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InvisiblefeeversM
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Re: [Re: koods]
    #26853672 - 07/30/20 02:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)




TP posted this (then later deleted it) the same day their co-founder died of COVID


But scientists and doctors not fawning over an inneffective drug is the partisan politics that's killing people.

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Offlinelowbrow
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Re: [Re: feevers]
    #26853680 - 07/30/20 02:10 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

First you say this

Quote:

feevers said:
The states where the governors listened to trump are the ones now transporting bodies to the morgue by the refrigerated truck full, after having had 5  months to prepare.




But when I mentioned that the states with the most deaths are democrat run and probably didn’t listen to trump you reverse your original position.

Quote:

feevers said:

I'm sure it has nothing to do with them being the first hit (when practically nothing was known about the virus or how to treat it), having 5 less months to prepare, having higher population densities, mass shortages of PPE in hospitals and nursing homes often directly due to trump administration interference.
.



This was disingenuous.


--------------------
Amanita86 said:
Sui is trying to mod right now.  Kinda like a newborn calf tryin ta stand fer the first time ain’t it..

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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: badchad]
    #26853910 - 07/30/20 03:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
Quote:

yeah said:
Quote:

HamHead said:If you are drowning and a piece of driftwood floats by, are you going to wait for it to be peer reviewed and drown or take a chance and grab on?




100

it's unfortunate so many libtards aren't wired to grasp this




It's more like drowning and grabbing onto an anchor, then encouraging others to do the same.

When something has zero benefit, all that remains is risk, which all medications have.




Zero benefit?

Like, not one, single, solitary benefit?

I disagree.

If this were the case, it would not have been prescribed to begin with if it had absolutely zero benefits.

See where I'm going with this?

And why are other countries such as India having success? In places with many more people per square mile than NYC.

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/this-indian-slum-contained-a-possible-covid-19-disaster-with-hydroxychloroquine

"July 22, 2020 (American Thinker) — On July 9, 2020, Asia's biggest and densest slum shocked the world by announcing just one new positive COVID-19 case despite being a cluster and hotspot.

Dharavi is no ordinary slum. It is one of the densest in the world, housing more than a million people. It provided some of the background for the Oscar-winning movie Slumdog Millionaire.

Dharavi contains pockets where as many as 650,000 people are crammed into 2.5 square kilometers. In comparison, New York City has only around 95,605 people for 2.5 square kilometers."

Zero benefit?

:notyou:


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead] * 4
    #26853990 - 07/30/20 04:45 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

There's a reason a double blind, randomized, placebo controlled trial is the gold standard for determining drug efficacy (i.e., that it "works").

What kind dose were these people taking?  how often?  what was the actual exposure? What are the demographics of the population?  What other "homeopathic treatments" were they taken?

What's the evidence it "worked?"  How do we know what the infection rates would have been without the drug?

There's a million variables to consider.  This is why individuals without the slightest background in science shouldn't be interpreting media reports about drug efficacy.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Invisiblepsi
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Posts: 31,548
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead]
    #26854008 - 07/30/20 04:58 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:
If this were the case, it would not have been prescribed to begin with if it had absolutely zero benefits.





Where would this foreknowledge of its efficacy with this new disease come from if it hadn't been tried yet?

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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: psi]
    #26854013 - 07/30/20 05:01 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
There's a reason a double blind, randomized, placebo controlled trial is the gold standard for determining drug efficacy (i.e., that it "works").

What kind dose were these people taking?  how often?  what was the actual exposure? What are the demographics of the population?  What other "homeopathic treatments" were they taken?

What's the evidence it "worked?"  How do we know what the infection rates would have been without the drug?

There's a million variables to consider.  This is why individuals without the slightest background in science shouldn't be interpreting media reports about drug efficacy.




Oh, I like placebo arguments, because to date, not a single vaccine has been through this 'gold standard' of testing against an inert, saline placebo.

:teareally:

Zelenko protocol



Would that be considered inhumane if a treatment were withheld just to see what an infection rate would be without a drug?

Quote:

psi said:
Quote:

HamHead said:
If this were the case, it would not have been prescribed to begin with if it had absolutely zero benefits.





Where would this foreknowledge of its efficacy with this new disease come from if it hadn't been tried yet?




It has.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1232869/

"We have identified chloroquine as an effective antiviral agent for SARS-CoV in cell culture conditions, as evidenced by its inhibitory effect when the drug was added prior to infection or after the initiation and establishment of infection. The fact that chloroquine exerts an antiviral effect during pre- and post-infection conditions suggest that it is likely to have both prophylactic and therapeutic advantages.

Conclusion
Chloroquine, a relatively safe, effective and cheap drug used for treating many human diseases including malaria, amoebiosis and human immunodeficiency virus is effective in inhibiting the infection and spread of SARS CoV in cell culture. The fact that the drug has significant inhibitory antiviral effect when the susceptible cells were treated either prior to or after infection suggests a possible prophylactic and therapeutic use."


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/

Edited by HamHead (07/30/20 05:07 PM)

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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead]
    #26854023 - 07/30/20 05:06 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Good answer, though its efficacy on the new disease was still unknown until it was tried on that.

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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: psi]
    #26854041 - 07/30/20 05:13 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
Good answer, though its efficacy on the new disease was still unknown until it was tried on that.




With some trials set to fail, giving people lethal doses of HCQ, then saying it's not safe.

And Fauci saying there is no evidence when clearly there is. Bill gates lies about HCQ too.

Remember, lots of money has already been invested into vaccines. If there were a treatment option available, there would be less need for a vaccine.

Fauci is protecting his, and others, investments by discrediting HCQ.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead]
    #26854059 - 07/30/20 05:25 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:


Oh, I like placebo arguments, because to date, not a single vaccine has been through this 'gold standard' of testing against an inert, saline placebo.

:teareally:

Zelenko protocol



Would that be considered inhumane if a treatment were withheld just to see what an infection rate would be without a drug?





That's not true.  The code of federal regulations was recently amended (2019).  A placebo can only be forgone when its ethical to do so.  In this case, because millions of people have COVID, you're correct a placebo controlled trial may not be necessary.

However, that doesn't negate my prior statement:  A randomized, placebo controlled trial is the gold standard.

Regardless of placebo controlled or not, a comparator is still necessary.  As was the case in the study a few pages of back, "standard of care" may suffice.  Regardless, epidemiological studies where its not even clear who has taken the drug (and who hasn't) are a very low tier of evidence.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: badchad]
    #26854067 - 07/30/20 05:29 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

What's not true?

Find me a vaccine that has been tested against a saline placebo.

I'll wait.


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead] * 3
    #26854077 - 07/30/20 05:34 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Are you fucking serious?

That took 10 seconds

https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00004800

You are one of the most ignorant fools I’ve ever witnessed on this site


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (07/30/20 05:36 PM)

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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: koods]
    #26854106 - 07/30/20 05:51 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Are you fucking serious?

That took 10 seconds

https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00004800

You are one of the most ignorant fools I’ve ever witnessed on this site




Yup, only 10 seconds.

PROTOCOL OUTLINE: This is a randomized, double-blind study. Patients are stratified by participating institution and randomly assigned to 1 of 3 vaccines and a placebo vaccine in a 3:3:3:1 ratio.

Keep trying.

Remember, saline placebo.

Here, I'll help.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4157320/


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/

Edited by HamHead (07/30/20 06:01 PM)

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead] * 4
    #26854115 - 07/30/20 05:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

🤦‍♂️

You really have no business talking about this

What do you think a PLACEBO vaccine is?


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

Edited by koods (07/30/20 05:57 PM)

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead] * 2
    #26854142 - 07/30/20 06:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

lol, a placebo doesn't have to be saline.

Often its a capsule filled with an inert powder.

edit: word.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

Edited by badchad (07/30/20 06:32 PM)

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Invisiblebadchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,377
Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: HamHead]
    #26854153 - 07/30/20 06:20 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

HamHead said:

Keep trying.

Remember, saline placebo.

Here, I'll help.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4157320/




Here, just for shits and giggles:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25916341/

Saline was the placebo.


--------------------
...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge.  It is an indellible experience; it is forever known.  I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did.

Smith, P.  Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27.

...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely.

Osmond, H.  Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436

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Invisiblevinsue
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: koods] * 1
    #26854166 - 07/30/20 06:26 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

A placebo is having ham in your head instead of brains.
:elmo: . . . :peace:


--------------------

"All mushrooms are edible; but some only once." Croatian proverb. BTW ...
  Have You Rated Ythans Mom Yet ?? ... :taser:  ... HERE'S HOW ... (be nice) .  :mod: ... :peace:

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Invisiblepsi
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Posts: 31,548
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: badchad] * 1
    #26854174 - 07/30/20 06:30 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

badchad said:
lol, a vaccine doesn't have to be saline.

Often its a capsule filled with an inert powder.



Yeah I'm not sure why it would matter whether it's saline or whatever else, the point of a placebo is that it's inactive.

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InvisibleThe Blind Ass
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: vinsue] * 1
    #26854175 - 07/30/20 06:33 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps -or- give me Death caps

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OfflineHamHead
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Re: Hydroxychloroquine sulfate [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26854210 - 07/30/20 06:54 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

https://sciblogs.co.nz/diplomaticimmunity/2017/02/20/gardasil-vaccine-compared-placebo/#:~:text=There%20are%20several%20reasons%20why,are%20more%20effective%20than%20others.

*The ‘saline’ solution consists of water, 9.56mg sodium chloride, 0.78mg L-histidine and 50micrograms polysorbate-80

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6015121/

"Abstract
Polysorbate 80 is a synthetic nonionic surfactant used as an excipient in drug formulation. Various products formulated with polysorbate 80 are used in the oncology setting for chemotherapy, supportive care, or prevention, including docetaxel, epoetin/darbepoetin, and fosaprepitant. However, polysorbate 80, like some other surfactants, is not an inert compound and has been implicated in a number of systemic and injection- and infusion-site adverse events (ISAEs). The current formulation of intravenous fosaprepitant has been associated with an increased risk of hypersensitivity systemic reactions (HSRs)."


--------------------
The Italian researchers’ findings, published by the INT’s scientific magazine Tumori Journal, show 11.6% of 959 healthy volunteers enrolled in a lung cancer screening trial between September 2019 and March 2020 had developed coronavirus antibodies well before February.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-timing-idUSKBN27V0KF

This online first version has been peer-reviewed, accepted and edited,  but not formatted and finalized with corrections from authors and proofreaders

https://www.icandecide.org/

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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: [Re: lowbrow]
    #26854244 - 07/30/20 07:12 PM (3 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

lowbrow said:
The states with the most dead bodies are the ones that are democrat run.  I’d assume they’re the ones that didn’t listen.




The states with the most lives bodies are also democrat run. Can you think of a relationship between the size of the population and the number of deaths. That's why scientists use rates.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,

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