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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,825
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: laughingdog]
#26853465 - 07/30/20 12:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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But there is a difference between customs that go back thousands of years, and dietary habits that go back millions. I'm only trying to provide a justification for meat-eating based on the fact that the genuses homo, pan and australopithecus, and the vast majority of their offshoots (gorillas would be one obvious exception), incorporate meat into their diets.
I am not attempting to deny your point that nutritional science has found ways superior to meat-eating to give modern humans long and healthy lives. But would that justify ending the practice of meat-eating the world over? Historically, meat has been very highly valued, even prized, in almost every human culture known to anthropologists. India would be an exception to this, but we know that prior to the Aryan invasions, meat, including beef, was eaten widely, and only later was the anti-beef, anti-meat injunction inculcated into the culture for ecological reasons.
I am not saying humans must or even should eat meat, but that it is perfectly natural and reasonable for us to do so, and probably we ought to be able to do it should we so choose.
As discussed above, one potential way out of this is lab-grown meat. If they can ever perfect it, that might be a solution to this problem on several fronts. I would be happy to eat lab-grown meat and end factory farming, if this becomes feasible. But then, a lot of people might not, and who is to say that is inherently ill-founded?
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,362
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: DividedQuantum]
#26853550 - 07/30/20 01:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Anyone try Burger King's meatless burger? I'm supremely confident that technology can provide suitable and aceptable alternatives.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,704
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26853554 - 07/30/20 01:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I want to try locust burgers & spaghetti and crickets!
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,362
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: redgreenvines]
#26853603 - 07/30/20 01:36 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Grubs weren't tasty but I've yet to try worms.
"Bite their heads off, suck their juice out, throw their skins away"
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,247
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26853705 - 07/30/20 02:17 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I cooked worms when I was a kid. Reminded me of onion rings.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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AcidGandalf
Stranger



Registered: 07/27/20
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Rahz]
#26853794 - 07/30/20 02:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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The first reaction to asking someone to consider a vegan diet for their health, the health of the planet and other animals is usually "You can't force people", despite that not being the suggestion. It is a reality that it's something people will have to consider as this planet becomes more uninhabitable and food and water shortages become more common
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,247
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: AcidGandalf]
#26853822 - 07/30/20 03:09 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not sure that directly asking an individual to consider a vegetarian diet would usually result in a defensive reply about forcing people to do it. Is this your experience?
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Rahz]
#26853833 - 07/30/20 03:15 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Had a family dinner a few weeks ago and one of my siblings came in proselytizing (she’s a vegetarian) / Trying to convert the entire family - all of whom have grown up (going back generations) on a Mediterranean diet. She get incredibly defensive and nasty about how no one instantly converted on the spot. The burning of the Amazon got brought up - slave wages for workers - animal cruelty - gmos - disease - unsustainably etc etc...
I think it may have been that time of the month...
Was the most unpleasant family dinner in a long time.
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
Edited by The Blind Ass (07/30/20 03:16 PM)
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26854035 - 07/30/20 05:10 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Blind Ass said: She get incredibly defensive and nasty about how no one instantly converted on the spot.
Human nature, I guess, to attempt domination of weaker personalities/positions and then get upset at resistance.
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The Blind Ass
Bodhi



Registered: 08/16/16
Posts: 26,731
Loc: The Primordial Mind
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26854090 - 07/30/20 05:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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*got
-------------------- Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26854111 - 07/30/20 05:53 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I've noticed a couple of instances on this site where people make obeisance to strong-willed characters. In the interest of research I guess I shouldn't cramp their style.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26854910 - 07/31/20 05:58 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Buster_Brown said: In the interest of research I guess I shouldn't cramp their style.
Scratch that.
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AcidGandalf
Stranger



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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: The Blind Ass]
#26857311 - 08/01/20 01:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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All of those points are true. Not a good idea to bring up during dinner when people are no doubt, enjoying such foods the most and probably in the strongest state of denial. It is frustrating to have people prefer their long standing traditional bad habits to the future of this planet, but that's humans in a nut shell. It frustrates me the most to hear people say what is essentially. "Yes it's bad, but i'm going to keep doing these bad things because I wont change for the world"
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AcidGandalf
Stranger



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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Rahz]
#26857315 - 08/01/20 01:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Yes. Many times online but even in person. Once during christmas dinner I had my whole present family making the usual "Oh, do you only eat lettuce? Where do you get your protein? Joe rogan says blah blah, vegans are so pushy." without once even asking them to consider it, or bringing it up, I was simply eating. Spoiled my appetite for sure.
What's also annoying to me is when people refuse to watch what actually happens to tne animals (undercover footage) but then will eat the product. Willful ignorance for sure.
Edited by AcidGandalf (08/01/20 01:56 PM)
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Buster_Brown
L'une


Registered: 09/17/11
Posts: 11,362
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: AcidGandalf]
#26857462 - 08/01/20 03:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Assuming you don't practice pest control I admire your self sacrifice to the appetites of fleas, mosquitoes and intestinal worms.
Let's be real. You have nothing against killing them, you just don't eat them and try not to raise them, and that supports a holier than thou attitude...but at least you're making progress. Congrats.
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AcidGandalf
Stranger



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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26857580 - 08/01/20 05:19 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Not holier than thou, I'm not religious, and I used to eat meat everyday so I'm hardly 'above' the action. I just don't want to anymore because of the consequences.
Veganism isn't about killing nothing. I'd hardly compare a parasite to something minding its own business.
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: AcidGandalf] 1
#26857584 - 08/01/20 05:26 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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OK, well congrats anyway for making the change and spreading the good word m
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Buster_Brown
L'une


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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Buster_Brown] 1
#26857601 - 08/01/20 05:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I probably need to be fed Indian curries to be able to make the change.
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AcidGandalf
Stranger



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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: Buster_Brown]
#26857715 - 08/01/20 07:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Thanks. Curries are very good, also tbh tastebuds change. Mine certainly did, food I used to think was really bland now tastes nice and since ive tried a meat dish again it was way too salty. First month was annoying but since then as my gut has changed, so has my tastes and cravings.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,829
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Re: Does it make any sense to say that Earth is not overpopulated? [Re: AcidGandalf]
#26858095 - 08/02/20 01:34 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Neither meditating for hours per day or dietary reform or fasting are for everyone. That does not mean that such practices do not have great value for some people, at some times, and in some places. It also does not mean that such practices will over come personal death, or stop the coming disasters about to befall humanity.
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