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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



Registered: 04/03/12
Posts: 2,162
Loc: Portland
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Enlil]
#26853345 - 07/30/20 11:06 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: What relevance does that have in this conversation? You asked about MY position. And where did I say anything about supporting rioters?
It's relevant to point out that either you're bluffing of that you're in an extreme minority.
Most people change their tune real quick when they get personally fucked with. If you wanna sit there and support the people that don't give two shits about you personally, that's your prerogative, but I'm pretty sure that kind of attitude is how we wind up in a dystopian nightmare.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/30/20 11:06 AM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,833
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Vahn421]
#26853347 - 07/30/20 11:08 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I don't support rioters. If rioters fucked up my house, I'd do whatever I could to make them pay for it. I never said otherwise. I said that police need to either deal with the riots without impeding protests, or they need to tolerate the riots to the extent necessary to protect the protests. That has nothing to do with supporting rioters.
It's about priorities. Protests>riot prevention.
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Enlil] 1
#26853358 - 07/30/20 11:19 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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So let me make sure I'm understanding this right as I re-read it.
You'd say you'd take the hit, wouldn't take it personally, make sure the individual rioters who were responsible got paid their dues, and still support the cause because you don't consider them to be representative of the causes's whole and find the cause too important to allow casualties of war, even if you're one of them, to get in the way.
If I'm still misreading this, feel free to correct me.
If you can ACTUALLY hold through with that position if you were a target, then your resolve is commendable, but you'd still be in the minority and I don't think it fair or wise to assume other people who are losing their livelihood... A: Support the cause like you do and B: Even if they do support the cause, that they'd be willing to take a major personal sacrifice for it.
Neither of those are your call to make and the majority of people are not ok with it even if you are.
Protesting without rioting CAN be done. Everyone being in black isn't making it easier to figure out who is causing the crimes, either... and when you have hundreds of people OFFENSIVELY moving in on a federal building (Portland) with the intention to destroy it, it's really hard to say this is a small group of peaceful protesters.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/30/20 11:20 AM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,833
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Vahn421] 1
#26853368 - 07/30/20 11:25 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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If you're saying that the majority of people on this planet act in their own self-interest when tested and rarely stand on principle, we agree. As you and I have already discussed, the majority of people are idiots. Agreeing with idiots just to be in the majority isn't something I ever intend to do.
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Billy Ray
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Enlil] 1
#26853373 - 07/30/20 11:29 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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20,000 residents of Seattle want this “radical experiment” to stop. Who’da thought residents in this area didn’t like all the peaceful protests?
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/seattle-residents-slam-defund-the-police-as-radical-experiment-during-city-budget-meeting
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Vahn421
Awakening Moonlighter



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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Enlil]
#26853374 - 07/30/20 11:30 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: If you're saying that the majority of people on this planet act in their own self-interest when tested and rarely stand on principle, we agree. As you and I have already discussed, the majority of people are idiots. Agreeing with idiots just to be in the majority isn't something I ever intend to do.
While I agree with your first statement, I disagree that my position of not wishing harm on innocent people for some so-called greater cause is unprincipled. This is why I believe that the rioting needs to be handled with harsher police intervention but also that we need police reform. I simply find the former to be currently more problematic than the latter.
Most people aren't going to get behind a cause if the cause itself winds up manifesting more destruction to innocent people than what they are fighting against.
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/30/20 11:31 AM)
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Enlil
OTD God-King




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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Billy Ray]
#26853375 - 07/30/20 11:31 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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3.2% of the population isn't very significant.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,833
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Vahn421]
#26853380 - 07/30/20 11:33 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I disagree that riot prevention is a higher priority that police reform. It would be nice to do both, but we should first build a new police system, and those new police can handle the riots.
Of course, I don't think there will be any riots if we fix the police system.
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Vahn421
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Enlil]
#26853384 - 07/30/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
I don't think there will be any riots if we fix the police system.
This is where we fundamentally disagree. I may actually be on your side if I didn't believe the rioting was a product of a much larger symptom and that it's actually going to make things worse rather than better.
Basically, we agree on the problems, though not the priorities of them nor the solutions to those problems.
I sense that those clad completely in black or those that hide their faces that show up in every large recent protest are just getting started with our country, mate. We're in for a ride...
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Edited by Vahn421 (07/30/20 11:37 AM)
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Billy Ray
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Enlil] 1
#26853385 - 07/30/20 11:36 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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That’s 20,000 people standing up to a violent mob. I doubt the other 96.8% of the population is ok with destroying the city they live in
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Enlil
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Billy Ray] 1
#26853397 - 07/30/20 11:44 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I doubt they're okay with an asteroid hitting the planet and killing everyone on it, but that's not likely to happen anytime soon, either.
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Vahn421
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Billy Ray] 1
#26853402 - 07/30/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Billy Ray said: That’s 20,000 people standing up to a violent mob. I doubt the other 96.8% of the population is ok with destroying the city they live in
Oh trust me... some of them are... as long as that path of destruction stays well out of their part of the city.
It's like all those hypocrites in Beverly Hills... which is basically full of liberals and leftists. They are doing so much protest control in that area because they, the rich, don't want to be inconvenienced. Protesters marched through Beverly Hills chanting, "Eat the rich!" By the end of the night 28 had been arrested, including the leader of the protest, and the rest were chased out of the city. ...and that was just one occasion. There have been other times the residents have demanded police act quickly and swiftly to get protesters, EVEN THE PEACEFUL ONES, out of their neighborhoods. Then these rich Beverly Hill fucks get back on their keyboards and tweet about how great it is what people in Portland are doing.
Edited by Vahn421 (07/30/20 11:58 AM)
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Billy Ray
Stranger
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Enlil]
#26853403 - 07/30/20 11:49 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Their city is already being destroyed, hence the 20,000 signatures.
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Enlil
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Billy Ray]
#26853406 - 07/30/20 11:51 AM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Lol, Seattle isn't being destroyed. That's just hyperbole.
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christopera
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: MagicMush123]
#26853446 - 07/30/20 12:22 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
So did they have the required permits or not? By your definition, if they did not, they were not legally allowed to protest in the middle of the road and had no business being there
Nobody has been able to show that they didn't have permits.
If they didn't, then of course it was illegal.
Either way, car travel as a "human and constitutional right" is flat out made up.
You really think that they actually had the permits but didn't show or tell anyone about them?
You don't have proof that says otherwise.
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MagicMush123
moon person



Registered: 01/22/15
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Loc: Chinada
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: christopera] 1
#26853458 - 07/30/20 12:31 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
Quote:
christopera said:
Quote:
MagicMush123 said:
So did they have the required permits or not? By your definition, if they did not, they were not legally allowed to protest in the middle of the road and had no business being there
Nobody has been able to show that they didn't have permits.
If they didn't, then of course it was illegal.
Either way, car travel as a "human and constitutional right" is flat out made up.
You really think that they actually had the permits but didn't show or tell anyone about them?
You don't have proof that says otherwise.
You're the one that brought up the legality of protesting in the middle of the road. I asked you if blm or other protesters acquired the paperwork to do so and you're asking me to back up your claim...
Here's a catch, its easily verifiable. All you would have to do is call up the local government
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: MagicMush123]
#26853463 - 07/30/20 12:32 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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I'm not sure what makes either of you think that one needs a permit to protest.
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MagicMush123
moon person



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Loc: Chinada
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Enlil] 1
#26853470 - 07/30/20 12:39 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: I'm not sure what makes either of you think that one needs a permit to protest.
In the middle of the road?
Is legal to have spontaneous protests on major arteries of roadway?
Me personally and people i knew were effected by natives having "wildcat protests" per say over major arteries of roadways that impeded traffic, ferry travel and not to mention trains during a protest
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Enlil
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Registered: 08/16/03
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Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: MagicMush123]
#26853475 - 07/30/20 12:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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It's not inherently illegal. Some places may have statutes that set up permit processes, but the general rule is that the 1st Amendment allows speech in any public place. Whatever city you're discussing may have a law about it, and that law may or may not be constitutional, depending on what it says, but it's not safe to assume anything without checking it out first.
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MagicMush123
moon person



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Re: Why can't they just protest in a way that's convenient for me? [Re: Enlil]
#26853485 - 07/30/20 12:46 PM (3 years, 6 months ago) |
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Ok, thanks for clearing that up. I just personally feel like they're dicks for doing it
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