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OfflineEl Chupacabra
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26852725 - 07/29/20 10:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Just taking a stab at it here
Do you vent your PC for 10 minutes or more?


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: El Chupacabra]
    #26852730 - 07/29/20 10:23 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yes I vent my PC for 20 minutes now. Keep it coming, any question is a good question. Surely I'm missing something..


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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OfflineMycobro420
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26852737 - 07/29/20 10:27 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Everything you said sounds good I like to set fruiting at 72 but 70-68 fine. Use gypsum wen u soak an soak longer. Your qt jar looks good. Agar is more tomentose than mine but you inoculate with spores.i usually clone with fresh fruits.alot less strains to deal with wen cloning from a fruit. I usually get rizomorphic of first dish.but I can say excatly how good your agar is cause I don't go spores to agar.check my gallery to see my agar.it looks ok in my opinion


Edited by Mycobro420 (07/29/20 10:29 PM)


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Mycobro420]
    #26852743 - 07/29/20 10:34 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mycobro420 said:
Everything you said sounds good I like to set fruiting at 72 but 70-68 fine. Use gypsum wen u soak an soak longer. Your qt jar looks good. Agar is more tomentose than mine but you inoculate with spores.i usually clone with fresh fruits.alot less strains to deal with wen cloning from a fruit. I usually get rizomorphic of first dish.but I can say excatly how good your agar is cause I don't go spores to agar.check my gallery to see my agar.it looks ok in my opinion



Your agar looks good man. Take a pic with it grown out covering the whole plate, sometimes if there's hidden bacteria or something it doesn't show until the plate is fully grown out in my experience. Like little rhizos lifting up indicating bacteria or weird fuzzy sections indicating hidden molds. But those plates look good where they are to me. I'm taking clones off this run as I have a bunch of multispore from different varieties coming in. Clones definitely come out more rhizomorphic. I'm looking forward to cloning some of the bigger fruits and running those next round.


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26852745 - 07/29/20 10:35 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I've read about people using gypsum in their grains but have never tried it as people often said it helps reduce clumping and I never get clumping. Does it serve some other purpose?


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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OfflineMycobro420
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26852749 - 07/29/20 10:39 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

It helps with clumping that's why I use it
For grain.but I also use it in my bulk substrate as well. Excatly why I read a thread from RR that said it's beneficial for both excatly why I'm not 100% sure. I know it increases the pH in substrates.but only a little


Edited by Mycobro420 (07/29/20 10:40 PM)


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Mycobro420]
    #26852753 - 07/29/20 10:41 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Cool yea I use it in my substrate. Maybe not enough though. Not that it has much to do with my contam problem but how much do you use in your substrate recipe?


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26852754 - 07/29/20 10:43 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I've been using 1 600-650g brick of coir, 1 quart of medium vermiculite, and an 1/8 cup of powdered gypsum per 64 quart mono. I wonder if the gypsum raises the PH or buffers the PH as in keeping it closer to neutral. Either way if that's true maybe upping my gypsum content will help out. I vaguely remember RR saying 3% was good. Is that right? If so I'm way under the recommended amount.


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


Edited by Sherlock Shrooms (07/29/20 10:50 PM)


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OfflineMycobro420
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26852757 - 07/29/20 10:45 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

How much water do you use. I use same amount of coir 650g but 2qts of verm fine grade and two handfulls or qt cup of gypsum


Edited by Mycobro420 (07/29/20 10:46 PM)


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OfflineMycobro420
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Mycobro420]
    #26852760 - 07/29/20 10:47 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Do you pasteurize the coir


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Offlineskullhuman
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Mycobro420]
    #26852764 - 07/29/20 10:56 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I think a lot of contamination problems in bulk subs are from improper pasteurization.  That's why I only pasteurize inside a big pot with the LID ON now so that the temperature inside the pot is uniform (none of that submerging jars and boiling them nonsense).  Once I get my core temps up, I keep them there for FOUR hours.  No more issues.


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Mycobro420]
    #26852766 - 07/29/20 10:58 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Yea I've been pasteurizing the coir. I did bucket tek in a cooler for a while but I was having so many problems that despite almost everyone saying it's a waste of time I started pasteurizing again. I read a thread where Van Hatton saw coir he bucket tek'd  and left in a bin without inoculating grow white mold in 2 days. The problem I see with bucket tek is that it's hard to get every single small chunk of coir broken up while it's piping hot to ensure that all the coir is hydrated and the mold spores or culture fragments are killed. JHOVA and another experienced grower chipped in and said they saw coir sitting in the bucket mold too. So I hydrate it with tap water, mix up the ingredients, load it into spawn bags, and stuff 8 of those bags (1 bag is 1 tub worth of sub) in a big 22 gallon stainless pot (crawfish cooker) with a strainer. The bags are in a strainer propped up on blocks of wood with water underneath. I ran a temp probe from the center of one of the bags through a hole I drilled in the lid, clamp the lid down and blast the heat until the core temp hits 108 then cut the heat. the temp rises to 145 and hovers there for an hour and then I unload all the bags into cleaned out tubs (1 bag per tub) to cool off or they'd sit there and hold temp forever with all that thermal mass. It sounds like a lot of work but I have the process streamlined pretty well.


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"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


Edited by Sherlock Shrooms (07/29/20 11:02 PM)


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26852770 - 07/29/20 11:00 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

My pasteurization is done with the lid tightly clamped down and is driven entirely by steam as none of the bags are touching water. You let it sit for 4 hours? Wouldn't that get into partial sterilization territory? I thought the standard was 140 to 160 degrees for 1 to 1.5 hours? I like to keep mine between 140 and 150 for 1 hour then unload so they cool quicker..


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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OfflineEl Chupacabra
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: skullhuman] * 1
    #26852773 - 07/29/20 11:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe but idk. Coir is very contam resistant whether you sterilize or pasteurize or even just simply hydrate it. I've seen it done with plenty of success as long as moisture content is good.
It is a super common thing to use in moist terrariums with shitty reptiles shitting all over it. If a tub contams then it almost MUST be bad spawn or maybe a foreign object in the coir IMO.
What about your lids.. What kind of filters? Have you tried different types of lids and/or filters over the years?


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Mycobro420]
    #26852774 - 07/29/20 11:07 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mycobro420 said:
How much water do you use. I use same amount of coir 650g but 2qts of verm fine grade and two handfulls or qt cup of gypsum



I find that regardless of the brand of coir I use 3.8x the weight of the coir (in grams) in mL of water and 160 mL of water per 1 quart of medium vermiculite gets me to just under field capacity. The coir bricks are always different weights so I don't like to use a set volume of water per brick of coir. A set volume of water by weight of the coir gets me consistent field capacity


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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Offlineskullhuman
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26852777 - 07/29/20 11:09 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sure two hours is sufficient, but yeah- I steam pasteurize as well to make sure temps are uniform and that every bit of substrate is kept in pasteurization range for at least an hour.  I found with the boiling method that temps throughout the jars were not consistent enough, and an hour was definitely not thorough. Most people are measuring core temps but I found the top of the jar to be the last to get up to temp.  So uniform, thorough steam pasteurization is now the ticket for me.


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: El Chupacabra]
    #26852780 - 07/29/20 11:13 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

El Chupacabra said:
Maybe but idk. Coir is very contam resistant whether you sterilize or pasteurize or even just simply hydrate it. I've seen it done with plenty of success as long as moisture content is good.
It is a super common thing to use in moist terrariums with shitty reptiles shitting all over it. If a tub contams then it almost MUST be bad spawn or maybe a foreign object in the coir IMO.
What about your lids.. What kind of filters? Have you tried different types of lids and/or filters over the years?



I know tons of folks do that no problem but there are reports of coir that has small amounts of mold in it as a brick, like people have seen white on the edge of the brick. Seems possible being that it comes from a humid environment and travels so far, and has low quality control, etc..  I figure hydrating it, breaking up every little chunk, and then pasteurizing it removes the variable for now. And if there are seeds in it or something nutritious then pasteurizing that helps as well. When things go better I'll go back to the bucket tek.

My filter discs are synthetic filter discs from FP and I have new ones in my lids. I replaced all of them to eliminate that variable too. I stick with synthetic filter discs as they seem to be the best choice. I don't want any variables ya know..


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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InvisibleAnastomosis
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Anastomosis]
    #26852788 - 07/29/20 11:19 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Anastomosis said:
If some tubs are good and some are not, the problem could be your technique.




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"120mph with a trailer full of dogs and a truck full of drug addicts."


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Anastomosis]
    #26852796 - 07/29/20 11:25 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Anastomosis said:
Quote:

Anastomosis said:
If some tubs are good and some are not, the problem could be your technique.






For sure. I'll definitely be paying closer attention with my sterile work. I appreciate the advice, and it almost fits. However I am a bit skeptical because I haven't seen a single jar or plate contam in well over a year, no BS not a single one. If my technique was bad, as it was when I started growing, then I'd see an occasional jar or plate get contam'd like I used to. No one's perfect but I'm damn careful, and if my technique was so bad that I was losing half of my tubs then I would definitely be seeing some contams in plates or jars sometimes. I can't even remember the last time I saw a plate or jar contam... I treat sterile work like I'm handling biological warfare that would wipe out all of humanity if I slip.


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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OfflineSherlock Shrooms
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Re: Please help me get this right, contamination blues.. [Re: Sherlock Shrooms]
    #26852799 - 07/29/20 11:29 PM (3 years, 5 months ago)

In the cultivation general discussion someone mentioned that I may be overcooking my grains converting starches to sugars and making them available to competitors upon spawning. He said it fucked him for a few years. I have been cooking my jars excessively for 2.5 hours at 18 psi. I recently went down to 2 hours at 16 psi. Hopefully that helps. In this thread some folks recommended I do longer soaks to germinate endospores in order to kill them more efficiently and get less burst grains when simmering. Will definitely be doing that next grain run too..


--------------------
"When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; And through the rivers, they shall not overflow you. When you walk through the fire, you shall not be burned, Nor shall the flame scorch you."


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