fast)

Redosing shrooms works better than most people believe, in my experience.

-


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OfflineRat-a-Tat
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Psicomb]
    #26849341 - 07/28/20 06:54 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Psicomvb said:
Push back is because you're trying to give her 3g APE for her very first time, I mean I think that itself explains the reactions.  Not everyone immediately knows how to surrender to an intense psychedelic experience.

3g of good APE is like 10g of pretty good cubes.  Like straight up man.  Why would you ever give your mom 10g of pretty good cubes?




Firstly, in no world are 3g of good APE like 10g of pretty good cubes.  That is for sure an exaggeration.  But I do agree with you that not everyone immediately knows how to surrender to an intense psychedelic experience.  I guess I am drawing from the fact that she has expressed a desire for a transcendent experience, which at least for me personally does not come with 1G or 2G.  Also, I am drawing from my sister and my brother-in-law's experience of being underwhelmed on 1.75 grams (of which she will be taking the same batch).


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OfflineRat-a-Tat
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: microbiome88]
    #26849348 - 07/28/20 07:02 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


Maybe we are making implicit assumptions about it being your Mum. I wouldn't be game to comment on how much MOST MUMs understand about psychedelics but most of the women in their 50s who I know wouldn't have the foggiest about what to expect.




I defiantly believe that there are implicit assumptions about it being my mom, and definitely why I am seeking advise here.  Like I said, if your male friend who drank and smoked weed a lot wanted a banger experience, but had never done psychedelics, I don't think many people on this website or in this discussion would take too much of an issue with giving him 3G of APE.  But, and I don't think that I've stated this, I wouldn't ever want to do anything but give my mom an absolutely amazing experience.  My wife and I are going to great lengths to provide an amazing set and setting.  I'm flying her out across the country, and the whole weekend is dedicated to her experience.

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
:shrug: Yeah Im no expert on it, and I’m also not interested in turning anybody on who hasn’t already done 99% of the hw & work on their own.

I think this is important too.

It begs the question that seems to do the rounds often on these forums which is "is it better for someone to be fully informed of the risks and benefits of psychedelics beforehand or is it better for them to go in without expectations." FWIW (and I am only new to this world) I think the former is important.
^^ Interested to know what others think here.

So do you think your Mum knows that she will inducing a state of bliss and/or terrifying psychosis that might at times genuinely seem like it will never end?




I appreciate this question too.  How do you prepare someone for the im-preparable (definitely not a word).  How can you explain to someone that everything they thought they knew about themselves, the world, spirituality and reality in general could be through into question and be plunged into potential madness for a 5 hour period that could seem like a lifetime?  But...  I have been tripping for the last 15 years, at very high doses and relaying to her all of that information.  She knows that reality can be warped to the extreme and the potential for psychological distress is more likely than not.  And still, she wants to take the risk for a transcendent experience.


Edited by Rat-a-Tat (07/28/20 07:02 AM)


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Rat-a-Tat] * 1
    #26849639 - 07/28/20 10:23 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Mushrooms can be so uncomfortable if you're not attuned to its wavelength. I would personally venture on the cautious side, maybe give her a 1g tek tea so it only lasts 1-3 hours.


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InvisiblePsicomb
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Rat-a-Tat] * 1
    #26849748 - 07/28/20 11:37 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Rat-a-Tat said:
Quote:

Psicomvb said:
Push back is because you're trying to give her 3g APE for her very first time, I mean I think that itself explains the reactions.  Not everyone immediately knows how to surrender to an intense psychedelic experience.

3g of good APE is like 10g of pretty good cubes.  Like straight up man.  Why would you ever give your mom 10g of pretty good cubes?




Firstly, in no world are 3g of good APE like 10g of pretty good cubes.  That is for sure an exaggeration.  But I do agree with you that not everyone immediately knows how to surrender to an intense psychedelic experience.  I guess I am drawing from the fact that she has expressed a desire for a transcendent experience, which at least for me personally does not come with 1G or 2G.  Also, I am drawing from my sister and my brother-in-law's experience of being underwhelmed on 1.75 grams (of which she will be taking the same batch).





I disagree man, I've been dosing (multispore) APE for like 2 years now, I feel like I have a decent understanding of how insane it can be. If yours are multispore too you cant say for sure the next handful will be weaker too.

Look, I want your mom to have a transcendental experience but dose isnt the only thing that matters in that regard. You're trying to force the experience for her at that point.  Her being able to focus and gain insight from the experience is just as important as dose and if it's too high and it's her first rodeo I dont think itd play out well despite your intentions

Sounds like you've already made up your mind tho

And to answer your question earlier, I dont think I would ever give anyone 3g APE their first time no matter how convincing they were about how they could roll with it.  I sound like such a stick in the mud lol I love high doses too but we gotta respect these chemicals


Edited by Psicomb (07/28/20 11:42 AM)


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OfflineRat-a-Tat
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Psicomb]
    #26849779 - 07/28/20 11:57 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Nah man, my mind isn't made up, and I really appreciate you and the other people who have weighed in on the situation.  The grand consensus from everyone (except myself) is that 3G is too much.  The last thing I want to do it put my mom in a precarious psychological situation.  I think that I am going to taper it down to 2.3G.  I'm also going to test the batch myself when they are finished and make a gauge of the potency.  One thing that I am going to do is weight out 4.6G and split each mushroom down the middle.  Put each half into a 2 piles.  So I will be testing the exact same shrooms and weight that my mom will be taking.  I don't know if 2.3G will be enough to get her to a transcendent experience, but she can always take more...


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OfflineRat-a-Tat
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Psicomb]
    #26849781 - 07/28/20 11:58 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:


And to answer your question earlier, I dont think I would ever give anyone 3g APE their first time no matter how convincing they were about how they could roll with it.  I sound like such a stick in the mud lol I love high doses too but we gotta respect these chemicals




Really?  I guess I have always been a go big or go home kind of guy.  I would rather be completely overwhelmed than underwhelmed... But that's just me.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Rat-a-Tat]
    #26849938 - 07/28/20 01:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

We aren't discussing you here bucko. You might be a big dose guy but that doesn't mean you impose your will just because you think you have it down. You make it seem as though she has only one opportunity to try these things.

And how would your mom even know what underwhelmed or overwhelmed mean? I do feel as though you are being reckless here.

And no I would not give my stoner friend anything by default. It's a case by case situation. I have friends that take less than 2g of cubes and if they asked me out if no where for +5g I would not jump at the opportunity to say yes.


Edited by LosTresOjos (07/28/20 01:25 PM)


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Invisiblelarry.fisherman
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Rat-a-Tat]
    #26849962 - 07/28/20 01:38 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Someone's first time largely shouldn't be aimed at being a transcendent experience, something that can mean a lot of things. Transcendent is something that can happen in sobriety. It's like tossing a kid in a pool so they learn how to swim. Not everyone is going to think that's fun or helpful, especially if they've never experienced water before. The water itself is new. Maybe just let her splash around a little before you send her out into open waters with no experience swimming.


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OfflineSocrateshroom
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: larry.fisherman]
    #26850008 - 07/28/20 02:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Something to keep in mind:

A dose that might be "mild to strong" for one person can be unbearable psychological hell for someone else.

Each person reacts differently, based on everything from their biological make up to the psychological state when dosing, as well as their subconscious mind.

I don't know your mom, her psychological history, her biological sensitivity to the actives in mushrooms, etc, so I can't begin to theorize what kind of dosage you should give her.

But I concur with most of the posts on this thread that 3G of APEs (assuming they are of the average 1.5-2x potency of regular cubes) is probably too much for someone who has no experience with such substances. And if they are ultra-potent, then it can be overwhelmingly scary for her and she could come out worse for the wear.

LosTresOjos is right. Just because you can jump into the volcano doesn't mean others have the same fortitude. And it's dangerous to project your subjective experience of psychedelics onto others. Many people have dosed way too high, whether knowingly or not, and have been put off for life or, worse, psychologically scarred. Like Los said, there are people who'll take 10g, and have the ability to navigate heaven or hell. But if I took 10g, I imagine I'd come out never wanting to trip again, because I know I'm not ready for such a dose.

Anyway, I'd say 1.5-2g of medium strength APEs is more than enough, and less if they are very potent. She could always take more later on.


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OfflineEnkidu
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Socrateshroom]
    #26850022 - 07/28/20 02:18 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Yeah i think the take away is jist better safe than sorry and just slowly move into the watet

Imo if you are young you are more malleable to a trip and mushrooms may show mercy on you

Idk why but for some reason i feel more caution toward older people vs younger, even though noone should imo jump into a level 5 exp.

Its a journey

Enjoy the process (tat's mom)


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OfflineRat-a-Tat
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Socrateshroom] * 1
    #26850036 - 07/28/20 02:24 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Socrateshroom said:
Something to keep in mind:

A dose that might be "mild to strong" for one person can be unbearable psychological hell for someone else.

Each person reacts differently, based on everything from their biological make up to the psychological state when dosing, as well as their subconscious mind.

I don't know your mom, her psychological history, her biological sensitivity to the actives in mushrooms, etc, so I can't begin to theorize what kind of dosage you should give her.

But I concur with most of the posts on this thread that 3G of APEs (assuming they are of the average 1.5-2x potency of regular cubes) is probably too much for someone who has no experience with such substances. And if they are ultra-potent, then it can be overwhelmingly scary for her and she could come out worse for the wear.

LosTresOjos is right. Just because you can jump into the volcano doesn't mean others have the same fortitude. And it's dangerous to project your subjective experience of psychedelics onto others. Many people have dosed way too high, whether knowingly or not, and have been put off for life or, worse, psychologically scarred. Like Los said, there are people who'll take 10g, and have the ability to navigate heaven or hell. But if I took 10g, I imagine I'd come out never wanting to trip again, because I know I'm not ready for such a dose.

Anyway, I'd say 1.5-2g of medium strength APEs is more than enough, and less if they are very potent. She could always take more later on.




Well said...  And the take away that I am getting from this is, less is more. 

LosTresOjos - my inclination is to be like, fuck you man, I'm not imposing my will on anyone - she is asking me to do them.  But the more I think about it you are right.  Just because I have found the ultimate truth/hapiness/transcendence in high doses, does not mean everyone else will.  And, I have been doing this for 15 years and know how to navigate the murky waters of hell, should I find myself there.  So, thank you for talking a little sense.  Even though she wants something BIG to happen - I can't set her up for potential doom.

Quote:

Someone's first time largely shouldn't be aimed at being a transcendent experience, something that can mean a lot of things. Transcendent is something that can happen in sobriety. It's like tossing a kid in a pool so they learn how to swim. Not everyone is going to think that's fun or helpful, especially if they've never experienced water before. The water itself is new. Maybe just let her splash around a little before you send her out into open waters with no experience swimming.




Also well said.  Ok ok - you all have made me see that I might be projecting my own wants and desires for her to achieve an outcome that (while she may be looking for) needs to be built up slowly.  I was taken aback reading some of the John Hopkins studies that they were giving people up to 5 grams for their first dose, but yes..  You are all right - APE is a different fucking story.  If I gave her 3.2G of regular golden teachers, at least those would be more or less an 1/8 power.  You never know how strong APE will be, and I think that is where a lot of the concern comes in as well.  You have all shown me the error of my ways.  Thank you for helping me avoid a potentially harmful experience for her.


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OfflineLosTresOjos
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Rat-a-Tat]
    #26850052 - 07/28/20 02:35 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

No one here has any I'll will towards you. We are all in this weird shit together.

  I understand the mentality, it's excitement. But we gotta be willing to pump the brakes too.


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Offlinemeowjinx
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: LosTresOjos]
    #26850463 - 07/28/20 06:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

You should have more common sense than this, dude. I dunno how much APE you grew, but be responsible with that shit


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InvisibleHartford
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: meowjinx]
    #26850492 - 07/28/20 06:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

She would never trust you again


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OfflineSamiam76
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Hartford] * 1
    #26852922 - 07/30/20 02:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Dude, respect the APE!!!  I wouldn't suggest it, my wife and I made tea from 75g fresh and split it.  The come up was so not fun, I got to know the floor intimately for a few hour after I got over the hump.  We were tripping quite frequently at the time, every 2 weeks and I feel that there was some tolerance built up.


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OfflineCosmic Eye
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Re: 3G - APE for My Mom? Her First Time [Re: Samiam76]
    #26854291 - 07/30/20 07:45 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Nah man. From what I have read over time and even in this thread, APE is potent and should not be taken lightly. if you wnat her to go hard I think 1.5-2g dried max for a first attempt.


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