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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. * 1
    #26852536 - 07/29/20 07:42 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hey friends. Been having troubles for some time now. I can make a detailed list about everything I'm doing if that helps, or just answer any questions one by one if folks want to ask me about my processes. Basically I've been seeing the same green take my tubs anywhere between 8 days of colonization to the end of the second flush, many go before the first flush though. I lose about half of my tubs conistently for a few years now. I have new cultures started from spores from different varieties that I'm hoping go better. I work with agar in a flowhood that's been tested with blank plates and jars and shows no troubles. My first generation of spawn A2G always looks clean. The second expansion sometimes shows a little wetspot but not always. I use CVG that I use to bucket tek but since having consistent problems I've gone to pastuerization but that didn't change anything. I know that's a waste of time but one will try anything after the problems I've had.. Surely I don't have clean spawn, or the myths about pathogenic spores in a home that's been cultivated in foolishly for too long are true. Either way please help me figure this out. I have tons of pics I've posted in random threads I've created and some in the general cultivation thread. I'm happy to upload any here or take new ones and write about any of my processes. I'll leave it there for now. Thanks guys, mush love


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852552 - 07/29/20 07:48 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Here's a recent plate of Texan multispore third transfer away from spores. I took some cuts out of it and let it keep growing.. 
Here's a jar of colonized spawn. Most of them look like this
Here's a bag of colonizing spawn
[ur=https://files.shroomery.org/files/20-31/588753346-IMG_1920.jpg][/url]
This is one of my tubs that contam'd before the first flush

And here's the same strain thats putting out a nice pinset and looks healthy so far. Same culture and the same treatment all the way through


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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InvisibleAnastomosis
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852556 - 07/29/20 07:50 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Are you drying your grain long enough before loading in jars?  How many burst grains do you have?
Spawn with bacteria will still produce crops, but the mycelium is definitely weaker and more prone to other nasties, like your green.


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852560 - 07/29/20 07:55 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'm using a flowhood I built. This

I make agar with 7.5 grams of malt extract and 10 grams of agar powder per 500mL of water. I do A2G into rye berries that have been soaked 6 to 8 hours, brought to a simmer until the middle is fully gelatinized, and then strained and spread out on drying racks until the grains are dry to the touch with a little bit of a whitish look to the surface before I load them into jars. Then I PC for 2 hours and let cool overnight and load directly into my flowhood from the PC the next day. I flame sterilize with a map gas propane torch that sits right at the edge of my flowhood. I wipe down the entire flow hood with alcohol and anything that gets brought inside of it then let it run for a while before I start doing transfers. I do all my work about a few inches in front of the filter..


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Anastomosis] * 1
    #26852567 - 07/29/20 07:59 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Anastomosis said:
Are you drying your grain long enough before loading in jars?  How many burst grains do you have?
Spawn with bacteria will still produce crops, but the mycelium is definitely weaker and more prone to other nasties, like your green.



I probably have about 10% burst grains if I were to guess, maybe a bit less. I find that if I soak longer before I cook than I get less burst grains however if I soak over 8 hours I worry about reproducing endospores as the grains are soaking... I dry the grains quite well I think. I've dried them more than what I described in the previous post and the mycelium doesn't colonize well, as if the grains lose too much moisture (that's like 10 or 12 hours drying). I let them sit on lizard cage screens propped up on jar rings with fans blowing over the grains for at least 4 hours before loading them into jars, sometimes 6 or 8 depending on how humid it is..


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852573 - 07/29/20 08:01 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I used to do oats but saw too much wet spot bacteria and went back to rye berries as I don't see any visible wet spot in any of my A2G jars. After doing one expansion G2G I see a little wet spot here and there, maybe 1 out of every few jars and just a small spot.. Good enough to spawn according to what I've read on this site. I never do any expansions beyond the one G2G because I've seen wet spot get worse at that point. My jars smell fine before I spawn them too, like a rich fungi smell with nothing else.


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852574 - 07/29/20 08:03 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I'm back to doing all jars for my spawn until I get these problems sorted out, I know bags will amplify any issues


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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InvisibleAnastomosis
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852586 - 07/29/20 08:11 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

10 percent is a lot.


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OfflineMycobro420
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Anastomosis] * 1
    #26852605 - 07/29/20 08:34 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Ok I skimmed threw most of the thread only problems I saw that could potentially cause problems would be that your flow hood has a non pourous surface witch could harbor contams in there crevices.or that you soak for 6 hrs.i use rye as well I soak mine for 17 hr with about a handful of gypsum. I do that to ensure that the endospores have long enough to germinate so they are easier to kill off in the PC cycle.how many times do you rinse your grain before soaking too

Edited by Mycobro420 (07/29/20 08:37 PM)

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InvisibleAnastomosis
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852612 - 07/29/20 08:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

If some tubs are good and some are not, the problem could be your technique. Some jars you do great. A few maybe you fuck up?  If mold spores are getting in at g2g, they may not show their ugly face until after spawning.


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Anastomosis] * 1
    #26852628 - 07/29/20 08:51 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Thanks guys. I've put several coats of clear coat on all the wood surfaces inside the flow hood. Ya know that's crazy about the soak time. I geeked out reading Bod and Blinding leaf talk back and forth on a long and scholarly thread about endospores in grains debating whether or not a long or short soak was better. And they seemed to come to the conclusion that it either didn't matter or that longer soak times like over 8 or 10 hours could cause endospores to reproduce canceling out the benefit of germinating some to kill them more efficiently. But when I started growing 4 or 5 years ago I always did 18 hour soaks with rye berries and got better results. Roger Rabbit talked about germinating the endospores to kill them more effectively but after reading Bod's long thread I figured that was old outdated info. Fuck me maybe that's it. I'll try a longer soak next round of grains.


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

Edited by Sherlock Shrooms (07/29/20 08:56 PM)

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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852633 - 07/29/20 08:54 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Good point about the hit or miss with some tubs making it and some not and maybe being determined by my sterile techinique slipping on some jars and not with others. That really fits. I thought after all this experience and trauma of losing stuff my technique was really good and I have been paying attention. But as everyone says you can never be careful enough. I'll slow down and make sure I move methodically and flame sterilize efficiently. Thanks guys. On a bright note I just went and checked on some tubs and no new contams today. Lots of ripping pinsets coming in! Praying the mean green doesn't show up and spoil my fun :awesomenod:


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852642 - 07/29/20 09:04 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Hopefully the longer grain soak time will help prevent burst grains too. At 8 hour soaks when bringing them up to a simmer I keep breaking grains open and by the time the grains are all fully gelatinized through the center I have 5 to 10% burst grains. I figured that was acceptable but maybe not? I just flipped to the grain prep section of Stamet's book GGMM. I'm going to reread the book and get back to basics here..


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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OfflineEl Chupacabra
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852667 - 07/29/20 09:23 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

:popcorn:

Just bookmarking
:musky:

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InvisibleAnastomosis
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms] * 1
    #26852685 - 07/29/20 09:40 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Make each jar count. If you use 4 jars in a tub and 1 out of 4 jars is fucked....
1 good jar is better than 100 not good jars.


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OfflineMycobro420
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: El Chupacabra] * 1
    #26852688 - 07/29/20 09:44 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I never have bursted grains if I do it's only a few an I probably boiled a tad to long.also are you sure your substrate is feild capacity and not over.if your sub is too wet it makes it easier for contams to take hold.what temps is your fruting room set at.and how low or high do the temps fluctuate threw out the day.

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OfflineCrackatoa
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Mycobro420] * 1
    #26852695 - 07/29/20 09:52 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

I have your same blues. I'm doing a couple different things right now. One thing though is when I do my G2G I do my shake and that's it. It takes a little longer to colonize but some jars colonize quickly and some colonize for the most part, those get trashed. I feel like doing it this way I catch that 1 bad jar out of 6 that would fuck up my tub. Here lately I've been using that jar to inoculate a 4 quart bag.  That's my current experiment, hope it helps some what.


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Mycobro420] * 1
    #26852714 - 07/29/20 10:07 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycobro420 said:
I never have bursted grains if I do it's only a few an I probably boiled a tad to long.also are you sure your substrate is feild capacity and not over.if your sub is too wet it makes it easier for contams to take hold.what temps is your fruting room set at.and how low or high do the temps fluctuate threw out the day.



Hopefully soaking longer gives me less burst grains. At 8 hour soaks then simmering the rye berries by the time the grains are fully gelatinized 5 to 10% burst. If I don't get the grains fully gelatinized then the myc doesn't colonize well, it moves slow and becomes wispy. As soon as the grains fully gelatinize I cut the heat and strain them immediately then spread them out to dry in front of fans for several hours turning them over often. I read Caps talk about field capacity a lot and I went down on my field capacity to where a kung fu grip just barely makes water appear between my fingers without running down and dripping, so I'm under field capacity according to the standard. My fruiting room stays between 68 and 70. I have a few thermometers in there to be sure I'm getting accurate readings. The thermometers are at the average height of tubs. As a side note I also protect my spawn jars in cleaned out tubs to reduce spore load on the filer discs.


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Crackatoa] * 1
    #26852719 - 07/29/20 10:14 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Crackatoa said:
I have your same blues. I'm doing a couple different things right now. One thing though is when I do my G2G I do my shake and that's it. It takes a little longer to colonize but some jars colonize quickly and some colonize for the most part, those get trashed. I feel like doing it this way I catch that 1 bad jar out of 6 that would fuck up my tub. Here lately I've been using that jar to inoculate a 4 quart bag.  That's my current experiment, hope it helps some what.



Damn dude sorry to hear about your troubles. When I do g2g I shake them in front of the flow hood after I've transferred all the jars and wrapped clingwrap around the rings and labeled them. I shake them away from the filter and out of the sterile work area but still in the generally clean area and then load them directly into cleaned out tubs to keep the jars and filter discs clean. I only give them the initial shake and let them fully colonize on their own after that. I never see a single one stall out. They look healthy. If there's an uncolonized grain or 2 on the top surface that dry out after full colonization I pick it out with a scalpel just before I mix it into the substrate and spawn the tub.


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Mycobro420] * 1
    #26852722 - 07/29/20 10:16 PM (3 years, 6 months ago)

Quote:

Mycobro420 said:
Ok I skimmed threw most of the thread only problems I saw that could potentially cause problems would be that your flow hood has a non pourous surface witch could harbor contams in there crevices.or that you soak for 6 hrs.i use rye as well I soak mine for 17 hr with about a handful of gypsum. I do that to ensure that the endospores have long enough to germinate so they are easier to kill off in the PC cycle.how many times do you rinse your grain before soaking too



I rinse the shizz out of my grains in hot water until the water in the bucket is clear upon filling and stirring. My grains never clump..


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."

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