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Offlineendtimes
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Registered: 06/15/20
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: Nonagon Infinity]
    #26854608 - 07/31/20 01:24 AM (8 days, 20 hours ago)

That is my great hope too, that the situation can be dissolved without needing a body bag or a stretcher or an ambulance.

But real life is messy and while we like to think almost everyone can be reasoned with (counting myself among that), I have to give weight to the point that not everything can be talked out of. I doubt I could reason with extremists in the Middle East, or the worst of homophobes, etc. People strongly entrenched in their views don't usually move out of them. It breaks my heart because they were raised that way.

I do admire MLK Jr for what he did and it is something I aspire to. To meet hate with an iron will and have it shatter against it, to weather the slings and arrows of opposition. But what if there is no nonviolent solution?

As for violence being part of being human, that's kinda of messy. Part of it is yes and part of it is no.


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: endtimes] * 3
    #26854620 - 07/31/20 01:32 AM (8 days, 20 hours ago)

Quote:

endtimes said:
Its that I believe that all people have equal value




I don't believe that at all. People are not what they want to be, think they are, wish they were, or aspire to be. They are the sum of their actions, and some people's actions have no value or negative value.

The desire to remove the consequences of being wrong has made the world worse. It isn't loving when you let people act negatively and call it positivity so as not to offend anyone. Lies are negative, and the world lies to itself today believing it is being kind.

What it is doing is actually leaving people stuck where they are.

I care enough about people, and believe in them enough and in their ability to change, that I won't lie to them. I will hurt their feelings and lose them as friends or family, but I will not let them lead negative lives strictly because I didn't want to offend them.

If more people would teach consequences, fewer people would think of trying to kill others. I love people and want them to live, but I can't change the consequences of jumping off the cliff, and it is not the responsibility of the ground to move out of the way. Attacking another person is a hugely negative act, and can only produce negative results, but self defense is a positive action and can neutralize negativity and restore balance to a sickened world.

Consequences are reality. You should not lay down your life to make the world more of a lie and more negative. In fact, you have a responsibility not to do that.

We are batteries. We all have potential, but we are not all of equal value. If that is true, there is no reason to aspire to be more; you're already as good as anyone can be.


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OfflineInnerWisdom
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: endtimes] * 2
    #26854724 - 07/31/20 02:51 AM (8 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

endtimes said:
I wouldn’t have a wife and kid, not my thing



Makes sense :thumbup:


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OnlineBrian Jones
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: 1234go]
    #26854858 - 07/31/20 06:14 AM (8 days, 15 hours ago)

Quote:

1234go said:
Paw runs a cat shelter in Odessa TX.  He votes Trump, and works in the spice industry.  He also lets his stepdaughters boyfriend stay over for days at a time, put his feet on the table, and raid the fridge.




Other than the slight issue of voting Trump, I don't see a problem with any of that.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

Registered: 04/27/11
Posts: 3,603
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: endtimes] * 1
    #26854994 - 07/31/20 09:44 AM (8 days, 12 hours ago)

The thing is, your claim that you believe everyone is of equal value is not what you actually believe.  You actually believe that being non-violent is of superior value to people who use violence. 

I know not everyone is equal in value because there are people out there that are better than me.  There just are.  I'm far from perfect I've made hella mistakes and to think I'm somehow of equal value to people who do more for others and their community and have less character defects than me would be pompous and arrogant.  All people ought to be treated with human decency, but that doesn't mean all people have equal value. 

You honestly think a meth-smoking child rapist-murderer is of equal value to a someone that dedicates 100% of their time being of service to others in the community by building housing and mentoring youths away from gangs and criminality?  Sounds fake as fuck.

You sound brainwashed into eliminating yourself from existence while patting yourself on the back for doing so.

This thread seems like one of those "virtue signals" people talk about.


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: MrBlueYoMind]
    #26854997 - 07/31/20 09:46 AM (8 days, 12 hours ago)

Dont worry as I said in that situation I would not be doing it out of choice :ruggedwink:


--------------------
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Invisiblepsi
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: MrBlueYoMind] * 2
    #26855011 - 07/31/20 09:59 AM (8 days, 12 hours ago)

Personally I don't see it as placing different values on people's lives, but that nobody's life is so valuable that they should be allowed to do really terrible things unchecked. If there is no other option than to use potentially lethal force, that's regrettable, but the alternative is letting a greater evil continue.


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: psi] * 1
    #26855016 - 07/31/20 10:02 AM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

If someone is killing for no reason and will kill again and my ONLY option is to use my firearm then I will do so with zero regret.


--------------------
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Invisible1234go
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: Brian Jones]
    #26855021 - 07/31/20 10:05 AM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Brian Jones said:
Other than the slight issue of voting Trump, I don't see a problem with any of that.





The man rescues, and rehabilitates homeless kittens.  I wasn't really suggesting any "problems".

...but if you'd be okay with your daughters boyfriend laying around your house, and eating all your food....you've probably been that guy at one point or another.  Am I wrong?


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Offlineendtimes
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Registered: 06/15/20
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: Srirachi] * 1
    #26855023 - 07/31/20 10:06 AM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

I’m afraid I must strongly disagree with that point as well as that of potential.

The truth is that everyone has the same value, no one person is worth more than anyone else regardless of the actions they take. They might have more or less value to society or to people sure but in the truest, purest, “objective” sense all people are equal in value. Contrary to the moral adage you are not the sum of your actions. You’re aspirations of more are just you’re own conception of what that is, but that does not make it so.

Even negative and positive are from our own views of what we feel things ought to be or are. Lies are not negative but they do have impacts the same as anything else one does. There is no such thing as good or bad, just actions and consequences. What life is is about being able to live with the consequences of your actions. I think when I browsed this place I saw someone say that taxes aren’t mandatory but there is a consequence for not paying.

You are just as good as anyone else is and will ever be because all values don’t exist in true reality, at least according to Buddhism and a few other spiritualities I’ve studied


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: endtimes] * 1
    #26855028 - 07/31/20 10:08 AM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

Good for your books. Ideas are cool but reality is often a bit different. There are monsters in this world.


--------------------
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Invisiblepsi
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: spirit_shadow] * 2
    #26855047 - 07/31/20 10:16 AM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
If someone is killing for no reason and will kill again and my ONLY option is to use my firearm then I will do so with zero regret.





Regret can be a funny thing, doesn't necessarily line up with what you can logically rationalize.


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OfflineMrBlueYoMind
Don't do drugs (Without me)

Registered: 04/27/11
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: endtimes]
    #26855053 - 07/31/20 10:19 AM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

-5 is only equal to 5 when you are 0.  0 = nothing = ain't shit.  So anyone who thinks there is no bad or good since they are both equidistance from 0 point and it's only perspective which makes the behavior good or bad, well they ain't shit.  Objectively speaking, of course.

The only way every person can have equal value in the eyes of objectivity is if everyone has no value at all.  AKA 0.


Regret can definitely take shape if you have to injure someone, even in defense.  I think the regret of not stopping a bad person would be greater than the regret of stopping them.  :shrug:


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: psi] * 1
    #26855055 - 07/31/20 10:19 AM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

Fair enough. I feel in this moment that I would not have regret if that scenario, god forbid, ever happens.

Edit: ironically I kinda think like op where everyone's life is equal and would not find any pleasure in it even if it did save people. Nobody should have to die....BUT if there is ever a scenario that is HAS to be done then I suppose I am mentally preparing myself to try to not regret it.


--------------------
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Ban lotto


Edited by spirit_shadow (07/31/20 10:21 AM)


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: endtimes]
    #26855059 - 07/31/20 10:25 AM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

endtimes said:
I’m afraid I must strongly disagree with that point as well as that of potential.

The truth is that everyone has the same value, no one person is worth more than anyone else regardless of the actions they take. They might have more or less value to society or to people sure but in the truest, purest, “objective” sense all people are equal in value. Contrary to the moral adage you are not the sum of your actions. You’re aspirations of more are just you’re own conception of what that is, but that does not make it so.

Even negative and positive are from our own views of what we feel things ought to be or are. Lies are not negative but they do have impacts the same as anything else one does. There is no such thing as good or bad, just actions and consequences. What life is is about being able to live with the consequences of your actions. I think when I browsed this place I saw someone say that taxes aren’t mandatory but there is a consequence for not paying.

You are just as good as anyone else is and will ever be because all values don’t exist in true reality, at least according to Buddhism and a few other spiritualities I’ve studied




I'll have to accept that you aren't convinced by my statements and leave it at that. I wholeheartedly disagree, but I appreciate you explaining how our views differ. I am pleased that your perspective comes from a place of love and not hate. On that at least, we have harmony.


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OfflineAsanteA
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: Srirachi]
    #26855110 - 07/31/20 10:57 AM (8 days, 11 hours ago)

I have strong Faith. I'm highly conscientious. I talk with God as a two way street.

I know that even if a nuclear weapon would vaporize me right now in mid-sentence, I would be eternally safe in the Divine Universe's embrace.

That goes for my attacker too. Me with my full 375 lbs jumping up and down on his chest would cut this life short, but through purgantor he'll shoot up to Heaven to become One with Everything, complete loss of all time, and from there on he would eternally reincarnate. His eternal soul woud not be harmed if I'd send him Home.

Asking God, he says: "In your particular case there won't be a need for lethal self defense, but humans are a species of hominid and as such, there are situations in which lethal force is both warranted and justified. To not, in such a case, would be wrong."

We know how God feels about breaking eggs in the process of making an omelet:





All our anguish in this comes in not understanding how it really is, and having no faith in the Prime Mover, the one who moves all of us across this.. educational ride.. that stretches out to all eternity.




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Invisiblepsi
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: spirit_shadow] * 1
    #26855126 - 07/31/20 11:05 AM (8 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
Fair enough. I feel in this moment that I would not have regret if that scenario, god forbid, ever happens.

Edit: ironically I kinda think like op where everyone's life is equal and would not find any pleasure in it even if it did save people. Nobody should have to die....BUT if there is ever a scenario that is HAS to be done then I suppose I am mentally preparing myself to try to not regret it.




Posted this earlier. Reading WakeboardrB's last thread again I think it's a strong possibility he did commit suicide. That thread is not one of the Pub's finer moments. Not long before that (the first thread) he had killed someone in self-defense.

Quote:

psi said:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16314657

The last thread he made was "When is it time to end it". :uhoh:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16411186




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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: psi] * 1
    #26855132 - 07/31/20 11:12 AM (8 days, 10 hours ago)

Damn :feelssadman:


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InvisibleSrirachi
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: Asante]
    #26855174 - 07/31/20 11:40 AM (8 days, 10 hours ago)

We have very opposite views of what and who God is, and yet there's a tremendous amount of harmony in what we believe. Interesting!


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OfflinetheRealrollforever
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Re: When it comes to defending yourself [Re: Srirachi] * 3
    #26855182 - 07/31/20 11:45 AM (8 days, 10 hours ago)

Everyone I know who has taken a life says it will weigh super heavy on your conscience even if it’s 100 percent justified self defense.  If it doesn’t congrats, but that’d make me a little wary of you personally.


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