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OfflineVylie
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The right time to harvest
    #26848787 - 07/27/20 10:41 PM (17 days, 3 hours ago)

If you were an alien praying mantis robot, would you harvest humanity now, or would you wait a bit more, or is it already late?


--------------------
Modern Science: OMG, the Universe is conscious!
Magic Mushroom: And who isn’t?
DMT: What universe?


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OnlineThe Blind Ass
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Vylie]
    #26848794 - 07/27/20 10:45 PM (17 days, 3 hours ago)



We’re ready.


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps - or -  give me death caps


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Vylie]
    #26849215 - 07/28/20 05:31 AM (16 days, 20 hours ago)

Depending on your 'worldview' you might sacrifice everything for the benefit of your team or you might cultivate variety as a means of further avenues of distraction. Aliens prefer the latter because they do not have the human ego impulse.


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OfflineVylie
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26849244 - 07/28/20 06:28 AM (16 days, 19 hours ago)

Genesis 9:7

"And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; swarm in the earth, and multiply therein."

Why would God say that?

Why would God need people in the first place?

The God people who read the Bible believe in doesn’t need people. Okay, but why not create a few people for fun?

A hundred would be enough. Well, two people would be enough. (Or two too many). But let's say there is a hundred. You can still remember almost everyone’s name, most of the time.

Eight billion makes little sense. At least, it does in the God-human relationship context.

Is there a context where it makes more? Let me think. What do I say when I grew mushrooms? I tell them, "Multiply, populate the substrate, be fruitful!"

Sounds familiar? Why do I say it?

Because I want to eat them.


--------------------
Modern Science: OMG, the Universe is conscious!
Magic Mushroom: And who isn’t?
DMT: What universe?


Edited by Vylie (07/28/20 06:36 AM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26849246 - 07/28/20 06:31 AM (16 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
We’re ready.




She looks beautiful, hungry, and intelligent.

That’s a scary combination.


--------------------
Modern Science: OMG, the Universe is conscious!
Magic Mushroom: And who isn’t?
DMT: What universe?


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Vylie]
    #26849252 - 07/28/20 06:46 AM (16 days, 19 hours ago)

Quote:

Vylie said:
Genesis 9:7

"And you, be ye fruitful, and multiply; swarm in the earth, and multiply therein."

Why would God say that?

Why would God need people in the first place?

The God people who read the Bible believe in doesn’t need people. Okay, but why not create a few people for fun?

A hundred would be enough. Well, two people would be enough. (Or two too many). But let's say there is a hundred. You can still remember almost everyone’s name, most of the time.

Eight billion makes little sense. At least, it does in the God-human relationship context.

Is there a context where it makes more? Let me think. What do I say when I grew mushrooms? I tell them, "Multiply, populate the substrate, be fruitful!"

Sounds familiar? Why do I say it?

Oh yeah. I say it because I want to eat them.




In God's cultivation of variety should I be surprised at reruns of David vs. a brood of vipers because God is not human and people are selfish?


Edited by Buster_Brown (07/28/20 07:03 AM)


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OfflineVylie
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26849265 - 07/28/20 07:08 AM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
In God's cultivation of variety should I be surprised at reruns of David vs. a brood of vipers?




There won’t be reruns. One time in this world is more than enough.

Those who are funny or interesting should stop being addicted to oxygen as they might be brought back into existence in a reality without air.


--------------------
Modern Science: OMG, the Universe is conscious!
Magic Mushroom: And who isn’t?
DMT: What universe?


Edited by Vylie (07/28/20 07:16 AM)


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OfflineBuster_Brown
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Vylie]
    #26849271 - 07/28/20 07:19 AM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

I don't know the point of having the Hadron Collider if the origins of the Universe are evidenced daily.


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Vylie]
    #26849275 - 07/28/20 07:22 AM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

Would the host ever have the intelligence to realise?
Would the controller ever let the host know?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: pineninja]
    #26849285 - 07/28/20 07:32 AM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

the mantids don't know any better than us

harvest this!


--------------------


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26849287 - 07/28/20 07:35 AM (16 days, 18 hours ago)

Whos scoring?


--------------------
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OfflineVylie
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Buster_Brown]
    #26849305 - 07/28/20 08:09 AM (16 days, 17 hours ago)

Quote:

Buster_Brown said:
I don’t know the point of having the Hadron Collider if the origins of the Universe are evidenced daily.




There is no point in it. I’m not sure anymore that it exists in the first place. It seems absurd that there would be eight billion people in this reality, including thousands of scientists if we consider:

1. Based on the relativity theory, the energy of light should be either zero or not calculable.

If the photon at rest has no mass, then its kinetic energy at the speed of light is also zero. Then we are talking about something that has no mass and no energy. If its mass at rest is not zero, then it shouldn’t be able to reach the speed of light if the relativity theory were correct.

2. Based on the redshift, the Universe is expanding faster than the speed of light.

Let’s ignore that the idea already violates the conservation of energy. Let’s ignore that the doppler effect wasn’t (couldn’t be) proven for light in a laboratory.

How could the stars move away from us faster than the speed of light?

Oh, wait! They don’t. Science says they don’t move, but the space-time is expanding like the bread on the oven. So cool.

So, if the stars are not moving away from us, then why do they exhibit the redshift?

What kind of expansion is that which doesn’t behave as expansion would (atoms would grow), but it acts like moving would (redshift, atoms don’t grow), yet it’s not moving?

3. Based on the expansion speed of the Universe, many of the stars should appear at nearly the opposite side of the sky compared to where they are, and they should seem to travel backward in time.

If the expansion is faster than the speed of the light, their light would never reach Earth. However, we would catch up with the light these stars emitted in the past. As we would be catch up up the light from an earlier and earlier moment, the supernovas should collapse back into stars.

4. The materialistic explanation of life is against the laws of chemistry.

On a planet that started as a melt rock, the possible chemical reactions already happened. From that point, one would need to put the matter into a higher energy level and make it stay like that. It won’t happen by itself.

From all living creatures on Earth, only the green plants can do that.

Life on Earth couldn’t have started with anything else. And it didn’t start with green plants.

5. The evolution of languages

It’s unreasonable to believe that when most people were farmers or hunters, the languages were born with so many rules and special cases that people today can’t learn in the school. The Chinese language is the best example. Today, people simplify even English.

6. Buddhism

Although there are thousands of schools of Buddhism, we can agree about the essence of its teaching.

I. You don’t exist.
II. Desire is the source of all suffering.

Now tell me, why would Buddha, or anyone who understood Buddhism, teach you Buddhism? Why would a Buddhist talk to you or answer any of your questions? It would reinforce their wrong belief that either they or you exist. Why would they desire such a delusion?

7. AI

It has been proven for decades that algorithmic computers (Turing machines) cannot run general AI (strong AI). Yet Google, Facebook, Elon Musk, and almost everyone talks about the rise of the AI. Do all these people have zero understanding of mathematics and programming?

***

I could go on.

The problem isn’t that science is “wrong,” or it’s “not there yet”.

The fact is that science is fucked up from the core in one hundred percent. It couldn’t be more obvious how silly it is. Yet no one will tell you that “science is completely screwed up. It’s a disaster. But that’s what we have now”.

It would be okay to say it. It’s not what they say.

They say, “we are going somewhere”. And they don’t mean that “somewhere” is in the opposite direction than the answers.

I’m not saying that Einstein and Stephen Hawking were stupid.

They couldn’t be.

Most likely they didn’t exist.


--------------------
Modern Science: OMG, the Universe is conscious!
Magic Mushroom: And who isn’t?
DMT: What universe?


Edited by Vylie (07/28/20 08:18 AM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Vylie] * 1
    #26849593 - 07/28/20 11:50 AM (16 days, 14 hours ago)

If I were a technologically advanced alien I would have no need for harvesting humanity.

I don't believe in God so I perceive such ideas as being of the writer. People want to thrive. More seems better.

As far as I know photons always travel at the speed of light. An expanding universe doesn't violate the conservation of energy, nor do stars move away from an observer at the speed of light even though the universe is apparently expanding faster than the speed of light. Think about drawing two dots close together almost touching on a rubber band. You stretch the band a foot (expansion at X rate of speed). The dots barely moved and did not travel at X rate of speed. No part of the rubber band moved a foot relative to it's neighbors. One may suggest that a single dot on one end of the band did move a foot, but that's only in the context of a medium. The universe may not exist in a medium. It is the medium.

I don't think anyone understands how life actually starts so it's premature to suggest it's against the laws of chemistry.

Language can evolve and devolve.

Buddhism describes the self as an idea. It is just an idea, in the same way the thought of a broom is not a broom. There are actually brooms to be found, but no selves. We seem to exist, but not in the way we think we exist. Form is real but transitory. Nothing permanent or eternal except for principles. Desire can never be completely extinguished, but suffering is neither good nor bad. There are course corrections necessary to produce the most harmony.

Those who want to advance AI are looking for novelty.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


“Everyone's path is different, and that is fine. We either sit or walk.”


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Rahz]
    #26849871 - 07/28/20 02:41 PM (16 days, 11 hours ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
....Buddhism describes the self as an idea. It is just an idea, in the same way the thought of a broom is not a broom. There are actually brooms to be found, but no selves. We seem to exist, but not in the way we think we exist. Form is real but transitory. Nothing permanent or eternal except for principles. Desire can never be completely extinguished, but suffering is neither good nor bad. .......




Another analogy might be that the way the star constellations appear to us on earth is purely arbitrary. In other places (planets or galaxies) the sky patterns will seem completely different.

The feeling of being a self is as real as any of our other distorted perceptions. We don't see ultraviolet, when someone walks away from us they aren't really getting smaller, etc. Everything we think is real, is a distortion, - nothing is solid.
But buddhism does not take a philosophical position that there is 'no self', that needs to be defended, against other views, rather it speaks of 'non-self', and that; as Rahz says, the problem is that identification arises with the firm conviction that we are, autonomous, unified, separate, and stable. 
Instead all phenomenon, are said to, occur due to endless, inter-related, causes and conditions, and not due to any separate entities anywhere.
A social conventional self that arises in a social context is acknowledged. This is referred to as 'relative truth' in some Buddhist writings.


--------------------
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.” or  “Science advances one funeral at a time.”
― Max Planck

"The situation is hopeless, but not serious."

"Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend,
inside of a dog its too dark to read."


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OfflineVylie
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Rahz]
    #26849902 - 07/28/20 03:02 PM (16 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
If I were a technologically advanced alien I would have no need for harvesting humanity.




You could use them as food or you could use their collective consciousness like a computer.

Quote:

Rahz said:
People want to thrive. More seems better.




True.

Quote:

Rahz said:
As far as I know photons always travel at the speed of light.




It doesn’t change the fact the special relativity cannot be applied to them. The theory is based on a hypothesis about light. If it cannot be applied to light, then what can it be applied to?

The constant speed of the light is a hypothesis.

Quote:

Rahz said:
An expanding universe doesn't violate the conservation of energy,




If it expands at the same speed, it violates that law due to the potential energy. It is working against gravity. It should slow down just like you slow down after you jump. If you exceed the escape velocity, you will still slow down.

If it expands at an increasing speed, it also violates that law due to the increasing kinetic energy of the objects.

Quote:

Rahz said:
nor do stars move away from an observer at the speed of light even though the universe is apparently expanding faster than the speed of light. Think about drawing two dots close together almost touching on a rubber band. You stretch the band a foot (expansion at X rate of speed). The dots barely moved and did not travel at X rate of speed. No part of the rubber band moved a foot relative to it's neighbors.




Yes, they moved, compared to the neighbors otherwise it wouldn’t grow. It’s also true about any part of the rubber band (except for the theoretical zero-sized "points") that they grow and change their shape. If you were living in that rubber band, your body would grow.

Quote:

Rahz said:
One may suggest that a single dot on one end of the band did move a foot, but that's only in the context of a medium. The universe may not exist in a medium. It is the medium.




So, if the parts didn’t move compared to each other, then why is there a redshift?

Quote:

Rahz said:
I don't think anyone understands how life actually starts so it's premature to suggest it's against the laws of chemistry.




Just because you don’t understand how something started, you may still know how it didn’t start. If it started in the first place.

Quote:

Rahz said:
Language can evolve and devolve.




This is a general statement. Anyone can say it about anything. "Santa Claus may or may not exist". "It will either happen or not".

Do you have an example of a language getting more complex?

Quote:

Rahz said:
Buddhism describes the self as an idea. It is just an idea, in the same way the thought of a broom is not a broom. There are actually brooms to be found, but no selves. [...] Desire can never be completely extinguished, but suffering is neither good nor bad.




It’s interesting but it doesn’t explain why would a Buddhist teach others to Buddhism if there are no selves or "others".

Quote:

Rahz said:
Those who want to advance AI are looking for novelty.




One has a better chance to advance something if one has a basic understanding of it. Understanding that Turing machines won’t make up an AI provides one with a better shot to create AI (in another way).


--------------------
Modern Science: OMG, the Universe is conscious!
Magic Mushroom: And who isn’t?
DMT: What universe?


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OfflineVylie
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: laughingdog]
    #26849920 - 07/28/20 03:14 PM (16 days, 10 hours ago)

Quote:

laughingdog said:
When someone walks away from us they aren't really getting smaller, etc.




How do you know that? If, for example, you are living in a simulation, you are alone, and everything you see is displayed for you on some kind of screen, then they indeed get smaller.

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Everything we think is real, is a distortion, - nothing is solid.




I may almost agree but my question wasn’t how the world is. My question was, "Why would I believe that there are eight billion people on the planet including ten thousand of scientists yet no one seems to notice that science is wrong from its core?"

Quote:

laughingdog said:
Instead all phenomenon, are said to, occur due to endless, inter-related, causes and conditions, and not due to any separate entities anywhere.




Then tell me, why almost anyone (likely you too) believe they have a free will? The idea of free will (as it is understood by most people) is incompatible with every well-known belief system (religions, science).

Quote:

laughingdog said:
A social conventional self that arises in a social context is acknowledged. This is referred to as 'relative truth' in some Buddhist writings.




It reminds me of when Buddha said something like "There is no soul but let’s not tell this to people because they will go all-in criminals".

When social conventions blur the insight, a sane mind wants to cry or walk away.


--------------------
Modern Science: OMG, the Universe is conscious!
Magic Mushroom: And who isn’t?
DMT: What universe?


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OnlineThe Blind Ass
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: Vylie]
    #26849973 - 07/28/20 03:45 PM (16 days, 10 hours ago)

You misunderstand (or haven’t actually read any suttas on) the doctrine of an annata, annica, & ducca - in lieu of the doctrine of interdependent origination they are meaningless.

For 1) The doctrine of not-self shouldn’t be taken at face value, it’s utilized as teaching for correcting wrong view.

Not no self , but not-self.  It’s corrective in a similar way to how lucid dreaming is corrective to the way in which we perceive characters in a dream as existing in and of themselves and independent - which intellectually we know to be false, because they are like hallucinations fabricated by the brain, they are dependent upon the brain.  However, In lucid dream we know it to be fabricated/not really real whilst experiencing it - not just after the fact (after waking from said dream).
That brain is dependent upon what it is dependent upon and so forth and so on x ad infinity -  demonstrating how all things are inextricably linked / cause & effect. 

Wrong view is like believing the shadows of an elephant on the wall cast in part by the fire’s light off an object - to be real.  While, right view is like knowing & seeing how the circumstantiality of the situation (and the aggregates composing phenom) give rise to the perception of it as something it is not.

Doctrine of not-self is also like a counter balance weight for our propensity to believe the opposite is true.  Where as one sees hair as theirs - when it falls out and decomposes and it’s building blocks gets reabsorbed into our surrounding environments - do we go chasing each aggregate because it’s ours?  No.  And you don’t see people wanting their excrement back because it came from the body do you? 
A similar notion can be applied to mental phenomena.

It’s a skillful way & means of developing an appropriate view about the nature of phenomena - in such a way so as to release us from a fictive world premised on ignorance & delusion - which due to being premised on those things, causes unruly suffering. 
There’s my poor attempt to explain some of it.

And
Intellectually knowing is one thing, experientially knowing is another. 


--------------------
Give me Liberty caps - or -  give me death caps


Edited by The Blind Ass (07/28/20 04:14 PM)


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26850040 - 07/28/20 04:29 PM (16 days, 9 hours ago)

they are as garbled to us as dependent origination.
In our culture we want some good facts and modelling that can be performed by a computer.
We are getting both more fussy and more stupid.
this is a great time to harvest.


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OnlineThe Blind Ass
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: redgreenvines]
    #26850064 - 07/28/20 04:42 PM (16 days, 9 hours ago)

My body is ready for the great harvest

:feelsgoatman:


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Give me Liberty caps - or -  give me death caps


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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: The right time to harvest [Re: The Blind Ass]
    #26850070 - 07/28/20 04:49 PM (16 days, 9 hours ago)

aft
Quote:

The Blind Ass said:
My body is ready for the great harvest




after all that baloney about self, including stealing from Plato

you now have a body!?!?

wonderful


Edited by laughingdog (07/28/20 04:50 PM)


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General Interest >> Philosophy, Sociology & Psychology

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